Uk Military Definition Of Aircrew

[Phoney Tony]

Ladies,Gents,

Where can I find the UK military definition of aircrew.

I am interested in the status of the chaps who 'Fly'/ operate our UAVs etc.

[Flight Detent]

It's probably the same as the RAAF...they are regarded as General Duties officers...that fly airplanes!

At least that's the way I remember it.

Cheers...FD...:hmm:

[Chris Kebab]

As I recall it from my (extremely rare) forays into 553 the MOD can have whoever it likes flying any of its aircraft/UAVs so long as they are approriately trained and authorised. Same applies to the guy who is the Aircraft Commander who need not be a/the pilot.

[davejb]

Regarding aircraft captains -
There was an entry in a line book, 120 Sqn's I think, about an army officer (Major?) from an armoured outfit whose comment on pilot captains ran along the lines of:

'Christ! I wouldn't let one of my drivers command a tank.'

(Apologies to all my past pilot captains <g>)

[TheInquisitor]

All RAF UAVs (well, our ONLY UAV for now!) are operated by fully qualified, trained and experienced aircrew.

Phoney Tony, why did you put 'fly' in quotations? Reaper is flown and operated in exactly the same way as any other manned CAS / ISR type...it's just that the control runs are a little longer...

[Phoney Tony]

Not really bothered about the who does what and how debate....I am just after a formal definition of 'aircrew' from an authoritative source, if there is one. If not there should be.

[airborne_artist]

I am just after a formal definition of 'aircrew' from an authoritative source, if there is one. If not there should be

Why is it so important?

[Prop-Ed]

Did some extensive digging around and came up with one for you.

aircrew 1. n. aircraft's company. 2. n. gang. 3. n. The term everyone in the military aspires to be referred!


Hope that helps

[Chris Kebab]

You come across as a tad touchy if I may say so Tony.

Point I was making (obviously badly) is that technically anybody can fly a MOD aircraft/UAV if approriately trained and auth'ed. You do not need to be called "aircrew", although most of the military terms such guys who do it professionally as such. If its UAVs that bug you pop out East, several non "aircrew" Army types flying systems quite successfully there from what i've seen. And yes - I have and i'm not Army either.

So come on - as AA asked, why is it important? And why should there be a definition?

[Phoney Tony]

Sorry if my response appeared touchy.

I would be amazed if there is not a definition somewhere. There must be a measure against which the bean counters can make an assessment. As has been pointed out anyone authorized and trained can operate MoD systems but at what point does the operator become aircrew and as such attract the addition pay, attention from the medics etc.

I am only interested in terms of bottoming out the issue. Someone must have made a decision for the E3 fleet (FC and AT chaps). Again not interested in the arguments .....merely looking for the facts!

[izod tester]

Well, before the PFI Skynet 5 contract, the guys who flew the most expensive aerospace vehicles in the UK inventory were Engineers. Spacecraft Operations Officers at Oakhanger.

[topgas]

How about "being in receipt of flying pay"?

[Mr Grim]

....and as such attract the addition pay, attention from the medics etc.


If that is the question you are seeking an answer to then the answer is that the Predator/Reaper crews are aircrew.

[exscribbler]

If F/O Wales were to train to fly a UAV, would he get some wings to wear? Would they be RN wings on his Navy uniform and RAF wings on his...

Oh, b*gger it.

[Big Unit Specialist]

I have an image that may add to the definition of aircrew but so far using Photobucket I have only been able to post the underlined link in my reply rather than the image itself. Can anyone educate me as to how to fix this?

[cliffnemo]

Think when you have underlined link on screen, click preview at bottom. It is to the right of submit reply. You should see your piccy as it will appear on your thread.

[TommyGun]

This is part of an article posted in the News section on the RAF website specific to the Reaper UAV:

The Reaper aircraft are based in Afghanistan but are remotely controlled by satellite link from the USA. The Officer Commanding 39Sqn, Wg Cdr Andy Jeffrey, described his Squadron’s role: “Our mission is to provide persistent ISTAR, and where required offensive support to UK and Coalition forces involved in Operations.” He added more succinctly: “We are here to make a difference and save lives.”

Although it’s an RAF Squadron, 39Sqn is comprised of personnel from all three UK services; RAF, Royal Navy and the Army. The mix of different service personnel is seen by Wg Cdr Jeffrey as very much a key asset: ”To have an army soldier or Royal Marine who’s had ‘boots on the ground’ in Afghanistan [as part of the Squadron] is absolutely fantastic”.

During a mission the Reaper is controlled by a pilot and a sensor-operator both of whom are experienced aircrew. In addition, a mission coordinator present in the ground station alongside the aircrew is often an experienced soldier or Royal Marine.

Although operating from a purpose built ground station thousands of miles from where the Reaper is actually operating, Wg Cdr Jeffrey was keen to acknowledge the close bond between his Reaper crews and the troops on the ground on operations: “You are in that fight, you are listening to the guy on the ground, on that radio, and who’s taking incoming fire.” He added, “It comes back to people, of saving lives and making a difference, and we are doing that.”

Full article: http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive.cfm?storyid=5DC13BC6-1143-EC82-2E885837D31A0610

I believe Reaper pilots are experienced aircrew, as a colleague of mine has a cousin who is a Hercules pilot who is currently based in Nevada operating Reaper.

[Baskitt Kase]

But the same is not true for the predator...I am aware of at least 1 int guy with >1000 hrs of predator time.

[GalleyTeapot]

"It's probably the same as the RAAF...they are regarded as General Duties officers...that fly airplanes!"

Not all aircrew are officer types, don't forget we have the Non-Commissioned Aircrew that fly in just about anything the RAF has that isn't fast and pointy, and there are even some who fly as pilots assistants on Dominie.

[Black Labradors MaTE]

Where can I find the UK military definition of aircrew.

I am interested in the status of the chaps who 'Fly'/ operate our UAVs etc.

They wear flying suits so they must be aircrew!!!

There again so do stewards/movers/aeromeds and I have even seen a portly copper in a grow bag!

[Big Unit Specialist]

A Fighter Pilot?

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn249/stubal4/Pilot2.jpg
:}

[Two's in]

Simple. If a Low Level fuel caption on a rainy dark night combined with a degree of geographic uncertainty cause you involuntary sphincter activity, you are definitely aircrew.

[TheInquisitor]

But the same is not true for the predator...I am aware of at least 1 int guy with >1000 hrs of predator time.

True, but bear in mind that our guys on MQ-1 are embedded with the Americans flying American aircraft under their system - they tend to have much younger, less-experienced non-aircrew guys in the RHS as sensor operators, hence our Int guys with Pred time. However, all MQ-1 (and MQ-9) pilots are qualified and experienced aircrew. I say "Aircrew" as opposed to "Pilots", as at least a couple of the US 'Pilots' are in fact Navigators by trade! They allow experienced non-pilot aircrew who hold civvy pilot licences (and therefore have proven poling ability and experience) to fly MQ-1 / 9. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there are rigourous minimum experience / ability requirements for the above!

[Ali Qadoo]

If memory serves me correctly, the Akrotiri nurses' definition went something along the lines of, "Big watch, small willy, can't dance."

[J.A.F.O.]

If memory serves me correctly, the Akrotiri nurses' definition went something along the lines of, "Big watch, small willy, can't dance."

"You aircrew all same. Big ticker, small pricker, pay by cheque."

Now we're getting close to a definition.

[Poacher On The Turn]

Phoney,

If memory serves me right, you should find the definition you're after in our friendly JSP series. If you dust-off 550 it provides a definition along the lines of '...any person involved in the operation of an aircraft..' or something similar. I remember having to dig it out regarding AAC rearcrew....but that's another thread.:uhoh:

[Magic Mushroom]

As an aside, very many congratulations to the first RAF and Army recipients of the Imagery Analyst 'IA' brevets at RAF Waddington yesterday destined for service with 5 Sqn.

Regards,
MM

[Phoney Tony]

POTT,

TVM. Suspected that the 550 would be a good source.