View Full Version : Maybe the End of Tax Free Sector Pay in UK?

10th Jun 2008, 02:14
So the UK Inland Revenue are conducting an in-depth review in relation to tax free sector pay in the Aviation industry. The previous arrangements agreed before are under review.

So Do you reckon in the current climate your airline will take the hit without passing it onto you ?

10th Jun 2008, 05:34
You have got to be joking!! Companies already say YOUR taxation level is none of their business......

10th Jun 2008, 06:16
Both guns blazing with a tidbit title that doesn't bear any resemblance to the truth :rolleyes:

The review is of the PERSONAL taxation level as applied to expenses paid to both flight crew and cabin crew whilst down route. Currently the HMRC taxes down route subsidies at 18% as this money is to be spent in foreign countries for food, drinks, taxis etc.

It has been reviewed many times before and many airlines have had to do it at the INDIVIDUAL level. Nothing whatsoever to do with the airline 'taking a hit'.

Good journolistic title though :mad:

10th Jun 2008, 09:00
The IR are currently 'investigating' our airline and have requested receipts for our expenses, but over a ludicrously short period, during which we were incredibly disrupted, so keeping receipts and going out for meals was the last thing on most peoples mind.
No-one ever said the revenue had to be fair though!

I understand that under That evil, evil man in no11 and now no10, the revenune have been tasked with stealing as much cash as possilbe from us all, but this one i cannot understand, as the net effect to the revenue is not likely to change that much - either they give us a blanket tax free amount for allowances or they deal with 10,000 tax returns at the end of the year, and give us a tax rebate then. I thought the whole point of the current agreement was to reach a pragmatic arrangement to save everyone the aggro.

Of course it could also be a piece of lefty bullpoo - why should we get allowances when all the teachers, civil servants, mp's, police etc don't? oh wait, they do -they all get huge tax free benefits in kind.
Now I'm confused! :hmm:

10th Jun 2008, 09:52
tax free sector pay and allowances will surely go for those crews operating in the short haul quick turnaround multiple sectors.

If you have a twenty minute turn around how can you use your allowances.

Make no mistake they are looking at all forms of raining revenue. Concession arrangements were looked at in other industries. Do car dealers receive a discount on a new car? Any difference when an standby seat remains unsold and therefore has no commercial value.

Mungo Man
10th Jun 2008, 10:29
If you have a twenty minute turn around how can you use your allowances.

You just buy a heap of food on the way to the airport and eat it when you can during the day.

10th Jun 2008, 10:37
I still remember only a few years ago, when Gordon Brown stood up in Question time and his response to a question regarding pilots and traininf was that we are in an elitest profession and do not need any rebates in taxes or training costs.

Right Way Up
10th Jun 2008, 10:44
that we are in an elitest profession

In hindsight I probably should have claimed for expenses instead! :ok:

10th Jun 2008, 11:33
This subject has reared it's ugly head with monotonous regularity over the last 30 years or more.
Many years ago, when Pontius was my captain, each individual kept a record of each flight. To include such details as the destination, the date and times we took off, left the UK, landed, took off, re-entered the UK and then landed etc.
Every April, 8,000 or so individuals then sent in their Tax returns and 8,000 claims were processed, resulting in a refund every year of several hundred pounds.
The IR, urged by some bean counters in their midst, realised that this was a very inefficient way of dealing with the subject of tax on flight pay/allowances. The current blanket, one size fits all, system was adopted some years ago and if reinventing the wheel is the purpose of the exercise then I can't see any great changes coming about.
If they arbitrarily lower the threshold, so raising the tax burden, then we are all within our rights to submit an individual tax return, every year, for as long as you remain working. When the now 10,000 claims hit the IR desks, with only a couple of clerks to deal with the processing, it won't be long before they revert to the present system.
If we do have to revert to the laborious system outlined above, believe me, it is time consuming and tedious but in the long run, fairer to the individual.

10th Jun 2008, 12:55
Reference post number 6, you have to spend it between report time and off duty, so buying on the way to work won't work, unless you're late!

Beavis and Butthead
10th Jun 2008, 18:14
we are in an elitest profession and do not need any rebates in taxes or training costs.

Ahh yes ... his great comment to people busting their financial back to learn to fly planes for his faltering economy. The days are surely numbered on tax free flight allowances. :mad:

speed freek
10th Jun 2008, 22:42
Is it just me or is Labour going out if it's way to pi$$ off as many people as possible? Bit like next year's new road tax system. What's next? Probably get taxed by the number of times we flush the toilet per day. Better lay off the curry! :}

11th Jun 2008, 19:10
I have a few friends already suggesting this WILL happen (from their Birdseed Airways point of view)

Yet another stealth tax. Why change it now... The aviation industry is already showing signs of a slowdown due to the 'fuel' costs - another conspiracy for another thread for another time... As well as a host of other issues.

Peolpe will just not want to become cabincrew. The money isnt all that great in general, considering unsociable hours, time away from home and possible health risks from continual flying over the years...

What next... I dread to think

11th Jun 2008, 21:20
Why again is this happening??? Because some dic:mad:head who just got a promotion due to numerous years of a$$ kissing wants to kiss some more a$$ and comes up with this ridiculous idea?
So if i am going to somewhere let's say in Spain, flying out of EMA, i am in British airspace for roughly 35 minutes, then i'm in BREST....out of UK airspace! Usually the flight time to let's say MJV is 2 hrs 35 mins still air - which gives me 2hrs tax free...
If they DO want to tax me, tax me for the working minutes (35) within the British airspace. I refuse to actually PAY TO WORK!!!! Tax the pax for going on holiday, will ya? Cause you don't tax them enough for using APT's facilities such as breathing the APT's air...
I am furious and going mad when it comes to this tax thing. I work my butt off 12-14 hrs a day to make someone's day/trip/holiday better and safer. Cause i love my job! Tax me for loving my job you small minded money grabing *****

A very angry AST

11th Jun 2008, 22:29
There are only two things certain in life, death and taxes.

I suppose all the pax going off on their trips have not paid their income taxes?

Be careful what you ask for.

12th Jun 2008, 12:32
With ref to Dairn's post " Reference post number 6, you have to spend it between report time and off duty, so buying on the way to work won't work, unless you're late! " try finding some where near to the gate on a 60 min let alone 25 min turnaround and get all the preflight/refuel and safety related duties done plus disembarking and boarding pax(busiest part of the day for us) that allows you to buy proper food on a 4 sector + day. Runs of 5 or 6 days on with min rest between watch the NHS bill go up.

Or maybe we will just have to call in a a convenient airfield en route just like the M way service station. Take all the pax on a business lunch and claim that.:ugh: Oh to be a MP and not even have to have a receipt for less than 250.00

Machine Man
12th Jun 2008, 12:36
I am apolitical, but you pillocks who voted this bunch in knew you would have to pay more tax. History proves this! If you voted Labour, don't be wingeing now..........pillocks! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

12th Jun 2008, 12:41
So how about when you reach your destination shut down the aircraft and go and have a meal in the terminal being careful to collect a receipt (or a larger one if you can find it on the floor).
Once 2 hr turnrounds become the norm sufficient pressure will be placed on the IR to backtrack.

Alternatively you could call yourself Captain Speaking MP, that would keep them off your backs.

12th Jun 2008, 12:57
Just buy on board, get the crew to write out the receipt. Buy as much as you like!!!!!:eek: I need at least a 2 coffee's a sector and a sandwich a muffin. On FR could easily produce 30 quid a day in receipts:O

12th Jun 2008, 13:02
Well if the IR do decide to tax us to the hilt it will be up to us if it actually goes ahead. We have the ultimate power here, a/c need pilots and crew, if we choose to stay at home on the same day and ground every plane in the UK I think that might get the point across. Not to mention the impact on the economy.

We can discuss this, save our receipts, jump through all the hoops asked of us and all we are actually achieving is showing the taxman how much of our wages we are spending in foreign countries, so the little bean counter will want that cash kept in the UK and he can only do that by taxing us.

Personally I think we should take a lead from workers in Europe and when the taxman does come a calling we just say NO.


23rd Jun 2008, 18:41
They are currently investigating Ryanair ( which will obviously only affect the UK based guys on UK contracts).
As someone said, sounds like a new kid on the block out to impress and get that performance related bonus they dangled in front of him. Time for BALPA to earn their subs, or are Big Airways not being looked at too ?

23rd Jun 2008, 20:57
Captplaystation, BA is being looked at too, both CC and FC are being assessed in June.
What exactly do you expect BALPA to do about the taxman? I would be intrigued as to your response as i'm sure would BALPA. Or are you one of those "BALPA has never done anything for me" pilots? If you have some good ideas then forward them to your reps...

23rd Jun 2008, 21:22
Why do pilots get any wages tax free...I went to OZ for 6 months and didnt get any of my website earnings tax free...Why do you get tax free? I want to move to a country where the tax is better :(

24th Jun 2008, 13:22
If Ryanair is the main company that the IR are looking at then that doesn't surprise me. I always thought that it was uncompetetive letting one company pay have their salaries in allowances and therefore avoid paying tax and therefore the market rate of pay. Yes this is going to affect alot more than just ryanair, however, this does level the playing field a bit. Which in the long run is best for us all.

24th Jun 2008, 15:16
The best for us all, Kiteflier, would be if we paid no income tax at all. Wearing my anorak I can tell you that the total tax take for 2006/2007 was around GBP530 billion. Of this, 144 billion was income tax and the rest was from all the other myriad taxes sloshing around the system. A recent, well-researched book claimed that since Blair came to office, the government have spent GBP100 billion per year on consultants across all departments. Another study puts the cost of quangos, (Equal Opportunities Commission, Potato Marketing Board, Financial Services Authority, Regional Development Agencies etc) at GBP100 to 130 billion per year. Furthermore, Lee Rotherham and Matt Tyler wrote a book on behalf of the Taxpayers Alliance (check out website) identifying GBP101 billion of wasteful government spending. Our government spends a further GBP15 billion in subscriptions so that we can remain in the expensive, corrupt and undemocratic club known as the EU. Whilst there may be some overlap in these costs I am sure that a politician with the will could find GBP144 billion worth of savings, thus cancelling out the need for income tax altogether.
Scrapping income tax would be unpopular with the socialists, of course, since they see income tax as a means of punishing hardworking motivated folk who get on in life. However, the knock on benefits for the rest of us are legion. There would be enormous savings in the Treasury, since there would be no tax inspectors. Neither would we need 18000 people to administer the family tax credits. If there is no tax there can be no credit. The welfare trap, whereby the tax system makes it more profitable to stay on welfare, would be removed at a stroke. Wealthy folk would flood into the UK, increasing the cash in circulation and boosting jobs.
It is such a shame that we have a Conservative opposition whose big idea is to spend the same as McBroon. What have we done to deserve such a sorry bunch of MPs?

Pax Vobiscum
24th Jun 2008, 16:01
You forgot the down side, BIG MACH, no more highly-paid jobs for accountants and lawyers devising tax avoidance schemes ... oh, hang on, there is no down side! :ok:

Sick Squid
24th Jun 2008, 20:21
Wasn't he always in Number 10, Tony took 11 for the family if my memory serves me correctly?

It's personal taxation, therefore incumbent on the individual, not the company. Yes it will affect one's personal bottom line depending on the results but a surprising few seem to be of the rather dim mentality hinted at above that somehow the company will suffer in their stead. Only if they choose to, and that's as likely as Mugabe stepping down voluntarily.

Mr Angry from Purley
25th Jun 2008, 17:31
UK Express Parcels carrier undertaking exercise in July. 20 crewmembers.
No food on aeroplane, living in Hotels and airport junk machines. If there was a case for a hike am pretty sure who would come out most deserving :\

25th Jun 2008, 17:48
I worked in the Duty-free shop for 2 years... Tax Free Perfume isn't actually tax free anyway...this is why you can purchase it within the uk...Basically the Duty Free shops absorb the Tax and still pay the government but give it you tax free...

World of Tweed
25th Jun 2008, 18:57
I for one think it stinks.

Those of us who are employed by operators with night stops-ex UK /longhaul trips genuinely spend a portion of our pay Duty/FDA/Flight Pay/ Allowances whatever abroad making no contribution to the UK economy in that sense!

They simply do not have the Right to Tax that money...for my particular circumstances. End of story.

What I fear is that they will apply a blunt policy designed around examples in carriers where no ex-UK stops are involved and therefore deem all income taxable as it is intra-UK.

28th Jun 2008, 17:45
Go EAST my friends and avoid ALL tax.