Those considering NAS/NJME

[samishark1]

Be careful if you are considering comming here. I plan on leaving in a month or so. There seems to be 2 standards here. The Chief Pilots standards and other management standards. Since the new Chief Pilot has arrived, things have gone from good to bad. He thinks of himeself as a King, changing whatever rules he does not like. Unless you are on his buddy list, you will get treated like a nobody.

A Captain who is also a Check Airman on the Gulfstream fleet was caught trying to smuggle in wine in a thrumos into Saudi Arabia. He should have been fired on the spot, but insted the company did nothing but give him a slap on the wrist and told him to never do it again. The Saudi customs agents wanted to send him back to the U.S., but the company talked them out of deporting him out of Saudi Arabia. He is still a check airman, who should set higher standards for all, I am sure if NAS found out what happened, he would have been fired.

Then they have pilots who call in sick or fatigue once, and they are let go. So, hence the 2 standards, either you are on the buddy list or you are not.

Attrition is very high now, many managers, pilots, and F/A's have left within recent months, that should tell you something about working here

Plus, getting paid on time is still a huge issue

If you want more details about what is going on here, PM me

Good luck if you plan on working here

[B200Drvr]

Not so, you have not got your stories straight now have you? you are telling a bit of a one sided version, are you not? Amazing how things can be twisted to suit one. If you dont like it leave, but then maybe you have already!!!
It shows your substance that you choose to air your dirty laundry. Everybody that works there knows the truth, you are not doing yourself any favours here.

[pilotbear]

If there is another side then tell it don't just attack someone or it is 'pot calling kettle black' as they say:suspect:

[SNS3Guppy]

What's laughable is calling it a good company in the first place. To say it's gone from good to bad is wrong. Perhaps bad to worse. If that's even possible.

[B200Drvr]

I have no reason to go into it on the forum, it was dealt with in the company. Nothing to say but that what has been said is not the truth. As for it being a good or bad company, thats for individual experiences to decide. It is far better than most, they all have good and bad points, some things suit some people, and some people think they are bigger than the suits.

[samishark1]

Well B200, you can lie to everyone and tell prople that this did not happen but we all received the e-mail from the D.O. about this incident, I still have the copy, it did not list the name of the pilot who smuggled Wine into the Kingdom, but it was easy to find out, people talk including the Chief Pilot, The Pilot who smuggled wine into Saudi is a G-IV Captain/Check airman, his initials are...., and the e-mail from the D.O. stated that he was demoted and with a pay reduction, that is Bull, since he is still here, and doing the same job, how is that fair to all of the other pilots? If any one of us did this we would not have received the same deal, we would have been fired, I bet that if NAS management found out about this incident, he would have been fired, like I said, you are either on the Buddy list or you are not, you must be a buddy list pilot, or management, I would bet you are management since you defend the company so much.

And yes, this place is a DUMP, no doubt I made a mistake comming here

Good luck, people should know the truth about what happens here and how things are handled.


Edited by Duck. No names or even initials, comprendez?

[TWOTBAGS]

Sami, ever been in a company where there is not a buddy list? No I did not think so. I would bet the indiscretion list is a lot longer by many more people, but that’s not for this place now is it

Honestly like all companies there issues that need dealing with, but this year my money has hit the bank every month, its much better now this per diem is flat rated every month. Operations were decimated last year and the wealth of experience was lost, yes there issues hence the email from “The Don” the other day, what prompted it I have NFI but that’s life in the sandpit.
With regard $$$ what is a couple days here and there when there really are only 3 common working days between the Kingdom and the Real World per week. So really only 12 days a month where things may happen quickly…. “MAY” is the operative word

Believe me it gets a lot worse. B200 is right on the money if you ask me.

You have to ask yourself, why do people come? Why have some including a national transferred from Big Brother?

If its not to you taste then vote with your feet, its not North America, it is 1429 don’t forget. I am sure there are plenty of jobs awaiting back home……….. (err well maybe not).

Find me another job that I work 7 months a year and net as much, most of my friends work 10 times as hard, for substantially less and get a total of 6 weeks leave which half the time they cant book when they want.

NJME is not perfect by any means but it is better than a lot of places.

[B200Drvr]

Sami, I never said it didn't happen, I said what you wrote was not the whole truth, there is a difference.

[B200Drvr]

Well said WINJA

[4HolerPoler]

Err, 200Drvr, I would draw your attention to the warning at the bottom of the page -

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

]*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".


with the caution that a first-time poster (such as WINJA) might just not be an uninvolved party in this matter.

4HP

[samishark1]

Rise to the occasion? are you kidding? So you think that a pilot who tries to smuggle alcohol in the Kingdom rose to the occasion? You think that he set a high standard of professionalism and competency as you state the Chief Pilot Demands? If you think that the Chief pilot is Direct and Practical, how do you explain him not firing this pilot? He is also a check airman, someone who should set higher standards than others, yet he remains a check airman and maintains employed, even in the US this pilot would have been fired, no second chance, he not only broke Saudi law, and got away with it, but set a poor example in that he was able to break the law and still stay employed.

Hence why many see 2 clubs, the buddy club, and the non-buddy club

[Mladen Ostir]

My first visit to pprune in a looong time and what a dissapointment.

I personally know 6 guys working at NJME - four of whom have been there for over six years and two have been there for eighteen months. Various fleets and various seats. A mixture of airline backgrounds and corporate backgrounds.
I am in touch regularly with five of them. They are all more than happy with NJME. They have the usual gripes as most people with a brain would have when they are an 'employee', but all in all they are very contented with the operation and the lifestyle it affords.

I would suggest the opinion of five long term guys as opposed to one despondant employee would have to override my general opinion of the place.

It really is a shame to see such bitterness out there.

Samishark - your clearly aggressive manner on this forum betrays your personality . I would be guessing you'll never be happy with your Employer as there is probably a little too much pent up anger there. Chill buddy.

Have you considered applying to Emirates? You'd probably slot in nicely.

Hi to my buddies there at NJME and good to hear you're all making the most of life. Enjoy your months OFF!

:ok:

(Interesting to note that the posts re NJME are very few and far between. Perhaps their employees are just too busy enjoying life....food for thought).

[B200Drvr]

Thanks 4HP, I would not have agreed with the statement if I did not know who wrote it. :ok:

[Iver]

Aren't people entitled to their opinions? Why everyone so critical? This is an informational forum. Let people gripe if they want - you don't have to even look at the post. If Samishark don't like it he don't like it. Move on...

[batsky2000]

I agree, I don't work there but know of several Hawker and Gulfstream guys who do work there. Some say it is an O.K. place, but a bunch of my friends mention that it is not that great of a place. I am told of high attrition, poor management, and even many crews who can't get along with each other during a flight. I was even told of this situation, and the guys that I spoke with all said that he should have been fired for what he did. It does not matter how great of a pilot you are, if you break a law, then their are penalties, and getting fired is one of them. I was told that the only reason he still has his job is because he is a Check Airman, and they are short on those any ways. All in all, if someone wants to tell others what goes on in a company then so what, that is what this board is all about, it allows people to find out what go's on before you end up some place you would not want to be at.

[batsky2000]

Thats what this site is all about, for people to air out the dirty laundry of others, it is what makes this site more exciting, and also a way to learn what goes on in a company before you decide to join it. Just deal with it

[Request FL510]

Batsky

"...for people to air out the dirty laundry of others, it is what makes this site more exciting, and also a way to learn what goes on in a company before you decide to join it. Just deal with it."

I feel sorry for you if you have to use a site like this to "...air out the dirty laundry of others..." or find exitement.

Guys that use a site like this to air their dirty laundry do not have the guts to go and face the person they have a problem with. They rather use a faceless and anonymous forum to effectively commit a rather nasty form of character assasination without having to own up to what they are doing.

If a pilot has such a big problem with an organisation or person in an organisation, he/she should just leave.

[batsky2000]

I agree that you should face who you don't like, but this site is all about being anonymous, if we had to use our real names on this site, then les people would be here, and this site does not allow the use of names anyways.

I doubt that your real name is "Request FL510"? Again, that is what this site is all about, it is a message board, people can talk about any topic they want on this site, some more constructive than others, I would not have gone this route, but I don't fault the guy either, none of us know the whole story, and it is his way of expressing his displeasure of the situation, now others know what happened at his company, and others can make comments, I know one thing, at my company, if one of our pilots tried to smuggle alcohol into a country that bans it, he would not get to keep his job, he would have been fired, it kind of makes no sense why the management at NJME decided to keep him as well as let him stay on as a check airman as if he did nothing wrong, it sends the wrong message to everyone else.

[Duck Rogers]

...this site does not allow the use of names anyways.




Au contraire.

[Gobble]

I've just been invited for interview there.
Used to work in the middle east but not been there for a few years.
I had some buddies that used to work there but they're all gone now.
It's hard to make a decision when there's so much conflicting information.

If you do work there - anyone! - I'd love to get a PM about the job.

Thanks in advance if you can.

:ok:

[Mladen Ostir]

Gobble

It seems a shame there's such weird people out there like Samishark: they make such harsh accustations then dissapear into cyberspace. I wonder in this case, is it the problem with the person more so than the company?

Since my last post i've been in touch with people that work there and they're pretty happy with the whole gig. In fact, they're very happy.
Drop me a PM if you like. I think samishark may have been a case of falling short of the measuring stick. There's been some pretty interesting people let go there lately and it sounds like the company is better for it.

Samishark, I've heard about your emails sent to internal company addresses - you really know how to go bellow the belt, you may have a gripe to bear but in many ways you should be ashamed with your action's. Using other peoples personas as a scapegoat is just about as low as it gets.

You should be ashamed samishark and I please: I stand to be corrected.

:=

[TWOTBAGS]

It all comes down to perspective and expectations.

Do NOT come here thinking it is bigger, better, faster, higher, blah blah blah.

If you are leaving a part 91/135 operator on a 550 that flies from party to party, where you get $1000 in slip money at every stop then you are going to be sadly disappointed.

If you think that the salary is not enough for you then don’t sign on the bottom line, if you think you can make $1000 or more a day freelancing form gig to gig back home then, this place is not for you.

If you are the kind of person that cant entertain yourself without a drink in your hand or cant handle relative isolation then its not for you either.

HOWEVER

At NJME you earn a tax free salary year round paid every month not always looking over your shoulder for the next gig. The salary is not the highest but if your lifestyle does not exceed your means then you can live very well.
Once you are in the system it runs like clock work then you have got past stage 1.

If you have a life outside of flying then this is the right place, the 35/31 rotation is very very good if you have a life. That is, at the end of your on tour, you turn off your company phone and you have 4 weeks to do what ever you want, sit on the beach and drink cold corona’s watch the sun slip over the horizon……, play with your kids, rebuild that car you have been promising yourself since you were 19, go skiing…. (insert water/snow/sand/cockpit….as you like), jump in an Extra and scare the bejesus out of yourself.

Then at the end of your 4 weeks turn your company phone on a couple days before your due to come back on rotation, have your bag packet because the next time it rings it will be.

“Captain are you ready for your travel briefing”

NOW REPEAT THE ABOVE FIVE TIMES A YEAR!……….. you have passed stage 2.

Get it into your head before you come here it is like any other job in the middle east, you are just a chauffer nothing but hired help. But with one difference.

You come here with two buckets, a brown bucket and a gold bucket. Which ever bucket fills first is the one you take. You can take home a bucket of brown or a bucket of gold it all depends on your perspective and expectations.

So in summary, if you have been pushing 900hrs per year flogging a clapped out CRJ around the skys living on little more than food stamps or if you have been push a geriatric jet held together by speed tape and chicken wire around the dark parts of Africa.

Then this job is like heaven and everyday the sun goes down over FAL and the witching hour has passed, is another day closer to that cold corona on the beach.

But if, you expect to have your ass kissed from FAL to France and back again because you’re the sky god who has flown everything every where and you last job was so much better……….. please just take the brown bucket and go back to your own planet.

It is not the US or even Europe, it’s Saudi Arabia where the current year is 1429!

OR

Decent salary, 5 block months holiday per year and generally a pretty good bunch of fellow expats to work with….. take the gold bucket.

Like I said it all come down to perspective and expectations.

[buger T]

Well Said and well written! The hard part of the job however is gettin on that "buddy list" I personally know two members of management. NOT IMPRESSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But hey I can agree with just what you wrote!

[jeh01]

Hey Chaps,

Sorry to interupt the pissing match. I'm very intrested in the job, in the future. What is the inital medical exam like? How was the tech and sim ride? Thanks for the info. I realize they're not hiring right now. Cheers.

JEH

[joehunt]

How much "Space Shuttle" time you got? Do you have an "IQ" of 160+? Good, then you are in with a chance.:rolleyes:

[Flintstone]

Jeh.

I don't think you're interrupting anything, the post before yours was eight months ago. Everybody's drunk up and gone home.




joe.

They turned you down then? ;)

[joehunt]

No not quite.

The Netjets part of the interview was both fair and practical. However when the the other half got hold of the reins, I found things rather strange. I had the distinct impression they were looking for academics and not pilots. I would have expected the examination they set, more applicable to a NASA interview, rather than a pilot based in a **** hole like the KSA.

I queried the sense of such and examination with the invigilator and he just smiled. I then decided to "let them go" and quietly excused myself.

I hope that makes sense as NAS certainly was not making any sense to me. :ugh:

Now if you can tell me if an examination such as that, is a way to screen a reasonable operator, then I am am very keen to hear what you have to say.

BTW I hold both JAA ATPl and FAA ATP.

[Flintstone]

Oh I know exactly what you mean ;)

YHM

[B200Drvr]

Joe, Don't confuse Netjets with NAS, the pilot hiring for NJME is done by NJME staff, and has nothing to do with NAS pilot hiring. If you are interviewed by NAS, you will not be applying for a job at NJME.

[joehunt]

B200Drvr

Sorry, you are wrong.

The job I applied for and was interviewed for was NJME. Had an interview with 2 Netjets people then a sim ride. NAS came in with this ridiculous test, that told me really all I wanted to know about them. Now I don't know what the tie up was with the two outfits, then or now and don't care anymore.

Just telling my side of a story. As I had a job and still do, it was no loss to me whatsoever. A day out in Paris and tied it in with other work.

[TWOTBAGS]

Question Joe,

When were you interviewed as in month year and that will explain a lot to us.

B200 & I have had a very different experience than you.

The new CP and previous CP who is now DFO.... are both very reasonable people but the can sniff out bull###t a mile away.

Believe me when they smell blood in the water you dont want to be there.

But if NAS has pushed a spaceshuttle examdown their throat, i had nothing to do with NJME.

[Kent BeTrue]

Is the new CP or DFO a certain Gentleman from NZ, first initial D....... Top rugger bloke??

If so, he should be doing fine.... great operator, great guy!

[joehunt]

TWOTBAGS

As I said I had nothing against the NJME part of the interview.

The panel consisted of an American, built like Arnold Schwarzenegger and what could be described as a "very senior" F/A. This sim session was also practical and fair, conducted by a young Englishman.

I also can sniff out b/s further than you think that is why I walked out. I have not seen or heard anything since about the behaviour of the tie up in JED, that has changed my mind.

"Believe me when they smell blood in the water you don't want to be there." So what you're saying is they rule with an iron fist and by fear? If so, how archaic.

Let me run this pass you one more time. I applied for a position as a Captain with NJME, got it? This was the advertised position but I would have been offered a position as a F/O had I been "successful" at interview as it turned out. The goal posts had changed already from that of advertised, so that sealed it for me. The "space shuttle" examination, by the partner of the joint venture, was the final straw.

If they jerk people around when they are looking for crews, then what the hell are they going to be like when they don't want crews?

Let's say we all did each other a good turn.

[Stupidbutsaveable]

Joe

Just curious; what sort of questions are talking about in your 'Space Shuttle' exam?

[TWOTBAGS]

Kent BeTrue..... yes you are correct, 100% correct




"Believe me when they smell blood in the water you don't want to be there." So what you're saying is they rule with an iron fist and by fear? If so, how archaic.

Absolutely not, the changes happening now are long overdue and very welcomed by the majority of us down here, but if you try and sneak one bit of B/S by them .......... you are out and deservedly.

They have one of the best open door policies I have ever operated, before there were no post holders, now there are.

We have fleet managers, who are there to filter, and a CP & a DP all who in my experience answer the phone when you call (not that I need to) when available. Even out of the 10am meeting the only time you cant get them, is when they are in the pointy end themselves.

Makes a very welcome change.

I have to say that you may have interviewed for a DE position, but it is NJ policy... "NOW" that everyone goes into the right seat for inspection.

This has come about by the occurrence of issues that have appeared as crews have checked to line. This has not been limited to any particular group of people however some are not cutting the mustard as expected.

The new CP has raised the bar and rightly so, there are no more easy rides.

You know your stuff or you dont, if you cant poop get off the pot.

If you believe the goal posts have been moved thats one thing, we see the bar being raised. NJME now is not the NJME of 5 or even 2 years ago.

The place is in my view changed, and for the good of everyone.