View Full Version : Which TO callouts would you make if you could decide?
Pugilistic Animus
1st Jun 2008, 01:52
The title says it all...
Thank You, Ladies and Gentlemen,
PA
Pugilistic Animus
1st Jun 2008, 01:57
I say power set---80 knots ---V1 or V are if V1=VR---Gear Up--very simple?--too verbose?----too simple---
also, to add to the title [why]?
Mach E Avelli
1st Jun 2008, 02:14
If there is an annunciator which tells you that the power is set, say it: e.g. 'N1 TOGA' ; otherwise just 'thrust (or power) set'
Then '80 knots' with a response from the other guy 'checked'
'Vee One'
'Rotate'
'Gear Up'
No need for the positive rate - that is written in the SOP - then:
'Heading Select' (or whatever you want, such as 'LNAV')
At first thrust reduction, either 'N1, bug 210, flap one' or whatever is appropriate to type, or simply:
'Climb thrust (power)'
In other words much the same calls you would make to cover an engine failure so that you don't have to learn two separate procedures - the only difference being climb power is deleted for the engine failure case.
'Flap...' to which the response '...selected' is useful if only to prevent the wrong selection if there are several retraction stages. Nothing much else matters and seems to be talking just to make it sound good on the CVR.
The FDR captures it all for the enquiry anyway.
Some types may have some other critical thing that has to be said, like on some turbo-props 'Auto-feather armed' as the light comes on with application of power, but in general use as few words as possible.
rubik101
1st Jun 2008, 09:56
As few as possible, as mentioned above, but please, please can we all use 'STOP' or 'GO' in the event of a failure prior to V1?
Abandon, abort, reject, continue, keep going, just what are they all about?
FE Hoppy
1st Jun 2008, 11:12
As few as possible, as mentioned above, but please, please can we all use 'STOP' or 'GO' in the event of a failure prior to V1?
Abandon, abort, reject, continue, keep going, just what are they all about?
As you are already GO-ing I would prefer "continue"
fantom
1st Jun 2008, 11:14
Because 'STOP' is clear but 'GO' is not. What if something else happens but you've already said 'GO'?
'CONTINUE' means you have decided to continue but reserve the right to alter that decision before V1.
Same as a low-vis approach. When you see the lights at minimums you should call 'Continue' not 'Land'.
Airlines adopted this logic a few years ago.
"Continue" during LVP? Wonder how much you gonna continue at 50ft before you decide to land. We have "continue" during take of roll and for the same reasons as you cited. For landing we have it if we have positive visual contact but no landing clearance yet. During LVP it is either "land" or "go around", nothing between that.
FE Hoppy
1st Jun 2008, 11:59
Denti,
I'm with you on this.
Q. After declaring "Land" what procedure would you adopt in case the landing has to be Aborted due to a runway incursion for example?
fantom
1st Jun 2008, 12:08
Sorry, but I'm afraid you're behind the times.
The accident with the 757 at Gerona is oft cited because the crew were in a 'landing' mind-set when they should have gone around at a very late stage, having lost sight of the rwy. Only yesterday did I demo a go-around at 50' during an initial LVP sim.
FE Hoppy
1st Jun 2008, 12:22
Fantom,
did you "go -around" using the normal prescribed "go-Around" procedure?
if yes- why?
if no- What procedure did you use?
We do train go-arounds including balked landings down till you are touched allready, even though we do say "land" it is of course allways possible to just press those TOGA switches and do a go-around (and calling out "go around" as well of course). I have done that a couple times in real life allready. It is absolutely no biggie.
Actually we can answer to the 500ft RA auto-callout with "land" if we judge that landing is assured and omit any subsequent callouts with that (approaching minimum, minimum). However if any of both pilots calls out "go around" we will just do that and discuss later.
Go-Arounds at or below minimum are something we have to do several times each time we are in the simulator (4 to 6 times a year) so we are kinda used to it.
rubik101
1st Jun 2008, 22:19
As I said, Stop and Go work perfectly well under all the aforementioned examples. KISS.
As few as possible, as mentioned above, but please, please can we all use 'STOP' or 'GO' in the event of a failure prior to V1?
Abandon, abort, reject, continue, keep going, just what are they all about?
"ABORT" seems the most unambiguous callout for aborting a takeoff.
"STOP"
Stop what?
"Abort" is unambiguous and stands out from common terms in ordinary speech like your "stop", and it is immediately clear in its interpretation without even an instant required to do so.
"You abort a takeoff" is simply more concise than "You stop a takeoff".
FE Hoppy
2nd Jun 2008, 07:56
We used Abort on my first AC type-- NIMROD. But we said it 3 times!!!!
I prefer a loud and clear "STOP!!
Brayton Cycle
2nd Jun 2008, 09:38
"If the decision is to reject the takeoff, the captain must clearly announce "REJECT",...."
As per Boeing 747 QRH Non-normal Maneuvers. Not too sure what Airbus uses but "Reject" does say it all! Once the hand is off the thrust levers (at V1), we are committed and therefore do not call "GO" or "continue" unless the aircraft is in such a state where it has no hope of getting airborne!!