Unusual EZY command course

[woodward]

What is going on at ezy at the moment?? I have just heard that although there are no new commands needed on the GB fleet the son of a GB STC has spent the week quietly doing a private command course at CTC with only ONE trainer doing all the sim sessions including the final check. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can advise whether this is even legal??? As an EZY FO waiting for a command at LGW (personal circumstances preclude moving abroad at the moment), I find this a bit hard to swallow....

[beachbumflyer]

May be he paid for it.

[jorel]

Not sure which is worse..... Your circumstances being aired on PPrune or U-tube.

Woody that's some commute from Lahore.. Let it go:oh:

[3Greens]

if the same instructor thing is true then it is indeed against the CAA rules.
The examiner, where possible, conducting the LPC/OPC should not have been involved in the candidates training.

[PENKO]

Why not post it on our private forum?

[Dogma]

Sounds like you need urgent clarification from easyland. Would not stand for this.

[CaptainProp]

Are you guys really surprised? Not saying that this actually happened (no idea actually) but la la land does whatever they want, whenever they want.... Always been like this and will always continue to be like this....BALPA or no BALPA.

[BusBoy]

quite so, think BALPA will be there when you need them??

[er82]

Consider this.... he's getting his command training done, then going back in the RHS for the summer because the GB fleet is short of FO's. Then when the switch to easy happens, he'll go back in the LHS!!

[heebeegb]

2 guys, on a command course. As required by GB/Easy. At the correct time with regard to hours, experience and seniority. What's the problem? The fact they have to spend an extra month or two in the right seat is a problem, surely, only for them.

[orangetree]

It will all come out in the wash. In past years there would be no problem because there were plenty of commands unfortunately this is no longer the case with 100+ Easy guys all waiting for their slot. I have heard plenty of conspiracy theories surrounding the promotion of too many GB fo's prior to the takeover completion. I should imagine that most of it is gross exaggeration however even if true I don't see that much can be done about it now if it was arranged before the takeover took place. It doesn't bode well for crewroom morale though :hmm:

[joe two]

By the way : it is not a merger , EZY bought GB.

(EZY with 150+ aircraft bought the soon to be cripple GB with 15 old aircraft so that EZY went from 21 to 36 aircraft on LGW in one go)

[d41xcs]

i think if you do your research you'll find that the GB aircraft weren't that old at all!

[Mister Geezer]

Sounds like you want something done about this. PPRuNe ain't the place for this. Keep this internal and I suggest your Base Capt maybe the best point of contact?

[flutter]

We WILL all get our chance at easy! Who knows what has gone on behind the scenes, just put your anger into reading the manuals for when your time comes!

[box]

Balpa, maybe they can help? :E

[rivalino]

Almost all of the ex GB captains and first officers have also not found this funny.

[SpGo]

heebeegb,

If these two guys are needed in the righhand seat, why do we train them to the LHS??

[D4VE]

As usual a whiff of truth turned into a scandal. The 320 Fleet is actually undercrewed at the moment not overcrewed hence why there are guys on overtime! Good old EZY efficiencies over the last few months have prevented these guys continuing in the LHS because they physically can't roster line training. BALPA have been in the loop all along (I am told) and as far as the others are concerned at a forum last week I was told that there are a few F/O's who have completed the GB command assessment process and who EZY + GB Balpa have agreed a CPI date and slotted them into the list, they will be offered a command in CPI order just like everyone else. All other ex GB F/O's will have to follow the new NTC although they are not allowed to initiate it yet.

There is no scandal just discussion!! And yes i agree, this should be on the EZY forum.

[jorel]

Norm, where did your post go..... have the screws got to ya

[Elephant and Castle]

EZY + GB + Balpa have indeed agreed to screw Ezy FO's on the command waiting list. 10 GB guys started their command course as the takeover was taking place and are finishing the process about now. A futher bunch of GB Fo's have been given a CPI date and will slot in the list acording to this date. What date has been chosen? the date that puts them at the top of the list ofcourse. It must be nice to be taken over and then go straight to the top of the list. I bet this guys cannot beleive their luck! In 2008 just over 30% of commands at Ezy will go to GB guys. :D

[PENKO]

Hmmm, now I don't know where to reply anymore, here or in our own ezy forum.

Anyway, this seems less and less like a roumor. Elephant, where have you got this information from? IS there anyone from BALPA here who can explain what is going on before we start calling Luton?

[Kraut]

I believe this is more an "internal affair". Bring your request up at the BALPA forum, at least my suggestion.

[speedyboarding]

Could all be nonsense, however my understanding is that late last year the GB Command Review Board met and decided 8 commands were required. 8 courses subsequently handed out with the first commencing begining Feb 08 with a view to the majority being completed before the handover date to easyJet.

One unfortunate chap wasn't successful on the course and it was deemed that 2 new bods were required. This created some stir as the guys selected did have seniority but there were major question marks about minimum experience levels. (For info min hours at GB for command was 4000 reduced to 3500 in exceptional circumstances and only with 3 years experience within the company) Others further down the list with more than enough hours (and successful pre-command training reports) were allegedly told to "quieten down"

Allegedly this course commenced at CTC in Southampton last week with one single trainer for all sims and examination. Upon completion of this course the 2 candidates are to return to RHS flying for 4-6 weeks until line training is available. One would assume that an LPC would be required again in the sim before the commencement of line training - whether this will be with another examiner thus solving the legalities of a single trainer doing the entire course or not is as yet to be determined.

Anyone looking for clarification should probably speak to his or her base captain and/or Balpa reps.

[springbok449]

This kind of nonesense was always destined to happen one day at EZY because of the lack of seniority list...It was not an issue when they bought GO as the company was still rapidly expanding but now with the economy slowdown its a different story....

EZY/Balpa CC wont do anything about it, they never have done anything that didnt directly affect those on the committee...

Good Luck guys and girls from both Airlines...

[Kraut]

EZY/Balpa CC wont do anything about it, they never have done anything that didnt directly affect those on the committee...

I think this is a very nasty statement and not fair at all!:=

[qualitycontrol]

All depends on who is friends with whom.............

[springbok449]

Kraut,

I dont see how its a very nasty statement, it may not be a nice one but I was at EZY long enough to have witnessed certain things first hand...

Bokkie.

PS: So how exactly will the CC sort the issue out with who gets what command in the near future?

[Doug the Head]

Why would anyone think that something "unusual" goes on in a company that does not have a clear and transparent system (i.e. seniority!) in place...? :rolleyes:

It's all perfectly normal, so relax! :)

[PENKO]

The whole idea of CPI dates should be transparent enough, shouldn't it? (apparently not, but I doubt that a seniority list would have prevented what appears to be going on)

[Onimusha]

I think its fair to say that all us ex gbers know exactly what is going on regards this particular command course and its certainly describeable at best as irregular.

There is no real requirement for this course other than the fact that it means the STC in question gets to guarantee the promotion of his vested interest. I think its hard to argue that one trainer carrying out the whole course is far from ideal, but it does cut down on possible complications as long as the trainer is carefully selected.....

easyjet fo's waiting for an LGW command should be asking questions about this. As for posting this on the company forum, that would be a good idea, other than its not anonymous and experience shows questioning these matters openly guarantees grief.

[Oxidant]

Replace "hard" with "easy" methinks?:mad:

[Starbear]

if the same instructor thing is true then it is indeed against the CAA rules. The examiner, where possible, conducting the LPC/OPC should not have been involved in the candidates training.Respectfully suggest this really only applies to an LST rather than LPC. See extract from CAA Doc 24 with particular emphasis on the word rating. One is not normally given training for a rating renewal and I assume no new rating applicable in this case? But like many things can be read to be a little ambiguous.




3.8 JAR-FCL states that “Examiners shall not test applicants to whom flight instruction has been given by them for that licence or instrument rating except with the express consent in writing of the Authority”.

[Prince Caspian]

There are some serious concerns regarding this individual's suitability for the role of aircraft commander. His antics in recent months are well known and he is seen by many as a liability. Someone else with his track record and reputation would not have been given this opportunity.
Quite frankly, the whole thing stinks.

[Husky One]

I don't think the GB CC would be stupid enough to start this as a wind up to EZY FO's. Has their deal with management regarding commands been ratified yet? Go ask them that first. The fact this is your first post speaks volumes. Go play with your wooden spoon elsewhere.

[heebeegb]

Prince Caspian
How brave of you to hide behind that name and spout out the kind of insulting rubbish you do. 2 guys on a course, both passed. Congratulations to them both.

[fiftyfour]

Prince Caspian does not say he can't pass the course. The question is suitability as Commander (ie personal qualities). The selction process was weak - indeed was there a selection process?

[Krispin]

I have flown with the people in question, BOTH of which are top quality guys, excellent operators and very suitable for command. I cant see why everyone has a problem? seems like Prince Caspian is very bitter about something...

[heebeegb]

Likewise. And my sentiments too.

[Viking101]

Well its all about being correct and fair. EZY buying an airline and merging two lists of pilots undergoing assessments and pilots waiting for a command course is not easy. This is something the two companies should have agreed on during the negotiations before the actual take over, together with BALPA.

Unfortunately I dont think this is the fact. BALPA has done some errors internaly in EZY, like accepting too many DEC:s etc which put a lot of F/Os down the list and still waiting today for the upgrade. BALPA has stated they are working towards a transparent command progress within the company but that will never happen because of internal connections and agreements to make life easy for others. Thats the business. :ugh:

So what is wrong, what is right? Should all the EZY guys be put in front of all former GB guys just because they were bought? Or should some of the GB guys come first because them having a earlier CPI date, according to their former manuals? :confused:

Just like all the other airlines merging- Good luck. There will always be victims in this business. :*

:}

[Arthur Dent1]

Well, there is some appalling nepotism in many companies, one example would be flight safety officer positions offered to relations of company managers, but advertised openly on company webpages not often read by aircrew.

The problem with nepotism as an issue is that individuals who benefit from it normally retain positions with better job security, more money and power over standard mortals. One company definitely used cronyism as the recruitment standard, one lucky puppy, 200 hrs flying experience with a daddy who owned a tour operator ended up with a brilliant jet job while gulf war 1 veterans and experienced type rated pilots rotted at home. Now line training and given power and economic superiority over the unfortunate. Whether this sort of behaviour is common in medicine or engineering is open for debate.

[orangetree]

sounds like you've just audited the Boeing training department Arthur :hmm:

[blow.n.gasket]

Is that why Jetstar in Australia are offering LOA to go to EasyJet.