Cwmbran ATC College

[chrisy08]

Hi All,
Has anyone been to this college, if so could you tell me what careers this will lead to (i know ATC but will it lead to international airports e.g. Heathrow, Gatwick, Bristol etc) or is that from Bournemouth?
Thanks

[anotherthing]

Chrisy08

I've not been to that college, but in view of the fact no one else has answered, I will give you a short, hopefully factually correct answer.

The 'international airports' as you call them Heathrow, Gatwick, Brizzle etc are controlled by NATS controllers - NATS has to bid for the contract to renew it whenever it comes up.

See http://www.nats.co.uk for further airports that NATS controllers work at.

Traditionally, these 'NATS' airports were manned by controllers who have been trained at the college at Hurn (Bournemouth, but nothing to do with the airfield or tower there).
However there is a shortfall of qualified controllers all over and NATS do sometimes take on controllers who already hold a valid TWR/Gnd licence.

The course at Cwmbrawn will furnish you with a student licence which will enable you to apply for jobs where you will need to undergo further 'On the job training' to obtain your full licence.

There are several places where jobs are advertised - Flight magazine being one of them.

I am sure that the staff at Cwmbrawn will be more than happy to advise you if you call them - and I am equally sure that once you are on a course with them, they will give you advice on how to go about finding a position of employment.

Airports are run by a variety of diffeerent agencies, from private companies to local councils.

The trick is to get your student license - thats step one.

Then get a job and become valid. Once you have a few years experience under your belt you can look at moving to another airport if you wish.

You could always try to apply for NATS - though you are more likely statistically to be sent Area rather than App/Twr if you pass the training.

If you are hell bent on being a Twr controller, and paying for your own training, then e-mail or call the guys at Cwmbrawn - they will be more than happy to help you.

[niknak]

Chris,

I think you'll find that they were taking the piss, pisz and pizz - it happens a lot when the intended target bites, you'll learn...:):E

Back to Bae Cwmbran, from what I know of ASTAC, realistically there's not much to choose between the two colleges.
I was at Bae last year and although the place is decently enough equipped and the staff are good at what they do, but there was an almighty battle of ego's going on amongst various instructors at the time and it hadn't gone un noticed by many of the customers.
As far as I know the promotion of one ego elsewhere within the company and the promotion of another ego to a position considered worthy by the incumbant has pacified the waters.

At the time Bae had their eye on another site on a new industrial estate directly by the motorway and within staggering distance of the hotel used by many of their customers, far more convenient than battling into Cwmbran every morning, but I don't know if it came to anything.

Whichever you choose, if you are going to self sponsor, get an assesment done first, it'll cost around £300 but save you a lot of dosh if you turn out not to be suitable.

[Charlie23]

Yep, I know them both well (ASTAC and Cwmbran) and there is not much to choose between them. A lot of military use the college to convert to a civil licence. I think the instruction at the colleges is more tailored to ATC assistants with some experience or ex-military controllers. Instructional levels vary but are OK. in my opinion - ASTAC seems ahead in the 'hit parade' at the moment (based on personalities previously mentioned in this thread) An assessment will give you a clue, but I know they will not necessarily give an accurate measure of your ability. Working in ATC as an assistant will give you a better clue. If it is non-NATS, they will sponsor you through one of the colleges after a while (most units are short of controllers). Apply to NATS before you do anything else is my advice. Good luck.

[Scooby Don't]

Chrisy08, just remember to proof-read your posts before submitting (such as remembering the apostrophe in "he's") and bear in mind that some of those who are fastidious about the English language are also fastidious about ATC standards and could very well be your future supervisors or, perhaps as importantly, interviewers.

You do give the impression of having done very little research, and while asking questions here is admittedly a valid means of doing some of that research, there are a couple of books worth reading which will tell you about ATC equipment, airspace structure and more. It'll all be useful information for future interviews, and the more you're prepared to do for yourself, the more likely you are to impress potential employers with your dedication.

I don't know what the current stats are, but it used to be the case that a qualified applicant to NATS had about a 1% chance of ending up as a valid controller. Self-funding no doubt improves the success rate somewhat, but it's still a long slog and the more you can do to help yourself and prepare yourself, the more likely you are to succeed.

Incidentally, those potential employers are don't give a damn about your standard of written English will certainly not mind it happens to be correct. Those who do care about your standard of English will most definitely give a damn if it's wrong.... :=

[Loki]

I don`t mind that you seem to be illiterate (lamentable though that may be) what concerns me is that when advised, you become belligerent. I wonder how you would behave as a trainee.

In my not inconsiderable experience, the stroppier the trainee, the briefer his tenure.

[Loki]

Look, one of the best controllers I ever had the privilege of working with, couldn`t spell worth a bean. Being in ATC, everyone took the p*ss out of him occasionally (just like I`ve had to endure plenty of the same for my shortcomings). He accepted all of it good naturedly and gave back some cr*p in kind. If you want to come into ATC, which is a great career choice, you had better get used to some fairly robust treatment. In an operational environment, there won`t be too much time spent by others considering the fragility of your ego.


Good luck, the advice was meant kindly.

[Vulcan Lover]

I employ ATCOs.

I get CVs every month from ATCOs looking for jobs.

If they can’t spell or write proper English or can’t be bothered to check their letters, it tells me reams about how careful they will be as a working ATCO. They rarely get past the first post.

If you are serious about entering a profession where mistakes could kill, be professional about how you apply.

[watch_the_birdie]

I return to be enlightened about Cwmbran ATC College. Alas, I am not.

Chrisy08 - stop biting! You're 17, and you still have much to learn young padawan.

Also, please look up the word "heterograph". I spot a large number in your last posts, and they are not the product of lazy typing or silly typos. I think you'll find that is the grammar problem the others are getting at here.

All the best.

[morgstar]

Chrisy,

Your thirst for knowledge is admirable, you are obviously keen on a career in aviation/air traffic control. I have noticed that you have only been a member of these boards for a short period yet you have asked many questions and responded to/started many posts.

Whilst I am not an employer, interviewer or a superior I suspect that a keen willingness to learn is something that employers look for in TATC's.
However, I KNOW (because i was told and asked about it at my stage 3 interview) that NATS are particularly keen to find out how you respond to criticism before they employ you.
For exmaple I was asked what I would do if one of my tutors kept giving me bad marks or rubbishing my work even if i was doing my best and believed my work was to a great standard.
The answer is I would ask to speak to them alone and discuss my short comings (if indeed i had any;)). The answer was definately not, 'I would stand up infront of the rest of my peers and tell him that even with all of his experience I knew better.
The reality is I am a poor speller and my grammer is pretty shocking too (as it happens i had an A at GCSE in English to go along with 4 A*'s and 3 more A's, I personally do not think school exam results tell us an awful lot about anyone in the real world). I still managed to get through the interview stages and I hope to cope at the college, in fact i hope to excel at the college.

Back to the actual thread and the crux of most of Chrisy's posts and threads. I actually live about 2/3 miles from the cwmbran trainning school and never even considered it an option. It is pretty obvious to me that NATS affords you the best and most ecconomical route to becoming an ATC. It also offers you a route to the major areodromes if that is what you want.
I get the impression (and yes I know that i do not know you personally) that the reason you are looking at Cwmbran so much is that you dont want to leave Wales and whilst I niether wish to leave GOD'S OWN COUNTRY:ok: in this case trying to get a place at NATS is the best way of going about achieving your dream.

All the very best with what ever you do I honestly do think that your eagerness to find out all you can is admirable, however I do think you have a few years of growing up to do before you can really consider a career as an ATC.

Remember dont take things too personally and heed any advise you recieve it could prove to be very valuable in the future.

Good luck

[chrisy08]

Thank you Vercingetorix for your support.

Morgstar, thank you for you knowledge and understanding of ATC. I have researched alot about this but find that some things are not easy to find so I joind this forum. As you can see in this forum alot of people have been petty picking about me.
I agree, I don't want to leave Wales as I love it here and I am only 17. Cwmbran is about 20miles from me. I do know NATS is much better and is the best way forward for ATC but it is one heck of a journey from here and its very complicated as I am only 17. Thank you also for showing respect for me I much appriciate it. Good luck at college.
Thank you for the advice about criticism :cool:
As you can see from this forum some people just don't seem to learn respect.

Thanks

Chris.

[SACrIGGER]

Chrissy,

There are many 18 year olds at or have recently been through the college, many with a great further distance to travel than from Wales.

Don't let your age be a factor in applying for what I believe is the best ATC career option this country has to offer.

Many people leave home at a young age to pursue their careers, I left home when I was 17 to join the RAF, and didn't look back (until 7 years down the line when I realised the RAF was in fact not the best career move I could have made.)

In conclusion if you want to be an ATCO, apply for NATS, live away from home, do the hard work, have the ups and downs that training brings, then when its all behind you, you can enjoy the good life that you have worked so hard for.

[Colonel Gimble]

WTB,

if you want to know more about Cwmbran send me a private message and I'll give you all the details.

For those reading this thread I can not sing the praises of BAe Cwmbran highly enough.

The Colonel.

[Dizzee Rascal]

I have done a few courses at BAe and agree with Colonel Gimble.

[chrisy08]

Thank you for your replys.

Dizzie, I take it you have been to Cwmbran BAe College?

How did you find it, and would it be possible if you could give me as much advice and information about Cwmbran ATC?

Thanks

Chris.

[Dizzee Rascal]

How did you find it, and would it be possible if you could give me as much advice and information about Cwmbran ATC?

Where in Wales do you live?

I would strongly recommend you visit the college and you can find out all you want to know from them.

The staff are extremely helpful and would answer all your questions for you and a visit would give you the opportunity to look around the simulators and talk to the other students already there on courses. You could also stay at the hotel and sample the Dragon Fly (the pub/restaurant next door to the hotel where the majority of the students dine of an evening)

As you are a self sponsor, I'd certainly recommend you visit the other college to compare the two even though I am sure you will be back to BAE in the end.

Either way, get on the phone to the college and speak to them, they are more helpful than you might think.

The head of UK training at BAE can be contacted at [email protected] 01633 835123

Don’t forget you will need a class one medical….

[classicwings]

I am currently researching myself into attending either BAe Cwmbran College or ASTAC Rudloe College at Gloucester Airport in the near future to obtain a UK Aerodrome (ADI) rating. However I am not finding it an easy decision to make- especially when I am faced with the prospect of forking out about £25K all inc!!! Knowing about the success/failure rates at both of the Colleges would be one of the key factors to influence my decision.

Having not worked as an Assistant previously I am also quite keen to learn about the prospects of being taken on at as trainee at a regional airport/aerodrome once I have completed the course.

Anyone else in the same boat as me at the mo?!

[chrisy08]

Dizzie,

I am from the Cardiff area of Wales. So if I was to join the BAe college it would not be a difficult journey anyway, so there would be no need to fork out more money on sleeping and eating :ok:

I will look into visiting BAe Cwmbran in the very near future and will contact them any help or enquirys.

Thank you very much dizzie it is much appriciated

Chris.

[tired-flyboy]

Listen to the Colonel!!!!

he can tell you from both sides of the house...know the colonel personally and can back up everything he tells you!

All hail the colonel!

[chrisy08]

Thank you tired-flyboy. I have PM Colonel bno yet replied.

I would appriciate any information you could give also tired-flyboy.

Thanks

Chris.

[niknak]

Dizzee,

hasn't Eleanor flounced off to be a very important person at Filton, dragging her bagpipes behind her:E?

Verc'

Incumbant, incumbent, cucumber? does it matter?:p

[Dizzee Rascal]

hasn't Eleanor flounced off to be a very important person at Filton, dragging her bagpipes behind her?

Not since last week when she was seen at the college by some of the current students there.

[EastCoaster]

Chrisy,

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend BAe Cwmbran. I have been there twice and have been extremely impressed with the attitude of all of the staff (not just the instructors), and the quality of the training provided. Also, they are very receptive to any criticisms/suggestions for improvement. :ok:

The only thing I would say to you though, if you're considering a possible commute from Cardiff every day. Be prepared for a very early start if you hope to beat the M4/Newport/Cwmbran traffic and get there on time for the 0830 start! Could be difficult for the 16 weeks (minimum) that you'll be commuting for the ATC Basic and ADI courses.
If you are self-funding, I would suggest that you consider budgeting for HOTAC while you're on the course. Believe me - given the traffic in that area during morning and evening peak periods, you'll appreciate it.
The college have negotiated special discounted rates at the Holiday Inn Express just off M4/J28 in Newport, so that should make it a little bit more palatable to consider.
I know it's an extra expense that you'll probably prefer to dismiss, but take it from one who's been there: very early starts mixed with hard commuting and ATC training are not likely to lead to a successful outcome! You'll be putting yourself under a lot of unnecessary extra pressure during a time when you can ill-afford it.

Get in touch with the college themselves, as Dizzee has suggested. First-hand information is always very valuable.



Classicwings: I know somebody who has recently self-funded a Basic/ADI course at BAe, and I'm pretty sure the fees paid were nowhere near £25k. In fact, I'm certain it was much closer to £15k-£16k that was paid in the end.
Also, I know somebody else who has attended courses at both BAe and ASTAC, and who does not hesitate to recommend BAe when asked to choose.

Hope this helps.

[classicwings]

Thanks for your info, EastCoaster. Having obtained the prospectus for both BAe Cwmbran College and ASTAC, Cwmbran certainly seems the more professional outfit from first glance.

With regards to course costs, 16K sounds about right when I worked it out for undertaking both the UK Basic and Aerodrome (ADI) courses at Cwmbran College. However, It was only a few weeks later when i stumbled across the small print at the foot of the page which states 'Prices exclude VAT and accommodation........':bored: A figure closer to the 25K mark was then reached after recalculating the costs. They also state accommodation expenses are £355 per week to include Dinner, B&B at the Holiday Inn Express which also excludes VAT. I worked this out at about 6K for the 16 weeks inc VAT. Do you know if this is still the special discount rate they have with the college?

Thanking you in anticipation.

[Colonel Gimble]

Chaps

I do not wish to contradict what other posts say on this subject, I'm just sharing the benefit of my experience from doing my ADI course last July - September.

I was a self sponsor and fortunate enough to have an old friend who lived in the centre of Cardiff and they put me up for the 10 weeks. The drive from "home" to the college was fine at only 20 miles, the start time of 0830 kept me ahead of rush hour traffic.

Having been an ATSA at LTCC, it wasn't a particularly early start and lets face it, when you start live training you'll be keeping to shift hours anyway so 0830 start will mean a lie in.

As for not living with the other students on my course, it was not a problem. I was with a great bunch of people (you know who you are;)) and went to every group study session at the hotel where sponsored students are accommodated...... and frequently passed out in their rooms :ok:

To reiterate what I and others have said on the matter of BAe's facility - the instructors and staff are fantastic, supportive, friendly and their proffesionalism can not be questioned.

The facilities are as good as any other ATC college and infact BAe are bringing their 270 degree tower simulator online shortly. I saw this in action as I finnished my course and it is very impressive.

Cointreaus all round

The Colonel

[EastCoaster]

Classicwings

You could be right with your figures. From what I can remember, the rate that has been negotiated with the hotel is £45 per night (which includes your breakfast in the morning). If you don't live too far away or you know somebody who lives nearby, check out at weekends to reduce the cost. You literally end up living out of a suitcase though, as you can't leave all of your stuff in the hotel room because you're unlikely to get the same room the following week! Might be worth it to save £90 per week though (not to mention the £30 for the meal vouchers for Friday and Saturday evenings) .

As the hotel doesn't have a dedicated restaurant a separate arrangement has been made with the Woodpecker (at least I think that's what it's called!) next door for evening meals. These are valued at £15 per night, paid for with vouchers obtained daily from the hotel reception - obviously, the hotel bills the college for these as well.

As far as lunch goes, the college has contracted a catering firm to supply these: you place your order with the college receptionist by 10am daily (menu's at reception to help with choosing), and your lunch is delivered to the college anytime between midday and 1pm. The budget for the lunch order is somewhere in the region of £4 or £5, I think. Doesn't sound like a whole lot, I know, but believe me it's enough to get a good lunch of, say, sandwich/baked potato, crisps, fruit salad and a couple of cans of soft drink. I think they might require COD from self-funding students though, so be prepared to have to pay when your order arrives.

There are a couple of water chillers in the students' common room, so I wouldn't waste the allowance buying bottled water (bring your own bottle and just keep refilling it), and there are snack and soft drinks vending machines also. There is a kitchenette with kettles and a fridge for students' use, but you'll need to bring your own tea/coffee, milk and sugar.

[classicwings]

EastCoaster

Thanks for your info concerning the domestic side of the college facilities/ arrangements. As I am not local to the South Wales area coming from Cambs this is very useful for me to know before reaching into my pocket for my cheque book.......

More of interest to me at the moment before making my decision to attend the college however are the prospects of finding suitable employment on completion of the course. As I am not currently an Assistant working at an aerodrome I will be approaching (non- NATS) ATC units to commence on the job training from fresh - hopefully armed with a student ATCO licence. I am just wondering if the staff at Cwmbran College are good at advising you on suitable opportunities/openings at regional aerodromes/airports or is this something they expect you to pursue yourself?

Did you have an ATC background prior to attending the college or did you come into the profession new yourself? Also I am aware that they hold Aptitude testing days which are around the £350 mark to attend. I'm led to believe this is a highly recommended exercise to undertake if you have little or no ATC experience, and it also gives you a chance to have a look round the college facilities. Did you attend this test day?

Thanx again,

Classic Wings.

[ATCO Fred]

Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak
hasn't Eleanor flounced off to be a very important person at Filton, dragging her bagpipes behind her?

Not since last week when she was seen at the college by some of the current students there.

You always heard Eleanor before you saw here - 2 dozen keys hanging round here neck!:E

Fred

[niknak]

Those will be the keys to the cells and dungens then.......:E

I'd been told by a college source that she was off to Filton to become the ATC Manager, obviously not.

[Under_the_radar]

The only thing I would say about the aptitude tests are that they are run by the same company who then takes the money off you for the course, not sure they are going to be massively useful as they are a business after all!

Incidentally it's the dragonfly not the woodpecker, if it actually matters!

[sr562]

I cannot agree with the colonel more. I have been in the same position and took some good advice from him. I went to ASTAC which was mainly due to the timing of the courses than anything else as I done it on annual leave.
From what i heard of Cwmbran and my experience at ASTAC i dont think there is much difference between them, ASTAC also have a 270 degree sim due to go live and the instructors and staff were helpful and supportive too.

ASTAC also run a sponsorship scheme where they will pay for your ADI rating. You have to work as a blippy for a bit before hand, however if you have no previous experience this might be worthwhile to get a feel for the job. I dont think the pay is great tho.

[EastCoaster]

Classicwings,

Apologies for the delay in responding to your question, been a bit mad here the last few days!!

I was already a qualified controller when I first attended the college in Cwmbran, so I'm afraid I can't answer your questions from any experience of my own. I do, however, know one or two people who have done the Aptitude test and have found it very useful, although it was employer-sponsored!

Regarding finding work placement for post-course OJT, don't expect the college staff to do the running around for you. Internet facilities are provided in the Students' Common Room (although connectivity can be a bit hit-and-miss; and there's always a queue for the use of any of the 3 PCs at peak times, i.e. during scheduled breaks) as well as industry journals and magazines. Don't forget, you're likely to be on the course with students from all over the country, so there'll always be someone with a bit of insider info/gossip that could be worth following up on. Also, as invariably happens, if anyone hears about any possibility of positions becoming available, that info usually finds it's way to those who are in the market.
Basically though, the onus is on you to help yourself where finding a position is concerned. So get your list of SATCOs/MATs out and starting firing off those CVs and letters of application. You will get some assistance from the staff and other students, but don't forget that they have other responsibilities.

I'll put it this way: of the two courses that were running last time I was there (probably somewhere in the region of 24 or so students, of whom a large number were self-sponsoring, and not just ex-mil types) I think only two individuals finished the course(s) without a firm offer of employment and completion of training. I'm almost positive that has now been reduced to one, and it's not that long since I was there.
You'll only get out of it though what you're willing to put in.

Good luck :ok:

P.S. If you have a Wi-Fi enabled laptop, bring it with you. The college will provide you with the password for their public network so that you can access the internet to hunt for those jobs from the classroom or the common room, without having to try and beat the rush for the PCs! Connection speeds are perfectly sufficient for general browsing and emailing, but don't try to hog the bandwidth by trying to download large files or watch any streaming media! Wouldn't be very fair on the other network users, and I'm not sure the system could handle it!

[broken headset]

I've been to both the NATS college in Bournemouth and the Bae college in Wales.
My advice is that the college is unimportant, if you really want to be an Air Traffic Controller you need to go where ever is needed and take whatever **** they give you to get that yellow license. There is only one person who can get you a license and that's you, not your intructor, mentor or course mates.
If it's what you want to do get your application in to NATS or try to get a job as an assistant at a regional airport. Local (non NATS) airports sometimes employ local youngsters and train them as they are more likely to stay. My employer uses the NATS apptitude tests and interviews for its trainee selection
I'm not sure paying for your own Aerodrome endorsement will get you any closer to being employed as you're still unproven and will only have obtained a sizeable debt. If anything being an assistant first will help improve your technical knowledge and be more useful.

[happ1ness]

Just out of interest how many instructors are there at the college and is there a regular turn over of staff?

[Lifes2good]

So where is Eleanor now? Did she get the job at Filton or is she still at the college?

[Dizzee Rascal]

She was at Cwmbran yesterday.