Sabre and Super Sabre - why "re"?

[India Four Two]

Does anyone know why the F-86 and the F-100 use the UK spelling of "sabre", rather than "saber"?

[diginagain]

AFAIK, F-68 and F-100 are the official US designations. The names were applied by a NATO committee to ease reporting of aircraft across the disparate nations making up NATO.

(Disclaimer - this is the explanation given to me when I was a mere lad, and spotter)

[canard68]

Its just the US spelling like center and centre.

[India Four Two]

Its just the US spelling like center and centre.

Canard, that's my point. I would have expected the name to be F-86 Saber, but it isn't. For example, the USAF museum uses the name Sabre http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=274

Of course, there is also the Buffalo Sabres hockey team, but at least in this case , there was a historical connection with Quebec.

[Brewster Buffalo]

F-86 Sabre - the operational record - Robert Jackson

When the 1st Fighter Group (USAF) took delivery of its first F-86As, the North American fighter was an aircraft without a name. One of the group's first acts was to sponsor a competition to find a suitable one. Seventy eight names were submitted and one stood out from the rest. On 4 March 1949 the North American F-86 was officially named the SabreWell that is the background to how the name was selected but not the spelling.
Perhaps the person suggesting Saber wrote Sabre by mistake instead?

[Capot]

Isn't sabre an alternative American spelling, alongside saber?

As a French "loan word" it might well retain its spelling in the USA, as many others do, especially when used in the context of a weapon such as a fighter aircraft.

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

What's ironic is that they didn't call it the Supre Sabre.

[eagle 86]

Sabre is a proper noun that is the name of a type of sword and as such should always start with upper case "S" and most properly not be corrupted from the original spelling when "borrowed" from the originating language in this case french. Whereas "centre" for instance is a common noun and protocols re the change of spelling are probably not as firmly held.
Semantics and in today's world where proper regard for good language, spelling and sentence construction doesn't seem to matter all that much probably is meaningless to most people.
GAGS
E86
PS The nickname for the Sabre in RAAF service was "Sword".

[denis555]

Personally I think the F 86 Sabre was one of the most beautiful early jset fighter designs. It also influenced the car industry ( especially GM ) who produced a 1951 concept car that stretched the name even further even further by calling it the 'Le Sabre' - The subsequent production Buick Le Sabres of 1957 had even bigger fins than the F86...

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Buick_LeSabre_1959_1.JPG/250px-Buick_LeSabre_1959_1.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Buick_LeSabre_1959_1.JPG)
1959 LeSabre 2-door hardtop



...and that's just the front :eek:

[India Four Two]

Great pictures of the 1951 LeSabre concept car here:

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Buick/buick1950-1959.html

The front has a fake air intake that looks like it could have come from a jet, and of course at the back, to paraphrase Colonel Kurtz, "the fins, the fins" :eek:

It's interesting that GM decided that LeSabre was one word.

Further thread creep. GM indulges in "badge engineering" like BMC used to do with Austin and Morris. So the Oldsmobile equivalent of the LeSabre was called, wait for it, the Cutlass.

I used to own an early 90s Cutlass station wagon, which my kids were allowed to drive. They were embarrassed to be seen in "The Thing" as they referred to it. They told me years later that they used to leave it unlocked, hoping someone would steal it! No such luck.

P.S. I've just noticed there is an aviation link at the end of the page referenced above, which will take you to scanned pages of ads from the April 1930 Candian Aviation magazine

[con-pilot]

Just a point of interest, all the corporate aircraft named after the F-86 also built by North American were called Sabreliners. The Sabre 40, 60, 75, 80 and the 65.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Following the sword theme leads us to the Vought F7U Cutlass which first flew in 1948 for the United States Navy amongst its problems were

- short range
- maintenance intensive with a complicated hydraulic system
- weak landing gear
- unreliable ejection seat
- underpowered (nicknamed the Gutlass Cutlass)
- engine prone to flame out in rain

despite this some 300 were produced but you won't be surprised to hear that over a quarter were lost or involved in serious accidents..

More here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F7U_Cutlass

[denis555]

The front has a fake air intake that looks like it could have come from a jet, and of course at the back, to paraphrase Colonel Kurtz, "the fins, the fins" :eek:I also read that the fins were based on the fins of a P 38 Lightning that Earl had seen for the first time many years ago and was so impressed he waited 10 years to replicate them (almost) in the leSabre. Squint and you can seee them.

[twochai]

Because it was (is) correct?? :=

[India Four Two]

Because it was (is) correct??
Well, where you and I are from it is, but south of the border, there seems to be some ambivalence. I've been doing some research since I first posted.

Military-oriented sources seem to favor/favour "saber", but not exclusively.

Wikipedia is schizophrenic, even within the same article.

I haven't found any definitive official sites, but I'll keep looking.

[WHBM]

American Airlines' reservation system is called "Sabre". I know it's a contrived acronym but American, of all operators, would not have gone for an un-American spelling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_(computer_system)

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

I have lived in the US and visit there frequently. As a matter of fact, "-re" is not exclusively British. You may be surprised how often you see words like 'centre' and 'theatre' spelt with the "-re" in the US. In America they're a bit less hard and fast over such 'rules' than we are. You even sometimes see both "-or/-our" combinations, eg. harbour, parlour.......

[India Four Two]

GCC,

My experience has been different from yours. I've found it very rare to see UK spellings in the US, except when some business wants to be cute and "Olde Worlde". Perhaps it depends on which part of the US. Most of my travels have been west of the Mississippi, including three years in Houston.

I have also noticed a tendency in Canada over the last ten years for new businesses to adopt US spellings, particularly "Center".

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

You may be surprised how often you see words like 'centre' and 'theatre' spelt with the "-re" in the US. In America they're a bit less hard and fast over such 'rules' than we are.Generally that would be a "marketing thing", a bit like Kountry Kitchen etc := := :=


...you know who you are :*

back to airplanes, I'll add the Delta Dagger :8



(c'mon. There are plenty more left)

[Fareastdriver]

Getting back to fins. General Motors never put decent fins on their cars, they were always canted and flat. Chrysler started it in 1957 with two styles. One a Phantom lookalike and the other with a big sweep like the Vampire T11's fin fairing. When I used to drive a 57 Dodge with stubby fins it used to try and turn into wind if you hit a strong crosswind.

[Brewster Buffalo]

Getting back to sharp instruments...:E

North American XF-108 Rapier long range high speed interceptor
(cancelled 1959 but lead onto the A-5 Vigilante)

[India Four Two]

And of course the DA-20 Katana and the Supermarine Scimitar.

Scottish Aviation missed a grand marketing opportunity - a ground attack aircraft called the Claymore ;)

[treadigraph]

Rockwell B-1 Lancer...

Did no one name anything "Epee"?

I just found an Excalibur, but I think best left ungoogled.....

[evansb]

Perhaps this is the first aircraft to be called the Sabre, by Folland.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/Folland-Sabre2.jpg

[twochai]

The Folland 43/37 was apparently built as an engine 'test bed'; one of the engines tested was the Napier Sabre, which would be consistent with the nacelle configuration and details.

[denis555]

Napier Sabre – I had forgotten about that – as well as the Napier Dagger and the Napier Rapier – a whole box full of knives – all that’s missing is the bread knife!

[India Four Two]

Talking of knives, the Douglas X-3 Stiletto actually looked like one.

http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/stiletto.htm

[eagle 86]

It isn't British its French.
GAGS
E86