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CJ1234
29th May 2008, 10:32
It seems that XXX have had an appalling fuel saving record over the years. Indeed, with a barrel of oil costing around $130, they've only just started telling crews to save fuel.

First question: how do other airlines save fuel? Which methods do airlines employ to save fuel?

Second question: How long have airlines (i'm mainly thinking of airlines in UK) been saving fuel? I imagine someone like Ryanair having saving fuel since the dawn of time.

Cheers

CJ

FE Hoppy
29th May 2008, 11:11
1) cost index, justification of extra fuel above a certain threshold. Tankering when appropriate, cleaning the aeroplane, aft CofG................

2) A very long time

Old Fella
29th May 2008, 11:23
One of the best ways to save fuel is to maintain the speed at the appropriate number for your weight and cruising level by reducing thrust until you can step climb as soon as able. Plan the descent to give the best glide distance before having to dirty up for the approach, and all those other things that FE Hoppy mentioned.

Cardinal
29th May 2008, 18:23
On our A320s:

1) Dispatch bent, old, fuel thirsty tail numbers to closer destinations, when possible.

2) Removed unused galley carts and ovens.

3) Cut back on seatback magazines.

4) Empty Lavs on every turnaround, service water to 50% on shorter flights.

5) Single Engine Taxi, out and in.

6) No APU on taxi in, leave engine running until ground power applied, follow wtih ground air.

7) Strict adherence to a very low cost index.

9) Directional pushbacks, and delay engine start until towbar almost disconnected.

10) Lower contingency fuel

11) Cargo heat off/cold unless its needed.

12) Think twice and three times about speed brake usage.

13) Autobrakes with idle reverse.

14) Generate aditional idle path descents, after "recruising" the Airbus FMGS.

15) Pay close attention to fixing performance related MELs (packs, fairings, etc)

I'm sure there's more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

rcl7700
29th May 2008, 19:19
All sounds familiar except the cargo on cold. Why is that?
Thanks

rcl

beachbumflyer
29th May 2008, 19:23
Cardinal,

Do not paint the aircraft

Max Angle
29th May 2008, 19:35
It seems that XXX have had an appalling fuel saving record over the years. Indeed, with a barrel of oil costing around $130, they've only just started telling crews to save fuel.

Hmm, well I've worked for BD for a long time and fuel saving has been a fairly hot topic for years. Cost index has fallen slowly over the last few years, single engine taxi in has been SOP for years and we have been gently encouraged to take sector fuel only for as long as I can remember. There is no doubt that in the last few months this has become a lot more urgent as it has for every airline and there are other fuel saving measures in the pipeline.

Cardinal
29th May 2008, 23:03
Cold cargo is supposed to save 3 lbs/hr, per our company and Airbus.

rcl7700
29th May 2008, 23:33
Interesting. Is bleed air used to heat the cargo hold up?

rcl

Cardinal
30th May 2008, 00:52
Yes. It's just a small load that the packs don't have to carry, and thus the tiny but apparently measurable fuel savings. Kinda sad we're even talking about it, really. Probably falls under the "desparate measures" category.

rcl7700
30th May 2008, 02:35
Lots of things are sad these days, but we don't have too many choices. We are always looking for new ways to save, even if it's only drops, so I was wondering what was behind this cold cargo deal. Thanks

rcl

CJ1234
30th May 2008, 17:33
cardinal (or anyone)

if you do single engine taxi, don't you have to keep APU running? What's fuel saving about that?

Deep and fast
30th May 2008, 21:16
It seems after a raft of sensible measures, the latest will be landing with a reduced flap setting where perfomance allows. I'm more than happy to assist in saving the planet.
Peace man ;)

Cardinal
30th May 2008, 21:37
A loaded A320 APU (bleed + elec) will burn 275/hr, versus a CFM unloaded 700/hr, or 900/hr (bleed + elec)

barit1
31st May 2008, 02:53
Nobody has mentioned slipping a few quid (or a few ales) to our friends in ATC. :}:eek:

FE Hoppy
31st May 2008, 08:19
Nobody has mentioned slipping a few quid (or a few ales) to our friends in ATC.

And that is where the best savings can be made!!

Epsilon minus
31st May 2008, 09:25
A good start would be to contact me or
read and understand TGL44 1.255 and 1.295 1.297
Get a good flight planning system
Review your OM D3 training of ground ops/dispatchers is vital. If you dont do this start now.
Review your SOP's especially the use of reverse thrust on landing, use of the APU, reduce that dead weight ie all those manuals that are carried around. If you added up the weight of manuals for every commercial aircraft in the UK the total would be many tonnes.
Get a class 1 EFB
Use three shire horses to tow the aircraft to the active runway holding point (only joking though green peace may run with this - claim it was their idea)
But, and just a reminder, contact me. I need the work now. ;)
Regards
EM

Jo90
31st May 2008, 17:10
Make every effort to optimise your TOD point, don't just assume the FMC knows best.

Penalty on a 757 averages 8 kg per mile whether you start down too early or too late.

xxgunnerxx
31st May 2008, 19:17
Interesting how some pilots have to fly now days in the states: http://flightlevel390..com/2008_05_01_archive.html (http://flightlevel390.*************/2008_05_01_archive.html) (Part 1+2) add ******** in between the periods.

j_davey
31st May 2008, 19:33
wow, somebody should mention all the above to a dlh captain who took 11,500kg fuel for a short dub-Fra hop even tho his flighplan stated a loss of 81 dollars/ton extra fuel! It must have been raining somewhere :-/


John.

CJ1234
31st May 2008, 22:10
Make every effort to optimise your TOD point, don't just assume the FMC knows best.

Penalty on a 757 averages 8 kg per mile whether you start down too early or too late.
I don't understand this post (me thicko). Can you explain?

:confused:

nnc0
1st Jun 2008, 04:30
Re Single Engine Taxi.

On the Taxi Out it's discretionary but we're only realizing less than 20% in practice. Crews say the initial thrust requirement is too high (40%+ N1) and in a crowded gate area thats a safety issue - fair enough. They also say it's too hard to manouevre on 1 eng. Not sure I buy that one. The older guys say it's easy enough once you have a few under your belt.

Both of the above lead me think towing procedures might actually be improved. Tow the fin out of the gate area and to a line up point where they see the taxi route / lineup.

Scotteo
2nd Jun 2008, 05:51
My lecturer always love to stress that to save fuel you must "reduce drag"

This can be done loads of ways, most of which are to do with design of the aircarft such as wing tips, smaller cross sectional areas, clean frames, blah blah blah

Another good way of reducing fuel burn is good airmanship; sticking to the aircrafts best climb speed, cruise speed, glide approaches, keeping the aircraft in trim and insync with relative airflow.

And of course I can't forget reducing weight, however this can get a little silly (as i'm sure we'll see in the future) with airlines having their pilots shave their moustaches off in order to save the money in fuel.

barit1
2nd Jun 2008, 13:41
Since turbine engines are very inefficient at idle, it has been suggested from time to time that pulling the plug on one donk during descent might be worthwhile. Of course then there's the matter of restarting it when the workload is already high, "Plan B" if it doesn't start, OEI go-arounds, etc. :ugh:

But it would help keep the front office awake.