CAREFUL!!! Adding to your FAA piggyback licence

[Sam Rutherford]

I have just become aware of something I have not heard about before.

If you seek to add anything FAA to your 'piggyback' licence, you need to have a licence verification (the same as when you apply for FAA licence in the first place) valid for the day you do any check. This is for FAA cpl, IR etc.

You also need to have satisfied, exactly, the FAA ppl experience (hours night + 10 landings, long nav of a certain distance etc.).

I thought the letter, particularly, was only to get the licence in the first place, but you need it each time you want to add to...

If you are not interested in 'upgrading', then no worries. If you are, hopefully you are now pre-warned to get this letter sorted out - it's valid for six months from date of issue.

Safe flights, Sam.

[IO540]

That's why one should always do a standalone FAA license, not a piggyback one.

The piggybacks became trendy when you could get it done while remaining in the UK. This has not been possible for some years.

Now it's just a house of cards.

[Mike Cross]

While not disagreeeing with IO540 on the current state of play, it is an ICAO requirement for foreign licenses to be "rendered valid".

[IO540]

it is an ICAO requirement for foreign licenses to be "rendered valid".

True, and it's funny to observe that the USA and UK do this more or less fully, while protectionist Europe more or less ignores this requirement - especially for its own citizens.

[dublinpilot]

It depends on what you want it for. If your only interest in an FAA certificate is so that you can rent an aircraft and do a bit of flying when on holidays in the USA every couple of year, then the piggy back certificate is perfect for the job.

It eliminates the need for two medicals.

If you regularly fly an N reg aircraft or you want to start adding ratings to the FAA cert but not to your primiary licence, then that's different, and you should probably do the stand alone FAA certificate.

Horses for courses really.

[Sam Rutherford]

Dublinpilot - precisely!

It's just a warning for those wanting to take their piggyback further (and even then, you just need the letter).

So, either keep it simple, or get the letter (GBP18, two faxes, and about 3 weeks wait).

Sam.

[Julian]

This is for FAA cpl, IR etc.



If you obtain the FAA CPL then it is licence in its own right and not a piggyback licence.

J.

[421C]

You also have to go through the verification process to get the ICAO English language proficiency added to an FAA based-on certificate. If you have a standalone one, it's zero effort.

I do agree with IO540, a standalone FAA certificate has a lot less risk and hassle in the long-run then the deceptively 'easy' based-on route.

[BackPacker]

You also have to go through the verification process to get the ICAO English language proficiency added to an FAA based-on certificate.

There was a discussion here about a week or two ago. Someone, I think Bose-X, called the FAA about it and the consensus was that if your original JAA license showed your ICAO English Language Proficiency, then it was not necessary to get your FAA based-on PPL changed to show it too.

Which is a good thing, because that would probably mean another validation letter from the CAA plus the associated charges, and a visit to an FDSO.

[chrisbl]

I have a standalone FAA CPL. I did it using my piggyback PPL for the training and checkride. However I was required to have a validation letter to ensure the authenticity of my piggyback for the checkride.

Now I have the standalone CPL and a piggyback PPL, each on their own bit of plastic and each with their own certificate number.

[Keygrip]

chrisbl - I wasn't aware that (as with JAA) you could have more than one pilot licence issued under Federal regulations.

I would expect - but would have to find the enthusiasm to look it up in the FAR-AIM - that your stand alone CPL has superceeded your (now invalid) "piggy back".

"Piggy backs" are "licence validations" for those who DO NOT hold an FAA licence - are they not?

[Julian]

Keygrip is right, once you obtain your CPL your PPL becomes invalid. I got caught out as I did my CPL multi first and they took my SE privleges off me (my PPL) so I was only able to hire a multi until I passed my CPL SE - expensive mistake!!!!

J.

[BackPacker]

once you obtain your CPL your PPL becomes invalid. I got caught out as I did my CPL multi first and they took my SE privleges off me (my PPL) so I was only able to hire a multi until I passed my CPL SE - expensive mistake!!!!

In that particular case, would it not have been a possibility to add the SEP rating to your CPL with the restriction "PPL privileges only" or something like that?

[Fuji Abound]

So if you have a FAA piggybacked on your CAA (not EASA or JAA) license and wish to convert to a standalone FAA what is involved?

If your CAA license has an IR and MEP what are the implications?

Are there any implications for "type" ratings - retractable, VP, tailwheel, G-1000 and FADEC?

[IO540]

An FAA standalone PPL is always: meeting the experience & training requirements, oral, written, checkride.

To convert any ICAO IR to an FAA IR, you have to meet the experience & training requirements, and the foreign pilot IR written plus a checkride.

Both the above require a signoff from a CFI/CFII (respectively) stating you are ready to do the written, and then another signoff stating you are ready to do the checkride.

Retractable/VP is a high perf logbook signoff.

Tailwheel likewise I think.

G1000/FADEC has no legal training/signoff requirements (same as here) but (as usual) the insurance company may have a different view.

I hope I got the above right!

[Julian]

In that particular case, would it not have been a possibility to add the SEP rating to your CPL with the restriction "PPL privileges only" or something like that?

Apparently not, once you obtain a CPL it renders your piggyback licence invalid! I dont the exact in and outs of that but that is what happened. The smart move would have been to do the CPL SE first, Hey ho, you live and learn.

IO, yes that how I understand it as well, with the G1000 all the FBO I dealt with stated they wanted approx 5 hours conversion (could be more or less depending how well you grasped it). Some pilots have difficulty grasping the concepts. I did about 5 hours(2 sim, 3 in aircraft) but in that also covered IFR so did not have any restrictions placed on me.

J.

[172driver]

I hope I got the above right!

Yes, you have :ok:

In addition, high-performance ( > 200hp) and pressurized a/c are also logbook endorsements.

[Fuji Abound]

Thanks.

To be clear:

1. So if you already have a CAA PPL and night or IR presumably you have met the experience and training requirments. Is it therefore the case of doing the oral exam, written exam, and check ride (FAA GFT equivalent),

2. With a CAA IR presumably you have met the training and experience requirments, so it is foreign pilot written and check ride,

3. If you already have CAA endorsements in your log book for retractable and VP do these carry over as an automatic sign off,

4. What about MEP?

[IO540]

So if you already have a CAA PPL and night or IR presumably you have met the experience and training requirments

Almost certainly, but AFAIK it's possible to get a Euro IR and not have done the 250nm dual x/c IFR (airways) flight which needs to have 3 different approaches done on it.

This kind of stuff catches a lot of UK pilots doing the FAA PPL or CPL. There are some extra night flights for the PPL which you won't have done in the PPL NQ/NR.

And the CPL needs a solo VFR x/c flight with 3 landings which TBH one would rarely do in normal flying on the same day... but the FARs don't specify "on the same day". And we are into the realm of grey areas and it is down to the particular examiner.

[englishal]

Apparently not, once you obtain a CPL it renders your piggyback licence invalid! I dont the exact in and outs of that but that is what happened.
It does, but the examiner could have endorsed the CPL with "SE Private Privileges based on foreign licence blah blah" I think!

With a CAA IR presumably you have met the training and experience requirments, so it is foreign pilot written and check ride,

Actually you need to do the proper FAA IR paper, not the Instrument Foreign Pilot one to meet all the FAA requirements.

[Fuji Abound]

Actually you need to do the proper FAA IR paper, not the Instrument Foreign Pilot one to meet all the FAA requirements.

I have been told by one good source that is not so (not that they are correct). There seems to be conflicting views? Is the conflict anything to do with whether you piggyback the IR or it is a stand alone FAA?

Anyone any ideas on the MEP side of things?

Sorry, I am still a bit confused on the stand alone requirements.

Forgetting the IR for the moment, with a CAA PPL, you do the FAA written and oral and the flight test - is there anything else you MUST have in your log book for the grant of an FAA stand alone PPL?

In terms of documentation it seems we are agree you need the letter of authorisation from the CAA?

Then, in so far as the IR is concerned it seems to me you do the written, the flight test and show you have one dual airways of 250nm with three different approaches in your log (done on your CAA license) and you are done -correct?

[S-Works]

To convert any ICAO IR to an FAA IR, you have to meet the experience & training requirements, and the foreign pilot IR written plus a checkride.

No if you want a full FAA IR you do the full exam and the checkride not the foreign pilot exam. If you want a validation of your foreign IR you do the foreign pilot written exam. 50 questions and then do the usual hoops for the validation paperwork and then head to the states for another FSDO visit.

[englishal]

If you have a piggyback FAA licence based upon your foreign licence, then you can use all the ratings on your foreign licence on the FAA one, the only difference being that to use the IR you must pass the IFP (Instrument Foreign Pilot) paper. No flight test required. You can also add stand alone FAA ratings to it.....

To add an FAA IR - full blown version - to a piggy back licence, you need to meet all the requirements for the IR as detailed in the FARs AS WELL AS meeting all the requirements for the PPL. This includes passing the IR paper.

If you have a piggyback licence, to add any stand alone FAA rating (i.e. "US Test Passed"), you must meet ALL the requirements for a) the full FAA PPL and b) the rating. So for example to add the FAA IR to an FAA Piggyback licence, you must meet all the requirements for the issue of FAA PPL, e.g. night flying, cross country experience etc., as well as ALL the requirements for the FAA IR - route by air traffic control directed routing, endorsements and recent experience etc.....

To do a standalone FAA PPL you must meet all the requirements for the FAA PPL, including ground exams, instructor endorsements flight experience etc., and then must pass the oral and flight test. The FAR/AIM details these.

To do a standalone FAA CPL same applies, but for the CPL requirements.

[IO540]

Forgetting the IR for the moment, with a CAA PPL, you do the FAA written and oral and the flight test - is there anything else you MUST have in your log book for the grant of an FAA stand alone PPL?

You need to meet the training requirements - they are in the FAR/AIM. I think Fuji (knowing you) you will meet these many times over but it needs to be stated :)

In terms of documentation it seems we are agree you need the letter of authorisation from the CAA?

Not if doing a standalone FAA PPL. The CAA is not involved at all.

Then, in so far as the IR is concerned it seems to me you do the written, the flight test and show you have one dual airways of 250nm with three different approaches in your log (done on your CAA license) and you are done -correct?

As for the PPL - check the FAR/AIM.

All flights anywhere in the world are allowable, including instructional ones.