who would fly in a place like this?

[danwindterland]

Is it just me or is the attitude of the airfield owner to the club members a bit strange? Do i want to give owners like this my custom? Perhaps after years of parrying noise complains, he has had enough now that he has moved in above the airfield....
As for the section on security...

Quotes from our newsletter...

XXX AIRFIELD CHRONICLES MINI NEWSLETTER SUMMER 2008


AIRFIELD OPENING TIMES

For various reasons the airfield will now be closing at 18:00 hrs during the week. It had become obvious that the amount of activity did not warrant paying a staff member to sit for several unproductive hours most evenings. We have been monitoring the situation since last year and have taken the decision that it is just too expensive to staff this position past 18:00hrs given the lack of use. Looking at other airfields it seems that many are now closing at 17:00 or 18:00 and this may be one of the reasons for the lack of activity here. We will continue to remain open though until 20:00 hrs Saturdays and Sundays throughout the summer. Should there be an out of hours requirement for aircraft owned and based on the airfield this will need to be pre-booked giving 24 hours advance notice to ops. All aircraft movements have to be recorded (even if you are doing one circuit!) so your planned departure and arrival time and any destination will need to be given to ops. Car parking arrangements will necessitate parking in the lay-by as the gates will automatically close at 1900hrs. Authorisation forms will need to be filled in although we are looking at using emails for this purpose. Fuel will not be available outside normal opening times as all airfield buildings will be closed. Due to hangar door damage in the past it is doubtful that the concertina hangar doors will be able to be used out of hours as if hangar doors are broken and unable to be closed the security of the hangar contents will be compromised overnight. Anyone with an aircraft hangared will have to sign and agree that in any event they will ensure that the hangar doors will be closed and serviceable after use out of hours or will provide overnight security if the doors cannot be closed. Doors will be checked serviceable at airfield close and any unserviceability will have to be paid for by those who used the doors out of hours. Should out of hours use be required it will only be granted for arrivals or departures with no circuits or training of any kind in or above the ATZ. Whilst I appreciate that the area above our ATZ is open air space I do not want to have to field noise complaints caused by pilots carrying out aerobatic manoeuvres in the overhead during the evenings. I will monitor the out of hours situation but must emphasise that I reserve the right to deny anyone using the airfield out of hours if I have good reason to consider doing so.

CESSNA 172

I do appreciate that the weather has not been that good of late but the owner of the C172 has indicated that if we do not increase utilisation of this very nice aircraft he will have to take it away. I would therefore ask that you all consider doing a check flight on this aircraft, as it will also give you greater flexibility of hire. Do not forget that if you have to do a check flight with an instructor for any reason you can use this opportunity to convert onto the C172 at the same time.



CARS LEFT OVERNIGHT

A couple of weeks ago when I was doing a close down security check I noticed that a blue car had been left in the disabled/staff car park. To cut a four-hour story short, I could not find the owner and the incident was upgraded to a possible terrorist threat. I realise that this last statement will bring a smile to the faces of most as you who do not see XXX in anyway connected with terrorism, but you would be wrong. Intelligence exists that has led the authorities to mark XXX airfield as a significant threat location. We are visited twice a day by the police specifically to ensure that security has not been breached in any way and to check on any possible terrorist threat. Some may still be laughing, but had the checks, including me going through hours of CCTV footage (eventually showing the movements of these people out of their car and into a helicopter) not been done, it could have resulted in the car being removed and destroyed, or blown up by controlled explosion on the spot. I have had an after incident meeting with the relevant authorities and I just pass on to you that if you do not tell us that you are leaving your car in the car park (also leave your keys and a 24 hour contact number) your car could be destroyed.



REFUELLING AND SECURING AIRCRAFT AFTER USE

I am getting an increase in the number of pilots saying how fed up they are with aircraft being left short of fuel after a previous hire. I remind all pilots that it is a requirement to refuel aircraft to tabs after flight and if it is the last flight of the day to ensure that it is covered up with controls locked and in the case of the 172; tied down.



AIRCRAFT DAMAGE

You may remember that I wrote about “G-XXX” whereby the aircraft wing leading edge was very badly damaged by someone slamming it into the fuel vent pipe on the apron. They knew that they had done it, but lacked the brains and guts to report it. G-XXY has also been damaged several times by careless handling on the ground and the owner is considering a deposit being taken that will be handed back when the aircraft is returned in the same state that it was taken.


comments? Me? i am taking my flying elsewhere if spoken to like that.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Perfectly reasonable if you ask me.

Most PPL's have no concept of how much nonsense has to go on behind the scenes to allow them to continue their hobby. That was a perfectly acceptable and well put letter to try and make life a bit easier for all.

Instead of getting all uppity about it, why don't you follow the advice given. Someone has to be the responsible adult and after having spent a few years dealing with all the cr*p caused by members and visitors. I know exactly where this letter is coming from.

If you don't want to play by the rules laid down by the person who has to look after it all, then by all means go somewhere else. Why not start your own licensed field and deal with all of this sort of stuff, then come on here and with your own letter. I'll bet it'll be an awful lot less polite.

[civil aviation]

:D Well said !

I am not in the aviation business but far too many people now presume that by spending a bit of money they acquire the right to do exactly as they please on and with other people's property. When challenged or sanctioned, these tossers are never wrong but simply complain or whinge like the above.

Is it any wonder the country is a deteriorating state?

Every business is suffering from such customers but running a flight training organistion must be a real nightmare now.

[Put1992]

What exactly do you find a problem with this newsletter dan?

[172driver]

No comment re the airfield, but why are you trying to appropriate the screen name of a well known Pprune contributor (mainly in R&N) ? Trying to hide behind someone else, perchance ? :=

[BartV]

ROTFL!! Admit it, GA is DEAD!!!!!!!

Please close down XXX AIRFIELD and let the property developers bid on it, so these poor chaps can go on with their lives...

[BackPacker]

If leaving your car, overnight, in a car park of all places is seen as a terrorist thread then I can only conclude Al Qaida has won.



Seriously, terrorism is about terrorizing people. Blowing up a car, in the middle of the night, in an otherwise empty parking lot with no people around, what's that going to accomplish for a terrorist? If I were a terrorist and wanted to blow up a car to terrorize people I can think of a few places that have a greater effect on public morale than an abandoned car park in the middle of the night.

Now the fact that the police was called to investigate an unusual event is fine. After all, it might have been a stolen car. But invoking the words "terrorist threat" and anti-terrorist legislation and countermeasures in this case is just plain wrong. Society should not fall for it this way.

[Rod1]

"Most PPL's have no concept of how much nonsense has to go on behind the scenes to allow them to continue their hobby."

Interesting. At your average farm strip there is very little "nonsense". I think people forget how simple this hobby can be by listening to too many jobs worths. For whatever reason, the newsletter does not paint a very favourable picture of being based at XXX and gives the impression that the writers get up and go has got up and gone. Perhaps not some ware you’d choose to spend money as it gives the impression it is on its last legs and strangled by bureaucracy.

Rod1

[mark sicknote]

Agreed Rod 1

If I were considering joining this club, I would certainly think twice.

i appreciate the difficulties faced buy many fields / clubs / FBOs, but publications such as this can be avoided by putting correct procedures and protocols in place from day one.

Best,

Sicknote
:ok:

[Say again s l o w l y]

Running a licenced field is a completely different proposition from an unlicenced grass strip.

The paperwork, inspections, fire gear, line painting, risk assessment, security, fuel etc.etc. The issues are numerous and have to be done properly.

It isn't just as simple as opening the doors and letting people get on with flying.

Is it over the top regulation? Of course, most of it is totally unnecessary, but that isn't down to the licencee, but the regulator. Address your whinges in their direction.

To be totally frank, unless you have been involved with a licenced field or FTO on a professional basis, then it is unlikely that you do actually have any clue what people have to do on a daily basis to allow you to continue with your hobby.

If you did, you wouldn't be on here whinging about it, that is for certain.

I used to get regular visits from the local special branch for instance. They just wanted to know what was going on and it was often just a chat, but they would be in for an hour or two and that stops you doing your primary function. As it was every couple of weks, it really could get in the way, but you just smile and get on with it as you don't need the extra hassle that they could cause you if they wanted to.

We ended up in a ruck with them over something and it tooks months to sort out. Huge amounts of time and stress went into it totally unnecessarily, but what can you do?

[scooter boy]

May I suggest a compromise whereby you can use the airfield when it is unlicensed provided an insurance indemnity agreement has been undertaken.
The owner/operator would need to be in agreement with this and you would need to have insurance in place.

This works well at several licensed tarmac airfields and may enable you to fly during some of the best hours of the day (at this time of year).

The "terrorist threat - blue car" thing sounds like common sense has left the equation here some time ago though...

Don't they know terrorists only drive beige Nissan Sunnys!

SB

[Rod1]

“Running a licenced field is a completely different proposition from an unlicenced grass strip.”

Never said it was similar. I was pointing out that for your average qualified PPL, you are probably wasting your money and time putting up with a lot of “nonsense” you do not need!

Most small airfields are licensed because in the UK (as opposed to the rest of Europe) you need to be licensed to train for certain qualifications. This rule is likely to be scraped early next year, and then the “jobs worths” will have a bit of a problem.

“To be totally frank, unless you have been involved with a licensed field or FTO on a professional basis, then it is unlikely that you do actually have any clue what people have to do on a daily basis to allow you to continue with your hobby.”

How incredibly condescending! There are airfields in the UK which are run by members groups and are licensed. I was involved in such a setup for several years, and despite not being a “professional” I had (and I accept I am 5 years out of date) a pretty good idea of the pain, thank you.

To get back to the point of the thread, the original “newsletter” would put 90% of potential customers, and probably some of the existing ones, off using XXX. This would lead to less flying, so the manager who is monitoring but not managing will get more negative, and close sooner, and put out more negative newsletters, which will eventually see the airfield go in a different direction.

A more enlightened approach would be to hold a meeting with his customers and suggest a number of ways to encourage evening flying. Possibly by arranging for aerobatic pilots to get assistance from the member of staff on duty, or reduce hire rates in the evening or any one of 50 other things. The newsletter gives the impression that the numbers had been looked at and the plug pulled with no input from the paying customer at all. It would therefore not be surprising that the customers would go to a more enlightened setup. This is especially true now, as the cost of fuel and maintenance is changing the complection of GA, from the old traditional spam can to the more efficient, lower fuel burn machines and more and more strips are popping up.

Rod1

[BackPacker]

I used to get regular visits from the local special branch for instance. They just wanted to know what was going on and it was often just a chat, but they would be in for an hour or two and that stops you doing your primary function. As it was every couple of weks, it really could get in the way, but you just smile and get on with it as you don't need the extra hassle that they could cause you if they wanted to.

Let me guess, They didn't pay for the coffee and biscuits either, did they?

Why is it that people who have nothing to do think that the same applies to others?

If these gentlemen had any consideration for you and your work they would do two things:
a. Show up unannounced, poke their head into the office and say "we are suchandsuch and here for a spot check. Mind if we look around?" and then let you get on with your normal business.
b. Setup a proper appointment a few days in advance, reserve time and do a proper audit. On that leaves both parties sweating but finishes on time.

Just showing up unannounced for a two-hour chat doesn't sound very productive to me. For neither party.

Is it over the top regulation? Of course, most of it is totally unnecessary, but that isn't down to the licencee, but the regulator.

I've been poking my head into the Oban thread every now and then, and we've also had several threads on high-viz jackets, and the feeling I get is that there's a lot of hiding behind the CAA to implement measures that are not at all required. In the example above, I don't think the CAA requires CCTV cameras to be pointed at the parking lot, in order to get the field licensed. But I bet that through some circuitous reasoning, possibly involving the t-word, the operator can make it appear as if the CAA or another authority requires it.

(Edited to say that another common entity to hide behind is the insurance.)

[jollyrog]

There's nothing wrong with rules and I don't see anything wrong with the rules in the newsletter.

What I would expect to see in a newsletter though are articles about flying at xxx airfield and photos of happy pilots at fly-outs, fly-ins, first solos and the like. A newsletter should be about the fun of the airfield, with the intention of keeping existing members and encouraging new ones.

The rules, as listed, would probably have been better communicated in a "notice to members" or similar. It's just housekeeping, not "news".

[Johnm]

Apart from the terrorism nonsense which is more about nutters in Government than it is about the airfield management in most cases, the rest of this seems to be enforcing common courtesy as far as I can see and if good manners were still the norm it wouldn't be necessary.

[EchoMike]

Personally, I think fences, ID and security cams at airfields are a wonderful idea.

Fences keep idiots out - example, you recall a few months ago four teenagers managed to kill themselves racing a BMW M5 down the runway at Jumbolair, which is where John Travolta lives. Proper fencing would have prevented that, or at least prevented it from happening on an airport.

I've had MY airplane broken into, evidently by kids looking to go on a joyride, kids who knew nothing about airplanes. They unscrewed the mag switch and tried to jump the wires, hoping to start the engine (not knowing that the mag switch grounds the mag wires to stop the engine), just like hotwiring a car. Had they been able to get this going. the LEAST that would have happened would have been for them to wreck my airplane. If they didn't die then, I'd have hunted them down later and killed them myself - slowly.

Good fences make good neighbors.

I've seen rental airplanes come back bent, scarred, trailing parts, leaking gasoline, and the renter walks away oblivious, hoping no one will notice. If you are at all fond of your airplane don't EVER rent it out - to ANYONE.

I've had LONG discussions with people from various alphabet agencies - they're getting paid by the government, and we HAVE to talk to them until they get tired of us and go away to annoy someone else.

I've also seen the 5 o'clock syndrome - people STOP BUYING at 5 PM, after that, if you are open, you are running a clubhouse, not a business.

I think the guy is right, he's set out a number of very common problems and set out his responses to them. If you cannot work within these parameters, either buy your own airfield or find another hobby.

Sorry if I sound cold and unsympathetic about this, but the real world is often cold and unsympathetic too.

Best Regards,

Echo Mike

[Will Hung]

The bit about the damage to the leading edge after some K**bhead apparently taxied into a fuel vent is staggering. Presumably, whoever took the a/c after that picked it up on the pre-flight ? Therefore, I would think it's fairly easy to establish the culprit. Beyond that, to not report it is unforgiveable, and the a***hole needs a good shoeing.

[AC-DC]

To me this airfield sounds to be a place that is run by a reasonable and polite person. I see no problems here.