Cabin crew communication with "sterile" flight deck

[Gibon2]

Hello, SLF here. Sorry to interrupt, but I wondered if any of you could shed any light on an issue that came up in this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=326645) in the SLF forum (originally about infant seatbealts).

I had asked what a passenger should do to notify the cabin crew if they notice something is wrong as the aircraft is about to start, or has actually started, its take-off roll. By "wrong", I meant anything from a seatbelt problem to noticing that the wing is on fire.

A friendly CC responded:


in my airline at least if the aircraft is lined up on the runway and the engines are spooling up, the cabin crew are not permitted to make contact with the flight crew. There are 2 critical phases of flight, which are take off and landing. The take off phase of flight is the "Period between engine power being applied and the retraction of the undercarriage" - so basically if something happened at this point, the cabin crew would not be permitted to contact the flight crew and the flight crew would more than likely not take an interphone call from the cabin if the cabin crew were to attempt one.


I queried whether this meant if CC become aware of a potential emergency during the take-off roll (smoke in cabin, passenger trying to ignite shoe, etc), they cannot communicate this to the flight deck and thus give the pilots the option of rejecting the take-off. The friendly CC responded:

The airline I work for regard the cockpit to be sterile during the critical phases of flight. I for one am happy with this procedure, the last thing that I want is to contact the flight crew and distract them at an inappropriate moment. If I was to say to the pilots on the interphone "Oh my god, there is smoke in the cabin" and we were just passing V1, they might attempt to stop, go off the end of the runway and end up crashing into some obstruction that would cause a worse catastrophe than what would happen by continuing.


Is this right? Or is there/should there be a procedure for CC to alert the flight deck to a (potential) safety problem during the take-off roll? Surely it is the pilots who will decide whether to continue the take-off, based on the information available to them at any stage up to V1. If (potentially) important information is withheld, they are presumably less likely to make the correct decision. Or am I completely wrong?

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

[Chesty Morgan]

"Oh my god, there is smoke in the cabin" and we were just passing V1, they might attempt to stop, go off the end of the runway and end up crashing into some obstruction that would cause a worse catastrophe than what would happen by continuing.

Well that wouldn't or shouldn't happen.

On my type, and I assume all others, there is a big difference between the standard intercom ding and the emergency ding. The emergency call being a lot louder and more insistent. We brief at the begining of each day when and why to use the emergency call, usually FIRE or SMOKE. If we are on the ground or in the air bloody well press it if you need to! If we are on the ground and it's before V1 we will stop. If it's after V1 we wont BUT we will get in contact with you as soon as possible. And this is regardless of the steriile cockpit rule.

So...
Is this right? Or is there/should there be a procedure for CC to alert the flight deck to a (potential) safety problem during the take-off roll? Surely it is the pilots who will decide whether to continue the take-off, based on the information available to them at any stage up to V1. If (potentially) important information is withheld, they are presumably less likely to make the correct decision. Or am I completely wrong?

...you are correct.

[GlueBall]

Yes there is a "sterile cockpit" rule, but no rule and no SOP is constraint by common sense and survival instinct. The cabin crew can and will ring the flight deck up to but not during takeoff roll in case of obvious, self evident, imminent danger affecting flight safety. But certainly not about unsecured seat belts.

[Admiral346]

I always brief my cabin crew to call me whenever they feel like it, especially if the gut feeling "there is something wrong" takes hold of them. At the same instance, I tell them if they call me during the take off while we are still slow (my limit 80kts) I will abort. I do brief that and look into their eyes, so I know we understood each other. Then I tell them, I will continue take off if they call me at hight speed, but won't pick up the intercom until the gear is up, and that the person with the heart attack will have to wait 10 mins, as I won't endanger the lives of 100 against one. The unfortunate one will have to hang the 8 mins it takes to get back...

Nic

[SNS3Guppy]

Whereas no one else knows how fast we're going unless they're up front to see for themselves, there's no way for the cabin crew to know by the speed of the airplane when to call and when not.

If you, as a passenger, have a problem or see a problem, then you should use your call button. If it's a critical problem, the crew is probably going to see it in the cockpit before you do, with the exception of a massive fuel leak. Fires, flight control problems, anything else...that's going to have a cockpit indication. A cabin fire you may see before the crew, but once the takeoff has started, a rejected takeoff will be primarily for what's seen by the crew.

A genuine emergency very early in the takeoff, yes...but otherwise the flight is probably going airborne, and it will be dealt with as an airborne emergency. It may be a very short flight, but it will be dealt with as an airborne emergency.

Bear in mind that the tower is also watching (or should be...isn't always...I've had controllers fall asleep, take a very long break...even leave the tower to go pray...). The crew is more likely to either see the prolem themselves, or be notified immediately by the tower or another aircraft before you can get word to a flight attendant and the flight attendant can notify the cockpit. Everybody else has a direct link to the cockpit and straight to the flight crew's ears via radio...and even then, everything that concerns me in the cockipit is right in front of me on the panel.

That said, if you do see something that needs brought to the crew's attention, don't keep it quiet. You may be the first, or the only one to see it. My personal perspective is that everyone is tied to that same small piece of real estate; the airplane. Everyone has a stake in what goes on. As a pilot, I may be first to the seen of the crash, but you won't be far behind, so I always welcome your input, too. Just don't be alarmed if I'm unable to respond to it, or receive it, right away.