Merged: QF Delays/Serviceabilities - Add entries here

[wanty]

Isn't it sad GD that your workforce who for so long, has prided itself on it's on time departures, will now "not" give a rats arse about a delay. Quite on the contrary,they will now rellish delays as one more nail in your coffin of mismanagement.

Line your and your management elite with funds. Look after your staff and QF's profits would double. :ok:

[Capt Wally]

......................Look after your staff and QF's profits would double. :ok:
'wanty' this part QF employees can only dream about, not gunna happen I'd say.:bored:




CW

[busdriver007]

You make a billion dollars with a disengaged staff....What could you do with an engaged workforce......:confused:

[indamiddle]

QF 1 delay 4 hours (currently est only)
QF 123 delay 2 and a half hours

[another superlame]

Obviously the delays aren't long enough or there isn't enough of them because it really hasn't made a lot in the news.
It seems that last Fridays truce with big Shazza has turned into a sham.
Lets see the big guns come out on Friday, have a stop work meeting cause some serious delays and get it back on the front page.

This will no doubt get tongues wagging and some managers fretting.
It might also get the scabs on the line and out of the dark so they can show the industry what they are made of.

It needs to make a bang. Send a loud and clear message. If the PIA gets delayed again the confusion that will set in among the ranks will deflate all the good work that has been done so far.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Here is yesterdays Sydney International. Overtime bans must be working. I can’t remember the figure for how much each minute of delay is worth, but it is a lot. Perhaps somebody can post this? Look after and listen to your employees and they will look after and listen to you – its NOT that difficult.

Obviously some flights may leave slightly late due late passengers etc (within 15 minutes is considered on time), however the overall trend is there.

This is Wednesday the 21st of May, Qantas departure on time/late status and time from Syd Intl:

QF163....3 mins late
QF167....25 mins late
QF45......3 HRS 9 mins late
QF47......7 mins late
QF129....19 mins late
QF123....2 HRS 13 mins late
QF63......53 mins late
QF191....17 mins late
QF107....47 mins late
QF127....On time
QF43......56 mins late
QF11......11 mins late
QF73......1 min early
QF187....58 mins late
QF41......10 mins late
QF5........2 HRS 10 mins late
QF189.....1 min early
QF31......3 HRS late
QF1........31 mins late
QF117.....2 HRS 9 mins late
QF49......1 HR 28 mins late
QF 3.......2HRS 4 mins late
QF21......2 mins late


Summary:

Actual
Late Departures: 20
On Time/Early Departures: 3
On Time: 13%

Within 15 minutes (‘Industry Standard’ tolerance allowed):
On Time: 8
Late:15
On Time: 34.8%

How much longer are our passengers going to fly with us with performance like this?

We need to fix such problems and we can't blame the engineers, what they are fighting for is morale, fair and right considering the current profitability of the airline and the irresponsible leadership of upper management. Upper management you created this problem and it is time for you to fix it, show some leadership and start working with your employees so we can all build this airline back to the great airline it once was.

And for the record, just to show that this problem is confined to Qantas and not a Sydney Intl thing, 3 out of 4 of Jetstar’s flights left early or on time.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

I sat there listening to the chaos around us that morning. Engineering didn't know what hit the them and crewing went into meltdown. Unfortunately I expect days like this "Black Wednesday" happening more and more often with this mob.

I'm truly sorry for everyone affected by this raft of delays. If there was anything we could have done to get you going on time we would have done it but with resources stretched like they are that's nigh on impossible.

We are as embarrassed as you are pi$$ed off. :yuk:

[Razor]

All this delay stuff will only get a rise out of management if gets to become public knowledge that it is their fault.
Remember the average punter will blame the nearest person to them when it goes wrong in the terminal - normally either a customer service agent or flight attendant.
Get your union to get the info out into the papers and on TV - then see the results.
WE will put up with this to help you but remember there is a lot of pain for all here.

[Stationair8]

Bet you Geoff's and managements bonus will be on time.

[Big Unit]

Bonuses - On time every time. Management = http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/taunt001.gifhttp://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/taunt001.gifhttp://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/taunt001.gifhttp://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/taunt001.gif.

[Driver 242]

You are just so stupid! If you want to have industrial action, just do it. Make a statement and the rest of the employees will support you 100% To just have an unofficial go slow is worse than doing nothing. It plays right into managements hands, allowing GD to put the delays on you, and imply that a highly skilled work force is incompetent and needs replacing. By just having a go slow puts enormous pressure on the flight crew, extending what was a 12 hour day into a 13 hour day. It does have an effect on the safety of the flight. Yes I am one of the flight crew that is effected by these go slows. Yes I support your case, but I do in no way condone pi55ing off thousands of passengers, who on many cases are setting of on a holiday that that have been saving for for years.
If you want to go on strike, do it. Passengers will understand.
To just delay everything with unofficial actions just makes you appear incompetent.

[Millet Fanger]

One would have to question who is being stupid here. Qantas Engineering LAME's are not 'going slow', and it is not unofficial. We are following a strategy in pursuit of a fair and reasonable renumeration for our knowledge and skills. The action has been legally sanctioned by the AIRC, which provides a bit of protection from Dickson and his henchmen. At present, the only action we have taken is to ban overtime on our days off. If aircraft are being delayed that is because Qantas doesn't employ enough engineering staff to safely prepare all aircraft prior to flight. The problems that you and passengers face arise from managements actions, not LAMEs.

[hadagutfull]

Having been personally involved in some of the recent delays, I can assure you it was not a go slow!!!
We actually were aware of the pax inconvenience and tried to expedite the work we had to do. But having to get all the appropriate tooling, manual references, locking out various systems etc etc... takes time.
How many times have we tried to get the procedures refined to suit line environments??? too many. It just ended up in the too hard basket!!
Its not my system and I did not write the PPM or the AMM, but if that is the stuff they will hang me out to dry with whilst trying to get the plane out then ill use it against them to show how much WE put our asses on the line for the good of the company in the past!!!
I did not get a break that day and the delays put extra pressure on our own resources as the days are planned around everything going on time, so its not a go slow and my personal apologies to anyone who was delayed but we did the best we could whilst operating within the rules.

Cheers.

[Anulus Filler]

PERTH DELAYS 22/5/08

BNE QF 652 12:05 AM 12:19 AM-DELAYED 14M
SYD QF 568 12:15 AM 1:23 AM -DELAYED 1HR8M
KTA QF 906 5:25 AM 5:38 AM -DELAYED 13M
SYD QF 574 5:45 AM 6:05 AM -DELAYED 20M
MEL QF 480 6:10 AM 6:38 AM -DELAYED 28M
KGI QF 1060 6:15 AM 6:40 AM -DELAYED 25M
ADL QF 590 6:20 AM 6:37 AM -DELAYED 17M
BNE QF 650 7:35 AM 7:39 AM -DELAYED 4M
DRW QF 792 8:20 AM 8:30 AM -DELAYED 10M
ADL QF 668 9:45 AM 9:55 AM -DELAYED 10M
BME QF 1074 9:55 AM 10:25 AM-DELAYED 30M
SYD QF 642 10:00 AM 11:00 AM-DELAYED 1HR
MEL QF 762 10:10 AM 10:33 AM-DELAYED 23M
KTA QF 914 10:45 AM 11:08 AM-DELAYED 23M
SYD QF 580 11:45 AM 4:43 PM -DELAYED 4HR58M
SIN QF 77 12:00 PM 12:05 PM -DELAYED 5M
BNE QF 598 12:35 PM 12:47 PM-DELAYED 12M
MEL QF 802 1:00 PM 2:35 PM -DELAYED 1HR35M
MEL QF 476 1:40 PM 2:21 PM -DELAYED 41M
ADL QF 592 2:00 PM 2:27 PM -DELAYED 27M
SYD QF 582 2:10 PM 2:44 PM -DELAYED 34M
KTA QF 916 2:25 PM 2:51 PM -DELAYED 26M
MEL QF 768 3:15 PM 6:39 PM -DELAYED 3HR24M
SIN QF 71 3:30 PM 3:46 PM -DELAYED 16M
SYD QF 566 4:15 PM 5:35 PM -DELAYED 20M
CBR QF 718 4:25 PM 4:35 PM -DELAYED 10M
KGI QF 1064 5:20 PM 5:36 -DELAYED 16M
ADL QF 584 5:25 PM 5:38 PM -DELAYED 13M
BNE QF 594 5:35 PM 7:50 PM -DELAYED 15M
MEL QF 776 6:10 PM 6:50 PM -DELAYED 20M
ADL QF 810 6:15 PM 6:32 PM -DELAYED 17M
MEL QF 648 11:35 PM 11:59 PM-DELAYED 24M


SUMMARY
ON TIME DEPARTURES 0%
WITHIN 15M 30%


There you go folks. Every departure out of Perth was delayed.:\:ouch:

Enough said......

[regitaekilthgiwt]

FIX this MANAGMENT. Do not blame other people YOU created this so it is up to YOU to FIX it. :ugh:

This is Thursday the 22nd of May, Qantas departure on time/late status and time from Syd Intl:

QF163....41 mins late
QF167....24 mins late
QF45......2 HRS 23 mins late
QF47......3 mins late
QF129....9 mins late
QF81.....44 mins late
QF63......On time
QF107....13 mins late
QF127....16 mins late
QF19......8 mins late
QF43......1 min early
QF11......2 HRS 17 mins late
QF187....46 mins late
QF41......10 mins late
QF189.....7 mins late
QF31.......15 mins late
QF5........6 HRS 45 mins late
QF1.......5 HRS 7 mins late
QF117.....8 mins early
QF49......43 mins late
QF21......2 mins late


Summary:

Actual
Late Departures: 18
On Time/Early Departures: 3
On Time: 14.3%

Within 15 minutes (‘Industry Standard’ tolerance allowed):
On Time: 11
Late:10
On Time: 52.4%


Know who I wouldn't be planning on flying to Europe with at the moment.

[Tempo]

Driver 242.....well said.

[Brasilian Bird]

Was unfortunate enough to be flying out of Perth last evening to witness first hand the ****e new check-in/boarding system I've heard about from the ground staff... what a joke... I thought QF designed this system- great work guys, it rejects half the pax on a given flight for no apparent reason, I was sent back to get a new boarding card then the lady in front got her card rejected... hostie said something about exit row pax being rejected by the system?? People with kids (ie infants) seemed to be having troubles as well... ground staff were so under the pump that wrong destinations were on the gate info boards... :S Poor flight attendants were parroting "sorry, teething problems, new computer program" etc etc and looking embarrassed as all get-out...

Classics of course delayed as well, while waiting to board I also counted a BNE flight arriving late and an announcement regarding a delayed flight due u/s PA... now that I can understand but god did I feel sorry for the ground staff having to deal with all the :mad: flying around!!

So can any QF people tell us how many (what %) of delays have been attributed to this new computer system??

[SeldomFixit]

Driver 242 - insightful post but methinx someone has become enamoured of the cut, thrust, parry and feint when what's really needed is a king hit. Rolled Fed Sec.

[LAMEA380]

Steve Creedy | April 18, 2008
THE on-time performance of most airlines flying the east coast was again brought down by weather in February, with only Qantas managing to top 80 per cent in both the arrival and departure categories.

QUESTION

Are you people saying you are doing better or worse than normal, normal being the key word...perhaps productivity v lazyiness is something you need to look up in the dictionary.....i am not sure...... please compare apples to apples and provide true statistics for a full quarter, you will then see that laziness is what you guys are good at

[AEROMEDIC]

"Driver 242 - insightful post but methinx someone has become enamoured of the cut, thrust, parry and feint when what's really needed is a king hit. Rolled Fed Sec."

Do not agree...

The Protected Industrial Action is just that.....!!!! PROTECTED....
"King hits" serve no purpose except to break the law.
Current action has been effective with no cost to the members.
The allowed 4 hour stoppages for meetings will have a cost, but this will mostly felt by Qantas.

keep up the good work guys....

:ok::ok::ok:

[regitaekilthgiwt]

This is Friday the 23rd of May, Qantas departure on time/late status and time from Syd Intl:

QF163....13 mins late
QF167....On time
QF45......14 mins late
QF47......5 mins early
QF129....4 HRS 42 mins late
QF123....17 mins late
QF149....15 mins late
QF63......3 HRS 39 mins late
QF135....12 mins late
QF191....24 mins late
QF107....6 mins late
QF127....48 mins late
QF43......On time
QF11......5 mins late
QF73......1 min late
QF187....7 HRS 38 mins late
QF41......On time
QF5........2 HRS 35 mins late
QF189.....2 mins late
QF31......16 mins late
QF1........30 mins late
QF117.....5 mins early
QF49......2 mins late
QF 3.......19 mins late
QF21......5 mins late


Summary:

Actual
Late Departures: 20
On Time/Early Departures: 5
On Time: 20%

Within 15 minutes (‘Industry Standard’ tolerance allowed):
On Time: 15
Late: 10
On Time: 60%



This is Saturday the 24th of May, Qantas departure on time/late status and time from Syd Intl:

QF163....36 mins late
QF91......6 mins late
QF167....16 mins late
QF136....15 mins late
QF121.....1 HR 24 mins late
QF45......28 mins late
QF47......2 mins late
QF81......21 mins late
QF107....13 mins late
QF127....1 HR 42 mins late
QF43......5 mins early
QF11......12 mins late
QF19......13 mins late
QF73......1 HR 16 mins late
QF187....8 mins late
QF5........3 HRS 6 mins late
QF31......12 mins late
QF1........25 mins late
QF117.....5 mins early
QF49......4 mins early
QF 3.......7 mins late
QF21......9 mins late


Summary:

Actual
Late Departures: 19
On Time/Early Departures: 3
On Time: 15%

Within 15 minutes (‘Industry Standard’ tolerance allowed):
On Time: 13
Late: 9
On Time: 59%


Does anyone remember the figure we were told as to how much a minute of delay time costs?

[Keg]

Does anyone remember the figure we were told as to how much a minute of delay time costs?

About $530AUD if I recall correctly. That said, it's an 'artificial' number that doesn't bear much resemblance to reality. It's found by adding up total minutes of delay throughout the year and dividing that by what those delays cost the airline in planned increased fuel burn and other costs. Some delays ultimately require the a/c to overnight and the punters to be put up at motels. Some delays cost nothing and you can still arrive early. The delay costs from that overnight are shared with the other delay to come up with the 'cost per minute'.

The reality is that most delays cost little/nothing. Some delays cost big time.

[indamiddle]

"...you will then see that laziness is all you are good at".
now i don't know whether this is true by any stretch of the imagination but my dad always said if you are going to do anything then be the best at it. so , to the lazy engineers, ensure you are lazier than LAMEA380, then all your PIA will be achieved

[Rak-a-san]

I heard today from a relable source, last night ADL only had 1 poor avionics guy on. 9 a/c total, QF and JQ. However due to whatever, manage to ground a jet for a pitot static problem. Apparently the same jet also had an electrical power contactor issue and a crew harness problem.

The A/c in question, I believe ferried out at 15.30 today, instead of 06.30

They say things come in 3's, shame it was all on the one jet. :ugh:

Its good to see how the place falls apart without overtime:D

[Beg Tibs]

anyone have the figures of the overseas carriers departure times for a given day out of Sydney..? That would clarify just how bad the situation is

[rammel]

Has anyone seen the latest delays in MEL. Yesterdays QF9 MEL-SIN-LHR went today almost 24hrs late. Todays QF9 is now going tomorrow, once again almost 24hrs late. And QF25 MEL-AKL-LAX for today is now also going tomorrow, also almost 24hrs late.

I would suggest GD was a little bit quick in making this statement.

“To date, we have not experienced any significant issues as a result of the union’s overtime bans,” (Dixon. smh.com.au 28May08)

[tnfixer]

Melbourne domestic today had some pretty good delays also. half the a/c that had to come up from the hangar ex ons went out late. One went straight back u/s. The twin engined a/c that go international were 50% on time. Another domestic a/c arrived early arvo and went u/s - couldn't tow it to the hangar because there was no room with all the other a/c down there. Two not being worked on because of no manpower. No leave almost a full crew (only missing 4 on sick leave ) and still not enough manpower to even keep up with the work. Who needs overtime!!

[numbskull]

SYD departures for 31 May

Airline Delays
Code Name Scheduled Tracked Departed Cancelled 15-30 30-45 45+ Ontime
QF Qantas Airways 86 80 76 6 14 6 8 62%
DJ Virgin Blue 85 2 72 2 0 0 0 0%
JQ Jetstar Airways 34 34 31 0 1 0 0 97%
QFA Eastern Australia 22 22 22 0 3 1 3 68%
SSQ Sunstate Airlines 9 8 9 0 0 0 0 100%
SQ Singapore Airlines 5 4 5 0 0 1 0 75%
TG Thai Airways International 4 4 4 0 1 0 0 75%
EK Emirates 4 4 4 0 1 0 1 50%
CX Cathay Pacific Airways 3 3 3 0 1 0 0 67%

PER Departures 31 MAY

Airline Delays
Code Name Scheduled Tracked Departed Cancelled 15-30 30-45 45+ Ontime
QF Qantas Airways 25 23 21 3 3 0 10 35%
DJ Virgin Blue 11 10 10 0 2 0 1 70%
XR Skywest Airlines 9 9 9 0 0 0 1 89%
SQ Singapore Airlines 3 3 3 0 0 0 0 100%
GA Garuda Indonesia 2 2 2 0 0 0 1 50%
JQ Jetstar Airways 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 100%
EK Emirates 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 100%
MK Air Mauritius 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 100%
TG Thai Airways International 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 100%
TT Tiger Airways Australia 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 100%

MEL Departures 31 May


Airline Delays
Code Name Scheduled Tracked Departed Cancelled 15-30 30-45 45+ Ontime
QF Qantas Airways 68 67 61 4 12 5 4 67%
DJ Virgin Blue 65 63 55 1 5 1 3 85%
JQ Jetstar Airways 27 27 24 0 1 0 3 85%
ZL Regional Express 15 12 9 0 0 0 2 83%
TT Tiger Airways Australia 14 13 11 0 0 0 0 100%
QFA Eastern Australia 13 13 13 0 0 0 0 100%
SQ Singapore Airlines 4 3 3 0 1 0 0 67%
CX Cathay Pacific Airways 3 3 3 0 0 0 0 100%
EK Emirates 3 3 3 0 0 1 0 67%
XM* Australian Air Express 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0%

[The_King]

Saturday 31 May
QF668Adelaide 09:45 12:53 Departed
QF1074Broome 09:55 10:04 Departed
QF580Sydney 11:45 14:15 Departed
QF668Adelaide 09:45 12:53 Departed
QF580Sydney 11:45 14:15 Departed
QF1942Alice Springs 12:10 14:13 Departed
QF598Brisbane 12:35 14:35 Departed
QF802Melbourne 13:00 17:17 Departed
JQ6802Melbourne 13:00 17:17 Departed
QF1922Ayers Rock 13:20 14:40 Departed
QF476Melbourne 13:40 15:43 Departed
QF1894Kalgoorlie 13:50 16:40 Departed
QF592Adelaide 14:00 Cancelled
QF476Melbourne 13:40 15:43 Departed
QF1894Kalgoorlie 13:50 16:40 Departed
QF582Sydney 14:10 16:20 Departed
QF1916Karratha 14:25 15:38 Departed
QF768Melbourne 15:15 Cancelled
QF768Adelaide 15:15 17:28 Departed
QF1814Port Hedland 15:35 17:20 Departed
QF566Sydney 16:15 Cancelled
QF718Canberra 16:25 16:54 Departed
JQ653Melbourne(Avalon) 17:20 17:47 Departed
QF594Brisbane 17:35 17:52 Departed

I could go on copying and pasting but you get the idea.

I’m led to believe there was some hostile Pax inside the terminal.

[VC9]

Most of the delays out of Perth on 31 May due to OHS issue re being on the tarmac during possible TS. One flash and it's all over for another hour. No common sense or judgement allowed. Other parts of the world applying the some criterea would not have any movements, full stop. The Nanny state is the Australian way these days.

[N.E.R.D.]

VC9 "No common sense or judgement allowed"

True and correct statement.

QANTAS Group Safety have approved a NATIONAL thunderstorm procedures policy which requires all staff to be removed from ALL RAMP areas when a risk of lightning threshold has been crossed.

The approval to return to an active RAMP can only be made by Port control or Operations control depending on the station involved. It is based on information from BOM and portable lightning meters.

It is for the safety of all RAMP staff.:D:D

Sorry for the thread drift!

[Toolpants]

Did I mention 1 rampy in Perth was actually hit by the lightning yesterday (Sat 31). He is still in hospital if anyone is interested.

Just as well we all got off the ramp when we did or there could be more of us Perth people in Hospital.

I’m glad we have the thunderstorm policy and didn’t leave it up to VC9’s common sense.

Don’t worry VC9, I’ll let the rampy know you think we should stay out there next time.

[YSSY sider]

QF11 showing 21:30 departure today (1st June).

[flyingins]

With all the extra time you guys have (obviously because of Qantas's horrific and entirely unreasonable delays), why don't you invest in something a little more beneficial?

Getting a life, for example. Or even going to visit the poor bugger in Perth who got whacked by lightning trying his hardest to make your silly little lists look less damning of the world as we know it. :ok:

Twits.

[Big Unit]

Flyingins. You forgot the sixty! :ok:

[ling_woo]

QF 31 today to LON via SIN was delayed. Left around 5 hours late but then came back to the gate due to defects. It's leaving tomorrow around 18 hours late.

[Rak-a-san]

I have heard little ADL town is trying hard, with aircraft still being left in the hangar after check, out later that day, aircraft getting grounded due autopilot problems without any spares etc etc

Mother nature came to the rescue, a phone call from someone today saying there were 8 heavy international diversions to ADL, crew running out of ours, no melbourne flights could go, absolute chaos. Jets lined up down the taxi ways. chocks flying everywhere hehehehe

good ol mother

thanks for the help :D:D:D:D:D

[hotnhigh]

Business class rage over Qantas delay
By Larissa Cummings June 03, 2008 05:02pm
Email article

Text size + - A QANTAS international flight has been delayed for almost 24 hours due to mechanical problems. Angry business class passengers on the Singapore-bound flight QF31 had to be subdued by airport police officers this afternoon after they became abusive towards airline staff.

The flight, which is code-shared with Air Malta's KM2031 and British Airways flight BA7371, was scheduled to leave Sydney at 4.55pm yesterday.

The Qantas website lists the departure time as 4.30pm today - almost 24 hours later.

It is understood passengers were given hotel accommodation overnight by Qantas.

Australian Federal Police officers at the airport were called to the Qantas Club lounge during the afternoon after passengers began swearing at staff over the delay.

"It was in relation to some harsh words that were being said,'' an AFP spokeswoman said.

"When our officers arrived the situation had been defused.''

Steve Re of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association confirmed the flight had experienced technical problems last night before taking off.

He said passengers were asked to disembark so engineers could fix the problem.

After returning to the airport this morning for a 10.30am departure, passengers were advised of a further delay.

A Sydney Airport spokesman said passengers were still waiting at the departure gate to board the plane at 4pm


:ugh::ugh::{

[Capt Wally]

All this does at the end of the day is hurt QF's good image (well the one they used to have). But it needs to be done. That corny statement........no pain no gain applies big time here!

What makes up a plane ?.......METAL (primarily)
What makes up an Engineer?........Flesh & bone

What makes up GD?..........emptyness:bored:


CW

[Taildragger67]

From the Daily Telegraph (http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23804333-5001021,00.html) story:

"We discovered a number of blocked toilets after passengers had boarded the plane when it was due to take off just after 1pm. We are still investigating how that happened.''

:hmm:

[PIOT Bord]

It was a bad hair day in Melbourne today (FOG must have affected it). The average delay for all QF international departures was 6 Hours, 48mins.
That doesn't include the cancelled flights or a blow out in times for those still to go.

It's a pity Geoff doesn't give a rats about the passengers. Imagine, every international passenger having to wait an extra 7 hours. It's amazing that the police haven't been called to quieten down a few more of them.

[KittyBlue]

You should have seen those Cancelled QF passengers who got on my DJ flight from PERMEL on the red eye. Ugh!!!!
They were not the most pleasant, but hey I got them to MEL and on time! :D

[Capt Fathom]

Maybe 'bout time Dixon pulled his head out of his arse and had a look around.

The customers are mightily peed off, and the shareholders are getting nervous. In particularly the major institutions!

[ling_woo]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-hit-by-long-delays/2008/06/04/1212258833814.html

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23804420-5014090,00.html

Even the police were called in to the QF Club lounge :eek:

[VH-Cheer Up]

The flight, which is code-shared with Air Malta's KM2031 and British Airways flight BA7371

So - Air Malta and the Flying Nigels must be at least partly to blame, then?

[Islander Jock]

Arrived at Perth this morning 45 mins prior to departure. Usual mad rush of FIFOs and the early Sydney / Melb flights. Get my boarding pass out of self serve and join the line.

Pax for mine and ZNE flights called out of queues to check-in counters 14 and 15. no worries I thinks - we will get in quick now. Waiting in this line I see my original spot in the other queue go through normal bag drop.

Check in staff just keep working through the people without calling fwd the pax on the flight about to be closed. Next I hear that PBO flight is closed and to go to ticketing.:mad: I go to ticketing and express my displeasure at the cluster going on. Only to be told by the boring old fart there that he didn't want to be spoken to in such a way and to take it up with duty manager at counter one. Go over there with about 4 other punters in same situation and had the most helpful customer service young lady ever. (She's clearly wasted at Qantas). Explain the situation to her and she discusses with Duty Mngr and they hold flight to get us on.


Get our boarding passes and now a quick mad scramble through security up to the boarding gates where I get a surly cabin crew member say "all the passengers have boarded and we are waiting for YOU". No you're not waiting for me sweetheart - there are a couple more behind me.:E

Then at the top of the stairs I get the cabin mngr giving me a patronising look and glancing at her watch. :ugh: WTF don't load and check in talk to ramp and crew?

OK, I feel better now.

I know - it was a bit of a rant but for the purpose of keeping on topic, I think we were 11 minutes late departing and 8 minutes late arriving.

[Mr. Hat]

There was sometin Australian Aviation a month or so ago about the government introducing some legislation or rules regarding airlines and delays whereby the pax are entitled to compensation.
Anyone know more?

[rammel]

While a foggy morning causes delays, at QF the schedule is normally back to normal by the afternoon. This is because everyone involved at the airport sees that the weather is unpredictable and they get on with the job, when everything starts to happen.

Yesterday in MEL the schedule was stuffed well until almost midnight. It would be fair to say the schedule never got back to normal. QF25 MEL-AKL-LAX std:1030ish atd:1830 to AKL, and std of 1555 ex AKL atd 2335. That is one example. Most of the International flights ex MEL for QF were delayed around 6 hours or more.

The weather would have been the main cause for these delays, but the LAME's o/t ban would have also contributed. If one section can ban o/t and it has such an effect, that means that area is cut to the bone. If the company gets by, by relying on o/t then when it falls in a heap they shouldn't be surprised.

On a positive note for QF QF9 MEL-SIN-LHR was only 45mins or so late yesterday. That's the closet it's been to schedule for most of the week.

[Tankengine]

Rammel,
Your point re O/T "subsidising" normal work is true.

The QF25 to AKL/LAX was primarily delayed due wx then the absolute SHAMBLES at ADL yesterday. [perhaps only slightly due unengaged engineering :E]

The 330 flew QF26AKL/MEL, hold 25 mins, approach, go-around, divert ADL,
then hold on taxyway for 4hrs!!! before getting on to a remote bay for refuelling. [ due to the many diversions] Then it flew to MEL and got away quite well back to AKL if your atd of 18.30 is correct!:ok:

ADL had aircraft all over the place with crew running out of hours and groundstaff overwhelmed! Some lateral thinking by some crews saved the companies $$ and kept most pax as happy as possible but a tiny number of extra ground staff could have saved XXX$$$:ugh:

But then Dixon's bonus would be less:yuk:


Islander Jock:
Due same reasons, no, checkin staff DONT talk to cabin crew in situations like this, neither has the time! Blame Geoff!!:=

[Greyarea]

Qf2 from London arrived in SYD 8 hrs late yesterday!

[airbusthreetwenty]

Wasn't it not that long ago that a number of delays were discovered to have been caused by blankets being stuffed down aircraft toilet?

[Anulus Filler]

ISLANDER JOCK

Arrived at Perth this morning 45 mins prior to departure

Next time get there 60 mins before departure. :ok:

[Hardworker]

It was interesting on VH-OJH towed back to the terminal after PAG & FMU change and then the P3.0 sense line replaced to fix the Engine One that had problems starting, the cabin crew boarded the aircraft and then 15 minutes prior to departure Line Maintenance staff that there was 3 blocked toilets. The Terminal guys raced upstairs and managed to remove the blockages of wads of Blue paper towels...Only to be advised once they were back on the tarmac that they needed to come back upstairs as there were another 5 blocked toilets! So the guys cleared them with one having a nice surprise in it as well....Then on the insistence of Engineering management all staff involved with the aircraft were interviewed by security....

[division1]

Then on the insistence of Engineering management all staff involved with the aircraft were interviewed by security....

That is ridiculous, as if the workload is such that we have time
to talk to security on the way defects are handled. This is nothing
short of gross harassment. The only time we should talk to security
is when an accusation is made, evidence produced, and then where
is the alaea representative. Until then, letting them see your i.d. is all
we really need to do.
It does seem the management is going all out to provoke some sort
of higher level industrial action. The very same modus operandi G.D. used
last time, to ferret his way out of meeting with the voices from below face to face.

[Islander Jock]

AF,
If the bar in Q club was open I'd arrive 2 hrs early. :E

Point taken but I think that if you call pax to join a certain queue regardless of where they are previously, you then have a responsibility to make sure you have cleared them before you close the flight. Wouldn't you agree?

Maybe Q needs to get a refund on the money they paid for ALTEA as that seems to be causing no end of grief for check in staff.

[wanty]

You are just so stupid! If you want to have industrial action, just do it. Make a statement and the rest of the employees will support you 100% To just have an unofficial go slow is worse than doing nothing. It plays right into managements hands, allowing GD to put the delays on you, and imply that a highly skilled work force is incompetent and needs replacing. By just having a go slow puts enormous pressure on the flight crew, extending what was a 12 hour day into a 13 hour day. It does have an effect on the safety of the flight. Yes I am one of the flight crew that is effected by these go slows. Yes I support your case, but I do in no way condone pi55ing off thousands of passengers, who on many cases are setting of on a holiday that that have been saving for for years.
If you want to go on strike, do it. Passengers will understand.
To just delay everything with unofficial actions just makes you appear incompetent.


NO ONE IS ON A GO SLOW, EITHER OFFICIAL OR UNOFFICIAL-PERIOD

The answer is simple, not one engineer has any more good will towards the company any longer.

100% work to rule based solely on QF'S PPM and a severely under resouced engineering Dept.

[Brasilian Bird]

You can add a couple Sydney flights to that list...

Came home last night and as we were standing round the baggage carousel it was announced that a flight was cancelled due to maintenance issues unable to be resolved (hhm wonder why) also there were quite a few coppers standing round the place ( to keep the peace I suppose!) and they told me that the earlier Syd had had to go to Brisbane and Q actually paid to put up the punters there, then planned a special charter out of Bne first thing!! Can imagine what those costs would be looking like!!!

Just pay the engineers Geoff.

[kotoyebe]

Maybe Q needs to get a refund on the money they paid for ALTEA as that seems to be causing no end of grief for check in staff.

Another stupid decision by some manager that probably got a mega bonus. This system has to be the most useless piece of sh*t ever to grace an airport terminal. I can't wait to the rest of the network gets onto it. NOT!

[KittyBlue]

Anyone considered flying virgin blue at all?? :eek:

[man on the ground]

On a positive note for QF QF9 MEL-SIN-LHR was only 45mins or so late yesterday. That's the closet it's been to schedule for most of the week.

Make that 2 hours late! I was on the f%*@er. They boarded us 35 minutes after ETD, then left us sitting in the plane for an hour, with the most irritating CSM in the universe giving "regular" updates "we're just waiting for some more crew to arrive on another flight", "we're just waiting on the last passengers to arrive", "still waiting for that extra crew", and with each announcement "by the way, we're still refueling so leave your seat belts off"!

ETD 1530; wheels up 1727.

Good old 'captain speaking' assured everyone en route that they'd checked ahead and everyone would make their connections in WSSS; leaving many many of us to find out from the nice Singapore girl at the top of the aerobridge "you have missed your flight, go to the transfer desk".

A QF tactic to keep the punters quiet? Board them over an hour early, make up crap excuses for 'small extra delays", calming words from 4 bars up the front, and leave the poor Asian gate agent to cop the flack at the other end?

The weather delays are unavoidable, no one has an issue with that. But the blatant dishonesty to keep the punters quiet is a pretty low act.

[toolowtoofast]

AKL-LAX (QF25) late out yesterday afternoon apparantely due flap problems.

[Anulus Filler]

Looks like this delay had nothing to do with the ALAEA campaign. Just bad luck with weather


It's the hand of God supporting the LAME's!!:ok:

[BN APP 125.6]

QF21 SYD-NRT last night.

Cancelled apparently?

[DOME]

Ben Sandilands' article:

This week’s stand offs between angry passengers and Qantas has seen air travel cross the same threshold of ugliness it did in America , the UK and much of Europe years ago.

It is close to war between some carriers and their customers abroad, with the loathing that exists between British Airways and the mob scenes of its top tier frequent flyer members throwing their cards in disgust on the floor of Heathrow Airport indicative of what happens when incompetence becomes entrenched in service delivery.

But now an Australian airline has started using security and police to protect itself from outraged punters who don’t get what they paid for, which is punctuality, civility and cleanliness.

The invasion of a Qantas Club lounge at Sydney’s international terminal on Monday by passengers who had been completely screwed by a cumulative 24-hour delay on a flight to London really isn’t the amusing incident it was reported as being in some quarters.

It was a rupture of trust that is very dangerous for Qantas, and a clear warning to Virgin Blue and Tiger.

That incident and others that followed this week arise from the inability of Qantas to maintain its fleet in reliable working order.

Pre the lounge invasion Qantas and Jetstar have dumped jetloads of hundreds of passengers at a time in terminals, even outside locked terminals, in Sydney, Perth, Hobart and Honolulu among others as aircraft broke down and staff dithered over the arrangements or obligations needed to accommodate them.

Passengers have been left sleeping on bus shed benches in some cases.

Qantas no longer has enough spare parts nor qualified maintenance staff on duty, to perform the necessary pre-flight or turnaround checks, or carry out what in a full service carrier would be otherwise routine running repairs or rectifications.

It goes beyond the current overtime bans by maintenance workers too. Most of the screw ups in Qantas and Jetstar flights this year have happened before the bans were applied.

The forced withdrawal from service of four aged 747s and several seriously unreliable senior 767s just announced by Qantas will make things much worse. These jets aren’t worth the heavy maintenance they need to remain safe and legal, but the replacements Qantas thought it was getting through a large order of Boeing "Dreamliners" isn’t going to happen this year, as planned, or even next year, as more recently promised by the maker, and possibly not until 2011. The Dudliner hasn’t even flown yet. It is still in pieces in Seattle, being wired together.

Yet the maintenance union claims Qantas gutted its engineering resources in Australia in anticipation of outsourcing even more of the work overseas as it introduces new wide bodied jets including the giant Airbus A380s and the Dreamliners and now seems unable to cope with their late deliveries.

Whatever management and the unions say about their respective positions is lost on alienated customers.

The brand is trashing itself as management finds itself trapped by aircraft makers that can’t deliver, and maintenance arrangements that can’t cope.

[toolowtoofast]

Flight cancelled about 1000 local, pax offloaded to other flights, crew disembarked. Looks like this delay had nothing to do with the ALAEA campaign. Just bad luck with weather.

i was just saying it was delayed - i knew what the 'flap problem' was but didn't really need to go into it. it finally left after replacement bits flown over from oz were fitted, positioning up to LAX empty

[Keg]

But the blatant dishonesty to keep the punters quiet is a pretty low act.

I have never, ever come across a Captain that has lied to the passengers to 'keep them quiet'. I've had times where we've been fed incorrect information by the people on the other end of the radio and we've relayed that only to find out it was incorrect but that is a very different thing to stating that crew would be complicit in lying to our passengers. :suspect:

[maui]

QF 81 ADL-SIN Thursday. Cancelled

[Rak-a-san]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver 242 http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4129359#post4129359)
You are just so stupid! If you want to have industrial action, just do it. Make a statement and the rest of the employees will support you 100% To just have an unofficial go slow is worse than doing nothing. It plays right into managements hands, allowing GD to put the delays on you, and imply that a highly skilled work force is incompetent and needs replacing. By just having a go slow puts enormous pressure on the flight crew, extending what was a 12 hour day into a 13 hour day. It does have an effect on the safety of the flight. Yes I am one of the flight crew that is effected by these go slows. Yes I support your case, but I do in no way condone pi55ing off thousands of passengers, who on many cases are setting of on a holiday that that have been saving for for years.
If you want to go on strike, do it. Passengers will understand.
To just delay everything with unofficial actions just makes you appear incompetent.


Maaaate....... We are not on a go slow, we just have a **** load less people avail to carry out the work. Remember when your at the gate usally there is a sh*t load more that is happening everywhere else. Aircraft are getting grounded because they are unserviceable and UNSAFE. I thank you for your support..... please be patient. 99% of engineers normally give up to 120% due to most of us have a professional conscience. There are a lot of aircraft that are getting older and things are now piling up. The remaining engineers on shift are now not giving the normal 120% just doing their job. If GD was'nt so bloody arrogant and came to meetings when he was supposed to maybe this whole thing would be sorted out by now. I hear your your complaints but unfortunately I dont agree with you. I applaud the crews for being understanding and believe it or not there are a lot of passengers who are also behind us (not just our mums). GD is making a fool of himself evertime he gets interviewed. He seems to forget what he has told one media group and goes and contradicts himself in another ............. tut tut tut :=

Be patient my friend, maybe everyone in QF will get to benefit

[wanty]

Sorry boys, it was me, i confess, it was me who blocked the toilet,haven't been eating my roughage lately and I dropped the mother of all turds...................:E

[Capt Fathom]

Don't worry Wanty, **** happens!

[KittyBlue]

From the perspective of a DJ employee its a horrible position to be in. Inexcusable behaviour. Yes maybe there was a surplus of engineers years ago, alas its hard to strike any interest in people wanting to be LAME's etc.

Friends who are BNE engineers have been working on 767 by themselves with a handful of new trainees over the last 12 months to repair and maintain these aircraft.
More engineers = more qualified staff = more repairs and maintenance completed professionally.

The additional $$ the engineers would have reeped from the % raise has most probably been lost in the striking action which occurred. (Please hold your fire with the numbers im about to pull out) The difference of 1-2% from what QF was offering to the % unions asked for.
So the loss of that % increase seems not to the be issue but to have professional engineers (more than 1 per an aircraft) to ensure safety of the planes, passengers and the engineers liability.

I do hope DJ do not go down this track ever.

I wish the best for those guys in the midst of all the sh*t.

[man on the ground]

I have never, ever come across a Captain that has lied to the passengers to 'keep them quiet'. I've had times where we've been fed incorrect information by the people on the other end of the radio and we've relayed that only to find out it was incorrect but that is a very different thing to stating that crew would be complicit in lying to our passengers.

Sorry mate, but this guy either swallowed a whole bunch of smelly stuff, or you've just met your first!

And it's a little bit of a stretch to say no Captain has ever told porkys about why a flight is late!

[PIOT Bord]

10 Qantas domestic flights departing from Sydney were cancelled yesterday. Two possible reasons for that. They either didn't have enough serviceable aircraft, or their yield management planning went berserk. If it's the former, management have messed up - still flying plane beyond their used by date or a lack of personnel to fix them. If it's the latter, demand for flights has deteriorated at an amazing rate - an announcement should be made to the market. Which is it Geoff? The silence is deafening!

[Keg]

And it's a little bit of a stretch to say no Captain has ever told porkys about why a flight is late!

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've never come across a Captain who has bald faced lied about the reasons for an aircraft being late. If it's mechanical it's mechanical. If it's previous flight disruptions then that is what it is. If it's a paperwork error than it's a paperwork error.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

If only young aircraft or aircraft mk2 or whatever he calls himself was still able to post. He would have had the problem sorted out in no time. :bored:

[SCHAIRBUS]

QF planning went into meltdown today over possible compliance breaches, 767 fleet is having serious issues.
Tuesday is expected to be crunch day when many planes could be grounded what a mess!

[lambsie]

767 straight out of heavy maintenance in BNE on Thursday and straight into a revenue service - result: air turnback with Leading Edge Slat Assymetry and then a thrust reverser carks it during the landing roll.

I think any future ATSB report will detail 'multiple systemic failures'.

I heard QF called Ansett 99 the other day... very true!

[Bograt]

QF68 HKG-PER 2 hr delay last night due "late arrival of inbound acft"

[blow.n.gasket]

wanty: Sorry boys, it was me, i confess, it was me who blocked the toilet,haven't been eating my roughage lately and I dropped the mother of all turds...................:E Yesterday 23:46


What's that Wanty,
You gave birth to a Geoff!
No wonder the toilet rejected it and gave up in disgust!;)

[sickofqf]

QF planning went into meltdown today over possible compliance breaches, 767 fleet is having serious issues.
Tuesday is expected to be crunch day when many planes could be grounded what a mess!

Please elaborate for those of us on our days off who haven't been in for a day or two.......on our 5 days off PPrune is our only conduit of fun.......

[Short_Circuit]

Wanty & Blow.n
Keep up the good work (velly fhunny) :E

ALAEA :ok:

M. :mad:

DC :yuk:

[Anulus Filler]

Qantas used to have 33000 people working for it. Now it has 33000 people working against it !! Is it another ANSETT in the making?? Oh well, at least the the executives got the most out of it's carcass:}

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

And the share holders are looked after. :}

[Keg]

Well I guess Geoff is finding out what happens when you put shareholders first. Eventually the workers (who wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the shareholders of course) get jack of it all and start to work- or not work as it is in this case- in a manner that ensures that the shareholders are not being looked after at all. I wonder if through all this he'll realise the error of not putting effort into looking after your staff.

I bet we could get hold of the ANZ CEO for the same package as Geoff is on. I'd quite happily pay him that too!

[Capt Fathom]

I remember when you guys bagged James Strong! :=

Bet you wish he was still in charge! :D

[Anulus Filler]

I remember when you guys bagged James Strong!

GD makes Strong look like a top bloke... That's what's pretty sad.:{:{

[qfguy]

I have to say... I have supported the Engineers and their cause but my life as a groundstaff person has been made HELL since all these interuptions have taken place.

Dealing with angry pax, delays etc... I really do understand your plight but please realise that our lives going to work each day are actually a living hell as a result of whats going on.

Im not angry at what your doing and i still say go for it, BUT, please atleast smile at and appreciate the groundstaff and what we are going through right now because we are on alot less money than yourselves and are getting hammered everyday by the pax that are being affected.

I hope you guys get something for it - fight hard and atleast the **** i get each day will be worth it for someone.

[indamiddle]

was talking to a red tie at the airport yesterday. they are collating all the meal vouchers, taxis, hotel charges etc for the mishandled pax, the managers are starting to freak out at the numbers, this has blown massive holes in budgets.
FOG

[wanty]

I remember when you guys bagged James Strong! :=

Bet you wish he was still in charge! :D


LOL, I actually remember hearing that some "TOP" bloke belted James Strong in a lift :D and thereafter stronggy always walked around with personal security.

Where is that bloke and his talents now ???

For those of you out there not quite following me,I'm not referring to James Strong's talents either, lol.

Only kidding all. ;)

[Max Tow]

According to my dictionary:
"Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself"

As an observer (and concerned QF shareholder), I wonder just how do GD and his colleagues get away with years of stuffing themselves from the QF trough whilst expecting staff to accept sub-inflationary increases from the same feeding bowl? And no, this isn't always the way - see the last sentence of Continental's announcement yesterday. Any chance of the QF board leading by example, I wonder?

GD's attitude to the QF staff seems to rival Michael O'Leary's disdain for his customers - both attitudes seem to have worked in the boom times, but are they sustainable in today's climate or is nemesis around the corner? The oft quoted argument that top management will simply up sticks and walk into a higher paid job with another airline if brakes are put on their own salaries is no longer credible in this time of cutbacks. Time to call the bluff?

Quote:
" Larry Kellner, Continental's chief executive said: 'The airline industry is in a crisis. Its business model doesn't work with the current price of fuel and the existing level of capacity in the marketplace.' The airline's fuel bill will be $2.3bn higher this year than in 2007, with ticket price rises not enough to offset the 75% rise in jet fuel costs, he said.

The airline plans to announce next week which routes are going to be cut back or axed.

Continental's senior management will forgo salaries and bonuses for the rest of the year."

[SCHAIRBUS]

Because so much routine work has been pushed back to get the must do jobs done it is building up big time.
You can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long, all this work has to be done very soon and Tuesday could be crunch time.
I wonder if GD cares might suit him to have QF shutdown then he can just use Jet* to take over.:yuk:

[sickofqf]

qfguy said;
Im not angry at what your doing and i still say go for it, BUT, please atleast smile at and appreciate the groundstaff and what we are going through right now because we are on alot less money than yourselves and are getting hammered everyday by the pax that are being affected.

Firstly qfguy, we ALL very, very much appreciate all the support from all of you guys and gals both on the ground and in the planes. We also realise the horrors you are enduring and I can assure you that just about all of us will support you in your time of need also ( some LAMEs deserve to be shot, sadly, and will never stop being self-centred)....although we would hope any increase of the 3% we achieve, when, not if, we do, will flow on to those who have supported us in these very trying times.

As for you earning way less than us........don't believe everything Geoff tells you about our wages......I wish we were paid what he claims, I personally am well under 100k, do 12 hour rotating days/nights and I've been here 15 years!!

[Reeltime]

Dixon's renowned contempt for his staff is finally coming home to roost. Nothing unifies people more than a common enemy, 30 000 Qantas staff want to see Dixon and his sycophants go down big time.

How many times has he taken the opportunity to denigrate staff, while sucking up to the shareholder (read board). If the new chairman has any idea at all he will sack the current executive management, and get new blood in before it's too late. None of the current staff will ever put in for this company again..not until Dixon is shown the door.

The engineers will win this one guaranteed...this management has no idea what a disengaged workforce can do. Geoff your strikebreakers will never get a guernsey, your staff aren't that stupid.

You're going to be done.....slowly...

[Short_Circuit]

EBY Syd A chk

6 days and counting!

[Bad Hat Harry]

You guys are the only group of employees who have had the moxy to stand up to Dixon.
It would be fantastic if your resolve expedited Dixons early Departure

[kotoyebe]

indamiddle said:
was talking to a red tie at the airport yesterday. they are collating all the meal vouchers, taxis, hotel charges etc for the mishandled pax, the managers are starting to freak out at the numbers, this has blown massive holes in budgets.
FOG


True. I also heard that one port actually ran out of meal and taxi vouchers and was scouting around to get more. Like I said before, the company has well and trully spent more on fighting this, than what it would have cost to pay the ginger beers. The ony savings I can think of are the savings in fuel due to all the cancellations. They have been able to consolidate loads due to it being a quieter time of year. But this p!sses the punter off no end. So much for looking after the shareholder. More like stroking one CEO's ego.

[walaper]

So sad the emphasis put on the shareholder. Surely GD will one day wake up and realize there are 2 more very important stakeholders in this whole equation ,the staff and the customer.

[Short_Circuit]

To GD the shareholder is more important than customers & employees

BECAUSE

He hold millions of shares & options, he is the only shareholder he is worried about. :=

[KittyBlue]

A sad but possibly true statement Short_Ciruit.

A very sad day if that is the case for anyone who placed the trust of their livelyhood in his hands!

[Knumb Knuts]

:* Jeeeez - numb nuts Kelty has been given an AC for his services to the union movement. If that isn't a contradiction! The little hypocrite. Keeerrrist! :E

[TwinNDB]

I also agree with Keg with regard to PA's from the flight deck. I have NEVER been on a flight where the captain or other flight crew have lied about the reason for a delay. It is what it is, loading, paper work, connecting flights, engineering... whatever. Have even had flight crew go to both the First and Business lounges on extended delays to talk to our pax about the delays and answer any questions. (obviously only if time permits!)

Remember, just because we have a delay at one point, say waiting for connecting pax, doesn't mean another will not pop up! :ok:

On a side note - I have heard that some crew are now giving out the office numbers of both our CEO and QF GM so that pax can vent on them! :D

[hotnhigh]

One crew reporting from singapore that over 1000 passengers have been rebooked on other carriers thru there in the last week, due to the ongoing delays to qf services. A bit sensitive to the pax reaction previously in sydney perhaps?

[indamiddle]

did i hear someone say "FOG" in sydney this morning?

[Ngineer]

You never know when a bad fog will raise its ugly head.

[tnfixer]

Airbus late out of maint. in Syd yesterday, left for Perth quite a few hours late. Due into Melb at 1815 last night arrived at 0215 this morning. What a great way to end your long weekend!. At least we had licences and parked it.

[argus.moon]

Tonight...Thursday 12th of June 2008.
A 747 is flying to LAX.....empty.
Thats a whole lot of burn for absolutely no revenue.
Any one able to provide the finer details?

[wrobinsyd]

QF149 late ex maint est dep 2100....very late..shame on you GD

[qfguy]

QF73 SYD-SFO delayed 6 hrs, late ex maint.

[sickofqf]

We can only hope they are stupid enough to send aircraft all the way to LAX empty for an A Check.........imagine the cost when the boys up their refuse to sign for all the sub-standard yank work and make them re-do it under 100% supervision ( remember the FAA inspectors only go crazy when they LEAVE the country to do audits)

They are getting desperate!!

[7 svetva]

Sitting in the QF club SYD waiting for my late Darwin flight. Keep up the good work guys.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

QF511 outta Brisbane for Sydney this morning (14th) - 30 min late departure!

Aborted TO - "Minor technical fault" - I suspect they didn't wind the rubberband up enough cause we taxyed around and had another go - successful!

QF73 outta Sydney to San Francisco - 4 hrs delay and counting!

Dr :}

PS: I know I shoulda taken the Bonza !

[noip]

It's normal to get maintenance done in LAX .... aircraft is all day there anyway, and QF has several Engineers based there.

N

[sickofqf]

Noip,
It's normal for a small component of some A checks to be done in LAX.

This particular one was flown up empty for it's FULL a check to be carried out by 35 local mercenaries and the 6+ QF LAMEs....who are none to happy about it and hopefully giving 100% supervision...!!

Hmm, guess there wasn't anywhere in Asia able to carry out an A Check.......or wouldn't due to QF continually breaking contracts........

[Short_Circuit]

An ugly sister heading for a 2 day layover in LAX for an A chk, Thursday.

[blueloo]

Anyone know which 2 767s are to be grounded yet? (per media release)

.....and how have the 767 hold items been going? .....anything else due to be grounded soon?

[noip]

SOQ,

Thanks for the clarification ..... yes, an aircraft I was on recently there - they mentioned an A check was going to be done during the day. The guys (Lames) there are great blokes and I have the utmost confidence in their professional desire to provide a superb aircraft .......

Rgds

N

[argus.moon]

QF 101 ex MEL to PVG...4 hours late.(14/06/2008)
QF 130 ex PVG to SYD consequently 4 hours late arriving into SYD

[Keg]

....and how have the 767 hold items been going? ..

Increasing. Apparently historic lows for the 767 about 12-ish months ago. Now double that which is still low and still below the worst that is has been but the (rapid) trend is causing concern to some.

[DutchRoll]

....and it's not just "hold items", but MELs and the combination of MELs that we're being asked to accept on the 767.

You can have 20 hold items, all of which can be fairly benign. You can have 3 MELs which cause you to seriously say "Uh uh. You either fix something, or give us another aeroplane, or we can walk off and go home", or which have such a compounding and significant effect on, say, performance data and/or operational issues that you end up delaying the flight just to figure out exactly how you're going to handle it.

[lovelondon]

QF1 SYD BKK due to dep 1700 cancelled 15/6 . Pax commenced boarding at 2245 some made it door of aircraft but no dispensation granted for departure after curfew.

Estimated departure now 0830 today.

[argus.moon]

So when is CASA going to do something?
Oops.... I forgot..... CASA is a subsidiary of Qantas.

[mustafagander]

Qf73 SYD - SFO 16th June - 2 hours late so far.

[Millet Fanger]

Arrived in Syd late, too many hold items, too much OSIP. Tried loading pax to assist with dispensation approval - still had way too much work outstanding. Pax would have to be "entertained" on board for a long time. QE management willing to bend the rules to breaking point in an attempt to get it away.

[happydriver]

A little bit off topic....Is anyone aware if they are fixing aeroplanes at out stations now.

My slip in LA has been extended another 24hours due to aircarft maintenance...or are they just punishing us barons now!!!:O

[Millet Fanger]

Yes they are. QE management are starting to schedule full A-Checks at LAX.
They have had one or two minor problems though. Maintenance packages have not had required documentation included; some contract staff have already had a blue with QE management in LAX and told them to stick their job; because of state of QE maintenance management A/C are arriving late in LAX not giving sufficient ground time, etc., etc.

Good Luck getting out when you are told you will be!

[blubak]

Qf management think this is an easy way out for them but then how many aircraft can be sent to lax for a-checks.
They would rather keep wasting money on ridiculous attempts to circumvent the o/t bans than come up with a fix.They just cant come to terms with the fact that they could be wrong-wonder who ever gave them that idea??
They just cant realise how easy it would be to fix all their problems,the words they havent found yet are COMMUNICATE and NEGOTIATE( in GOOD FAITH that is)

[man on the ground]

Arrived in Syd late, too many hold items, too much OSIP. Tried loading pax to assist with dispensation approval - still had way too much work outstanding. Pax would have to be "entertained" on board for a long time. QE management willing to bend the rules to breaking point in an attempt to get it away.

Does the Captain give the go ahead for boarding, or is it started without his knowledge/permission?

[rudderless1]

Captain always give the OK.:ok:

[man on the ground]

I also agree with Keg with regard to PA's from the flight deck. I have NEVER been on a flight where the captain or other flight crew have lied about the reason for a delay.

Arrived in Syd late, too many hold items, too much OSIP. Tried loading pax to assist with dispensation approval - still had way too much work outstanding. Pax would have to be "entertained" on board for a long time. QE management willing to bend the rules to breaking point in an attempt to get it away.

So, on this occasion the pax would have been greeted by a PA by from the flightdeck "welcome aboard, we've got no prospect of actually departing cos the plane is so broken, but we thought we'd board you anyway to try to sham CASA into letting us break the curfew, and give you some illusion of movement. Settle back, enjoy the view of the tarmac, you'll be looking at it for a while, and enjoy the famous qantas on ground service"? :E

[lovelondon]

No in this instance some pax were escorted down the aerobridge by groundstaff at about 2245 but were not permitted to step onto the aircraft as CPT had not given permisssion to board. They were kept waiting for about 5 minutes and then crew were told to disembark as well.

Then it was advised that there would be no dispensation to depart after curfew.

Also noticed that QF 31 has revised departure time of 2200. Wonder if that will be another that doesnt get away today ?

[obie2]

So how come none of this is in the local papers on a daily basis?

Prune doesn't mean a thing...

but the daily papers?...

get your act together guys!

[sickofqf]

So how come none of this is in the local papers on a daily basis?

Quite simple........it's called 'advertising dollars'. :eek:

Plain and simple, that's it. Once in a blue moon you run a story when you really CAN'T ignore it, ie, the passengers storm the Qantas Club. The rest of the time you cover your ears, eyes and mouth to ensure the advertising doesn't get pulled!!

Yep, thats the three networks sitting like monkeys....... :oh:


Shocking as it may sound....big business look after each other............ :ugh:

[obie2]

Sorry, Sick!...you're kidding yourself, mate!

You'd better get smarter than that!

[qfguy]

From a groundstaff point of view these delays are getting really tiresome.

Angry pax, everything off schedule, we are working long hours to fix the problems...

I wish this would hurry up and and get fixed. We can't put up with this for much longer. It is draining us. :(

[cartexchange]

qf12 LAX SYD now CANCELLED 18 06 2008

this is very odd

[jet.jackson]

If the Capt. is not onboard permission to board can be given by POCO.

[Capt Fathom]

try to sham CASA into letting us break the curfew

CASA have no say over the curfew.
It is governed by the SYDNEY AIRPORT CURFEW ACT 1995. It would require Ministerial Approval for a waiver!

So when is CASA going to do something?
Oops.... I forgot..... CASA is a subsidiary of Qantas.

What's it to do with CASA. As long as the maintenance is completed to the required standard, albeit late, they would have no concerns!

[YOSHI]

Delays, Delays, Delays.................Don't you just LOVE them..........Well, not really.........But it IS NOT the LAMEs fault!!! It is the system under which we have to work. And if that makes it harder for the Ground and Cabin staff to do their job, then THEY ARE NOT PAID ENOUGH either.


As the company says.....'Take 5'%......

[blueloo]

743 Classic service to AKL and then LAX - delayed by 6 hours....so far ....

[qfguy]

Guys,

as a groundstaffer, there is nothing funny about these delays. I understand why you are doing them but please appreciate the hell we are going through.

I am not one of them but i can assure you, each day you are losing the respect and support from alot of people.

As i know you do, I hope there is a fix....SOON. :ok:

[Ngineer]

Mr QFguy, all we are doing so far is not working O/T. You can blame QF management for the delays, not us.

[Big Unit]

as a groundstaffer, there is nothing funny about these delays. I understand why you are doing them but please appreciate the hell we are going through.

I am not one of them but i can assure you, each day you are losing the respect and support from alot of people.

As i know you do, I hope there is a fix....SOON


Mate, what you need to understand is we are not causing these delays. We are not sabotaging the a/c like the abortions above us think we are. And more importantly WE ARE NOT ON A GO SLOW! We are working as hard if not harder than ever before in the entire time I have worked for QF. The reason you are seeing delays at your end is quite simply because we have ceased working overtime in the hope we will achieve a better outcome than the **** sandwich on offer.
So whilst i appreciate the crap you have to deal with, spare a thought for the guys on the floor. The guys on this forum may appear to be happy about delaying a/c but that is against everything we have ever believed in - a safe to fly and on time a/c. :ok: May i suggest you and your collegues write to engineering management.

[lovelondon]

When the engineers were working overtime were they being paid for it ? Are the current overtime bans reducing engineers' income ? If so how long can they hold out on no overtime ? .

I dont understand how a company can rely so heavily on a an essential part of its workforce working so much overtime to get the job done .

[PitPin]

I appreciate that dealing with unhappy passengers is difficult anytime but unfortunately aircraft break or require maintenance checks ,which in turn may find defects that are required to be rectified before dispatch. Lack of manpower, licence coverage ,parts availability ,maintenance manual requirements and QANTAS procedures can also compound the problem .

Thanks for the support and tell the PAX the truth .

[Big Unit]

Are the current overtime bans reducing engineers' income ? If so how long can they hold out on no overtime ?


No worries at all mate. Dont forget tax refund time is just around the corner. Even for the few who are in a bit of debt, a tax refund will carry them on for some months yet. :E:E:E:E

[Ngineer]

Were engineers being paid overtime? Yes. Some younger fellas with families do rely on this as we are being paid below market rates, and have not had a pay increase in almost 2 and a half years.

Are the current O/T bans reducing income? No. But those who worked O/T are obviously not being paid for it anymore. The main thing reducing our income is inflation, and Qantas's refusal of a fair wage increase.

How long can they hold out with no O/T? For as long as it takes. Ask them yourself. No-one on the floor I have spoken to is in a hurry. A few I have spoken to have wives who are working, or have put a little aside for rainy day's like these. And remember that we are also very limited in the amount of O/T we can do due to OH&S, so the extra money for these guys usually didnt go far. And with Qantas always trying to reduce O/T, these workers have realised that they can't survive on O/T forever. They need a fair pay.

[Ngineer]

How can a company rely on so much O/T.

Our engineering management were replaced by people who do not understand our business. Coles/Myer ex-CEO used to brag that he had never set foot inside of a supermarket for 5 years before he took the reigns, and look what happened to them.

Some of our Engineer managers were replaced by guy's who never turned a spanner on an aircraft. They then tried to tell us that Qf Engineering were on par with any other MRO, our safety record meaning nothing. They cut spending money on Tech training, but spent up bigtime on change management courses (telling us the public were no longer concerned with safety). Heavy maint Syd was shutdown, loosing years and years of experience overnight. More jobs were subsequently axed and we lost a lot of experience. The hangar still sits there mostly empty and unused.

Instead of exporting our management to other industries, we are importing them from other fields. I can go on and on, but won't.

[kotoyebe]

From a groundstaff point of view these delays are getting really tiresome.

Angry pax, everything off schedule, we are working long hours to fix the problems...

I wish this would hurry up and and get fixed. We can't put up with this for much longer. It is draining us.

qfguy,

Well, don't fix the problems then. No one is forcing you to stay back after your alotted shift. Refuse the overtime...you know, you have to go to the doctors blah, blah, etc. Leave the mess to the managers to sort out.

As one of the people dealing with the mess everyday, albeit not face to face with the pax, I see this as management causing these problems, not the engineers. I haven't been staying back. It's stressful enough for the 8 hours I'm there.

If on the other hand, you are enjoying the extra dollars from OT, to me this just proves how we have ALL been done over by di*kson for years now, and are relying on OT.

Also, this has been going on well before the engineers have started their PIA. The coalface has been cut to the bone, and then into the bone, and we are all trying to do the impossible with crap facilities, crap aircraft, crap systems, and not enough staff. You can't even get customers called out when flights are cancelled, becaused there aren't any staff.

Like I said, this has been happening well before PIA. For example, I don't know why PER domestic haven't all walked out months ago and gone on stress leave from all the sh*t that has happened there. It can't be good for their health.

[whatdouknow]

I have it in good faith that a Pilot was spoken to at a Maintenance Base and he "fully supports" the Industrial Action.

A comment about the PIA 'strangling' the Airline, was stated.

Hold items not fixed for 10 days, A/C falling over causing him to miss allocated flights, which had cost him his allowances.

However, he still fully supported the action...

Do you think he flies on his days off?

[Keg]

Do you think he flies on his days off?

Actually, many 767 drivers actually do at the moment- and they're making a killing by doing it. You can now do a stand by (5:30 pay) for double time instead- 11:00 pay for a 12 hour standby. Want extra flying? If you offer them nothing you've got it. Tell them you'll do it for double credits and you're still a shot. Tell them you want double credits and then the double pay at the end of the roster for being over projected and they may baulk initially.....until you're the last person available.

Don't get me wrong, majority of 767 crew are supportive of the LAME PIA however they're not stopping from cleaning up due to the inadequate establishment numbers on the 767 at the moment.

Personally I think the ALAEA has painted themselves into a corner even if I do support both their right and desire for PIA. Geoff wants to protect his headline 3% rate for all sorts of reasons. There was the ability to 'give' him that and still get an effective 5% increase.

[Ngineer]

Thanks Keg for the support.

Geoff wants to protect his headline 3% rate for all sorts of reasons. There was the ability to 'give' him that and still get an effective 5% increase.

They also had the chance to offer us 3% with something equivalent to inflation, but blew it. We ain't backing down, and as you suggest, neither is he. Lets see where it goes from here.

[blueloo]

Actually Keg - i think its time someone cracked this mythical glass ceiling of 3%, and actually achieved a worthwhile 5% or more. Instead of pandering round and getting back door improvements to other areas (which i think happen to be needed too) - in an effort to look like we are only getting 3%.

I don't believe 5% is excessive, and I don't think any group should aim for less.


Its about time staff were openly rewarded (not necessarily even rewarded - but just an increase inline with the CPI) for doing their job, given the hell bent destruction Geoff and his cronies are doing, purely to line their own pockets, erm I mean the shareholders. Cough.

[Ngineer]

Does anyone know the actual cost assoc with a delay, and how it is composed.

I have heard figures from $400 per minute to over $1000. I am guessing these are maybe averages made up of hotel accom, taxis, meal vouchers etc.

Are airlines charged a fee for staying on bay after dept time?

[porch monkey]

I tell ya what ngineer, I don't know if they are charged for it, but now that you've said it, if they're not I bet those F@ckers at Macquaire are working on it right now...:suspect:

[Millet Fanger]

The aircraft that was QF1 (delayed 16 hours) on Monday has had an air turn-back ex Heathrow today - Smoke in the cabin. Another 15 hour delay is estimated.

The way Qantas Engineering Management is running the maintenance at the moment is a joke. Inspections being carried out at night, in the rain, with the new ops managers standing over you. If you stop for a minute to think, claims are made that you are going slow. The holes in the swiss cheese are lining up!!! Aircraft are flying with scores of "acceptable" defects.

Where is CASA?

[qfguy]

qfguy,

Well, don't fix the problems then. No one is forcing you to stay back after your alotted shift. Refuse the overtime...you know, you have to go to the doctors blah, blah, etc. Leave the mess to the managers to sort out.

Kotoyebe,

Not all of us work in ports where we have the luxury of just packing up and going home. There is no one to hand over to in our port. We are it. So telling me to not put in the hours is just not possible.
As i have said, i support the Engineers, just saying that each day is getting increasing difficult and very tiring.

[Anulus Filler]

qfguy,

Not all of us work in ports where we have the luxury of just packing up and going home. There is no one to hand over to in our port. We are it. So telling me to not put in the hours is just not possible.


Never forget that you are nothing but a number to QF and defined in dollar terms. We all know you mean well and have the interests of QF at heart, but rest assured that the feeling is not reciprocal. Don't feel that you are the last link in the chain. If you do you will be continuously used ,all at the lowest price they can pay. Nevertheless thank you for your support during this difficult time. I can assure you that this will be a long and drawn out process. It would be best if you don't let things get to you. Sit back and relax, take 5.:ok:

[kotoyebe]

Not all of us work in ports where we have the luxury of just packing up and going home. There is no one to hand over to in our port. We are it. So telling me to not put in the hours is just not possible.
As i have said, i support the Engineers, just saying that each day is getting increasing difficult and very tiring.

qfguy,

I really appreciate where you are coming from. And your support and understanding is surely appreciated by the engineers.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if your mother/father/wife/etc rang you from home and said they were having a heart attack, you wouldn't drop everything and rush home?

I don't know what you do at your port, and I don't mean to tell you how to do your job, but what better way to show that things are not running in an acceptable manner, than to leave a plane on the ground overnight, and pax without any help other than calling reservations. Hey, at times it has seemed like that was in the Jetstar operations manual!

As they say, nobody is indespensible, including di*kson. Don't think you are. They will use you.

[blackguard]

As Seen by Dixon....."you are a unit of work"....not a human being with a family or home life or feelings.
Qantas..."the toxic carrier"
LAMES...you have the support of everyone at Qantas.....dont let the bastards win.
Never give up...never give in ...never say die.

[speedbirdhouse]

blackguard is right.

There are thousands upon thousands of frontline operational staff sick to death of the bullying, thuggery and self serving hypocrisy of qf "management".

We are all living vicariously through your actions.

Never give in.

[Denny Crane]

Denny Crane

[AlanShore]

Denny, I'll meet you on the balcony - you got the malt?

[speedbirdhouse]

Does it cost much to ferry an empty aircraft SYD-LAX????

Rumours suggest that one left tonight, doing just that.

Rumours also that QF2 arrived tonight into SYD 14 hours late.

[Collando]

Aw.... why didnt they let us know, would have had no touble getting on on standby, might of had first class to myself.
If my leave was approved!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ling_woo]

Does it cost much to ferry an empty aircraft SYD-LAX????

Rumours suggest that one left tonight, doing just that.

The QF149? That's been pushed back for a 24 hour delay now. All pax were moved to the other two flights - the 11 and 107.

[blueloo]

If true, I hope its reported to CASA.

Not that it will achieve anything.

[Konehead]

Where is CASA?

Seen at Sydney Domestic Terminal yesterday: 4 CASA guys doing an audit, followed around attentively by a QS & RM mort. Taking names of LAMEs expressing concerns to the CASA inspectors? :uhoh:
I heard he CASA guys were interested to hear LAME input on B743 domestic ops. I also heard they're now in receipt of some interesting and incriminating techlog coupons. :eek:

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if your mother/father/wife/etc rang you from home and said they were having a heart attack, you wouldn't drop everything and rush home?

Qfguy, further to that, how would you feel if we bowed to management pressure and got those planes out on time but unsafely? What if you and your family were on that aircraft?
We're all suffering. I''m working my ring out on a 12 hour nightshift, contrary to management's own fatigue management policy (hey wait a minute! Note to self - maybe I should go on that company-approved go-slow). I'm also hurting because I cant get any leave. I'm tired and worn out from working so hard (as opposed to "going slow"). I have to take sick leave to get a decent break, which means I lose shift penalties.
I used to work a bit of O/T here and there. I miss the gravy. I also miss the pay-rise from managements' failure to invest in me in the form of training, which also reduces my efficiency as an employee. I'm also hurting when I see that I received only 18.1% (compounded) pay-rise in 10 years vs a community standard of 37% and inflation of 34% in the same period, a period of prosperity and wage growth not seen in this country in 60 years, not only in the local aviation industry but the Aussie economy as a whole.

[MELKBQF]

QF9 departed MEL this morning 18 hours late.

[DrPepz]

ST Forum
Bad on you, mate, for making a botched schedule worse
417 words
19 June 2008
The Straits Times, Singapore



(c) 2008 Singapore Press Holdings Limited


THE recent spate of delays and cancelled flights by Australia's national airline, Qantas, which is causing untold inconvenience to its passengers, is not because of the pay strike by the airline's engineers.


The inconvenience is because of Qantas staff's bad service attitude. I was a passenger on QF10 from Singapore to Melbourne, on May 31.


Along with some 400 passengers, I was told that our 7.45pm flight would be delayed until further notice. We waited until 1am before we were finally told that we could stay in a hotel - or go home. The rescheduled flight was at 9am, for which we had to be ready by 6am.


But at 6am, we were told that we had to wait until after lunch. At about 2.30pm, we found out that we were to fly on Singapore Airlines to Sydney, and then transfer to Melbourne via a domestic flight. We were assured that Sydney's Qantas staff members would assist us with our transfers when we arrived.


After almost 24 hours of waiting, about 100 passengers, including myself, went onboard the Singapore Airlines plane. The other passengers had to take the midnight flight. But, we were still rather forgiving. The nightmare began when we reached the Sydney airport and had to wait at the domestic transfer zone for three hours for our boarding passes for the Melbourne connection.


But when some passengers got to the counter, the Qantas staff told them that their names were not in the system. They added rather rudely that the problem was not theirs to solve. A heated argument ensued between some passengers and the Qantas staff members. After a further three hours, the customer service personnel arrived and our boarding passes were finally sorted out.


This ugly episode would not have arisen if Qantas had been more efficient. Its customer service was lacking and its recovery programme rates a zero.
The airline's Sydney staff appeared to take no pride working for the airline. They chose to reprimand rather than help passengers. Their attitude was one of utter indifference.


What happened was not just an embarrassment to the airline but to Australia, especially for many of the passengers who were visiting the country for the first time.


As for the airline's promise of a letter of apology, which I was told had been dispatched some time ago, I'm still waiting for it.


Amy Van (Ms)

[speedbirdhouse]

Nero fiddles while Rome burns....................

The goodwill has gone.


FOG

[Toolpants]

Qantas 20 June 08
137 flights with delays of more than 45mins. Way to go Geoff.

Airline / Scheduled / Tracked/ Departed / Cancelled /15-30 / 30-45 / 45+ / Ontime
Qantas / ---516----- / ---470--- / ---444---- / -----26------ /-- 69-- / --54-- / 137 /--- 41%

[ZK-NSJ]

wheres ralph norris when you need him,

and i quote "i dont care about shareholders, if i look after my
staff, they will look after the passengers, and they will
look after the shareholders"

[Ngineer]

wheres ralph norris when you need him,

and i quote "i dont care about shareholders, if i look after my
staff, they will look after the passengers, and they will
look after the shareholders"


And when Qantas finally dies and goes bust, the shareholders will be the last to get their money. I believe it goes 1/Staff - 2/Customers - 3/Shareholders.

Forget about Ralph, maybe his brother Chuck can sort this out for us.

[Thylacine]

Daniel Emerson
June 23, 2008 - 4:13PM
SMH
A Melbourne businessman has disputed Qantas's claim that passengers on flights cancelled by strike action today were put on replacement planes within an hour, and with good reason - if that were true he'd be on his way to Auckland by now.

The businessman, who did not wish to be named, said he was due to leave Melbourne at 10.45am on flight QF25 but the flight has been rescheduled to leave for New Zealand at 5pm today.

Six Qantas flights from Melbourne and Sydney were cancelled this morning after engineers walked off the job for four hours from 2am because of a pay dispute.

Qantas executive general manager for people, Kevin Brown, told morning radio that all affected passengers had been put "on other flights and all of them within 60 minutes of their planned travel".

But the businessman, who missed an important meeting, said the claim was "simply not true".

"I was literally going out the door when I got a call from Webjet, who I booked the flight through, and then 20 minutes later Qantas called," he said.

"I asked was [the cancellation] due to the industrial action and they said yes.

"I've got a new business and this was a potential client meeting, it was a pretty good opportunity so this is not good.

"It just doesn't look good from my end. Thankfully I can blame Qantas, but I pay for my flights to be on time."

He said when he arrived at the airport this afternoon for his rescheduled 5pm flight, he was told it was cancelled.

He said he was told the plane was due to arrive from Perth, but had been stalled there due to the strike action.

Qantas have now booked him onto a midnight Air New Zealand flight, he said.

"It's been a real drama today. Had they spoken to me to tell me it was canceled [before I got to the airport] it would have been OK. It's really frustrating.''

He said he didn't like Qantas claiming that no passengers were badly affected.

"I think they need their media division to get it right," he said.

The engineers engaged in strikes in three states overnight and will strike again in Sydney at the same time tomorrow morning.

Qantas will cancel another 18 flights tomorrow but have so far refused to budge from their offer of a three per cent pay rise.

The engineers are campaigning for five per cent.

Qantas has been contacted for comment.

[BN APP 125.6]

I have had my flight screwed up last week and this week. (Have actually given up on the on this week.)

But I support you guys 100% anyway.

The tide is turning - nobody believes Geoff anymore. Just ask those who work in the financial markets. You can only cry wolf so many times.

[captainrats]

Pass A Frozo = The Fat Contoller = KB of QF HR...have i got it right ?

[Big M]

This would be the Fat Controller - hilarious clip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmhZbT3P-Z8


:E

[tnfixer]

The a/c was due to arrive in Melb from Per mid arvo. But instead FERRIED Per to Akl. to continue on to Lax as the very late QF25.

[B A Lert]

How many of the cancellations due to 'industrial' reasons are made as the excuse for something that makes good commercial sense - lightly loads flights that are easily combinable with surrounding flights that can take the so-called 'disrupts' with little cost but a fair saving to the Airline?.

Be very, very careful of the Qantas spin.

[blueloo]

A330-200 MEL - AKL today delayed. Not a healthy engine apparently.

[Keg]

BA Lert, or genuine mechanical issues that are tarted up as being due to industrial action.

[blueloo]

http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flightInfo/onTimePerformance

Anyone notice last few months appear missing in action.........can't possibly understand why

[indamiddle]

QF25 late over 6 hours today ex Mel.
JQ35 to Dps now leaving tomorrow!

[Thylacine]

Daniel Emerson - SMH
June 24, 2008 - 4:01PM
Scores of Sydney-bound passengers are stranded at Perth Airport after arriving to find their 11.45am flight canceled.

Queues stretched for 60m from the end of the Qantas check-in area to the baggage collection point at one stage.

ALAEA president Paul Cousins said up to 40 engineers took part in stop-work action in Perth today, delaying some flights.

Qantas had said this morning that no flights from Perth would be cancelled as a result of the strike.

Mike Gorman was due in Sydney to catch a connecting flight to the Solomon Islands where he was to play his guitar for Australian troops.

"We're ringing somone in charge of our trip to find out what we're going to do," Mr Gorman said. "It is obviously a concern.

"I feel frustrated, it is just crazy."

Also waiting in the long line were Tom Hiller and Mick Davies of Sydney.

The two goldfield mine workers resorted to cracking a beer each to pass the time.

"We both worked last night on the mines and caught a plane here," Mr Davies said. "We haven't had any sleep.

"I reckon Qantas should be shouting us a stubby each, to be completely honest."

Rose Bay woman Natalie, who did not want her last name revealed, said she had not yet been told how she was going to get home after Qantas flight QF580 was scrapped.

The airline is reeling today from a series of strikes by engineers over pay.

"We registered online yesterday for email alerts of delays and cancellations but we didn't receive any from Qantas," Natalie said.

"Getting to the airport to find your flight has been cancelled is unacceptable."

Natalie said some of her 11 colleagues, in Perth on an events management assignment, had worked for 24 hours straight on their project and were desperate to get some sleep.

"But no one's told us anything," she said from Perth Airport. "There's only one person at a desk and [all the passengers] look very angry.

"We are lining up, trying to check our bags in but we might have to stay overnight. We don't know."

Qantas has been contacted for comment about the cancelled flight.

Earlier today, a spokeswoman warned that further cancellations on top of the 18 expected today were possible.

But she said passengers would be notified in any event.

"We have currently cancelled 18 but we are saying further cancellations and consolidation may be required as the day progresses," she said.

"We are monitoring the situation and contacting all affected passengers."

She said "consolidation" referred to juggling flight schedules, for example combining two half-empty flights into one.

Qantas confirmed that 22 flights on its Melbourne routes were canceled today, the majority on the Sydney-Melbourne route.

You just can't buy this sort of publicity and adverse opinion of the company that must last months afterwards with negative impacts on sales. If the news reports are half true, QF are not dealing with the situation very well which is throwing fuel on the fire. Lack of staff on desks; poor communications. 2% must be worth a great deal to risk all this aggro.

[7378FE]

It seems alot of business people are defecting to DJ at the moment, judging by the number of suits with QF Gold or Plat frequent flyer luggage tags on their briefcases in the Melbourne Lounge last night.

A lot of them travelling in Premium Economy which has not been selling too well up until recently.

7378FE

[tnfixer]

QF94 Lax-Mel today. Due 0755 arrived 2130. Connecting pax accomodated in Melbourne overnight. Was it late from an A check in Lax ???.

[indamiddle]

QF5 tuesday left wednesday. QF5 wednesday left today, over 16 hours late. over 400 pax total with connections ex FRA to be overnighted. there goes another budget blowout. QF5 today now going tomorrow, another 200 pax to be overnighted

[mmciau]

It seems alot of business people are defecting to DJ at the moment, judging by the number of suits with QF Gold or Plat frequent flyer luggage tags on their briefcases in the Melbourne Lounge last night.

A lot of them travelling in Premium Economy which has not been selling too well up until recently.

7378FE

I was wondering myself just how long before 'normal QF pax' would take to using alternate transport.

This increased activity for DJ may be an economical godsend after a difficult few weeks or so!!!


Mike McInerney

[Short_Circuit]

Beat this one, a 767 in SYD delayed 14 days and counting.:}

[kotoyebe]

Beat this one, a 767 in SYD delayed 14 days and counting.

Maybe the QF5 overnighting 3 nights in a row?

Maybe both the QF1 and QF31 overnight today?? Nah, they decided they couldn't overnight BOTH London flight, then overnighted the QF73 and the
QF1!

[tnfixer]

Qf26 (Lax-Akl-Mel) due to arrive 0820 Sun. Now estimated 1000 Monday.
Qf25 (Mel-Akl-Lax)due to depart 1050 Sun. Now estimated 2000 Sunday.

[mustafagander]

QF93 is (planned) MEL-LAX and QF94 LAX-MEL.
QF25 is MEL-AKL-LAX and QF26 LAX-AKL-MEL.

[packrat]

EBI Ex PVG..10 HRS late.
Time to resign Dixon...FOG.
The Flying Circus is Falling apart

[mrpaxing]

i believe in the last seven days QF5 was delayd 5 times by around 20 hours. scheduled to leave at 1555 but did not leave each time till 0830 the next day. each time the had to overnight pax in SYD aand arriving in FRA (ETA 2200 LT) at considerable expense. who cares about customers? certainly GD does not:=

[newATC]

Just wondering what sort of impact this is having on QF domestic services?

I've been getting a lot more requests than usual from QF aircraft along the lines of "Centre, we're running a bit late today, request high speed descent".

[Angle of Attack]

mrpaxing you are right about Frankfurt services but its worse! 3 didnt even make it! Yesterday or 2 days ago cant remember now the earliest arrival into London was 4 hours late! all the others were later! I think well and truly the 2% has been used up in massive costs the last couple of weeks!:confused:

[PIOT Bord]

Looks like 3 international flights didn't get away tonight - QF1, QF73, QF187. The only winners out of the whole shebang is the hotels and the taxis.

The most popular line in the travel industry is " I want to book flight to ..... on any airline but Qantas.

[dragon man]

Just got in from work. The word at SIT is that the 3 flights that didnt get out tonight required 800 hotel rooms. Add in the transport, meals etc and do this every night and we are talking serious money.

[mrpaxing]

:ugh:currently all major hotels in Sydney having a blast cashing in on qantas. the hilton in town has been full the last couple of weeks courtesy of QF. Add all the other pubs,upline hotels etc. and its going into millions and millions of dollars. :ugh:

[PitPin]

During the first week of the P.I.A. Qantas spent approx 75000 dollars on PAX accomodation in Mel alone .

[max autobrakes]

How much were the Engineers asking for again?
How much did the Strike Breakers cost?
How much has these delays cost?
When are the institutional investors going to demand geoff (my ego is bigger than your's) fix this?
So many questions ,so few answers!

[Jabawocky]

Hello Media

Read the above three posts, then do some research to be sure its accurate:hmm: and post it on the front page of the papers! And the Fin review too.

I am not a big fan of the unions and silly wage claims, but this is vastly different. This management stupidity is beyond belief.

J:ok:

[ZK-NSJ]

any ideas what the delays will be like into next week,
im booked on qf568 per-syd, and qf163 syd-akl on the 12th,
theres a one hour connect at sydney, is there a good chance one or both flights will be delayed?

cheers

[QFKFY]

zk-nsj,
I don't have the answer for your questions, but I do have a question for you though, why did you book 2 flights so close to each other? Do you realise you arrive in T3 and have to go on transit bus to international terminal and then security check point? You reckon you'll board the flight within 1 hour? You really are pushing your luck, whether the flights are delayed or not.

[Big M]

theres a one hour connect at sydney, is there a good chance one or both flights will be delayed?



mmm....Yes

[Aurora Romanova]

Cant wait to see when it returns to service......

[Going Boeing]

Hi Aurora, please advise which one?

[qfguy]

VH-OJS - bad smell in flight deck

And roll on the jokes.........

[Konehead]

Hello Media
Read the above three posts, then do some research to be sure its accurate:hmm: and post it on the front page of the papers! And the Fin review too.

I am not a big fan of the unions and silly wage claims, but this is vastly different. This management stupidity is beyond belief.

These arent just any hotel rooms. They're 5 star. Assume $150 -$200/night.

Add to that:

Meal vouchers for 800 @ $30/pax = $24,000.
Transport to city: $???
Cabs home for Sydney-based pax: $???
The 55 strikebreakers in serviced apartments in Sydney, receiving wages and meal allowances. I'll leave out the "positioning" travel and all company training expenses, which wouldn't be cheap either. Accommodation: assume 55 x $150 - $200/night = $8250 - $11,000/night; 55 x meal expenses claimable @ approx $100/day = $5,500/day; wages: 55 x $100,000 for a 6 month contract = $29,400 in wages/day. Or at least $43,150 PER DAY! Many of these "alternative workers" have been contracted for almost 6 months now. If the dispute stretches into more than 6 months, their contract rate for the second 6 months is $140,000/6 months, or about $750/day x 55 = $41,000/day!
Loss of pax loyalty: priceless
Bad media: priceless
Word of mouth: it's an old truism that you'll tell one person about a positive experience, but you'll tell ten people about a negative one - priceless.
Engineers not taking Annual Leave is a liability on the company books: $???
Engineers taking sickies due to inability to take leave and working so hard on the clapped out fleet: $??? loss of productivity
Engineers no longer going "above and beyond": $???

[*Lancer*]

My concern is to what extent the industrial action delays are covering up more serious issues that have been simmering in the background. Industrial action can make a very convenient scapegoat for the outcome of some longer term decisions by management.

[kotoyebe]

zk-nsj,
I don't have the answer for your questions, but I do have a question for you though, why did you book 2 flights so close to each other? Do you realise you arrive in T3 and have to go on transit bus to international terminal and then security check point? You reckon you'll board the flight within 1 hour? You really are pushing your luck, whether the flights are delayed or not.

Why did he book the 2 flights so close together? Because he can. That is the legal MCT in SYD. My area regularly dumps 20-30 connecters from the 163 to the 43 because of this stupidity. Whenever we ask for the MCT to be extended in SYD to something more reasonable..eg 1.30hr..for operational reasons, we get laughed down by marketing. They demand only an hour because it's easier to sell. Another example of people with no idea pulling the strings.

When was the last time the QF568 ran on time with a classic for more than a few days???

[Konehead]

My concern is to what extent the industrial action delays are covering up more serious issues that have been simmering in the background. Industrial action can make a very convenient scapegoat for the outcome of some longer term decisions by management.

B747-400 A-Checks used to be scheduled every 500 hours flying time, with specific tasks incorporated in each A-Check. Well, in his infinite wisdom, the former Sydney Base Maintenance Manager changed that interval to 1000 hours and also removed some tasks from the check. Last I heard, he wanted to stretch the interval to 1250 hours. This is the guy who is now in charge of the A380 maintenance program.
Be afraid. Very afraid.
I should be fair: it's all perfectly legal as per the manufacturer. But Qantas Engineering used to be so respected for maintaining aircraft, the manufacturers used to come to us to ask our advice on how we maintained our aircraft so well, eg we used to hold the record for time on wing for engines. But since MH the manager of Aircraft Customer Services (a department of Qantas Engineering) messed with the engine maintenance, we have B737 engines that regularly don't meet thrust targets and B767 engines being removed after 6 weeks, not months or even years.
We are at the end of the world. We regularly make the aircraft perform to the utmost of their capabilities every day. They therefore need a little more than the minimum mandated maintenance recommended by the manufacturer. And remember, the B747-400s aren't spring chickens any more.

[FCMC]

B747-400 A-Checks used to be scheduled every 500 hours flying time, with specific tasks incorporated in each A-Check. Well, in his infinite wisdom, the former Sydney Base Maintenance Manager changed that interval to 1000 hours and also removed some tasks from the check. Last I heard, he wanted to stretch the interval to 1250 hours.Alaska Airlines thought that was a good idea as well.Lots of Lubrication required on a A check!

Alaska Airlines' extension of its lubrication interval for its MD-80 horizontal stabilizer components, , based on Boeing's extension of the recommended lubrication interval increased the likelihood that a missed or inadequate lubrication would result in excessive wear of jackscrew assembly acme nut threads and, therefore, was a direct cause of the excessive wear and contributed to the Alaska Airlines flight 261 accident.

In the aftermath of the crash of Flight 261, the FAA ordered U.S. carriers to increase the lubrication interval to every 650 hours.

[pcaccc]

Just a humble gold ff slf here.....

Delays: qf571 syd-per yesterday July 2. Hey it was windy and they were down to 1 runway apparently, couldn't be qantas' fault..strange though, all others were only 10 - 15 mins, whereas we were delayed approx 90 mins. The Captain was kind enough to explain: 'the plane came in from New Zealand and was abandoned at the International Terminal, so it took an hour to get it over to the domestic terminal, and then the airbridge wasn't working and it took another 30 minutes to fix that'!

Crew also seemed down at least 1 - but still great happy service and thanks to the Captain for putting the foot down and catching up about half an hour, no mean feet with a 737 into the wind. Probably stuffed the fuel bill but I for one appreciated it!

[Rongotai]

Tomorrow morning's QF26 is showing as 5 hrs. late into AKL. No surprises there - but why is it arriving from Nadi?

[speedbirdhouse]

Now leaving early tomorrow morning.

[ZK-NSJ]

i booked those flights caus the only other available auckland flight showing online was departing sometime in the afternoon, not wanting a longish wait,
i normally book on qf45 to chch, but the bastards want an extra 300 odd bucks for that,

[Jabawocky]

but the bastards want an extra 300 odd bucks for that,

And the bastards will want a lot more than that when YOU miss the flight!:ooh:

[kotoyebe]

And the bastards will want a lot more than that when YOU miss the flight!

Not exactly. QF is still a full service airline. When QF is delayed and missconnects to another QF flight, unlike LCC's, we deem that to be our fault, and not the PAX fault. As long as the booking was made with at least minimum connecting time, then we move them FOC. Even if the bookings are made seperately..ie 1 for the PER/SYD and 1 for the SYD/AKL, we still move them FOC, and quite regularly use other carriers to get them where they need to be.

If QF deem that the minimum time required between DOM and INT at SYD is 1hr, why should the customer pay when we can't get them to their connecting flight. Like I said, we are still a full service airline.........

[1746]

Supposedly!!!!!!............................................ ......
Unfortunately, the reality is somewhat different!!!!!

[Stagger Lee]

Heard a good comment today

We (engineers) will cave in before Dixon, because having a human heart we care about the damage and hurt being done to our customers :(

[tnfixer]

Last flight Mel to Syd (737) missed curfew 115 pax. A/c defect
Ferry flt (767) Mel to Syd missed curfew. Crew out of hours.
OGE finally made it out of Syd arrived with a bleed fault, u/s Melbourne
OGI ferried BNE - MEL arrived on an ATP which expired this morning, u/s Melbourne.
But it's all our fault.

[kotoyebe]

QF5/04JUL now QF8005/05JUL...only 16 hours late.

There goes some more of that "war chest".

But the hotel people are happy!

[blueloo]

OGI is a complete bucket of poo. I wish the gingerbeers would say enough is enough - ground the jets and fix them. Rather than just keep adding stuff to the tech log. A plane completely out of service would surely be more problematic to QF than just a delay.

And whilst I fully support the engineers, I think that in some respects, the MELs and HOLD items are cumulatively going to cause a problem somewhere - and I dont mean to QF management. Somewhere some pro company turkey is going to take a jet with a combination of MELS which shouldn't be accepted, or unfortunately some management engineers are going to flog of an MEL as something else and it wont be picked up until to late.

[QFinsider]

Just hold the line....

Recognising operational excellence in whatever part of the company has been ignored by this so called "management". The result of their leadership is a totally disfunctional company with a workforce that is totally disengaged.


Dixon ought think about buying that dog......

[blow.n.gasket]

They put mad dogs "down" don't they?:}

[ZK-NSJ]

i wonder how shares in hilton, sheraton etc etc are doing right now

[dragon man]

QF26 ex LAX on Tues left LA 3 hrs late arrived Nadi with a hydraulic leak. Cabin crew walked after 20 hours. Cant blame them. 380 pax into hotels. Tech and cabin crew paxed up from Aukland. Leak fixed planned departure 1800 LT Thursday night. Ready to go pax falls ill further 3 hour delay. Tech crew pax to Nadi Wed pax home Sat. CC , pax to Aukland today and 3 to Sydney tomorrow. Love to know the total cost.

[ZK-NSJ]

qf566 per-syd cancelled, aircraft still in sydney broken and unable to make curfew, (they are saying they couldnt get dispensation to leave) a lot more pissed off people here at the qantas terminal, perth passengers been offered taxi vouchers, out of town residents, a night in the sheraton, i let out a few cursed words , till i realised i was booked on qf568, which is ok, but running about an hour late,

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

How much does a taxi cost from Sydney to Perth? :}

[aulglarse]

Enema, if you are flying west today then it may be quicker by taxi!

[UnderneathTheRadar]

ABC radio reporting 14 flights from Sydney cancelled yesterday "due to recent industrial action by engineers" and a consequential "back log of maintenance".

[hotnhigh]

Crews paxing on EK because there is more guarantee to get to where they have to be, on time! Amazing.
One thing for sure, the entire front line workforce around the international network shake their heads and are so alarmed at what GD and his team have created, and utterly dismayed at the treatment handed out to our premium passengers. But fully supportive of the engineers actions.
Everyone, depending on their roles, have had a gutful of having to attempt to provide a product to our customers with the carcass that has been created by the vultures at the top.
I suppose it has unified everyone however. Unified, in their contempt for the hero and his team at the top.
It's sunday, where have the wheels fallen off today? Mmmmm Sydney, Hong Kong, LAX or LHR?
Why not try all of the above.
Good on ya Geoff, Looking after your premium customers always!:ugh:

[qfguy]

And apart from LAX, LHR and HKG, and according to qantas.com.au it looks like SFO has another overnight delay.

How much longer can this go for???

[Toolpants]

The Sat morning 743 to Syd that broke in Perth, was fixed at about 1800. They could not send it to Syd because of SYD curfew. They then sent it to Mel Empty as a positioning flight as another 743 was due in Perth later.

Another 743 finally came to Perth. Although its STD “from Perth” was supposed to be about 1600 Saturday, it didn’t arrive until 0030 Sunday.

The plan was for a quick turn around.

Pax were all on (full load) by about 0200 and then…. Flight crew out of hours.

Apparently the ground staff were all too scared to tell the Pax. These were the Sat morning Pax still trying to get to Syd.

0230 Sunday- very angry pax file back into the terminal.

I think the A/C is still there.

[Jabawocky]

You would think Virgin could make a killing on this route if the advertised accordingly.....and supplied the goods!:ooh:

J

[mozza1972]

Oh Virgin out of Per are full to the brim and have been for quite a while now.....Qf topping up where they can...

[HF3000]

Maybe DJ should redeploy those 777s on PER flights and make a motza picking up stranded QF pax.

[Konehead]

Maybe DJ should redeploy those 777s on PER flights and make a motza picking up stranded QF pax.

Pity they dont get here till Nov.
In only 2 months, we have 5 U/S B744s, 4 U/S B767s, numerous aircraft approaching 110% overruns for critical maintenance, EAs and ATPs being issued at record levels, a dispatch reliability of +/-50%, down from +/-80 - 90%, money spent hand over fist on accommodation, meal vouchers, hotels & cabfares for pax from cancelled flights; feeding, housing, training and paying an "alternative workforce"; lost business as pax flee the airline and the airline sheds foreign operators contracts, etc etc etc.
I don't think the company can last another 2 months at this rate, let alone 4!

Spotted recently in a QF lounge:

http://www.crikey.com.au/Media/images/qantas1-67ceb8e4-a984-4ffe-bded-6aee70609349.jpg

http://www.crikey.com.au/Media/images/qantas2-2d28172d-3535-481c-a1f7-3189f6e30bc2.jpg

According to Crikey, it lasted at least 90 minutes before it was removed.

[stubby jumbo]

.......the other issue which is REALLY starting to bite is the route checks. The longer this dispute goes on with cancellations ad nauseum-the guys in Scheduling are all but giving up trying to roster pilots for their respective checks.
Word from IOC is that they will be cancelling flights from next week-not because of Maintenance but because there are no pilots to fly the kites.......particularly the 767 and 744 fleets.

Ouch :ouch:

[gavsterau]

Last Thursday I was heading up to Sydney from Melbourne on the supposed 8:30am flight. We got told around 8:30 that there would be a 30 minute delay, at 9am got told of another 15 minute delay... I'm sure you see where I'm going...

At 10:30 we get told the flight is canceled and another flight will replace it. The original flight number was 416 and the new flight number was 8416.

The captain was very specific when telling us that the flight we were on was a supplemental flight. Thanks Qantas!

Do they do this so they can say the replacement flight departed and arrived on time? I assume if they kept then original flight number it would count as a 3 hour delayed flight.

To top it off they didn't load the luggage on the flight, nor cater it properly! Apparently they didn't want to delay us any further. Hhmmm thanks.

They then flew the whole flight at what seemed like 15,000 feet. Again, so we could get to Sydney faster.

Long story short, finally get to Sydney at 1310...

It was a long day after taking the 2 hour delay for the return flight into account as well.

g

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I don't think the company can last another 2 months at this rate, let alone 4!

Net cash held at 31 December 2007 was $2,910 million

$2.9 Billion. I'm guessing the company can last a hell of a lot longer than 2 or 4 months! Especially as I doubt they are actually making a loss at moment. The hand that is feeding you comes from a very deep pocket.

Word from IOC is that they will be cancelling flights from next week-not because of Maintenance but because there are no pilots to fly the kites.......particularly the 767 and 744 fleets.

Ouch

Ouch - especially for those guys that have come to expect the extra cash that comes with regular flying.

[Keg]

To top it off they didn't load the luggage on the flight, nor cater it properly! Apparently they didn't want to delay us any further. Hhmmm thanks.

Customer feedback on surveys says that they want to get there on time domestically and bugger the food and bugger the bags- particularly if QF is going to ship them to your home or workplace anyway. Of course I don't reckon they've ever surveyed someone who has just gotten off a 1-3 hour flight without being fed or watered! :eek:

[ron burgandy]

Which is probably true Keg, if you actually got them there on time rather than delay to load catering.
What the survey doesn't take into account is once you've f#&ked everyone around for 3 hours another 10 minutes to cater the airplane is probably going to help rather than hinder the situation at that point........:ugh: But hey, what do we know, right?

[employes perspective]

anyone wanting to start an airline out of Perth now is the time,you would make a killing,all you would have to do is run to schedule and charge what you like,Qantas would be finished on this route:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[2FarCanard]

I don't know if this is a record for a delay without a cancellation but it would have to be close.

Friend and his wife AND 3 kids (7,4,22 months) turn up at Sydney at 10am for a 12pm flight to Melbourne.

A couple of PAs telling of delays. After about two hours no PAs and a departure time that magically rolls further and further with no announcements or any feedback.

The flight left 2 mins before curfew and and arrived in MEL at 1245am.

All he said to me was, if they just said it was going to be that long he would have gone home. I guess the eternal optimist always thinks it could only be another hour.

From all reports it was near riot toward the end.

Brilliant

[indamiddle]

2FC, if you are looking at record delays take a gander at QF11 scheduled to leave friday (last week). look on the departures for sydney today on the official qantas website. says it is estimated to be leaving tonight. your mate has nothing to complain about!!

[ron burgandy]

I've abbreviated the article;



A lesson in how to fly by the seat of your pants



Michael West (http://business.smh.com.au/opinion/michael-west)

July 15, 2008
Page 1 of 2

And despite the news on Virgin Blue, Qantas is the big story. Notwithstanding oil price pressure and incipient signs of easing demand, the airline is operationally in turmoil.
Looking at yesterday's flight data alone: QF1 to London, scheduled to leave on Saturday at 5pm, left yesterday at 8.20am. QF 127 to Hong Kong, due out on Sunday at 10.45am, left at 2pm yesterday. QF73 to San Francisco, due out at 1.55pm on Sunday, left at 6pm yesterday.
QF62 to Johannesburg, scheduled to leave at 10am, left at 4pm. QF11 to Los Angeles, due out at 1.20pm, was rescheduled to leave at 10.15 last night (fingers crossed). QF73 to San Francisco, due out at 1.55pm, has been delayed until 10.15 this morning and QF5 to Frankfurt via Singapore was scheduled for 3.55pm was delayed till 8.30 last night. That's just one day's worth.

The impact on bookings is anyone's guess but the cost of the delays is huge, in staff costs, extra transport, meals and hotel rooms. On Friday night in Los Angeles, the airline had to put up 700 people in hotels after two 747 flights were canned. There is even gossip on the airline chat forums about pilots being flown first class to Bangkok on Emirates to ensure they got there on time.
Even before Qantas engineers jacked up and refused to work overtime a few weeks ago, the on-time performance was sketchy. Thankfully, domestic routes are holding up well, although there are signs the slowdown is biting. About 35 domestic flights were cancelled yesterday.
On overseas routes, however, some flights that were bulging at full capacity six months ago are now closer to break even. Thursday's QF1 was showing 66 economy seats, 32 business seats and one first-class spot vacant as of time of publication yesterday. QF31 had 48, 17 and five seats vacant in those respective classes.
While the trans-Pacific slots are holding up well, Europe is coming off. Should economic conditions deteriorate further - and that's a good bet - so will Qantas yields and load factors. This means there are not a lot of reasons to buy the airline right now. Further, when its long-serving chief executive Geoff Dixon departs, his successor is likely to swing the axe, as they do.
Given that the fleet, ex-Jetstar, is a tad old by the standard of its top-flight peers (9-11 years), and given some of the accounting treatments, the pain could be palpable. Thanks to capitalised development costs on software and the like, the airline's bottom line has been inflated by more than 10 per cent for years. Also, rather than the traditional three- to five-year accounting treatment for aircraft carrying values, Qantas employs a unique asset impairment approach that spans up to 20 years.
[email protected] ([email protected])
Go to smh.com.au/businessday for Michael West's comments throughout the day.

[blueloo]

Having just copped the QF5 delay - 8 hours plus out of Sydney, I managed to experience QFs customer service first hand. To say there was none is not far from the truth. 1 person advised us at check in of a 5 hour delay. No updates, details or anything else, until a whiteboard was put up I think at around 6.30pm with no announcements - just the same information advised at check-in - a 5 hour delay.

At about 8pm a rather rude bloke with red tie came out and started being rather sarcastic and rude to passengers whilst handing out $15 vouchers to be used in a nearly fully closed airport (due to renovations) 1 coffee shop, wine bar and news agent open.

We were allowed to use the transit lounge with lovely economy self service snack on Q (crap on Q) then at about 9.30 - with no announcement passengers left to board the flight.

At the gate said bloke with red tie was performing a bingo night to geriatrics. Incredibly rude as he swapped boarding passes.

Eventually boarding started and the way they (qantas staff) treated passengers was even worse - dragging people out of line and yelling at them if they werent frequent flyers.

Honestly, some of the most disgusting treatment from QF staff (employed in a customer service role) that I have ever seen.

[packrat]

This not an excuse for bad behaviour but QF Frontline staff are under resourced and under enormous strain.
This type of behaviour is indicative of people who are about to walk