Bouncing on landing

[snapper41]

What's the best way to cope with a bouncing landing? Go around? Hang on and hope for the best?

[Chilli Monster]

If you've got a LONG runway (At least 3 times longer than you'd usually need) then I'd say persevere - relax, adopt the landing attitude, let the speed reduce and allow the aircraft to settle.

If you haven't got the above - Go-Around.

There is, however, only one reason to bounce on landing - you're flying the approach way to fast. On that basis alone going around is the preferred option because; a) You'd be amazed how quickly the fence gets closer; and b) If you're doing it then you obviously need the approach practice.

Nail the speed, stabilise the aircraft - the perfect landing nearly always follows.

[mixture]

Avoid them in the first place.

Time for some time with an instructor, I'd say. Or if you're still a student, perhaps time for a change of instructor !

[mostlytossas]

Don't you mean too fast a descent rate CM? Too fast a speed usually results in a balloon or long floating hold off prior to touchdown.( unless you mean the bounce at the end of the float if done too high).

[Chilli Monster]

In my youth, converting to a C172, I had a tendency to fly the approach at PA38 speeds rather than the 10Kts slower that the 172 required.

The bouncing PIO's down the runway were a sight to be seen.

So - RoD normal, speed 10Kts too fast. As you flare you will either bounce off the ground, or balloon and PIO down the runway. Reason for this - the flare increases the angle aof attack and therefore increases lift, so bounce occurs.

RoD too fast on the other hand. Yes, you may bounce, though the more likely scenario is you'll slide along the runway with a very splayed and broken undercarriage.

[mostlytossas]

No mate the last example you describe is a crash and the other is how you get a balloon. A bounce is caused by the wheels (usually main as the nose wheel will usually collapse : see crash ) hitting the ground too heavily before the wings create enough lift in the flair to arrest it. This can be caused by a number of ways such as too late a flair, too low Aof A flair, approach too slow for the weight or too much flap for the weight causing too fast a rate of desent. I don't know what the original bloke that started the thread was flying but I assume he is a student so likely a 2 seat trainer. All of them with 2 bums on board especially if they are 100Kg or thereabout with even 1/2 fuel are about all up weight so the rate of decent will be high if the speed washes off on approach. Add to this full flap like they like to teach these days and that makes matters worse. Bouncing is odds on in this configuration if you don't adjust the speed and rate of decent to allow for it.
Many years ago an old instructor told me that unless you really need full flap due to say a short runway if you are max weight then only use 2 stages of flap and see the difference. I did and in 25 years flying cessnas and pipers can't remember the last bounce I had, improves your landings no end in small puddle jumpers with little difference in the stall speed.

[snapper41]

I'll confess - I'm not a student, but I guess novice P1 with around 60 hrs solo. I just did a bad landing - not a regular occurrence, but boy did it make me feel sheepish, especially as everyone was lounging outside the clubhouse in the sun watching the comings and goings. I don't know why it happened, but I suspect the above explanation of too low in the flare might be it.

[RTN11]

If you have a big bounce, I would put the throttle in and go around. The problem is that if you come down from your bounce even harder, you will bounce higher, or just break something.

I used to bounce or just float quite a bit in my early stages of training (in a PA28), and then started only using 2 stages of flap, and as mostlytossas says, it really works.

You really don't need full flap in those things unless it's a pretty short runway. Now i fly a PA38 which only has 2 stages anyway.

[TotalBeginner]

I don't know why it happened, but I suspect the above explanation of too low in the flare might be it.

What aircraft type was it?

[IO540]

The usual reason for a bounce or a baloon is landing too fast.

It doesn't really matter whether you fly the final at 300kt :) but the speed during the flare is really important. Work hard to get that speed nailed. It it's meant to be 70kt then make it 70kt, not 80.

Two things really matter with landings: flying down the runway centreline, and touching down at the right speed. Work hard on those two and life is a lot easier. Get one or both wrong and everything is a mess.

The stall warner should just come on at or immediately before touchdown.

The rest is type specific.

The angle of descent is not really an issue. I can do the same landing with a 3 deg slope or a 6 deg slope. If the speed is right during the flare, it will touch down and stay down.

Settings things up early on saves workload later on. So, fly downwind at the right speed. Fly base at the right speed. Fly the final (with landing flap) at the right speed.

[Final 3 Greens]

There is, however, only one reason to bounce on landing - you're flying the approach way to fast.

Mmmmmmm.

Usually one reason, but I wouldn't say only one reason.

e.g. take a Cessna with sprung steel u/c.

Land too slow, with high RoD.

See what happens and prepare to fill in lots of forms:E

[BartV]

Bounced landing, do a balked landing, always go around.. there can go so much wrong, just apply full power, plane will stop going to the ground, pitch nose up, once positive climb retract flaps

[VFE]

I think you will find that nose to the horizon will serve you better in a go-around rather than simply "pitching up" - your speed will be low and you will have a loss of stability with a high nose attitude in some training types so nose to the horizon together with your full power and that way you will get an increase of airspeed ready for the climb thus ensuring a wings-level attitude during the recovery too as you will have a better chance of seeing the horizon ahead of you. Then climb away and retract flap in stages. Forget the radio call until you are stable in the climb.

VFE.

[BIRK]

Go-around should be very high on the "things to consider-list" when you feel the airplane bounching. I know personally two cases when a pilot tried to recover from a bounce by quickly lowering the nose, both of wich resulted in a nose-gear landing, followed by a complete failiure of the nose leg.

If its a high bounce (10ft+) and ALOT of runway ahead (2 km +) then its probably ok to try and recover, else: go-around

[LH2]

What's the best way to cope with a bouncing landing?

If there are witnesses, blame it on windshear :E

(Without witnesses, it didn't happen)



Coat, etc.

[BartV]

There is, however, only one reason to bounce on landing - you're flying the approach way to fast.


Yes, also could be the round-out is initiated at a too low altitude

[S-Works]

Oh, I thought they were normal........
:p

[Billredshoes]

Hi you will receive a lot of advice here about this subject some good some bad.
Mine is simple I still get it wrong some times thats the joy / fun / challenge of flying.



Or put it an other way.

“ The Bigger the Crowd the Bigger the Bounce or no one around
thats when you kiss the ground and do not know that you have landed "

[Mark1234]

Well, that got a clear answer didn't it!

There are several reasons, factors and options. You're ahead of some in being bothered by it, and working to correct it - but you'll have to evaluate what's causing it in a specific case:

In my opinion, and my case it's *usually* too much speed, and trying to land, rather than waiting for the plane to land that sets up the bad landing. However, too high ROD can also cause the bounce, especially in a cessna with the springy(er) u/c - a warrior absorbs better). That high ROD can be caused by too late a flare, too low speed, or both. Obviously the slow bounce is the dangerous one.

If you have space and control - I believe you can stick with it, but never put the stick forward! If you're slow, or short of space, give it power and go around. Initially on go around I look for level, then speed, then pitch. Don't simply pitch up without being sure it's got sufficient speed to fly. Also think flap retraction.

e.g. first time I flew a 172 4 up, I flared late (where I would 1 up), whilst a bit quick. The resulting bounce was rather special(!). I did have plenty of space, and plenty of flying speed, so leveled it off, and got it at the 2nd try.

FYI, I'm of similar powered experience to yourself.

[Piper.Classique]

There is, however, only one reason to bounce on landing - you're flying the approach way to fastUm. bit oversimplified. You are trying to put the aircraft on the ground too fast would be more nearly correct. Round out, hold off. If the approach is too fast there will be a long hold-off. If you keep the aircraft in the air until it has no lift remaining (because there is not enough airflow over the wing to provide enough lift to fly) then you won't bounce unless you hit a really good mole tump :p If you don't do that and you bounce you can do one of many things:

Go around
Start a new approach
Wait and let the aircraft run out of puff
Catch the bounce with a tadge of power
Pretend you meant it
Ask the molecatcher to visit


The great trick is knowing which is best. And that depends on lots of little things like how long is the runway, how high was the bounce, what are you flying (hard to go around in a glider) how strong the undercarriage is, how many glider pilots are screaming for a launch, how badly you need a wee, how well you know your aircraft, how late at night you are writing this.....;)

[BartV]

If you have space and control - I believe you can stick with it, but never put the stick forward! If you're slow, or short of space, give it power and go around. Initially on go around I look for level, then speed, then pitch. Don't simply pitch up without being sure it's got sufficient speed to fly. Also think flap retraction

You can put the stick forward, that is if you ADD POWER...

I'm more into adding power and pitch up simultaneously and wait for positive climb to retract flaps. If you add power without pitch up, and you try to level off like you say, you have the chance in accelerating yourself into the ground.....:D

[fernytickles]

Remember to count all the bounces so you can log each one as a landing.... :ok:

[markkal]

Taildragger pilots know it best....

They know what happens if not reacting quickly, first bounce then a second one and a third, all of increasing magnitude..with eventually a stall and hard contact and some bent metal.

So no shame, save your day; When things go wrong, react promptly

FULL THROTTLE AND GO AROUND !!!!!!!!

Don't start thinking too much to the point that you may apprehend landing and not focuss correctly on the procedure.

After all when parking your car and miscalculate when reversing hitting the sidewalk what do you do ???? Just that "GO AROUND" get out and start again !!!!!!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

Too many dogmatic, "one club golfer", replies on this thread.

Piper.Classique sums it up in his post.

Flying revolves around decision making, context is everything.

What may save you one day, may cause a crash another day.

Maintain situational awareness, consider your options (albeit pretty quickly in this scenario) and then act decisively.

[xraf]

Excellent post by 3 greens

However, my 2p is that in this day of relaxing standards (see posts, many and various) a new(ish) say sub 100 hrs, pilot would be well advised to have a standard response of throwing away a bounce/hard landing and going around. There is a lot to consider in order to execute a well recovered bounce in a fairly short space of time for a new/inexperienced or more likely non-current (at least in go arounds) pilot.

Obviously everything is context based and if there is no room to go around then the prevailing conditions will apply but I have to say that it all comes back to the approach. Good, steady, well considered approaches rarely result in a bad landings, short overruns or white knuckle go arounds.

On a brighter note a pal (Tng Capt) recently had to lean over and 'pop the wheels down' on a 757 on short finals for a relatively experienced PF. He said "I think you'll need those" The reply? "I know but I've only just got it stable!"

We can all make a bad approach, its easy to solve unless you let it go too far with worries about money/ego/etc. Just go around, enjoy the extra long ride and set up a text book approach for no.2. this will probably impress the passengers/onlookers etc anyway and in any event if you need an excuse you could claim it was a go around practice so you were current if, in the unlikely event, you ever needed to do one for real! ;)

Happy Ldgs to all
Xraf:ok: