Heathrow runway change from 28L to 27L

[Amos Keeto]

Hi there,

I am building a scale model of London Heathrow Airport in 1/400th scale as it was in the 1960s. I want to get everything authentic, so need to know when they changed the Runway heading from 28L to 27L? Had there been a magnetic change or wasn't this runway accurately calculated in the first place.

Thanks

Adrian

[clicker]

Hi Adrian,

The change would have been down the the ever shifting magvar, can't remember when it happened but was quite a few years ago (poss in the 1980's?).

[bookworm]

I had in my mind that it was summer 1987, but it might be a year or so out.

HD mentions it here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2540877&postcount=6), maybe he can remember the year.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

2nd July, 1987 due to change in magnetic variation. 28R changed to 27R too!

[slip and turn]

Simultaneously? :p

Twelve paint brushes, maybe? :

Two for blacking out 8's

Two for painting 7's

Two for blacking out 1's

Two for blacking out 0's

Two for painting 0's

Two for painting 9's ? :ok:


Or on the first night did they settle for 8 brushes and make do with the 09's offset a bit to the right, then let HD give them a final tug with his Reliant Robin? :}

[arrffaa]

that's one reason i left!
now look what's happened - block 26 outer / 31 outer / 16 / 17 (all for 28R)
alphas / northern dual / comet corner / rwy 23 / the tens - all GONE!

so, it's right for left and up for down

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yep - no more long calculations on nights to find the "average block"!!

[Amos Keeto]

We had a wonderful nostalgic thread going on London Heathrow Airport memories that featured my photos of my 1960s scale model. This thread was very useful for gathering material for my model but for some strange reason the mods. closed/locked it.

Now my model is progressing further and I need your help!

Please can anyone kindly answer any of these questions:


What the distance is between the runway sidelights on Heathrow's runways?
How far from the end of the runway is the first row of lights on the raised CL5B?
Does anyone have any close-up photos of the cargo hangars in use at Heathrow in the 1960s? The main hangar had 'HUNTING-CLAN' painted on the north side and SEABOARD WORLD AIRLINES on the south side (I think). I need close-ups and prefearbly any ariel views, as there are plenty of distant shots from the Terminal area on A-Net. There were two other cargo hangars used by Air India and Pan Am, which i would also welcome photos of if possible?

[Talkdownman]

London Heathrow Airport in 1/400th scale as it was in the 1960s
That make it bigger than my garden....

[Amos Keeto]

Well it's only a quarter of it. If the whole airport was modelled, it would be 28ft long!

[Amos Keeto]

Thanks very much Peter. That lets me out from including the first row of lights on my model as that equates to about 2ft from the threshold in 1/400 scale, which is off the model. The r/w sidelights can now be installed 6" apart.

[Minesthechevy]

AMos K -

How long is your project going to take, and will it eventually be on display somewhere...?

[Amos Keeto]

That's a leading question...how long is a piece of string? It will be an on-going project and when it has reached a respectable displayable standard I hope I can display it at a show. I have already been asked to show it in its present form at a Heathrow nostalgia reunion, but transporting it requires a van! Just to remind those reading this of what I am talking about, here are some of the pics on the original thread and in its original form:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/8JULY083-1.jpg


http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/Heathrow1962.jpg


http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/8JULY08.jpg



http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/Britanniaarrival-1.jpg

[ATCO Two]

OOPS sorry, but Block 86 was not there when 28L was the runway designator! It was built at a later date.

[Amos Keeto]

...and what might 'Block 86' be? Sorry but I am not that knowledgabe about LHR, never worked there and my experience was one or two visit each year throughout the 60s....when I was 12-14!

[ATCO Two]

Block 86 is where the Austrian Caravelle is waiting to line up.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yes, that wasn't there when I left in '93..

[Amos Keeto]

Ah right, well this is because this layout was based on today's LHR pattern so I could change periods and have BA airliners on it. Then I realised that R/W 27L was 28L in the '60s, so I changed the runway markings but nothing else (call it 'modellers licence. if you like). Now the 'new' layout is based on an accurate photographic image for the period so will not include Block 86. One day I might do a later version, but the '60s gives so much more variety of airliner types to portray - pistons, turboprops and early classic jets.

[Minesthechevy]

Well, it'll certainly keep you out of mischief for a while - congratulations on the quality....

[edinv]

LHR/EGLL is not my patch either. I dont remember the BEA DC3s! That said, I think BEA retired the DC3 in May 1962. Last route in H&I over ILY-CAL-GLA. - Well gone from London by then! The DLH B727 is a product of the late 60s.(1966/1967 perhaps?)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I logged LH 727s there 1960-64, but they were probably there some years later.

BEA Daks, or Pionairs as they used to call them, were 1950s and the latest I logged one was 1960, although some were to be seen in the liveries of other airlines until some years later.

Aaahh.. thoses big stairs, not Panam SuperStairs perchance? They used to ferry them across to the Panam hangar and a colleague of mine used to sing:
"Here he comes, SuperStairs, going to the hangar to collect some spares".

[Amos Keeto]

Well yes, 'modellers licence' again having a BEA DC-3 and a Lufthansa 727 together which never would have met! The last BEA DC-3 service was indeed on 10th May 1962 between Islay-Cambletown-Glasgow and the first Lufthansa Boeing 727 service into LHR was in May 1964 (not before!). Since that photo was taken, I have since added Starways and British Westpoint Airlines DC-3s to the collection, which would be more authentic.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

oooppss... sorry. You are correct about 727s. With my poor eyesight I was reading my logs for 720s.

[Amos Keeto]

Just an an 'ad on' to this, I am working on a book marking the 70th anniversary of Heathrow next year. Does anyone have any original prints of the official aerial views showing the BEA and BOAC engineering bases in the '50s and '60s that they would be kind enough to scan to include in this?

[Mr Optimistic]

AK, how is it you haven't aged in 5 years ;)

[DaveReidUK]

Just an an 'ad on' to this, I am working on a book marking the 70th anniversary of Heathrow next year. Does anyone have any original prints of the official aerial views showing the BEA and BOAC engineering bases in the '50s and '60s that they would be kind enough to scan to include in this?

Have you looked at the photos in Ian Anderson's book?

[Talkdownman]

Ian Anderson
Jethro Tull…?

[DaveReidUK]

No, the author of "Heathrow: From Tents to Terminal 5"

A different sort of living in the past. :O

[Minesthechevy]

Bloody depressing is when you smile at reading some guys whose posts make reference to your era of music, then you realise why you shouldn't call them 'old guys'.:O

[Musket90]

Minesthechevy

That era of music will live on forever and not "in the past". You need to be "Thick as a Brick" not to appreciate it. I may have listened to some of it in your company.

Back to the subject thread. Back in July '87 I remember being involved in the planning of the 10/28 to 09/27 changeover. We hoped it wasn't going to rain on the night when the runway painted designators were changed and I believe it was dry. What a relief.

In those days the red/white holding point signs didn't have the designators, they just stated "Runway Ahead" so these didn't have to change. Nowadays all airport runway holding point red/white signs are required to show the runway designators, also some yellow/black info signs have runway numbers, so when magnetic variation changes require runway designations to change then there's a lot more for an airport to do than just repainting the runway numbers.

Time to listen again to "Aqualung" I think. Brilliant album

[Mr Optimistic]

From Tents to Terminal 5?

With a title like that it must have flown off the shelves.:zzz:

[ZOOKER]

This discussion is deteriorating rapidly. So I'm going 'Up The 'Pool', 'Teacher', please give my regards to 'Dr. Bogenbroom'.

[good egg]

Off-topic but here's a pic of them swapping the RW28 designator to RW27 at London City.... ;)
http://www.navjot-singh.com/uploads/3/1/7/4/3174873/9630477_orig.jpg

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Musket90.. were you Chef1, 2 or 3?

[Musket90]

HD - Affirm

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

We must have spoken many times on the wireless!

Take care and GL.. Brendan McCartney (Ex A Watch ATC).

[Musket90]

Yes I'm sure. Great times, great memories '87 to early '93

ATB
DMac

[DaveW]

Off-topic but here's a pic of them swapping the RW28 designator to RW27 at London City.... ;)
http://www.navjot-singh.com/uploads/3/1/7/4/3174873/9630477_orig.jpg

ge, that's fabulous. :D

For those that didn't click through:

http://www.navjot-singh.com/uploads/3/1/7/4/3174873/9630477_orig.jpg

[chevvron]

There's nothing going on at the other end of the runway so presumably it became Runway 10/27!!
With the shadows to the east, it must've been a saturday afternoon.

[DaveReidUK]

With the shadows to the east, it must've been a saturday afternoon.

No way. That's an RAF Chinook, must have been a weekday (though not a Friday afternoon, obviously). :O

[terrain safe]

It was the same day Stansted went from 05/23 to 04/22. Still get it wrong sometimes....

[ZOOKER]

Read somewhere that with the recent acceleration in the rate of change of magnetic variation, by 2050, EGCC could be 01/19. (Left and Right).
The next 'Geomagnetic Reversal', (like the Yellowstone 'Super-Volcano'), is way overdue.

[chevvron]

When the runway at Farnborough was being re-surfaced, I realised it would change from '25' to '24' within 12 months, so I made some enquiries and found they calculate rates of change in 4 year 'epochs' rather than just as they show it on half mil charts, so it was actually due to change within a couple of months, thus we were able to paint the new surface with 06/24 rather than have to re-paint it within 12 months.