Glenforsa Update

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

New thread .... Glenforsa is the subject topic

PPRuNe Radar

[Three Yellows]

CWW,

Thanks for posting that.

As there is little real news from ABC, can you confirm that Glenforsa and Oban are operating normally?


3Y

[Will88]

I was in Oban two days ago and it seemed to operating pretty normally, flew over Glenforsa as well - it was covered in sheep!

[Glenforsa Flyer]

can you confirm that Glenforsa and Oban are operating normally?



There have several aircraft into Glenforsa this week, we have had lots of dry, sunny weather so tht the runway is in very good shape.

GF

[HPPILOT]

WILL88
Monday to Friday there will be sheep practising curcuits on Glenforsa as it's 24hr PPR, they will be cleared, Weekends it should be clear.

Do not hesitate to PPR and try some of Brendan & Allisons hospitality at the Glenforsa Hotel :)

[Three Yellows]

Monday to Friday there will be sheep practising curcuits on Glenforsa

I hope they are Mode "S" equipped.

[Mike Cross]

Maybe it will get taken over by BAA?

[Ken Wells]

There have several aircraft into Glenforsa this week, we have had lots of dry, sunny weather so tht the runway is in very good shape

Glad to hear it, will be with you on Thursday God willing.

5 aircraft so far!!

[BRL]

The GA community is very close-knit in the UK. I know a lot of people both here in the UK as well as abroad.

Rumours start, word gets around and I get to know quite a bit of what is happening about most things.

Again, it is a small world, and people have to be careful what they say and to who they say it to.....

[Glenforsa Flyer]

and people have to be careful what they say and to who they say it to.....


Is'nt that why we have Pprune?

I think has Pprune provided a valuable service in preventing the odious Mr Jackson from carrying out his Machiavellian subterfuge outwith the public gaze.

I do believe that this was a definite factor in his early departure.

Many thanks

Glenforsa Flyer

[Cam Lobe]

Argyll's planned air service still stalled

Posted by John Patrick (http://www.inveraray.org.uk/xn/detail/u_1y8dkb0mwqy8t) on 25 April 2008 at 3:57pm
← Previous Post (http://www.inveraray.org.uk/profiles/blog/show?id=1977622%3ABlogPost%3A4332) | Next Post → (http://www.inveraray.org.uk/profiles/blog/show?id=1977622%3ABlogPost%3A4335) View Blog Posts (http://www.inveraray.org.uk/profiles/blog/list?user=1y8dkb0mwqy8t)

The Civil Aviation Authority remains unable to grant a licence to the Council for scheduled flights from Oban to the isles of Coll, Colonsay and Tiree. All the physical issues are resolved but the legal stand-off between the Council and Total Logistics Concepts (TLC), the fuel supplier based at the airstrip, continues.

This situation has seen admitted forced entry and damage to the site periphery; an act of potentially lethal sabotage by person unknown to the fuel supply of the strip’s fire engine, refusals to comply with the legally necessary checking in of all personnel going airside at the strip and threats of legal action on both sides.

The fire engine sabotage led to a scene worthy of Dad’s Army. With a private plane coming in for an emergency landing with its undercarriage auto-release seized, the fire crew, unable to start the engine of the appliance, attended the scene in a pick up truck and a minibus, wielding domestic fire extinguishers. Luckily the pilot managed to lower the gear manually - or farce could have become tragedy caused by someone quite deliberately.

Read the full story at For Argyll.com (http://forargyll.com/2008/04/25/argylls-planned-air-services-still-stalled-by-pantomime-conflict/)

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

Lots of flying at Glenforsa and Oban at the weekend, including a contingent from White Waltham.

Good to see.:D

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/CaptainF--kwitsBandofBrothers-1.jpg?

WW

[NorthSouth]

Anyone know who owns the Labrador? Leaving aside the fact that it looks like it's in the process of being sick, I'd love to know how you get a dog to behave in a light aircraft all the way from White Waltham to Oban. My dog won't even get in our car!

NS

[Glenforsa Flyer]

The dog is called Stella and lives at the Glenforsa Hotel, and you would look sick if you had been hanging out with Captain F**kwits Band of Brothers all weekend!


GF

[eharding]

The dog is called Stella and lives at the Glenforsa Hotel, and you would look sick if you had been hanging out with Captain F**kwits Band of Brothers all weekend!


Stella was just looking sad because her pals from F**kwit Formation were leaving. She was promised a ride in an 18T, but I gather from the grapevine that when she saw Captain FW's departure technique today she's re-considered, and reckons she'd rather have a go in the 52. Solo. She also likes RV8s, although apparently the wings are a bit too slippery for Labrador paws.

Fantastic past few days at Glenforsa, missing the place already.

[Ken Wells]

Well all I can say is visiting Oban Airport was a very pleasant experience mainly due to the fantastic service from Paul at TLC. Not many airports that refuel your aircraft while using their offices to make yourself a cup of Tea and eating their Jammy Dodgers. The place would die if it wasn't for him.
ATC need a bit of training but the ground handling was superb.

The Lochnell Arms Hotel, 5 min walk from the Airport was the biggest disappointment of our tour of the Western Isles. 8 of us walked there to have lunch, but after seeing the litter and tons of Ciggy Buts on piled up on the floor around the picnic tables and the Fireplace full of old toilet rolls and crisp bags we decided not to risk it.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0513.jpg

Shame because it is in a lovely location. How it deserves 3 stars from the Scottish Tourist board is beyond me.

Plockton had an interesting windshear approach. COL was empty as was TIRE. But the scenery is the best in the world.

Reminded me of the Billie Connolly tour of New Zealand as he flew down a Loch and exclaimed. "Look at the view its fantastic just like Scotland, only not as Good!"

It goes without saying that Glenforsa is the Jewel. Great food in the Glenforsa Hotel and a Pilot freiendly enviroment.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0422.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0466-1.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/CIMG1948.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0461.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0448.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/CIMG1927.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0543.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/DSCF0546.jpg

[False Capture]

Nice photos Ken, sounds and looks like you guys had a good trip.

The Gorrilla sent me a photo very similar to the last one you posted. The main difference, his was a photo of a pint of ale on the same Yak-52's wing. I guess you're more refined with bottles of red wine.;)

[HPPILOT]

Just got back from Glenforsa & Oban, both fields are open, and very friendly, Brendan and Ally at Glenforsa are the best 'Mine hosts', Scallops & Pork belly fantastic. Paul Keegan of TLC at Oban was ready to serve with a smile and the guys on the radio were very helpful.

It looks as though most of the previos Cr-p has left and all people involved at ground level just keen to move on and get lives.

On another note, Jura airstrip, is in reasonable condition but has some fairly deep ruts created by motor vehicles in the centre of the runway. I will find a way of posting photos.

[Say again s l o w l y]

That's great that it all seems to be getting back to normal. So get up and visit. No excuses now!

[Glenforsa Flyer]

A few Hercs flying through the circuit over the last couple of days, but no radio calls on the safety com freq, are our growbag clad pals excused the common courtesy, or was it perhaps, a secret mission?:cool:

Answers on a postcard please to:

F**k me, that was big.
Glenforsa
Mull

GF

[Lurking123]

F**k me, that was big.
Glenforsa
Mull

Is he related to the twins 'F**k me, that was fast' & 'F**k me, that was low' and their step-sister, 'F**k me, that was noisy'?

Just a small point though GF. On the occasions I have flown into the wonderful strip where you reside, I've never been able to get anything on safetycom when approaching from the East until just past the headland (ie about 2nm to run). Note to self - Must fly higher. :ok:

[S205-18F]

Not sure if it has been posted excuse me if it has but Glen Forsa has its own frequency now! 120.8 if it isnt manned then safety com!!

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

Glen Forsa has its own frequency now!


Can you tell us where you got that info from?

Cheers

WW

[dont overfil]

According to DH they have been allocated 120.8 but when I spoke to Scottish info on tues they had not been notified.

[Glenforsa Flyer]

I've never been able to get anything on safetycom when approaching from the East

I think the idea is to make any other traffic in the area aware of your presence.

GF

[Lurking123]

That will explain why chap on the ground in his big log cabin never heard the radio call then? :cool:

[Glenforsa Flyer]

That will explain why chap on the ground in his big log cabin never heard the radio call then? :cool:


No, there could be a completly different explanation for that!:E


GF

[Lurking123]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[S205-18F]

Was there on Monday and spoke to David! They have a mast and aerial attached to the hut! also back on Wednesday in Helimed 5 and spoke to them on 120.8 so I presume they have the frequency and the license!

[Glenforsa Flyer]

so I presume they have the frequency and the license!


I spoke to the tower at Oban today, and they say that the frequency has not been activated yet, and when it is, it will only be used as A/G on 'special occasions' such as fly ins, and then only by operators from Oban.

GF

[neutron]

back on Wednesday in Helimed 5 and spoke to them on 120.8
So which authorised A/G licence holder at Glenforsa was speaking to you?

[Glenforsa Flyer]

So which authorised A/G licence holder at Glenforsa was speaking to you?


Good question.

GF

[TheGorrilla]

Chaps! The sheep inspection is worth far more than a radio call. You know, a picture paints a thousand words and all that!! :))

[S205-18F]

Well gents if this is going to turn into another witch hunt over the radio frequencies then I am very disappointed!! I wish that personal feelings wouldnt spill over onto this forum! The fact that there is A/G radio at Glenforsa is great, makes it safer and it makes me happier that someone knows I am approaching!

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

I wish that personal feelings wouldnt spill over onto this forum!


One wonders what your 'personal feelings' would be after coming nose to nose with a Hercules in the circuit that was talking to someone playing ATCO's on another freq while you were monitoring the published frequency!

WW

[dan design]

Two frequencies, one small airfield, no A/G operator ferry over from Oban - no scheduled HA flights to Mull]... how daft, and unsafe, is that?

How will visitors know when its a 'special occasion' will there be balloons and bunting on the windsocks?

[dont overfil]

Dan Design
Glenforsa is PPR. Surely you will be told which frequency to use when you call?
DO

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

Glenforsa is PPR. Surely you will be told which frequency to use when you call?


That's assuming you can raise the airport manager, not always the case.

So then you call Oban, but how do they know what frequency is being used?

WW

[dont overfil]

I wouldn't leave for glenforsa without permission.
Last week I was told a message would be left with oban if there were any changes to conditions at glenforsa if DH was not available.
I think that would be the limit of any help available from Oban. I agree it's probably going to be confusing for visitors to have a dedicated frequency which is not constantly manned. Safetycom seemed to be adequete most of the time.
I was told the voice of 120.8 was a Mull resident.
Our friends across the pond successfully operate busier airports than Edinburgh and with a greater mix of traffic on unicom.
DO

[S205-18F]

Point taken CWW!! well I hope it is sorted out soon which frequency to use!

[Glenforsa Flyer]

Safetycom seemed to be adequete most of the time.


Safety Com was introduced specificly for Airfields like Glenforsa where pilots are perfectly capable of arriving and departing safely, without being 'controlled'.


GF

[Lurking123]

Are we slipping into a personality driven discussion again? Personally I have dealt with DH when he has been fantastic and, at other times, I can only wish I had the opportunity to start on the nectar as early as him. Regardless, Glenforsa is not a difficult strip. Any of the info we require is not likely to change by the minute. Are there sheep, is it waterlogged, has the grass been cut, can I have PPR? That is about as much as we need to know. After that, safetycom, unmanned A/G or, God forbid, no R/T is fine. Let's not create a storm in this particular teacup.

[fisbangwollop]

An point of interest regarding safety comm can be read here

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1615/safetycom_review.pdf

[fisbangwollop]

Use of SAFETYCOM: Ground Stations
21. There is no ground station associated with SAFETYCOM and no ground stations have been licensed to operate on the frequency. Use of 135.475 MHz is restricted to transmissions from aircraft. However, the phraseology in a small number of transmissions recorded on the frequency, e.g. use of words such as ‘clear’, suggested either incorrect phraseology or the presence of a ground station on the frequency. Pilots must avoid using the word ‘clear’ on SAFETYCOM, as other pilots may understand this, incorrectly, as a clearance.

[S205-18F]

Glenforsa is not a difficult strip. Sorry Lurking but I cant agree with you as there is a wind direction (from over the hill possibly N.W.) which makes the strip almost unusable!!! I have seen the 2 wind socks pointing towards each other so some form of updated ground information is a real life saver!

[Lurking123]

I have seen the 2 wind socks pointing towards each other so some form of updated ground information is a real life saver!

What, like two windsocks? :) Maybe someone should put a third at the midpoint (Didn't the hotel used to have a small one just next to where Brendan parked his Cub?) I'm not trying to being flippant, I too have had an interesting time with wacky winds at Glenforsa. But, unless the chap on the ground is Brendan and you get the sound of silence as he sucks his teeth confirming that the windsock aren't lying..............

[Glenforsa Flyer]

there is a wind direction (from over the hill possibly N.W.) which makes the strip almost unusable!!!

When the wind is from the South there is a rotor effect caused by the trees and buildings as you would expect.

Depending on the wind strength, the effect can range from 'Hmm interesting' to 'character building' but as a based pilot operating a Cub from Glenforsa, I have rarely found it 'unusable'.

I would strongly advise that visiting pilots obtain local information from someone who has actually flown an aircraft, thereby avoiding lurid tales of 'The Wind of Death' and 'Flocks of Killer Geese' etc that may cause pilots to disregard relevant information that may be of some use to them.

Paul Keegan at Oban is one source I would recommend.


I have seen the 2 wind socks pointing towards each other so some form of updated ground information is a real life saver!


I couldn't agree more, as long as you can be confident of the quality of said information.

GF

[S205-18F]

After all is said and done Glenforsa is one of my favourite strips! It cant be beaten for views and tranquility and the hospitality! Well worth a visit comes HIGHLY recommended!

[Lurking123]

I wholeheartedly agree, Glenforsa is at the very top of my favourite airstrip list. With proper planning and sound preparation, the whole area should be a "must do" for any PPL. :ok:

[Rod1]

I have just flown the Wife to Mull for our anniversary weekend. Two people, overnight bags and lots of fuel. 625 nm, at an average ground speed of 125.2kn (from start of t/o run to end of landing run). Total fuel used 75.5l (15.1 lph) (26l was avgas, rest mogas). The longest leg was from Oban to the strip in Staffordshire, 2:15 B on to B off.

We both really enjoyed it and it did not cost a fortune. I highly recommend the Glenforsa Hotel and both airfields (Mull and Oban). Thanks to all.

Rod1

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

While in agreement that pointless and/or false and slanderous postings should be removed from these threads, those containing information that could effect the safety of airfield users should be considered more carefully before deletion.

IMHO

WW

[BRL]

Works both ways. If the information in some posts is safety critical then surely the poster should post only that information nothing else.

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

If the information in some posts is safety critical


Clearly, the deleted post contained some 'safety critical' information.

i.e. a 'critical component' of the airfield is prone to malfunction and likely to produce erroneous and contradictory information that could prove hazardous to airfield users.

So how do you decide what parts of the post should be considered pertinant and what parts just plain nasty?

WW

[Lurking123]

CWW, why don't you take you discussion off line with a mod rather than try to create additional mischief here?

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

additional mischief ?


It was a genuine enquiry as to how the moderators decide what should or should not be considered suitable for inclusion.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one interested in the subject, but I am prepared to be corrected.

WW

[flybymike]

I have to agree that CWW is making a very important point. I can appreciate the sensitivity of the issue, but found the allegation, if true, to be extremely alarming and worrying. I have personally come to grief before now as a result of erroneous and contradictory information of exactly this type from just such a "critical component" on an airfield.

[Lurking123]

I'm trying to sit on the fence here, but if someone made such allegations about you on an open forum, how would you feel? If there is a problem, has anyone formally approached ABC to voice their concerns? If not, the discussion doesn't deserve space on this forum.

[BRL]

This is a hard one to answer. Those who actually seen the post will know what I mean.

For those who did not see it, then a serious allegation was made about an individual on these forums.

At this moment in time I can't go into too much detail, (for legal reasons) but I believe I have done the right thing here in this circumstance.

CWW, The law decides how I edit/delete posts. As someone else has mentioned, please feel free to PM me (as my email is down) and we can discuss this further if you like.

Now, can we get this thread back on track about all things Glenforsa please.....?

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

If there is a problem, has anyone formally approached ABC to voice their concerns?


Yes they have, but then again, many persons voiced their concerns to ABC regarding Peter Jackson.

One pilot, alarmed by the confusion caused by the recent radio fiasco at Glenforsa, was told by the 'Airfield Manager' that he would be banned from Glenforsa if he made a complaint.

Unless you have actually experienced the sheer arrogance of this shower, you will probably find it difficult to comprehend.

WW

[connel flyer]

I totally agree cww. Confused and a little apprehensive on the take off roll am i going to meet a c130 on the climb out not god at all but DH seemed to think this was fine. Asked DH what time the Herc's were due answer was not sure they phoned on mobile couldn't hear them properly possible 6ish asked the frequency they would be on he said 120.80 and everybody else on safety. I thought great its 1755 now and am heading home. :eek::eek: this could be interesting god was with me that day never seen them but i tell u my eyes were scanning like a man possessed my passenger got the just of all this and i could tell he was very apprehensive and he had every rite to be. A bloody shambles. is this normal practice? I don't think.:hmm::hmm:

Well that shall due for an opening post

happy landings

[mad_jock]

I did see the posts.

And to be honest as with many complaints in aviation alot of people like moaning but nobody will bite the bullet and report them to the correct people.

You have 2 options MOR about your concerns but unfortunately there are no recordings and proving anything will be difficult. And your name will be known

Or phone crime stoppers and report that someone is operating in an aviation enviroment with your concern.

Anything else is slander

[connel flyer]

Mad jock yes your rite we do like to complain and never really follow it up but i can assure you this has been followed up and made known to the correct people. And i am not trying to slander anybody before we go down that road. I have a valid point as being that pilot on the receiving end of this Crap its not nice.

[Lurking123]

Have you MOR'd the incident?
Have you written to ABC stating your concerns, copy to the CAA?

[connel flyer]

As i said it was followed up in the proper manner we shall see if anything transpires:ok:
cf

[mad_jock]

Thanks Connel I wasn't accusing you of slander just making the point.

But as you possibly know the CAA really lacks teeth north of the border due to the legal system. So if you think there are issues your best contacting the police. If the local bobby is anything like the rest on the West coasts Hamish MacBeths words will be said in a fairly forth right manner with no discussion and the problem will not happen again.

[dont overfil]

CF
DH is not a controller, he is an airfield manager. At least he gave you a heads up on the situation with the C130s.
Glenforsa is in the open FIR like most of Scotland. VFR rules are see and avoid.
DO

[NorthSouth]

DO

I agree. Do you get info on the times and routes of low flying jets when departing Mull, Oban, or indeed Tiree, Wick, Benbecula and a host of other airfields with no radar? No you don't. Are they a bigger threat than Hercs? You bet. Max 2 pairs of eyes looking for you, maybe only one, cf at least 3 in a Herc. Hercs are massive - you'll see them as well as them seeing you. And they fly at half the speed of the jets.

Keep your eyes peeled and your fingers crossed :)

NS

[Glenforsa Flyer]

Do you get info on the times and routes of low flying jets when departing Mull,


No, you don't.

You also don't get told when the 'airport manager' has invited some hercs to fly through the circuit while not announcing their intentions on the airport frequency!

WW

[fisbangwollop]

As there seems some confusion regarding the Mull freq. 120.800 I got my ops department to check the info from the CAA......It appears that 120.800 was asigned to Mull some months back but it will now be up to the local authority to promulgate the information as how and when they intend to use it........hope that may clear up a little confusion!!! :ok:

[Johnm]

I haven't been to Glenforsa since the Oban development saga started, but the world doesn't change that much the problem is people and their attitudes.

As has been said several times both fields are PPR for briefing and that will be by airfield management to tell you what the local rules are and make sure that the fields are basically serviceable if they allow you in. That's how it was when I last went.

The only radio is A/G and safetycom, therefore if you have PPR all other decisions on landing take off and aircraft safety are down to the pilot. It's up to said pilot to decide what advice (if any) he will consider.

For what it's worth last time I was there I called at Oban for fuel and was royally served by paul and Co. At Glenforsa I landed between two windsocks pointing at other and the airfield manager "loaned" me a car which I used for touring and the hospitality at the Hotel could not have been bettered anywhere IMHO. When it was time to go home I took off into 700 ft cloud base climbed along the sound using GPS until I was at MSA and then turned on course home and called Scottish Info (jolly nice chaps) none of this was in any way dodgy as far as I was concerned and I'd happily go again tomorrow if my aeroplane was serviceable:bored:

[TALLOWAY]

When it was time to go home I took off into 700 ft cloud base climbed along the sound using GPS until I was at MSA

Were you able to get a decent RAIM check before departure ??

[NigelOnDraft]

When it was time to go home I took off into 700 ft cloud base climbed along the sound using GPS until I was at MSA and then turned on course home That frightens me to death :sad:

[Say again s l o w l y]

When it was time to go home I took off into 700 ft cloud base climbed along the sound using GPS until I was at MSA and then turned on course home

You aren't the only one horrified by this NOD.

Seriously, you think this isn't dodgy? Could you let me know what you think is, as I obviously need to adjust my "this terrifies the cr*p out of me" meter installed in my brain.

[flybymike]

OK then, I will take the bait and await the flak.. We all accept that a climb or descent on conventional radio navaids/ILS etc is the apparently "safe" norm. So for the pilot with IFR approved installed GPS unit on board and perhaps a couple of back up portables, are these any more unreliable than the conventional aids? or perhaps even more reliable, more intuitive, and more easily programmable for this type of ad hoc operation? or do we just accept that regardless of qualifications , experience, equipment or expediency we do not fly in a 700 foot overcast?

Edited to say that pursuing this subject will result in serious thread drift which is not appropriate for such an important thread topic!

[BRL]

...........so, why don't you start a new one!!!! :)

[Rod1]

You have no radar protection, you are not at a recognised flight level for your heading, and you are IMC within 1000ft of the ground. Nothing to stop blogs coming the other way in the decent doing the same thing. If you were single engine you would have had about 20 seconds before you hit something if the engine had stopped. Depends on your personal risk threshold, but it would not have worked for me.

Rod1

[dont overfil]

Doing an approved instrument approach or departure from Islay, how high before you can get a radar service? Genuine question.

[Say again s l o w l y]

A long way up, but you have the benefit of an approved SID using tried and tested machinery and procedures. A totally different proposition from making something up on the fly in an SEP machine.

[Glenforsa Flyer]

This is Glenforsa this morning on the occasion of the 42nd annual fly in.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/DSC_0017.jpg?t=1211623245And This is the view from the Glenforsa Hotel webcam taken at the same time.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/DSC_0019-1.jpg?t=1211623491

You have to ask the question, why would Argyll & Bute Council want to foster the impression that the airfield is unused?

GF

[Johnm]

Both pictures evoke considerable nostalgia:ok:

The webcam one would hook me if I wasn't hooked already :-)

[Lurking123]

But no, that little bit of farm track is a definite hazard to flight safety, I'm told.:confused:

[dont overfil]

Lurking
It's not. The track is not where AC are likely to be.
You surprise me. With the number of posts about the area I thought you would be intimate with it.
As you can see I'm not there, working again, pissed off!
DO

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

But no, that little bit of farm track is a definite hazard to flight safety, I'm told.:confused:


And being seen to support Paul Keegan can be a definite hazard to your business!

WW:E

[Lurking123]

dont overfil, sorry I couldn't find an "irony" smilie for my last post.

Maybe it is the problem of the one (or is it two now?) helicopter landing spot? However, current webcam picci (1420Z) has lots of aircraft visible.

I'm not their either.:(

[Glenforsa Flyer]

I'm not their either.:(


Yes, but these chaps were.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/DSC_0027.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/DSC_0034.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/DSC_0032.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/DSC_0030.jpg

GF

[Ken Wells]

Great photos can't wait to fly back for our annual visit.

I have just read some of critical posts re Glenforsa, what a load of plonkers.

GF is One of the best airfields in the UK. Those that don't like it or find their ego's writing cheques that their ability can't cash. Should just stop flying.
I am sure the skies will be alot safer without these moaning jessies!!
:eek:

[Rod1]

One of the best airfields in the UK.:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Hope to be up again in the next few months.

Rod1

[connel flyer]

Well said guys what a great weekend weather plenty flying. Great food at the Glenforsa Hotel well done for the whole team there keep up the good work.:ok::ok:

[fisbangwollop]

For those of you that used "Scottish info" 119.875 on the way there I hope you were happy with the service....my head was buzzing by the time my shift ended on saturday....great to see so many aircraft using the service.....hope you all had a great weekend.

[Texas Spangler]

"One of the best airfields in the UK.:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:" To quote ROD1 and the Glenforsa Hotel manager/proprietor seems to agree on his website in which he says its a "superbly maintained grass strip over 730 metres in length".

Few would disagree - so lets hear it for Argyll and Bute Council and their airfield manager just for a change!

[Rod1]

I get on fine with the airfield manager, Mull is a great place to visit and the hotel is excellent, but ABC strike me as a complete bunch of idiots who have wasted huge sums of tax payers money. By the way, which is the “Glenforsa Hotel manager/proprietor”?

Rod1

[Jetscream 32]

pppheeew...! thank goodness that little 5 pages of waffle is over about a frequency - i seriously cannot believe all i have just read - this is an un-licensed harefield for crying out loud - sea and avoid - low approach and go around if no response, check for surface, obstacles, livestock wind, turbulence, orientation etc then hook it round and get in there.......

so many people get all agitated and want full ATC service.... you seem to forget the buck stops with you P1 - normally sat in the front.....

Hey Brendan..... last time i came to see you - we had an SR20 coming in on finals at about 400ft when the 2 tornadoes dropped down over the hill right in front of him..... then god forbid - we jumped in your supercub and went round the coast then inland to the resevroir - and you even kindly let me fly a circuit in your cub from the back........... back soon bud..!

with a bit of luck you will have ful radar coverage and an ILS by then to make me warm cuddly and safe..... :oh:

[pheeel]

ha! first thought I had looking at that first photo of Glenforsa flyer's was
"that grass could do with a cut"! Being a summer season tug pilot is ruining me!:}

[Say again s l o w l y]

I've got to agree with Jetscream 32 about this.

So there's a frequency that isn't always manned. So there's military traffic around not talking and so what that the approach can get a wee bit interesting.

All sounds like a normal day in the Scottish FIR to me.

When around hills, keep your eyes peeled for fast pointy things or even slightly slower blunter things. If no-one is talking, go over the top of field and use your eyes and judgement about what's going on.

To be totally honest I find most A/G operators to be more of a hindrance than a help, usually as they try to control what's going on instead of just giving out information. There are obviously exceptions, but as a general rule, when I haven't got a response from an A/G station, then I treat it as a good thing!

Also agree with Pheel, the grass looks far too long. In some piccies it almost seems to be reaching prop tip level. Would the airfield "manager" care to be handed a bill for prop wear? It's amazing how quickly that can happen, especially if you have a wooden prop.

Texas, you are a bitter individual. ABC haven't exactly covered themselves with glory when it comes to aviation projects. I also seem to remember some very odd decisions at Glenforsa, such as being closed for an unuseable soggy runway. Fair enough if true, but it was like a bowling green, or the "strategic placing" of fencing purely to inconvienience one person.

Petty minded rubbish that has no business in aviation. If the airfield "manager" (of a grass strip!:rolleyes:) and ABC think that sort of thing is alright, then I suggest they leave the business of flying aeroplanes to the adults.

Enough grumbling, Glenforsa is a great place to visit thanks to it's stunning location. The fact you can get a friendly welcome and decent meal make it a must visit. It's one of the far too few places where you actually have a decent reason for visiting, rather than just another name in a logbook and another rubbish bacon sarnie in a portacabin.

Go and visit, you won't regret it.

[Comment]

Recently returned from the fly-in weekend. Superb weather, beautiful grass, lots of planes, and nice to have a proper radio radio frequency at last and a licensed controller using it very efficiently. Well done Glenforsa! Oban very helpful also!

[PH-UKU]

Far better to have a controller in the cockpit methinks. :} keeps the skies much safer ... and it's more fun for the ATCO !

I think Air/Ground Service precludes giving ATC instructions such as 'report baseleg', "route to final "and suchlike. Easy mistakes to make, but 'over-controlling' shouldn't really happen. I thought it was very useful to have someone on freq on the ground directing parking slots. :ok:

For those who think that full over-control is required in every acre of sky I would suggest you visit Strathallan Fly-in and watch 80 aircraft depart in the space of an hour, with no A/G operator, no AFISO or no controller. And it works.

For those departing Strathallan, I would suggest you all get transponders and switch them on ... then the compliants about radar clutter from the controllers at Scottish might highlight one of the dafter consuquences of the CAAs drive to impose Mode S :E

Mull was a truly superb weekend and the airfield was in tip-top condition. Thanks to all (and that includes DH, BW, PK and the RT operator from Popham). Take a bow y'all :D :D

Thnak you and cya soon

[Comment]

I used the term "licensed controller" because one does have to have a licence to use even an A/G and it has to be signed by the controlling authority that owns the actual radio station. Do not confuse this with a "licensed/unlicensed airfield". I was talking to the "Popham man" using the Glenforsa Radio and he certainlly had the required licence to operate that radio. The other two people using the A/G were also "licensed" to use it. Without a signed "A/G (or higher) licence" no-one would be able use Glenforsa Radio. As I understand it the frequency 120.800 was only finalised one week before the fly-in but Scottish 119.87 knew about it and gave it to me before I got to Oban.

On the subject of Gleforsa Radio sometimes being unmanned, this happens a lot at small airfields where they cannot justify having someone on the radio 27/7 and 9 hours a day. If you don't have an ATZ then you can't stop military (or any other) planes coming close - it's all down to see and be seen. I read in Pooleys before I set out that Glenforsa was "Strictly PPR" and therefore the "special event (the fly-in)" was given to me before I left. The discussion about who or what "controls" who is not a subject for the Glenforsa Forum. I personally liked the ADVICE given to me on the radio.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Licenced is one thing, but using the word "controller" when talking about an A/G station is very misleading.

"Advice" hmm, a very grey area, but the A/G operator should confine themselves to simply giving out information and all the decisions based on it are yours.

[crt86t]

I monitor the Oban and Glenforsa Forums all the time and I have never seen fit to get involved with some of “discussion” that has been going on.

I have been flying to Glenforsa for over twenty years and have assisted as A/G at the fly-ins for some time. Now that Glenforsa has a formal radio (and a proper aerial) from an A/G point of view it was nice to be able to hear aircraft coming down the Sound of Mull rather than when they were just visual with field. I fully agree with a former post here (“COMMENT”) that the subject of “A/G control” is not for this forum.

The subject of “advice” is interesting and I believe relevant to Glenforsa.

Wherever I fly, especially if I have not been to the location, I always phone first and get any PPR, any local conditions, or “advice” over the telephone. If conditions alter in any way en-route I am very happy to receive further “advice” from ANY radio that may affect any decisions I might have previously made. The local people have the experience relevant to their airfield and they generally do know best.

Over the last fly-in weekend over 90 aircraft came and went during the time the radio was manned (08:45 – 17:30). There were also numerous movements outside those times. Only one aircraft came in using an incorrect frequency and we received numerous compliments regarding the service given. Several aircraft asked for “Flight Information Service” and this was refused as we are A/G. Several aircraft asked for “Clearance to Take off” and this was not given, again as we are A/G. If an aircraft asked if there was anything on finals, they were “advised” that there was “nothing seen to affect”. The “advisory” wind was given over the radio using our experience of what tends to be somewhat tricky short final conditions when the wind at Glenforsa has a southerly component. The “advisory” QFE give was based on a serviceable aircraft altimeter on the airfield. On several occasions, Scottish telephoned because they had “lost contact” with an aircraft inbound to Glenforsa and we were able to tell them the exact time the plane had landed or departed. This is also not part of an A/G service.

I have worked as Popham A/G for many years and do not see anything wrong with giving such “advisory” information on A/G, especially at Glenforsa, a place that many people have not visited before. This is a Professional Pilot Forum, I like to give out on the radio what I would like to hear myself but agree that the final decision to do anything as P1 at Glenforsa is entirely up to me!

[fisbangwollop]

Quote"
For those departing Strathallan, I would suggest you all get transponders and switch them on ... then the compliants about radar clutter from the controllers at Scottish might highlight one of the dafter consuquences of the CAAs drive to impose Mode S "unquote

I guess you will not be on duty then????:ok:

[PPRuNe Radar]

G-DRAM never flies high enough to be seen on radar :ok: ;)

[Oldpilot55]

There is a world of difference between the controllers who help us get about and the CAA. Why be offensive to the controllers..at the end of the day they are only following the edicts of their bosses. Like most GA pilots I see little advantage in Mode S, old old technology, rehashed. I can see a future for ADS-B but then I am not an "expert". Steps back and awaits for incoming.

[Lurking123]

I'll start. One of the 'link solutions' (methods of transmitting information) for ADS-B is Mode S. In other words, you need some form of 'transponder' for ADS-B to work; it makes sense to use technology that is already in place.

I hear that ABC may be considering buying one of these (http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/sbs-1.php) for the airfield manager. :ok:

[Three Yellows]

I hear that ABC may be considering buying one of these (http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/sbs-1.php) for the airfield manager. :ok:

Well they would be wasting their time. Biggest waste of money ever. They could have my old one as it just sits in the drawer.

It will not plot any GA aircraft. Most GA a/c don't transmit their position, so the SBS can see the code so knows you are around, but hasn't got the feintest idea where you are.

I'm surprised that more isn't made of the over promises and under delivery by Messrs Kinetic.... oh and you need a PhD in computer science to get the bl@@dy thing working in the first place. And as for all the crap about sharing data across the web with other users - that doesn't work either.

Has anyone got the number for trading standards?

Sorry, rant over.

['India-Mike]

Go look at the Glenforsa Hotel webcam NOW - is that Landrover towing a fuel bowser? Is fuel now avail?

[modelman]

Go look at the Glenforsa Hotel webcam NOW - is that Landrover towing a fuel bowser? Is fuel now avail?


The only bowser I saw 2 weeks ago was Jet A1 (presumably for helo's?)

MM

[Glenforsa Flyer]

Glenforsa Hotel webcam is now up and running once more.

GF

[The Original GF]

Hi there,

A couple of weeks ago I (Glenforsa Flyer) was banned from Pprune for, and I quote ''taking the p*ss'.

It turns out that my Nom de Plume had been hijacked by a near neighbour who was using it to spread confusion amongst the mods.

I have therefore (to avoid confusion) changed to The Original GF (clever what).

TOGF

[BRL]

It turns out there were three different people using the 'Glenforsa Flyer' log-in. This lead to some confusing converations in the old Oban thread. This was happening because of either the hotel internet being open to all and being abused or the username remaining logged in and someone using without the others knowing.

The solution now for you 'The Original GF' is to make sure you log-out after every session and also clear your cookies regular too.

If this new log-in is a success then I shall delete the old 'Glenforsa Flyer' username. :)

and I quote ''taking the p*ss'.
Wasn't me Guv'......... :oh:

[Lurking123]

GF, where's the Cub? I used to like staring at the webcam with the Cub looking out over the loch.

[The Original GF]

where's the Cub?



The cub had to go I'm afraid, whenever it was perceived I was supporting Paul Keegan, or criticising the airport manager, I would receive a £2,700 bill for 'special' parking charges.

It got a little tedious as you can imagine.

You could'nt make it up!

TOGF

[Texas Spangler]

You could'nt make it up!


you just have!

[The Original GF]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn129/TheOriginalGF/ABC1-1.jpg?t=1214167666

[Say again s l o w l y]

I do hope you never had to pay that bill Brendan!:eek:

Texas as per usual, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Obviously not. How about using the rewind button on your neck.

[theyounglaird]

I hope that bill was paid. It was a very reasonable invoice under the circumstances.

[The Original GF]

It was a very reasonable invoice under the circumstances


And what circumstances would that be?

TOGF

[theyounglaird]

As far as I am aware, the story went like this :

1) Your plane sits in field next to Glenforsa airstrip (owned by the council)
2) Peter Jackson takes over as man in charge of council airstrips
3) Peter Jackson introduces some rigidity to fairly lax procedures at Glenforsa
4) You don't like the changes and contribute to the anti Peter Jackson messages on this forum
5) Peter Jackson reads the forum and decides that people that post those kind of messages on public forums should not be given any privileges
6) Peter Jackson says that your plane should be moved off council property or should pay parking fees
7) Your plane remains on the council property for over the reasonable parking time, so an invoice is issued accordingly

Is this correct?

[Texas Spangler]

Well said Young Laird.... and entirely accurate!

Say again Slowly you're sounding a tad gullible......again!

[Rod1]

Jackson has gone, dragging this up is of little relevance to the current situation and is just likely to get posts deleted or the thread chopped. With Jackson gone are things improving, or has it had very little impact?

Rod1

[The Original GF]

Is this correct?


Er, no its not.

1). Article in flying magazine extolls the joys of flying on the West Coast and reccomends nursing a drink in the lounge of the hotel whilst admiring your pride and joy sitting outside.

2). 1 week later, edict from Mr Jackson banning parking outside hotel for unspecified 'safety reasons'.

3). Fence erected around parking area and airport managers car used to prevent Cub leaving (not that it was going anywere). It is explained to Mr Jackson that land in question is leased to local farmer who has given permission for Cub to park there.

4). I dont like my guests (90%+ of airfield users) being harrased and inconvenienced and say so.

5). Mr Jacksons ignores the fact that he has no legal right to levy charges on land leased to farmer, and continues to issue threats via council legal department.

6). See (3).

7). Council offers deal where Cub can remain parked on site but guests aircraft cannot. Offer declined.

TOGF

[mikehammer]

As a complete outsider and knowing nothing of the circumstances of this club I would still like to suggest that twelve hundred squiddleys for a month's parking (however irregular) is excessive. At my local airfield you can park for a month under the cover of your own brand new hangar for £180. I would say the local council have made fools of themselves by raising this invoice - it's a joke.

I appreciate the aim is for the charges to be punitive in this instance, but it looks to the casual observer like all sense of reason and balance has been lost in favour of emotion and loss of personal control.

[BRL]

Don't be alarmed guys, please use the Oban thread. Makes it easier this end having it all on one thread.