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Seaking
1st Jul 2001, 19:38
Any pruners at present completing this course or have completed it?

I am considering starting later this summer and would welcome any advice,comments,etc.

Many thanks.

e.mail : [email protected]

Final 3 Greens
2nd Jul 2001, 00:07
Seaking

I have not done this course, but did another MSc a few years ago.

My general experience was:

1 - Be prepared to allocate at least 12 hours per week for reading, on top of assignments and other formal stuff

2 - If you haven't done a first degree (I was a management direct entry with A Levels) then make sure you have a very supportive personal tutor to get you up to speed in academic skills.

3 - Be prepared to question what the textbooks and the lecturers say - this is a Masters degree and the uni will expect you to show mastery of the subject

If you can't find anyone through PPrune who has done the course, ask City to introduce you to two or three past students to talk to, they should have no problem doing that.

Apart from that, enjoy yourself - its a great challenge and very rewarding.
Hope these general comments will help.

F3G

Radar
2nd Jul 2001, 02:59
Seaking,
I completed the MSc at City earlier this year. Great fun, great experience. I'm glad it's all behind me now but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Drop me an e-mail at vect[email protected] with any specific questions. Talk to you later

brabazon
2nd Jul 2001, 13:48
Why not consider the full-time or part-time MSc in Air Transport at Cranfield?

http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/coa/tech-atm/atm-msc.htm

http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/coa/tech-atm/atm-msce.htm

You will be based at an active airfield with the opportunity to do your own flying.

Dutchie
2nd Jul 2001, 14:46
Yep, Cranfield get my full support. It is with university degrees the same as with Flight Schools: it is all about their reputation. i.e. if I apply to BA after having done OATS (or any of the other well known establisments..) or after Billies Flying Club (hope none such place excists but if it doies: no offence ;) ) then OATS would win hands down.

I do not understand that City aims this course specifically at pilots but I am afraid that it does not improve it's academic credetials (well in my world it doesn't that is)

Cranfield is well known for it's Academic work, consultancy, etc. so that seems to be the better choice..

Let me know what you decide!

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I'd rather be flying... :)

Flyin' High
2nd Jul 2001, 15:10
I am just about to finish the course at Cranfield (working on my Thesis at the moment) and have enjoyed every minute ...

As an aside we had a look at the cost for the MSc at City and it was in the region of 7500 for EU students ... the Cranfield course is nothing like that (unless it has changed for this year)

Also as far as I am aware the closing date for entries for October this year has passed but it is still worth contacting them.

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Speak your mind - It proves you have one! :)

snooky
2nd Jul 2001, 16:37
Just one thing is puzzling me.

With all these amazing courses on Air Transport Management being taken, how come in the real world so many large airlines are a complete management shambles?

exeng
2nd Jul 2001, 17:05
Nice one Snooky!


Regards
Exeng

Final 3 Greens
2nd Jul 2001, 19:20
Snooky

You are are looking at causation and effect; you have identified the cause; the effect is to spawn all these courses!

RRtay
2nd Jul 2001, 19:44
I checked into Cranfield (13,000) and City (8500) and decided on ERAU distance learning centre, all the above are fairly new at MsC in Air transport while Embry has been doing this since 1928

STONKERS
2nd Jul 2001, 23:05
I am mid-way through the MSc at City and would thoroughly recommend it. Teaching is of a very high quality and by recognised industry experts. I cannot comment on the quality of the Cranfield course any more than its students can comment on City. I would though dispute the feeling that City is only for Pilots, I have found the attendees to come from many areas of the industry, something which adds to the appeal and value. Bottom line which is why we are all doing it of course, is that I have made numerous quality contacts who are impressed with the course and are willing to employ on the strength of it.

topunicyclist
3rd Jul 2001, 00:51
I was at Cranfield a couple of years ago doing the MSc in Air Transport and would definitely recommend it, if they are prepared to work hard!

alosaurus
3rd Jul 2001, 01:31
Caution-read what Finals 3 Greens said very carefully.An MSc is a huge consumer of time and effort,it can destroy your social/family life (I did mine on a part time basis over five years).
The nature of an MSc can vary widely.I once saw a thesis on "The Mating Habits Of Wide Bodied Midges".This is the kind of stuff which gets academics a bad name.
Someone once told me that for an MSc you learn more and more about less and less until you know absolutely everything about f*#k all.
Choose your course carefully!

snooky
3rd Jul 2001, 02:07
And then you're a fully qualified airline manager.

Hector_Pascal
3rd Jul 2001, 04:01
Did the Cranfield Msc about 8 years ago and really enjoyed it. They have good cheap accommodation (especially for marrieds)and the money we saved on mortgage/rent and rates etc. over the year basically made the course free!! Don't know the story today, but things I remember include the fact that real airline management never seemed interested in the courses, the students all came from wide backgrounds, but not airline management. However, there was a short course over a couple days, when managements were invited to participate in the airline management simulator created by the staff. They basically set the fares and capacity over an accelerated period of time and reacted to each others inputs. Funny, but they always drove each other bust by setting too low fares in the pursuit of shafting the other teams, could never resist it apparently, even though they could have co-existed profitably together in the simulation.
Anyway, in the years since then I have watched office politics and egos do more decision making than analysis and reason at airlines. But maybe that's the nature of the beast, as even the academic theory didn't fare too well when our Professor met the real world with a bang when he tried to sort out Olympic.

Overall, I would recommend people to do the MSc only if they find the subject interesting and the want the satisfaction of achieving a hard worked goal. I wouldn't advise you to do it solely for advancement and career success. That would be like doing a maths course so you can win the lottery! Do it to enjoy and you won't go wrong!

Blacksheep
3rd Jul 2001, 04:42
Hector, your last paragraph is right on the button. You study at post graduate level to stretch your brain but academic work isn't the same as professional training. If you're lucky someone, somewhere might give you a job on the strength of it, but in general airline managers don't have academic qualifications and aren't very interested in anyone who has.

Education sharpens your mind and so makes you more effective at work. That's the real advantage. One day an educated work force may evict the hobbyists but for now its the hobbyists who run this industry. They will continue to do so for quite some time yet.

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Through difficulties to the cinema

Zeus
3rd Jul 2001, 13:41
Have to agree with all of the above. It depends on why you want to do the course. If you are thinking of going into airline management it may not be a help.

I tried something similar and applied to British Airways and the BAA for their graduate entry scheme. I did not even get invited for an interview. On ringing BA up for some feedback I was told that they did not want anyone with "pre-conceived ideas". They would much rather you had a degree in geology.

Having said all that if you want to get into airline management a degree in law or accountancy seems to be the thing these days.

toto
3rd Jul 2001, 16:31
I did the MSc in Air Transport Management few years ago at Cranfield (full time). Great course. However I am still not convinced this will help with a flying career... I am working as an F/O now (medium size UK airline) and unless you are very senior in a "major", I do not think it will make a diference. Take it as a (very) long term project.
Other views on this point from ex-Cranfield (ATM) students are very welcome!

Clive
3rd Jul 2001, 17:38
I'm not sure if this topic is a wind up for some inter-uni rivalry or not, but here is my 2 pence worth.

It seems to me that those prepared to berate one university course for the promotion of another have probably decided upon their particular course and insitution for all the wrong reasons. This toffee nosed attitude that "I am attending 'X' university therefore my degree must be much better" is a load of crock (excuse the french). Any degree, both under graduate or post graduate, is worth only what the individual is prepared to put into it! You will reap what you sow.... and the quality of the insitution will have little bearing upon your harvest.

I have compleated an under graduate degree (BAv) and will soon finish my post graduate degree (MSc) from City University. Completion of both of these degrees has seen my pending acceptance into a PhD programme at one of Australia's premier universities. They certainly did not question what insitution I used for my initial studies.

To the origional 'poster' of this thread, the important thing is that should you decide to partake in studies at any of the fine institutions offering degrees in Aviation studies then (as other posters have said) be prepared for a bit of "head down and tail up" but also be prepared for some of the most rewarding, and relevant, work you will ever undertake. Your "big picture" will become very much larger and your personal fulfilment (see Maslow's hierarchy of human needs) will be boundless.

My MSc was undertaken at City university and I have nothing but praise for this course. You will find the administration very understanding of the role we have as aircrew, and the pressures that brings, and you will find the quality of lecturers/facilitators excellent, and the variety of participants amazing, and very interesting. Research all options and make your choice on more than just a "name".

Good luck,

Clive.

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Life is what happens to you while you make plans - enjoy it!