Pan US trip any takers?

[Longfinals]

I'm flying an Arrow III from Utah (just up the road from L.Vegas) to New York where it will be delivered across to Europe and looking to see if there is anyone out there that wants to share the trip. The a/c is fresh out of an annual and has all the toys on board. Looking at going early June for 8-10 days maybe longer. The plan is to fly to Vegas and then drive up to collect the a/c before taking it across the US. Its a great trip and though i have flown a lot in the southern states (FL, GA,) i have never visited the mid and central ones. The idea is to fly 5-6 hours/day but with lots of stops to visit places

Anyone interested drop me a line

[niknak]

A trip from Ohio to New York is very differnt form New York to Europe, the main difference being that there's nowhere to land in the Atlantic Ocean.

I suggest that you take serious heed of the many messages that will be coming your way.:hmm:

[lauchiemb]

Nickernack, it would appear that the guy wants a mate to fly across the US rather than across the Atlantic. Surely the a/c will be shipped across the Atlantic.

[Longfinals]

ummm maybe i wasn't clear about it. I am only doing the Utah-NY bit whilst a professional delivery company will take the a/c across the Atlantic.

[S-Works]

PM me, I might be up for it. I have to be in Canada by the 12th June but free before that.

[172driver]

I'd love to come! Not sure if it'll work out, but I might be in the US anyway at that time, PM me with details.

[SkyHawk-N]

I'm doing a pan trip in August, although mine's east to west.

Are you doing it VFR? Where are you planning on crossing the Rockies?

[Longfinals]

I wanted to go VFR if possible but not a big deal as i hold an IR anyway. Its a Turbo Arrow with oxygen so we can climb if the need is there but prefer not to. To be honest i haven't really looked into the route yet other than a quick clance at Google Map, will sort everything out on the ground.

Are you leaving your a/c in the west once you get there or going back?

[Keygrip]

How are you planning to break down the costs and flight time for this trip?

Who gets what, and pays what?

[SkyHawk-N]

I wanted to go VFR if possible but not a big deal as i hold an IR anyway. Its a Turbo Arrow with oxygen so we can climb if the need is there but prefer not to. To be honest i haven't really looked into the route yet other than a quick clance at Google Map, will sort everything out on the ground.

Are you leaving your a/c in the west once you get there or going back?

I'm moving out there so it will be a one way journey, VFR. It's better going west to east as the prevailing winds are from the west/north-west, they get pretty strong in east Utah/west Wyoming. I'm going to cross the Rockies just south of Logan, 12,500ft to 13,000ft if I can and on oxygen.

[Longfinals]

keygrip:

I was thinking on the lines of 50:50 both for flying and costs, naturally you would have to be checkedout on a complex single. I have a set date now of 8 June to go to the US.

[S-Works]

I assume from no PM that you are not interested? I have a small collection of IR's and no need for a checkout on a 'complex' single......
:)

[BHenderson]

Sounds fun, drop me a message. I'm in California at the moment. I'll hopefully be doing the whole coast to coast and return myself in the forecoming weeks if I can find a properly equpped aircraft. I have an IR.

Bobby

[Keygrip]

50/50 sounds fair.

Who will actually "own" the aircraft at the time of the flight? Are you sure the owners won't mind us playing around with the aircraft for 8 to 10 days?

I presume "my" 50% would be left for me to plan and decide on the route, altitude etc, fuel load, etc - otherwise I cannot really be P1, can I?

As it appears to be a delivery flight then I also presume it's just the cost of "fuel only" - so we should hunt out the cheapest fuel and make those the stops? 10 gallons an hour is it? So with avgas costing, say, $5 a gallon - that's only $50 an hour. Excellent.

Overnight accommodation will be be 4 or 5 nights of your choosing and 4 or 5 of mine?

Who would be doing my checkout on the complex?

I presume the aircraft will be at "St George", Utah - as that appears to be the nearest Utah based airfield to Las Vegas - and 118 miles by road.

Great circle distance to La Guardia (random pick in New York) is 1,850 miles(ish), crossing terrain in Colorado reaching 12,500 feet (and mountains for the first 700 miles). Sounds exciting! 185 to 231 miles a day in flight. Two hours a day - rest of the time visiting places en-route? Will stop me getting too bored, sitting as a passenger whilst you do your five two hour flights.

About 10 hours each then? $500 for the aircraft but 10 nights hotel at what - I've seen hotels at $40 a night and at $140 a night - so an average of $90? $900 plus the $500 for the flight. That brings the hourly rate to only $140.

Lot of down time though, if only doing two hours flying. Guess that will be expensive - but another $500 should cover the ten days do you think? So about $2000 for the trip all in - excluding one way flight to Utah and one way back from New York.

That makes the hourly rate for the Arrow about $250? Agreed? Plus whatever it costs for the checkout of course.

What experience do *you* have with the USA, the complex aircraft, mountain flying and instrument flight conditions? You'll be able to look after us OK?

What are "all the toys", by the way?

[Longfinals]

keygrip:

You are nearly right with most things.. i am going to tryt o keep the trip as cheap as possible so when it comes to hotels/motels staying at the $40 places instead of the $140. Now we are not going to fall out before the trip about you choose 4-5 and i choose 4-5. The idea is to fly "together", i have done enough long trips to know that after a few hours on your own it gets boring so thats why i'm asking on this forum if anyone wants to tag along, anyone coming will want to fly and fly P1 which is fine by me but as i am responsible for the a/c at the end of the day i will "have control", that doesn't mean that i am over cautious and over controlling and i have flown with lots of different people as P2.

No idea about your checkout just make sure it's in your log book. 10 hours each is correct (roughly), which maybe can be done in 3 days (?). In the past when i did a flight from Key west- Memphis we started early in the morning and flew for 1.5 hours did a short stop, flew another hour or so stopped for lunch and then again in the afternoon. Finishing around 5-6 and looking for somewhere to stay. If we felt like it we flew a bit longer, one day we stopped after 2 hours to visit "jack Daniels" distillery in Tennesse.

I am looking for someone who wants to share the trip 50/50 so not interested in anyone who wants to come along for 3 hours of flying. I have 980 TT, with 250 multi and about 100 instrument as i spent a winter flying in the UK. Have about 150 hours + on Arrow's (I, II & III) and will have flown on the 6 & 7th June. Flown all over the US so familiar with procedures etc.

so to go back to prices 20 hours @ 10 gall/ hour $5/gall= $1000 for the trip so $500 each plus hotels for 4-5 nights @ $50/night = 175 each total is 675 plus flights and any extras call it $1000 which works out at $100/hour, not bad i reckon.

What experience have you got?

[Keygrip]

Enough to know that there's no such thing as P2 on an Arrow - and that the Captain is responsible for the aircraft.

You said 8 to 10 days, not me.

[drauk]

LF,

I've done near north east to west to south west and back again in 7 days, so I would say 3 days is plenty if the purpose of this trip is flying rather than visiting the places en-route. And let's face it, the route you'd naturally take is deathly dull once you're east of Colorado. If you've got extra time you could have a lot more fun with it.

I might have been interested but I think your numbers are all a bit screwy. In my experience the hotels closest to the airfields are not $40 a night and besides, I wouldn't choose to stay in them and would rather enjoy some luxury. But more important than that, in my mind, this is clearly a positioning flight for your own aircraft, so don't you think you've got a bit of a cheek asking for half the costs? Of course, you can ask for what the hell you like - it's your trip and your aeroplane - but personally it puts me off.

[Radar]

Coincidently this is on offer elsewhere .......

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=43955

[LH2]

Not that I have any stakes on this, I just happen to be a bit bored, but...

this is clearly a positioning flight for your own aircraft, so don't you think you've got a bit of a cheek asking for half the costs?

Isn't that (and the other comments on the last two or three posts) a bit unwarranted? After all, the guy said he gets bored flying alone and that's his main reason for advertising the flight. He didn't say or suggest it was his own aircraft, and rather than thinking it cheeky, you could equally say he is giving someone the opportunity to log some P1 on the cheap.

As for a previous comment about the captain being responsible (as in, whoever is flying P1), yes, but what I think LF is getting at is that he will look after the interests of the aircraft owner/operator, so he wants to reserve the right to veto any planning decisions. Just speculating, but that's the way I read it.

So to summarise, if not interested let it be (or negotiate), but is there any need for taking an accusative tone? Unless shown otherwise, this is an honest offer like the many others regularly advertised on the "spare seat" thread (and btw, so what if he posts this on more than one website? Anything wrong with trying to reach a wider audience?)

I know of a commercial operator who sent e-mails a couple times soliciting pilots for ferrying an aircraft across Europe... charging you for the trip (commercial fare back to base at your own cost also, of course). That's more like my idea of being cheeky (although I'm sure someone must have bitten).

LF, have you considered sounding off your circle of friends and acquaintances first, see if anyone is up for the trip?

...and no, I'm not interested. Just thought the bickering was a bit out of place.

[Keygrip]

Isn't that (and the other comments on the last two or three posts) a bit unwarranted?

Nope - not if you consider al the ramifications.

[stickandrudderman]

I'm with LH2.:D

[GAFlyer]

It's too short notice for me to join the trip, but otherwise I'd have been delighted to. FAA PPL and IR, plus long experience on Arrows and other complex types.

Process looks reasonable to me.

[Rugbyears]

LH2 – well reasoned, there is a great deal to be said regarding individual attitudes and comments during recent postings.

[S-Works]

I also see no issue with the post. They guy has been honest with purpose, he is ferrying an aircraft across the US for it to be onward ferried by some else for the atlantic crossing.

He wants company and a cost share. He has stated that the costs share is 50/50. He has stated that anyone who comes must be able to fly the aircraft so that clearly states that they will be logging P1 during their legs. He has stated that he will retain the overall decisions on routing weather etc as he is responsible for the aircraft, just like my group stating that we don't put the Malibu into grass.

He has been honest with his experience and as someone with many times his experience if I went along I would be happy with his terms for the flight.

All very upfront to my mind. If I can fit in the time between other trips I would be happy to go.

[drauk]

LH2 wrote:

Just thought the bickering was a bit out of place.

Not quite sure how you managed to read bickering in to what I wrote. I pointed out that in my opinion it seems a bit cheeky, that's all, to charge someone to fly on a journey that is clearly going to be made regardless of that person. If the reason for wanting a second pilot was truly that he get bored flying alone then he could offer a seat for free. If he was saying "I am going to the US to fly around, anybody want to come along" then it would be entirely reasonable to expect to split the costs, again, in my opinion.

As Bose-X says, he has been very up front about what he is offering and what's available, which is admirable and like I also said, he can put it in whatever terms he chooses; no problems there. I explained why I might have been interested or might still be under different terms (hence the post, otherwise I'd agree that it would be better to say nothing).

I've done my fair share of encouraging people to offer spare seats, split costs and and so on; it's a good concept.

[smith]

He wants company and a cost share. He has stated that the costs share is 50/50

He could sell the back seats as well?