VFR this weekend to Tempelhof. Advice needed

[echobeach]

I know there seems to be quite a bit on threads about this but looking for some timely advice as I plan.

Planning VFR flight to templehof this weekend in an arrow. Lifetime ambition about to be fulfilled, with much anticipation. Certainly hoping that many months of planning about to be possible with weather looking good.

However done quite a bit south into France and Spain but Belgium and Holland look a little challenging and I wonder if I could ask a bit of advice from someone who has recently been this way.

I am planning to cross from DVR VOR and then route direct to KOK VOR and then round the back of Oostende to the COA VOR. (no comments please about being clever with VORs. Just seems a good aid to VFR nav). Then intend routing to Romeo near Rotterdam and dropping down to 1200 feet QNH talking to Dutch Mil and crossing to PAM VOR under the TMA.

The query is really are Oostend helpful and will they usually let you through this way. The weather looks good for the weekend and I hope for good VFR. Not sure where to go if they decided to decline a VFR transit.

Constructive advice from those many who are more experienced than good self in these things would be much appreciated.

[BackPacker]

Ostende has never failed to let me through at FL45 (to the UK) or FL35 (coming back). I'm based at Rotterdam and been exactly that way to the UK twice.

From DVR ("Dover") to KOK ("Koksee") the FIR boundary crossing point is KONAN. You might want to use that in your flightplan and estimates. London info (or Manston) will transfer you to Ostende Approach, assuming you make the crossing at 1500' or higher. Ostende can tell you whether the EBFN CTR is active, and to which altitude (it might be active up to 2500' for instance). From there, a route along the coast or direct to COA ("Costa") should work at any altitude, just make sure EB(D)-7 is not active - Ostende will know.

After COA you may want to talk to Dutch Mil if you intend to stay below 1500". Above that altitude use Rotterdam Approach (127.025, and if they're not open Rotterdam Tower at 118.2) once you're inside the Rotterdam TMA (class E). See also my remark about Dutch Mil below.

Do NOT use Romeo as your turning point for enroute navigation. Romeo is a VRP for one of the arrivals into Rotterdam. Dutch Mil (or Rotterdam Approach/Tower) will get confused as to what you're attempting, and there's a lot of traffic converging there (all at 1500').

Personally, from COA I would remain at FL35, and route via the "Moerdijkbrug" instead, which is just south of Dordrecht at approx. 51 42N 4 38E. It is very easy to recognise: three big bridges next to each other. Visual navigation over this area of the Netherlands is extremely easy due to all the water.

From the Moerdijkbrug drop to 1300 feet and route directly to PAM ("Pampus") - you should be having good reception there already. The Amsterdam TMA (class A) starts at 1500 feet, traffic there is lined up for Schiphol at 2000 feet, so you will want to stay 700 feet below that, hence the 1300 feet or below. Near PAM, keep a sharp lookout as this is close to EHHV, which is a very busy GA field, and PAM is a very convenient turning point for all VFR traffic converging in this choke point between EHAM and EHSB. Flight Information Service here is provided by Amsterdam info on 124.3 but don't expect a Radar service - it's far too busy for that.

Underneath the Amsterdam TMA (in your case roughly from Dordrecht to Ermelo/Harderwijk/Lelystad) you're supposed to put your transponder on standby so as not to confuse the TCAS of the aircraft overhead headed for Schiphol.

After Harderwijk/Ermelo/Lelystad you need to switch to Dutch Mil on 132.35. Dutch Mil is exclusively an information service. Although they have radar they do not provide any form of radar service by default. And they can be very busy, particularly on glorious weekends. All flying clubs in Holland have received a memo from Dutch Mil that if you do not need specific information from them, just monitor the frequency but don't call them. The QNH and other significant information will be broadcast every now and then and if they need to talk to you they'll try and call you based on position (and presumably mode-S if you have it).

If you do call Dutch Mil, your initial call should include a rough position, for instance the name of the nearest town. Dutch Mil has only one frequency, but transmit via multiple towers and with your position report, the controller knows which tower to use.

Having said all that, if I were heading to Tempelhof, from the Moerdijkbrug I would head directly east, following the river Waal along Dordrecht, Gorinchem, Tiel and Nijmegen to Emmerich. True, there are no handy VORs on that route but you can stay high (FL65 on weekdays and FL95 during the weekend) in the Nieuw Millingen TMA and there's far less traffic to worry about. It's also very scenic.

From Bochold you could for instance route HMM OSN DLE but I've never ventured that far in that direction.

Hope this helps. Enjoy the flight. I should be visiting Tempelhof later this year too!

[Radar]

echobeach,

Sounds fantastic and it looks like the wx is going to be perfect. So .... why make it difficult? I've crossed the channel on a number of occasions in a Turbo Arrow returning to base here in Maastricht. My preferred routing is DVR KOK climbing underneath the Worthing CTA (Class A). Normally cross the Channnel at FL55 and request FL95 with Ostend on first contact. They'll do the co-ordination with Brussels and I have not yet been refused the clearance through Brussels Class B at FL90 VFR. At that level you're high enough to be less of a problem for their TMA traffic around EBBR. The routing east is KOK - MAK - LNO. I know this is a bit further south than you're planning but I doubt, in the grand scheme of things, it'll add much to your block time. The advantages are up in the FLs your TAS'll be better and it saves messing around with dodging CTRs / TMAs etc. Just VOR hop.

Some have had negative experiences with Brussels ACC but my experiences have been uniformly positive. Enjoy the trip!

PS I've just had alook at the German airspace chart we have here and after LNO you could consider routing COL -WRB - MAG - destination. About the only airspace concern is EDDK. If you don't get crossing clearance from them, a couple of degrees right around NOR will keep you clear of their airspace and you can do the entire transit at FL95.

[echobeach]

Backpacker that it is really most helfpul. Exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping my reading of the way through was roughly OK and those tips were most useful.I think I will go under the TMA as I wanted to get this route done as also planning return shortly to Leystad and on to Denmark. The weather does look good enough for this weekend and you advice has really helped complete the planning

[echobeach]

radar
That is great especially as a routing via / near Brussels was plan B if the weather more to the north not as good as forecast. I like the idea of the higher level transit for Germany. Will let you know how we get on.

[IO540]

Check the UK weather carefully. It doesn't look quite "perfect" on Sunday.

[S-Works]

As I says I would be looking very carefully at the weather for VFR this weekend. Not a pretty picture at the moment.

[youngskywalker]

Great place to visit for the shear history value. Still plenty of evidence around the place of the initial owners of this airport!

[S-Works]

We are going on a massive flyer forums trip at the end of May.

[BackPacker]

also planning return shortly to Leystad and on to Denmark

If you go to Lelystad, read up on the way to approach the field. There's been a nasty midair there a few months ago where two members of my club died. They've changed the approach and departure procedures since and are checking that everybody complies. Oh, and the landing fees are pretty outrageous for what's essentially an uncontrolled field.

I can recommend restaurant Flantuas, on top of the Martinair flying school building, for lunch though.

Returning from Denmark, a more scenic route (but a little more flying) would be to track along the coast all the way, with a stop at Texel airport (EHTX). They have customs available (PN required though), Jet-A and 100LL. Uncontrolled, 1115m grass. Good restaurant/hotel on the field, very friendly people running the airfield. It is one of the favourite GA destinations in the Netherlands.

On that route, the only thing to watch out for is EH(R)-4. Frequently intensive military training going on there, mostly (but not exclusively) on weekdays. If they're active (Dutch Mil will know) you can contact "Cornfield" on 122.10 and see if you can get a clearance through but they will not be happy with that as it interrupts the training. Better route if they're active will be the Ameland-Harlingen corridor, then via de "Afsluitdijk" to Den Oever and then either to EHTX in the corridor or south.

Further down the route, it's a non-event to get clearance through the EHKD CTR, and the EHVB CTR no longer exists.

[bookworm]

I am planning to cross from DVR VOR and then route direct to KOK VOR and then round the back of Oostende to the COA VOR. (no comments please about being clever with VORs. Just seems a good aid to VFR nav). Then intend routing to Romeo near Rotterdam and dropping down to 1200 feet QNH talking to Dutch Mil and crossing to PAM VOR under the TMA.

If I were going VFR to EDDI (which I haven't done for many years), after COA I'd head for RKN or just south of it, staying well south of EHRD and EHAM. Then crossing in Germany you're north of the busy area around EDDL and you can head straight for Berlin. You might need to talk to, and route north or south of, Muenster and Hannover, but that's pretty straightforward.

[echobeach]

thanks for advice. I can see that certainly uk not looking good for sunday and realise we may have to stop or wait and have factored this into plans. Including maybe not getting into to home field on return. Can you tell me we are going to have a problem without mode s vfr in belgium or holland. Have phoned the german ais and clarified rules there and been told we will be allowed mode c through belgium and holland. Any comments. Have heard as many many views on this.

[echobeach]

bose x. Agree re weather in uk. Hoping either to do ils to man or snd if poss or stopping calais or continent and waiting for break in weather to get back. Weather holland to germany i read as looking se wind high pressure and thus hopefully ok for vfr back but not uk. Booking to do ir in new year !

[BackPacker]

Can you tell me we are going to have a problem without mode s vfr in belgium or holland.

Official rules are to be found in ENR 1.6 of the Dutch AIP. In short: Mode S is mandatory, except in the following cases:
- VFR flights are allowed with mode A and C only. (For now...)
- VFR flights below 1200' in class G do not need a transponder at all, with a few exceptions that don't apply here.

You may not activate your transponder below the Schiphol TMA 1 and 6. There is a Transponder Mandatory Zone around Eindhoven, and a Transponder Recommended Zone around Rotterdam.

[echobeach]

BackPacker
Thanks for that. Have now found the ENR section that refers. Most helpful

[echobeach]

That was simply an outstanding VFR trip and I am very grateful to those on PPrune who gave us advise re trip to EDDI tempelhof. It was really a great help.

VFR conditions across whole route out Saturday and back Sunday. 30km + vis across germany and real vfr possible, putting GPS and Navaids to one side.

Following the autobahn from old DDR border straight across to Postdam and holding points for CTR entry a superb trip.

BackPacker. Spot on advice for crossing Holland. Would have to say that actually with help from Oostende, Dutch Mil and Bremen a seamless FIS with advice, traffic notification and from their comments clearly having you on radar all the way makes traffic avoidance and flying very easy.

I would say best long touring to date and just two 2.5 hours legs out and back with a stop at Teuge in Holland for lunch and fuel. Left Berlin at 9 and back in London at 2 pm. Almost as quick as commercial flying without the queues.

Will be keen to get back to Germany and low countries for more. Superb VFR flying !

Flying in and out of Tempelhof VFR and following those airlift DC3s simply unforgettable.

[Radar]

Great stuff, echobeach. Sounds like it couldn't have gone any better.

Just hoping for similar wx when we attempt the North Cape in three weeks time.

[Piper19]

I flew a few times to Ostend, and it was my homebase for 3 years. Very helpfull, no problems. If you want to cross their CTR and you do come from uncontrolled airspace, you have to contact Ostend approach, not tower. Otherwise straightforward.
ps: EBOS is also worth a visit. You can have a nice walk on the beach, which is only a 5 minute walk from the airport entrance. During summer month weekends, they normally have a reduced landing fee on GA aircraft.
"Evergreen 747 number two to land, number one is a Piper Cub". Only at EBOS!

[BackPacker]

Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance...

Glad to be of help.

[140KIAS]

Very timely information as we are planning to fly our 182 from Scotland to Templehof next weekend.

Our preferred route is pretty much as described above, DVR - KOK - COA - just south of RKN then pretty much direct to EDDI.

Outbound we are planning to stop at St Omer in Northern France. Originally we had thought of Le Touquet on the return but we're now considering Ostend.

Ive splashed out on the Jepp France and Germany trip kits but didnt see the point in Holland or Belgium as originally we weren't planning to land.

Can anyone tell me if there is a Belgium equivalent of the AIP where I can download Ostend aerodrome charts etc. I have scoured the internet but everything seems for be for flightsimmers only.

[Chilli Monster]

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadcms/eadsite/index.php.html

Follow the instructions and register. When you log on you want to go to "Pams Light" and that will give you access to all European AIP's, including charts.

[RomeoZulu]

Given the interest in Tempelhof can any one advise the lastest charges for landing and parking overnight for PA28 type aircraft. Hopefully going soon. If you know the lastest fuel price that would be good info too.

Thanks

[wsmempson]

I went in May as part of the "F***R" flyin; we stayed 2 nights and the parking, handling and landing fees came to 80 euros.

Enjoy! It's a good trip - but not for the faint-hearted.
:ok:

We stopped for fuel at Padeborne (as we had been told incorrectly that there was no avgas at Tempelhof) and paid 2.48 euros per litre which, at 1.22 to the £, was a bit of a blow to the wallet...