Allowances Check

[beerdrinker]

BA Cabin Crew have just been advised that 10% of them will be randomly selected to provide HMRC with meal receipts to prove that allowances are spent on meals. This is part of a review of the tax liability of allowances. Apparently not only BA being targetted by HMRC. Other UK airlines as well. And pilots as well as Cabin Crew

[Juan Tugoh]

And your point is?

[Capt Pit Bull]

The only surprise is that its taken this long for the revenue to figure out that (imho) the industry routinely evades taxation with allowances rather than salary.

pb

[M.Mouse]

You mean like the way HMC & R do not have to provide receipts for expenses?

[sevenstrokeroll]

expect more fatter cabin crew

[lamina]

The point is-

Hope the Delsey diners are not the ones selected:mad:

[Mr Good Cat]

At least the Cabin Crew are actually out working for a living.

Shouldn't somebody be paying more attention to the billions being wasted by benefit fraud etc?

[Maude Charlee]

Well at least you have a chance to prove that allowances are reasonable or not before they get pulled. It's been over a year since our tax-free allowance was unilaterally ended by the tax office without notice, and it's been an uphill struggle since to get any of it back.

[RED WINGS]

Well I hope everyone will be saving there receipts to give to the selected few;)

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Affirm this is the case with other airlines. 10% of BA is a lot of Cabin Crew, seems a high figure to me. Its also a lot of CC forking out
10% has been quoted for my airline also, but only 180 pilots so 18. A 1 % figure for BA would seem more appropriate. I suspect the BA allowance structure is also the most complicated ? :\

[Hand Solo]

Flight crew allowances are dead easy, fixed rate per hour away from base. The cabin crew still have the highly complex system of payments per meal, variable by destination. Given the cabin crews preponderance for eating meals on room service they should be able to spend their allowances in no time at all!

[Witraz]

Mr Good Cat,
You missed the point. The government need more money from those who work and pay their taxes to cover these needy people on benefit. They are desperate for every penny they can lay their hands on.:ugh:

[Turn and Burn]

HMRC are operating an extortion racket on behalf of McBroon. McBroon decides how much he wants and sends his heavies to get the loot. Most of the time a written threat, in the form of a tax demand is enough to get the victim to part with their hard earned cash. Other times a visit is required with threats of prison. Muggers of old ladies in the street have more integrity.

Check out following site and see if you can spot the criminal activity. Demanding money with menaces is the clue:-

http://web.mac.com/nickmorgan/HMRC/tax-hell.co.uk

[757DRIVER]

Remember that individuals are under no obligation to keep meal receipts etc. If an analysis of 10% is to be carried out then the IR will have to ask them specifically to keep receipts for later analysis!

[XXPLOD]

As a former HM Customs & Excise Officer, I've no idea where you got that from? I got an 'investigators allowance' which was paid regardless which covered things like a coffee/newspaper bought whilst out on surveillance.

But anything else, inc. all mileage claims etc... an expenses claim had to be submitted and authorised by your line manager.

[MarcJF]

I guess what this boils down to is, is any payment:-

A) actually and necessarily incurred for the purpose of performing duties, or

B) an allowance

big difference as far as our friends at HMRC are concerned

[M.Mouse]

XXPLOD

Have a look at this information:

http://www.contractoruk.com/news/003751.html

It hit the national press after a long winded battle to have the information released under the FoI act.

One rule for robber Brown and civil servants and another for those having to actually earn the country's wealth.

[airmail]

Whilst I don't work for HMRC I do have a lot of experience in working with them (and I'm not a beancounter) but maybe you wish to consider the fact that it is not the individuals that they are looking at but the company as a whole. BA have - as we all know - had issues recently which may have raised their risk profile within Government. As there is a framework of paying these allowances so that they do not attract Tax or NI (see http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM05250.htm if you really want to) then it could be a double check that what is being claimed is as it should be.

However, I would like to point out that this doesn't mean that BA is under any specific investigation - it could just be that it is their turn to be fully audited

[Basil]

If HMRC have a look at the real cost of sustenance in the major cities of the world, they may get a shock which would, one hopes, result in their withdrawal of a time and cash wasting exercise.
On the other hand, if they keep it going, they will, as my wife said to me on a rare occasion when I accompanied her food shopping "Need to get real about prices!"

[parabellum]

As Red Wings suggests, when a crew member is one of the chosen few by HMRC then the whole crew gives them their receipts, properly organised this could show that the 10% sample 'prove' that crew spend approximately 30% to 50% more on meals than they are given as an allowance.

There is nothing unusual in the government looking after itself and servants at the expense of the rest. In several countries, Australia included, on reaching retirement age the DHSS pension is paid and frozen at that rate on that date for ever! However, if you happen to be a civil servant, MP etc. retiring to Australia yes, your DHSS pension is frozen but your Civil Service pension is grossed up to cover the shortfall brought about by freezing. Nice, isn't it? (Sorry, slight thread drift!;)).

[max nightstop]

Such an exercise is likely to give headaches to Lo-Co's who like to use large tax-free sector payments as a way of enticing pilots to join them. How much can you spend on a 4 sector day with short turnarounds?

[Re-Heat]

Public / private sector disparity in rules, and hypocracy by the rulemakers is totally out of date and out of order.

I have nothing to add to this thread particulaly other than my disgust at HMRC's recent behaviour to many common, decent taxpayers.

Before too long, they will have a mob of young, overtaxed, DC (if any) pension holders on their third job in as many years wielding pitchforks outside their offices. For too long, elder, DB-schemed, job-for-life public sector employees have pillaged tax revenues for their own benefit with the connivance of public sector unions.

Down with unions and up with open, transparent and free trade in labour.

(Rant off)

[Max Angle]

Just remember that Brown and Darling want every penny you earn, this is just another way of getting nearer that target.

[757_Driver]

Surely even if the HMRC muggers do tax the allowances we 'just' need to keep the receipts and stick them on a tax return at the end of the year.
For me this would actually result in me paying less tax, not more, due to our allowance rate and the cost of most of our layovers.
I know its a ballache, but burying these morons in paperwork is one way to get back at them!

[BEagle]

I do recall some excellent 'room service' I enjoyed with a lovely BA no. 1 in Bermuda many years ago.....

:E

[Looker]

The Lo-Co I work for was savaged by HMRC a year or so ago. They were aghast that we should want to apply RPI to our sector pay - so they stopped the tax free element.

We then had a nonsensical recepits debacle until we could prove that we were indeed entitled to claim a proportion of the sector pay tax free.

Given the difficulty of actually getting food/drink airside and the high cost caters charge, proving the case should not have been difficult - but HMRC managed to make the case as long and as tedious as possible.

Can't they find some non-doms to harass!

[goldcup]

What was his name BEags?

[Brakes...beer]

Re-Heat,

Spot on. I foresee the next-but-one Tory govt coming to power in 30 years' time, voted in by "mine angry and defrauded young." It will have a manifesto to cut pensions in payment to public sector pensioners, the ones who are currently kicking the arse out of the system.

[chippy63]

Brakes..beer
Great concept, but there are so many of Owd Broon's clients/state sector employees and dependents, each of whom have a vote: do turkeys vote for Christmas?

[b747 flightboy]

Hi all its getting late so will be brief tonight. I work for klm cityhopper, we had to do the exercise for the tax people last month. Currently we pay tax on 23% of our allowances. (currently 2.06 an hour) you are given a form to fill out and have to keep receipts for the duration of one month, to be then submitted via hr to hmrc. I'll find the letter we were given and post on here tomorrow. We're still waiting to hear the outcome. And yes, if you are a delsey diner or member of the samsonite supper club and are selected for the trial you are going to have to put your hand in your pocket and fork out. However do remind your fellow crew that the 3 coffees and 3 course ala carte for your tea is for their benefit as well as yours.
Regards
747

[fingal flyer]

Couldnt agree more.I dont know how they do it.In my job we spend lots of time away from home having to eat out at all times.We can therefore justify the need for away from home allowances like anybody else who works away.They get tax free allowances for going home every night,dont pick on the people who have to be away because of work.

[wheelbarrow]

My company was singled out about 15 months ago and a small number of crews had to provide receipts for expenses incurred while away from base. I found it relatively easy to spend the required amount, what with the charges made for room service and Airport Hotel restaurants. The threat was that they were going to remove all our tax free allowance, all of 25%! Not heard anything back since. This is done by individual tax offices, though it seems from this thread there is a concerted effort going on. They will have to get their act together as there is a clause in the tax law somewhere that no one can be treated differently from someone else, which means that as long as some tax office is allowing a tax free element of allowances you can appeal on the grounds that you are being treated differently.

[BEagle]

Not a 'he', Goldcup! Of that I am entirely sure!!

Neither were her delightful colleagues.

More seriously, the actual cost of 'the revenue' snouting around through cabin crews' meagre allowances will probably outweigh anything they manage to extract from the individual.

HMRC once had a good name for being reasonable. But NuLabor has turned them into 'the enemy' for their intrusive behaviour towards honest individuals, whilst thousands of illegal immigrants escape paying anything...

I do hope that cabin crew can find a whole range of receipts written in foreign languages or scribbled on the back of beer mats etc..... That should keep the revenue snoops busy!

[Stop Stop Stop]

I work for the same company as 747 and having seen the month of receipt gathering completed, there are a few observations that should be made.

Of the 10% to be selected, make sure that they are not Delsey Diners. It is imperative that those 'selected' fully use the daily allowance. If this means eating three square meals a day, then so be it. Some coffees for your colleagues can be bought- how about getting that pair of trousers dry cleaned whilst in a hotel? All essential stuff. Just get a receipt for it!

Those selected should ideally be people in other functions- union members, office workers etc, who find it easier to buy the requisite amount of food per day- it is no good if your roster keeps you in the air from morning to night. Preferably select someone well known for buying a round- we have such a well known Scottish gentleman who is very unlike his usual more frugal countrymen! I would imagine his bill would have been astronomical, which is what you need to offset those who are less able to spend.

Finally, select those who are able to afford to do the trial- it is imperative it does not fail as this has serious implications for the whole industry... 25% more tax on your allowances? How much will that be? Some schemes were set up for our company, to donate a tenner to those who were doing the recording or to leave receipts in a pigeon hole so they could be distributed. Make sure you book a Weightwatchers course for the completion. Good luck.

[Madbob]

IMHO the HMRC should use its manpower (+ girlpower, must be PC!) to sort out the 10p in the £ fiasco as a priority before wasting resources on chasing tax on aircrew allowances!

Our PM's U-turn will no doubt cost us tax payers even more when you tot up the wasted man-hours (sorry people-hours) the Revenue will have to spend sorting out tax credits, rebates and new tax codes for the 5+ Million affected.....This bit never seems to get mentioned in the press, I wonder why??:ugh:

HMRC will end up costing us £100 for every £25 this is likely to "save".....:ugh::ugh:

MB

[demomonkey]

As an employee of an airline who is about to be audited, am I legally obliged to provide the IR any receipts?

Surely it is my human right to spend my allowances how and when I wish and not disclose to the Government where I eat and if I opt for the lunchtime special or go a la carte? I could choose to eat out at the finest restaurants or stay in my room and survive on chewing gum and tap water and pocket the allowance but that's my choice.

Hardly a state secret I think and isn't it the responsibility of my Union/Employer to definite what is a 'reasonable' allowance?

So if I am asked, I am going to refuse. And I advise you all to do likewise.

Talking about double standards, can I ask the IR to provide me with a reason why they outsourced their office portfolio to a company based in an offshore tax haven? Surely some mistake?

[Freehills]

Demomonkey,

No, you are not legally obliged. The downside is though that the IR would use the lack of evidence of any spending on down-route necessities as an excuse to consider the allowances a taxable benefit.

Because it isn't your human right to spend them or not spend them as you see fit. They are tax free because the assumption is that they are real expenses of doing your job. If the IR finds out they are being used to boost peoples' take home tax free - they will tax them.

Of course it is double standards. The Government/ State is that entity which has a legal monopoly on violence and incarceration. You can fight The Man, but you will lose.

[DozyWannabe]

BEags:
...whilst thousands of illegal immigrants escape paying anything...
The largest numbers of whom are in fact white Australian/Kiwi/Saffa cash-in-hand workers in London, believe it or not. The Express, Mail and Sun never seem to mention them though...

And for those of you who believe the Tories will cut anyone's taxes but those on six figures plus, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[bonernow]

First Brown and Darling pick a fight with the old bill and refuse to give them a pay rise citing inflation. Excuse me but 120,000 workers in a country of 65 million can be responsible for increasing inflation? When all they were awarded was a pay rise in line with inflation??

Next there is the whole 10p tax rate debacle (Don't get me started).

And now, they're scutinising tax free allowances within the airlines.

Is it just me or does this have the whiff of financial mismanagement of this country on an industrial scale?

And now Brown and Darling are doing there utmost best to claw back every penny they can from hard working citizens because between them they've made a complete :mad: of things?

But on the other hand, it's quite acceptable for MP's to "investigate" themselves over their "allowances".

And we the British just say "Oh well musn't complain, it's one of those things".

We need to take a lead from the French and get a bit more militant from time to time. It might make our esteemed leadership actually take notice of our anger. They may have had a good kicking at the local elections but I wouldn't expect things to improve any time soon.

[757_Driver]

As I said previously though, I will just keep my receipts, stick em in a shoe box and send them to revenue with the tax return. It will result in me paying less tax than now, and I'll let them deal with the mess.

[ItsAjob]

Why have some of the replies been deleted from this post??

[DozyWannabe]

Presumably because we were straying off-topic into political territory. Fair enough, really.

[757_Driver]

its a bit difficult to have this discussion thought without straying into political teritory!

The background to why the revenue are doing this is entirely political!

[DozyWannabe]

Maybe so, but if the mods don't want that kind of discussion in *this* forum, then that's the way of it. Danny's forum, Danny's staff, Danny's rules.

[ltn and beyond]

This is a subject, that I'm sure, we will see looked at by HMRC many times during our careers as the taxman wants to be sure we dont get something we shouldn't get !!!.

I know that many crew use their allowances downroute quite carefully and therefore have a surplus when they return home, so they can afford to pay the tax to fill up their cars i guess !!. But if you are asked to provide receipts then it is absolutely essential that correct spending of allowances is shown, or a guaranteed increase in tax on allowances will follow.

In summary for those who say they cant afford to spend all down route, for the period of the tax inspectors check at least, you cant afford not too!!