What is the Award Wage?

[struba]

I'm in the job market atm have noticed lots of employers advertising above award wages. Can anyone give me info on what the award wage is for GA and/or Airline jobs in Oz?

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

........No

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Ha ha, JK. Haven't got the numbers in front of me but check wageline. I think Single driver piston Day VFR you're looking at 35,000 p.a. but don't quote me.

FRQ CB

Hey, it's just occured to me that it's late Friday night and I'm PPRuNe-ing... and disgustingly sober. Wow, what happened to my social life? (and closet drinking?)

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Hey I think that I'm the only one here. Hello <llo hello hello> Is anybody there? <there there there.> Booga booga boo <boo boo boo>... Wow I suck <you suck, you suck, you suck>:(

FRQ CB
(stone cold sober, giving the liver a day off):ok:

[Bendo]

Pilot's (General Aviation) Award 1998 (updated Feb 2008) (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?id=103&nav_cat_id=130&nav_top_id=74&dsb=1049)

...on the AFAP website. Of course, a member of the union would know that.... after all, it was the AFAP that negotiated it.

Wish they'd re-negotiate it :*

Here you go, have even done the maths for you:

SE Day VFR driver should get $33488 pa - add 1128 if you need NVFR and $4510 if you need a CIR.

Chieftain driver should get $42,209.

This is assuming the boss pays for everything - there are multiple allowances for meals, dud accommodation, uniforms, etc etc etc.

[aldee]

I always thought it was just another of those aviation myth's....:hmm:

[Lasiorhinus]

No, its for real, and employers who don't pay it leave themselves open to prosecution.

[capt_akun]

Lasiorhinus,

Is that for real?? Place i am working with (small charter company) makes us as subcontractors, so we don't get anything. Is that even legal??? :*

[Bendo]

Well for a start, it may well result in a breach of the tax and superannuation laws.

The Tax office has a fairly set idea of what an "employee" is, and what a "contractor" is.

A contractor:
*supplies his own tools
*supplies his own work systems
*may set his own work times and make his own arrangements to do the work
*may take instructions from the primary contractor about what work shall be done or the outcomes, but not how the work is to be done; and
*does work for a number of different clients.

If you work more than 80% of your time with the one employer, if you don't supply your own aircraft, if you turn up to work when he says, and if you do his work his way and under his direct control, you are an employee.

If that is the case he MUST pay tax for you (deduct it from your wages) in the PAYG system and he MUST pay an extra 9% of your salary into superannuation.

Here's the first link I found when I Googled "Tax Law contractor": CONTRACTOR OR EMPLOYEE? (http://www.apesma.asn.au/newsviews/professional_update/1997/march/article11.htm)

Here's another tool, this time from the ATO: Employee/contractor decision tool (http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/00095062.htm)

If you're still confused, and if you're a member, ring the AFAP for some advice. :ok:

[Zhaadum]

"What is the Award Wage?"

TOO BLOODY LOW MATE! :{

[ops_are_normal]

That is some interesting news about contractor pilots Bendo, a certain place in WA must not apply to any of those laws for a certain company. :=

[Green gorilla]

Yep Polar:ugh:

[aileron_69]

The way I view the "award wage" is that is is essentially the minimum wage. So why is it that damn near every aviation company in the country sees it as a "maximum wage"???? If you are an employer and are paying the award, then you are a TIGHTASS!!!! Get the damn gorse out of your pockets!!
I was thinking about it the other day, Say you're charging your clapped out old 210 at say, 500 an hour? (not sure on current average rates) and you pay your girls and boys of the sky 45-50 an hour, honestly now, how much difference would it make to kick the charter rate up to 540 an hour, and pay these poor souls 80 bucks an hour!! Let them go out and have some fun in the bars of the Northwest at the weekends instead of stacking supermarket shelves to pay the rent!! Might even slow your pilot drain a bit too!!!

Just a thought

[tail wheel]

"If you are an employer and are paying the award, then you are a TIGHTASS!!!!"

I assume you mean:
"If you are an employer and are NOT paying the award, then you are a TIGHTASS!!!!"

Either way, your statement is not totally true! The correct statement is:

"If you are an employee working for less than the relevant Award entitlements, you are a FOOL!!!!"

If you are competent to pass and obtain a CPL, one expects you should be intelligent and responsible for your own actions and decisions.

[aileron_69]

Yeah well if you are paying less than the award then you should be dragged through court and/or taken out the back and shot. If you work for less than the award then perhaps just taken out the back and shot.

What im saying is, most other industries pay well above the minimum wage/award, so aviation, which is a relatively skilled sort of profession, should pay at least a bit above the award, not using it as a target!!
I know a few outfits who are so proud that they pay the award and have even been heard bragging about how well they pay their staff.

Ok this has given me an idea for a different, more relevant thread

[Lasiorhinus]

I totally agree - the minimum wage is precisely that - a minimum, not a target.

Just because an employer brags about paying above award does not necessarily make it true.:yuk:

[rwy01]

It is quite interesting that this matter has not been bought up earlier, The way the market is today I find it very hard to believe that Pilots are willing to go on contracts of employment if it is below the minimum wage.

We are doing ourselves a grave misjustice for doing such a thing.

The demand that is Being placed for pilots in the indusrty you can just about set your own wage ( in particular Instuctors worht ther weight in gold).

This is the time for us to stand as one and make some blo*dy money, the operators are believe me, its about we do and are recognised for what we do.

In regards to Contracting as mentioned in earlier thread, it is illegal I know from first habd because I have challenged an employee about it and won.

ONCE AGAIN LETS STAND UP FOR OUR RIGHTS AND BE RECIOGNISED AS A PROFFESIONAL PILOTS NOT **** KICKER PILOTS LIVING ON A THREAD EACH WEEK.

[Two_dogs]

$60 000 + 9% super.

GA Twin

Two Dogs

[Lasiorhinus]

It is quite interesting that this matter has not been bought up earlier, The way the market is today I find it very hard to believe that Pilots are willing to go on contracts of employment if it is below the minimum wage.

I can feel the thread drifting, but you raise an interesting point.

Who, working in GA, actually has an employment contract (or agreement, or something on paper) that defines the financial relationship between you and your employer?

Who, on the other hand, is working purely under a verbal agreement?

Purely anecdotally, it seems a large amount of GA companies are allergic to written agreements - I've had one operator tell me "Oh, we don't need employment contracts here", and and another say "We don't have them - we're pretty relaxed around here".

[tail wheel]

"It is quite interesting that this matter has not been bought up earlier"

It's been done to death on PPRuNe over the years - but it never stopped pilots working for less than their legal entitlements!

We gave up naming and shaming employers. Perhaps it's time we named and shamed pilots who accept employment on less than Award conditions??? :ugh:

"Who, working in GA, actually has an employment contract (or agreement, or something on paper) that defines the financial relationship between you and your employer?

Who, on the other hand, is working purely under a verbal agreement?"

Pray tell, what purpose would that serve? :confused: :confused: :confused:

You are either employed under an individual registered ITEA, a registered collective EBA, another legitimate form of registered industrial instrument, or the Award applies.

No employee in Australia is exempt, nor can they contract out of their legislated entitlements.

I am yet to see a legitimate circumstance where an individual pilot may be employed "on Contract" as a "sub contractor"! :yuk: Whilst I am open to suggestions, I do not believe it possibly under Australian law and in particular Australian tax law. Read Bendo's post above - he's spot on the money! :ok:

I sincerely recommend you read of the current Workplace Relations Act 1996 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/0/67F07A6832543892CA25741F001AA724?OpenDocument) and the Pilots (General Aviation) Award (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?id=103&nav_cat_id=130&nav_top_id=74&dsb=1049) and if necessary, seek advice from the AFAP (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s01_home/home.asp?dsb=9) or Workplace Authority (http://www.workplaceauthority.gov.au/).

It intrigues me why an individual would study for one to two years, spending something in excess of $70,000 to obtain a CPL, whilst having no idea of his/her entitlements, not read the relevant industrial relations legislation and accept employment on little or no remuneration. :confused: :confused: :confused:

At least five or six who posted in this thread should have saved their $70,000 CPL cost - Maccas are paying $17 per hour, full time work, no training required! :ok:

Un-believable!!! :mad:

[Lasiorhinus]

Pray tell, what purpose would that serve? :confused: :confused: :confused:


What purpose? To increase our broader understanding of the aviation world. What purpose does the rest of PPRuNe serve?


You are either employed under an individual registered ITEA, a registered collective EBA, another legitimate form of registered industrial instrument, or the Award applies.


There's also the people employed on verbal agreements, who trust their employer in the beginning, but when the employer changes their mind, find it very costly to prove the terms of an agreement. That was rather the point of the question, to see how prevalent this practise is.



Maccas are paying $17 per hour, full time work, no training required! :ok:



I appreciate the spirit in which you remark, but the McDonalds Award specifies a three-month training period during which wages are considerably lower than what you would get upon completion of your initial three months, and for any progression within the company other than operating a cash register or cooking hamburgers, there is a great deal of training to undertake.

[tail wheel]

"There's also the people employed on verbal agreements, who trust their employer in the beginning, but when the employer changes their mind, find it very costly to prove the terms of an agreement."I'm not getting the facts across here...... :ugh:

The only "verbal agreement" possible would be one in which the remuneration and/or terms and conditions exceed legislated (i.e. Award) entitlements.

An Award terms and conditions are the minimum, basic terms and conditions on which one may be lawfully employed in Australia. One can not be employed on an "agreement" where the remuneration or any other term or condition is less than that provided for in the relevant Award.

No Australian worker may be employed on any form of registered agreement which fails the No Disadvantage Test (http://www.workplaceauthority.gov.au/) - I recommend you click on the link and read carefully.

In general, verbal agreements are not worth the paper they are not written on!

My local Maccas are offering $17 per hour (adult rate) to start, no training required, full time shifts, immediate start. They also employ overseas workers at the DIAC MSL of $37,665 per annum ($19.06 per hour).

[ContactMeNow]

Is that for real?? Place i am working with (small charter company) makes us as subcontractors, so we don't get anything. Is that even legal???

There must be two operators in WA that do it, the other being a bit further north an where Polar is based.....I have lost count of the pilots that have moved through this place, but when good pilots (and good blokes i might add). I hear the palce has just received a payrise, yet still well below the GA pilot award and yes your still a contractor...So this means your have to pay for super (9%), work out your own tax, have your own workers comp...also what happens if you bust up a plane and its deemed the "pilots fault" does that mean he will sue you for failing your job as a professional contractor? Try to recover the cost of the equipment you busted up....Also makes it alot easier to get rid of pilots as "we dont require your contracting services anymore".. Yet the funny thing is that through the grapevine I have not heard of anything being signed for when you start up, its a case of we own you 24/7 if you dont like it leave...which makes me think that your more an employee than a contractor...say I only want to work weekdays? Is it possible to charge more for weekends or public holidays? what about late/last minute call outs, plumbers/locksmiths etc charge up to $200 for a call out plus an hourly rate...

From a business owners point of view it makes perfect sense, dont have to pay super, payroll tax, pay extra for workers comp.... when business is slow you dont have to pay your employee's, no wait sorry contractors...

But the stone is turning, its sad when a pilot with 300hrs and has just started with the said company is looking for work elsewhere as they are feed up with it all...all after the best part of 3 weeks...


Well for a start, it may well result in a breach of the tax and superannuation laws.

The Tax office has a fairly set idea of what an "employee" is, and what a "contractor" is.

A contractor:

*supplies his own tools
*supplies his own work systems
*may set his own work times and make his own arrangements to do the work
*may take instructions from the primary contractor about what work shall be done or the outcomes, but not how the work is to be done; and
*does work for a number of different clients.
If you work more than 80% of your time with the one employer, if you don't supply your own aircraft, if you turn up to work when he says, and if you do his work his way and under his direct control, you are an employee.

If that is the case he MUST pay tax for you (deduct it from your wages) in the PAYG system and he MUST pay an extra 9% of your salary into superannuation.

Here's the first link I found when I Googled "Tax Law contractor": CONTRACTOR OR EMPLOYEE? (http://www.apesma.asn.au/newsviews/professional_update/1997/march/article11.htm)

Here's another tool, this time from the ATO: Employee/contractor decision tool (http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/00095062.htm)

If you're still confused, and if you're a member, ring the AFAP for some advice. :ok:

So if the boys that have gone through this place get in touch with AFAP and the tax office and they have kept all relevant documentation :E to prove they worked there and did the hours etc then are they entitled to being back paid? say atleast 15 pilots at $25k/yr thats over $30k in super payouts....is it possible to charge interest if you havnt been paid super for a year or so? Plus back pay from being paid under the award so make that another $15/hr at 500-600hrs a year (thats airswitch :}) so $15/hr x 500 = $7500 over 15 pilots...over $100k......so thats atleast $130k extra in someones back pocket instead of the pilots....

Just to get you thinking....As operators are making money...time to get want you deserve....nah WHAT YOUR ENTITLED TO!!!!!


CMN :ok:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Hey that's a great idea and they would be able to give you some good advice. But hang on a sec...

...I'll bet they're not members of the AFAP :ugh:

Try going to AAMI after your car has been stolen and ask them if they'll replace it. :confused:

[tail wheel]

The Australian Tax Office (http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/content/61646.htm) defines:

Employee

An employment relationship exists if some or all of the following factors are present:

the payer controls the way in which the worker performs his/her duties
the worker performs the duties of their position and cannot delegate or contract out their work
the worker is recognised as a part of the payer's organisation
the worker is not responsible for providing the materials or equipment required to do the job
the worker is paid for the time worked, rather than on the completion of a specific task
the worker takes no commercial risks and cannot make a profit or loss from the work performed
the worker receives paid leave (for example, sick, annual or recreation, or long service leave), or
work hours are set by an agreement or award.None of these factors alone is indicative of an employment relationship. The totality of the relationship between the parties and a consideration of all the factors is required.

If a worker is an employee, you must withhold an amount from any salary, wages, commissions, bonuses or allowances you pay to the employee and send the amounts withheld to the Tax Office. An employer may also have obligations under fringe benefits tax and the superannuation guarantee laws.

Independent contractor

An independent contractor agrees to achieve a specified result for an agreed price. In most cases an independent contractor:

is paid for results achieved
provides all or most of the necessary materials and equipment to complete the work
is free to subcontract the work to other entities
has freedom in the way the work is done subject to the specific terms of the contract
bears the commercial risk and responsibility for any poor workmanship or injury sustained in the performance of work
provides services to the general public and other businesses as well as the payer.
is free to accept or refuse work, and
is in a position to make a profit or loss.If a worker is an independent contractor, you (the employer) are required to withhold an amount from payments to them only where the contractor:

has entered into a voluntary agreement
provides their work or services for a client of yours under a labour hire arrangement, or
has not quoted their ABN to you.Superannuation guarantee laws may apply to payments for work or services by an independent contractor in some cases.

If, for example, as a commercial pilot you conduct a flight in an AOC holder's aircraft, under the auspices of an operator/employer's AOC, in accordance with the operator's Operations Manual, in a manner, time and as prescribed by the operator, how can you possibly be anything other than an employee???

capt_akun, you are not a sub contractor - you are an employee!!

As an employee, you must be engaged and remunerated under the terms and conditions of an Award, a registered AWA/ITEA or a registered EBA. Your employer must deduct PAYG taxation and pay the Superannuation Guarantee Levy of 9%.

But don't take my word for it - call the ATO 13 28 66 and get it from the horse's mouth!

Your purported "sub contract" arrangement with your employer is illegal and leaves your employer - and yourself to a degree - exposed to action by the Australian Tax Office.

Unbelievable! When will people learn??????? :mad: :yuk:

[notmyC150v2]

For those of you who are not members of AFAP you can either come to me and I will charge you only $180 per hour to get your money back, OR, you can call the Workplace Ombudsman and they will get it back for you for free.

On top of getting unpaid wages to you the Workplace Ombudsman will prosecute the employer for breaching the relevant Award and Australian Pay and Classification Scale.

Although employers in the past have been willing to fight a wages claim to starve the employee out, they will not risk the prosecution from the WO. There have been a number of cases recently where an employee was awarded less than $30,000 in unpaid wages by the Federal Magistrates Court and then the Employer was also fined about $90,000 for breaching the law.

Believe me when I say that Employers are terrified of the Workplace Ombudsman and prosecution in the Federal Mags Court. And you can't starve the buggers out, they just refuse to go away.

If you have been exploited and underpaid, make a complaint and get if fixed. A few operators paying whopping fines should sort it out fairly quickly I imagine.

Click on the link if you would like to see a few examples.

http://www.wo.gov.au/asp/index.asp?sid=7407&page=legal-action-view&cid=5369&id=735

[tail wheel]

notmyC150v2

Not a bad batting average - one conviction every couple of days! :ok:

And still many pilots continue to prostitute themselves by accepting employment on terms and conditions which are not compliant with Australian industrial law, come and bleat on PPRuNe about their employers, then wonder why they get no sympathy or respect from their industry peers - or future employers!

Tail Wheel

[Johnny_56]

sorry slight thread drift possibly, but does anyone know whether employers are legally required to provide fortnightly (or otherwise) pay slips or something similar?

i know from previous jobs these normally provide details of allowances etc that have been paid

cheers

[Bendo]

It is a legal requirement that you receive a payslip for each pay period showing precisely how much you have been paid
*in wages;
*in allowances;
*in Superannuation; and
*how much tax has been paid on your behalf.

Full details HERE (http://www.workplaceinfo.com.au/nocookie/subjects/PayandConditions/pay_slips.htm)

:ok:

[capt_akun]

tail wheel,

I have to agree with you that many pilots accept the poor terms and conditions just so they can build some hours. However, I think a portion of others do not simply understand what they are entitled to, nor understand the system because they are fresh in the industry, eg. ME!!.

But I have to say, pprune has taught me a lot of things, and your post and many others have made it clear on where I stand.

akun:ok:

[tail wheel]

Cap'n.

Glad we've been of assistance! Now you either need to sort our your employment relationship with your present "employer" or go find a real employer that will reward your efforts with your correct entitlements.

Good luck Mate! :ok:

[adamk]

Just did a bit of calling on this matter...and probably clear up something

The pilot award system does not count in Western Australia. So, effectively, in WA, you are "award-free". (this information is from ATO, Workplaceinfo...etc)

[bushy]

Wages are low in GA because PILOTS have made it so, by trying to undercut their "mates" and get the work.
PILOTS can fix it.
And if you boast about flying a "clapped out" 210 you are a fool. You should not be flying it if it is "clapped out". This is nothing to boast about.
If you set low standards for yourself you are doing the profession and the industry and yourself a dis service.

[sugarbirdlady]

again, a bit off track, but what are the consequences of bending an aircraft whilst being a contract pilot?

are you liable?

[kooim]

again, a bit off track, but what are the consequences of bending an aircraft whilst being a contract pilot?

are you liable?

Try it and see ..... :}

Depends very much on the circumstances of the prang .. it would have to be done on a case by case basis. Not my idea of fun really ...

[bushy]

Why do you work for "dodgy" operators who don't pay properly?
That is what the real problem is.

[tail wheel]

"again, a bit off track, but what are the consequences of bending an aircraft whilst being a contract pilot?"

Consequences - you mean liability - to whom? You'll have to pay a lawyer for an answer to that.

However, every operator is required to hold insurance under the Carrier's Liability Act, so passenger claims should be covered.

[notmyC150v2]

The pilot award system does not count in Western Australia. So, effectively, in WA, you are "award-free". (this information is from ATO, Workplaceinfo...etc)

Not entirely correct. If you are a Heli pilot or an Ag pilot then you are covered by an Award. If you are a GA pilot you are Award free but still entitled to the minimum standards in the Australian Fair Pay and Conditions Standard.

You are also entitled to be paid for each hour you work. That means that every hour you are required to attend to the workplace (cleaning hangars, washing planes etc not just flying time) you must be paid for. This is the important bit because some people are of the opinion that if you are Award free you are completely on your own. Not true.

[adamk]

notmyC150v2 - oops i should be more specific. but the minimum general standard award, and i wasn't listening 100% in regards to the ATO person was somewhere in the 13 dollar mark. which isnt a h3ll alot.. :\

[bushy]

I did have to find my way from nothing, and did run into operators who did not pay much. i searched and found work that did pay. Work that others did not know about, or could not or would not do. I had to borrow to get a CIR, and filled my first log book with 5000 hours of single time. I got paid for it. I did NOT work for sub standard wages.