Air Japan

[ironbutt57]

Recent AEPS Air Japan thru Parc recruiting for Canada/USA basings....Any ideas info reasons?

[Flame Out]

ANA trying to compete with JAZ (JAL)? :rolleyes:

[ironbutt57]

No ideas here....just had a mate of mine go there...wondered of the japan basings were to remain, or if all crews would be "home-based" and commuted to work...........is gilligan's island sandy and hot with halloween costume worn year 'round?

[vertical speed]

Parc are looking for more "commuting" crews for the 767-300. Any comments from existing encumbents would be appreciated- I hear that the check/training regime was aggressive to say the least! has it improved? How difficult is the mandatory Japanese ATPL Course?

[Flame Out]

Japanese ATPL is part of the training, 6-8 months. JAZ-JALways(HACS and IASCO)have been doing it for years. Rumor has it that $1000 USD, no receipt, travel allowance is part of the contract. Not sure what the f/o would make but captain's pay is around $10,500 USD...Gilligan's Island is hot but not quite so sandy. Halloween? Nah, more like Disneyland. :cool:

[Kaptin M]

The money quoted does NOT include tax, and as the HACS ads seem to indicate, they are looking for pilots with Australian and New Zealand residency to fill the positions. Therefore one would assume that the pilots will have to pay tax in one of those countries. Apparently ANA (Air Japan) have stated that they will NOT assist with the issuance of a resident visa for Japan, so that counts out trying to get away from Aussie/N.Z. tax by saying you were resident o/s, leaving you with about 60% of the quoted salary, AFTER TAX.
Not really such a great deal!

The JCAB licence course now takes about (only??) 4 months, including Radio Law and a practical test of the phoenetic alphabet. JCAB will monitor some of the written exams...penalty for cheating is a 2 year freeze until you are eligible for a re-sit!
Be prepared and WILLING to learn the Japanese way of doing things (there are 2 ways of doing things the easy way, and the Japanese way, which takes 5 times longer).
And NEVER, EVER, ask "Why?"!
The medicals are extremely thorough, and the initial failure rate is moderately high, even for those who have never had any problems before.

If you're out of work now, this one might be worth considering - bear in mind though it's a 5 1/2 year contract on an aging aeroplane. If you're currently employed, I'd be thinking long and hard, and asking HACS/PARC a lot of questions, esp. wrt tax and exactly WHAT travel arrangements they have in place for your days off.
The travel to and from Oz/N.Z. SHOULD be on a CONFIRMED First/Business class deal.

[2XL]

Kaptin M you raise an interesting point re the travel arrangements. It has been suggested that you will receive USD $1000 each month as a "travel allowance". It has been suggested that you would be entitled to ID 50/75 with the likes of ANA, Ansett and ANZ. I guess this suggests that the seats would be on a "standby basis" then ? So how much would a full fare from Osaka or Tokyo to Brisbane or Sydney be then ?

[eyes wide shut]

Isn't ID 50 positive space, and anything ID 75 or better is standby?
FYI...F/O's are on 7700USD...Parc Aviation website.
NZ to Japan NZD$1600 USD$1000 = NZD$2380
not to bad really.

[Kaptin M]

Remember that any ID travel you might get - ask HACS and PARC to show you the ACTUAL ID travel agreements they have in place :( - are based on the HIGHEST FARE structure, and any prices thrown about, such as those by eyes wide shut are either one-off specials with restrictions, or simply ONE WAY!! The FULL fare EY class ticket with Ansett from KIX-BNE/SYD-KIX is around AUD3,000.
The commuting part of this package is what makes it desirable - don't let the agencies sign you up for 5 years unless they have a definite travel agreement in place. Forget the travel allowance - trade it for a confirmed First or Business Class seat from Japan to home....coming back - who cares! It's in the company's interest to get you back for work, and that should not be a headache for you, otherise, travelling on sub-load you may find that it takes a couple of days (out of YOUR days off) to get away, and coming back Air Japan (like any other employer) will tell you to "come back a day or two early, just to be sure." Fine, it's YOUR days off that you are being told to sacrifice, add to that extra accomodation for unbudgeted nights in Japan.
Get the travel straightened out - it IS important! But put the onus on HACS/PARC/ANA - it's a fairly "airy-fairy" deal at the moment, and the money is NOWHERE near enough to cover the cost of a full fare confirmed ECONOMY class ticket! Don't be suckered in by the lure of a few extra dollars.

[fullforward]

Kaptim,

Congratulations for your great posts!
This is what a real professional pilots board need. You're a nice chap!

[eyes wide shut]

Just offering an idea of what it costs from NZ,return by the way,the actual discounted fare is less I believe around NZD$1400. Your getting wripped off their in Aussi!!!
Yes, as we all know, ID travel is based upon the highest economy fare...haven't worked that one out yet but from previous ID travel certainly cheaper, even ID 50'Positive'.
For those who are out of work now, as KM said,have a look,there will be a spare slot as KM won't take the job as, is so wound up with tax and travel allowances.
I can't say that I agree that the commuting part of this package is what makes it desirable 'quote KM' the whole package looks desirable. Just need to pass that damn medical!!!

[2XL]

I do not have too much experience with ID travel as I try to avoid it. However could you not get several ID50's from ANA and book seats that suite your roster. This way you pay less for your tickets and have confirmed travel in place ? Just an idea.

Who tends to be the most competitive to OZ/NZ from Japan - ANA, Ansett or ANZ ?

How much is a business class seat from Kansai or Narita to Bne or Syd ?

[eyes wide shut]

2XL...I guess that would be worth a look at. Although, as Kaptin M mentioned you would need to find out what Interline Agreements are in place for such travel. ANA has an agreement with ANZ for example but does that extend to their subsidary Air Japan?
Regarding competitiveness, certainly good to get the right price,probably more important is the frequency of flights to and from OZ/NZ.

[ironbutt57]

Thanks for the answers..on a better deal...staying put...bye for now...(ageeing with Kaptin M" (Wow)

[2XL]

Ironbutt - where is this better deal to be had then ? I was under the impression that the Air Japan contract $ was quite competitive when viewed in its totality ?

[fire wall]

Parc and Air Japan not interested in trvl arrangements....I speak with 1st hand knowledge and candidates are left in no doubt at the interview. Some investigation for you:

1. ID trvl ex Australia not viable as high density traffic route code shared between 3 airlines.Good chance that there will be a time you will not make it to work so will have to call in sick to cover your arse. 12 sick days allowed in 5 year contract and I reckon you may need them. Full fare economy fluctuates around the 3800 AUD dollar mark depending on the season so their "generous USD 1000" tvl allowance falls far short.For the gentleman previous, you can be bumped on an ID 50 "supposedly firm" ticket by anyone who has a full fare or, depending on the airline, discounted full fare economy ticket. If you don't beleive this then ask any Emirates staff. They even get bumped so as to put on more freight!

2. Accomodation arrangements are, I quote : "an agreement btwn Air Japan and the Kansai Airport hotel that crews will be elidgable for a rate of $ 50 USD/ngt". This coincidently is the same amount as the accomodation allowance of $400 USD / month (ie 8 days in Osaka). No pre booking of rooms by either parc or Air Japan for their crews.....no arrangements made if hotel is fully booked.

3. 10 days off /month but only gauranteed 8 days off in 1 block.If commuting from Australia/NZ and assuming worst case senario of finishing duty after 8pm Japan time then must wait until 8pm next day to catch flight home (daily departing approx 8pm). On return trip flights leave Australia early morning so potentially you have lost 2 days of 8 days off to traveling.This is not as unlikely as you may think keeping in mind that A.J. is primarily to service the tourist market and most tourists, given the choice, tend to choose return flights arriving Japan later in the day / evening so as to maximise time in holiday destination.What of the other 2 days off you ask to make up the contracted 10 days off / month.Not enough time to travel to your home base and you are left paying accomodation in a bloody small hotel room, finding enough carpet to do some push ups is a challenge and again I speak from experience. End result is you may get as little as 6 days/month at home and you can be damm sure the 10500 USD they are paying you will not go far in the subsequent divorce!

4.Compare this to Skymark deal:
(i)This is a TAX PAID CONTRACT. If , for whatever reason you expose yourself to a tax position in Australia/ NZ/ UK then it is up to Parc to sort it out. The money you are paid (just been given a pay rise to 11 k USD/month )is the money you get.

(ii)Own fully furnished apartment in Tokyo with tel and elec. hooked up at no cost to employee however you pay the bills.

(iii)Confirmed Business class ticket home every month (this is costing Parc about £2500/ month to send the guys back to the UK and $4500 AUD/month for Australian guys.... big slice from their take).

(iv) 300 USD/month laundry allowance.

(v) all taxi fares associated with travelling to / from work related / commuting activities are reimbursed ( 10 min taxi fare about $40 USD)

5. Tax is definitely an issue. In NZ you will definitely be paying tax. In Australia there is a posibility that you may not meet the provisions of Section 23AG. My accountant was very wary of such. Do you really want to be a test case?

6. Contract completion bonus of 30K USD is just 500 USD every month taken from your wage and invested at paltry European Central Bank rate of 2% which is absolutely pathetic. In essence it is an insurance policy held by Parc that you will complete the contract and, if not, it will cost them nothing out of their pocket to get a replacement. Parc would not be drawn on whether bonus owed would be forthcomming should you be unable to complete contract through reasons outside your control,ie sickness/loss of medical/family crisis. this was brought to light after a Skymark pilot was put in similar situation and when questioned his position was given very ambiguous reply leaving all in the dark.

Any wonder why they are now looking elsewhere for crews (ie Hawaii/US), obviously the word is now out that this is not good enough.

Parc guy (G.O.)looking after contract is a good guy and I beleive has the pilots best intrests at heart but contract is too loosely worded.

For those that really need a job then go for it,at least you now know what you are getting in for. For those who are already gainfully employed and have the luxury to wait for something better, your wait may not be long as there is more in the pipeline but not before US economy picks up. However, if companies such as Parc get the message that Pilots as a group will accept such a contract (which I think I have shown not to be up to speed ) then they will keep trying this on. For me,I require better.

[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: fire wall ]

[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: fire wall ]

[2XL]

What has been past experience re extension of the contracts ? Are you likely to be offered another 5-10 yrs after the initial 5 yr contract ?

If you signed a 5 yr FO contract, is it likely that you could be upgraded to Captain inside 5 yrs ?

[fire wall]

There is no past experience to base judgement on re A.J. as they have only recently begun operating with contract crew although have been flying under A j logo since Jan with seconded crew from ANA.

It is a pertinent question however and would be best put to former crews from WACS, another low cost subsiduary set up by ANA in 94 or 95 and wound up in circumstances described by some as leaving a very bad taste in the mouth. I don not recall if any FO's were upgraded in WACS however parc have said to candidates that upgrades will happen in A.J. GREAT !!! Now how about putting that in the contract.
Answer - silence

[2XL]

firewall I have heard similar re the Parc/Air Japan "promise" to promote. I can't see them putting it in the contracts.

Would it be true to say that an expat with a JCAB ATPL and 5 years experience with Air Japan on the 767 would probably not have trouble finding further work out of Japan if the contracts were not renewed anyway?

I guess there is always the NAC 747 freighters, Skymark, AirDo, JALways etc ??

[fire wall]

2XL, wouldn't have a clue, I am not the oracle. All that I have said in previous posts is easily obtained with a bit of research which should be done prior tio accepting any contract. It does seem however that a few of the respondants to this topic are wading in blind. A good business completes due diligence prior to signing what to them are major contracts. Why should we be any diferent?

[2XL]

firewall points taken, I shall let it rest. Thanks for the posts.

[Ultra]

2XL,

For what it's worth to you, I went for/missed out on my PARC AJX interview back in May.

Some interesting candidates applying from BAE146 (NJS), 737 (AN) to 777 (EK).
My jet flying ceased 10 yrs ago - probably explaining my failure.

I didn't think the package offered was unreasonable at all and at the end of the day, the choice is yours. I've worked for PARC before and they've always been fair and reasonble and in the contract world are highly regarded when compared to some.
Bear in mind, neither they, nor ANA wish to **** people off to the point that they're unhappy in their work. The cost of a 6 month ground school must be incentive enough for them to want to hang onto you for as long as possible.

I applied for an F/O position, due to the recency issue and during the interview -upgrades were heartily encouraged by the ANA interviewers - in the order of 3 years into the contract, as was contract extension past 5 years. This is obviously a way for ANA to improve bottom line, rather than paying high local salaries so they do have a vested interest in maintaining ex-pat staff morale, not just for the min. contract term.
This would obviously extend to the commuting/airfare issue.
In short, make up your own mind and look at the whole picture, not just from someone else's eyes.

Fourteen years ago I had the opportunity to take up a job with CX along with another good mate. He took the job and I was talked out of it. He's now a 74-400 skipper with a BN base and I'm not even close to it.

If you're in the least interested - go for it. Either way you look at it, it's serious money, a great aeroplane, a free endorsement and all with an Aussie base.

[eyes wide shut]

In short, make up your own mind and look at the whole picture, not just from someone else's eyes.....Couldn't agreee more Ultra.

This thread has offered a good variety of comments. At the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide. Over all a good package, but with any package always room for improvement. For those who are single or currently looking for work go for it...if you can get past that damn medical. :cool:

[Home Brew]

As these positions involve aircraft type training, has anyone asked about any “training bond”?? There is one (albeit a token bond) with the “Parc/Jex” contract, which most guys only found out about while reading their contract! Too late if you’ve just quit a good job!

Travel from Japan seems to be cheaper using local travel agents than normal staff ID. Fares to Oz return range from 75,000 yen to 120,000 yen depending on the time of year, and which travel agent. OK, these maybe economy tickets, but at least they are positive space during peak times – August, December and May. Look at these sites..
http://www.jp-tour.com/english-site/flihom.html
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/travel/e/index_e.htm

And just to check out Air Japan's home page for their schedules..
http://www.air-japan.co.jp/ http://www.kansai-airport.or.jp/index-e.html

The other question for HACS/PARC is: - what about a work visa for Japan?? As I imagine that immigration will begin to ask questions, after a couple of months as to your reasons for entering Japan continually, after your days off. If they find they find that you’ve been working from Japan, then the proverbial might hit the fan. However if Air Japan brings you in under some scheme where your name appears on the GD, surely then they would have to organise and pay for the ticket. Once you have a work visa, you must pay Japanese tax, which then avoids Oz tax (double tax agreement).

It sounds like an interesting job, which will improve when they get a few more destinations, but I’m going to sit tight for the moment until a few questions are answered.

[Kaptin M]

Gents, if you feel that you are being unreasonable in asking for CONFIRMED First or Business Class travel for your days off - at NO COST TO YOU - consider how CHEAP you are, when compared to a Japanese captain:

Multiply the USD10,500 by 2 or 3, to arrive at his salary;

Consider that a Japanese captain gets ALL of his uniform (shirt, trousers, jackets, tie) dry cleaned/laundered for FREE, all year;

In Japan, Japanese crew are transported TO and FROM work by limousine taxi, regardless of the length of duty (ie. day return, or multi-day trip);

Japanese crew, and Japanese in general, get 3 days "Summer Vacation" every year, and a massive 42 days cumulative sick leave;

ALL Japanese captains - regardless of length of time on type - are automatically Training captains once following check out, and receive a handsome "training allowance".

These are just a few of the little known perks that YOU will NOT receive!

Now ask yourself, and PARC/HACS, "Considering how cheap I am, WHY won't you provide me, foc, with positive space, First/Business Class travel to allow me to spend my days off at home?"

As a further piece of "advice" for F/O's - if you don't have the promise of an upgrade IN WRITING, forget it - it ain't gunna happen!!, regardless of the insinuations/verbal assurances!

[Kaptin M]

Gents, if you feel that you are being unreasonable in asking for CONFIRMED First or Business Class travel for your days off - at NO COST TO YOU - consider how CHEAP you are, when compared to a Japanese captain:

Multiply the USD10,500 by 2 or 3, to arrive at his salary;

Consider that a Japanese captain gets ALL of his uniform (shirt, trousers, jackets, tie) dry cleaned/laundered for FREE, all year;

In Japan, Japanese crew are transported TO and FROM work by limousine taxi, regardless of the length of duty (ie. day return, or multi-day trip);

Japanese crew, and Japanese in general, get 3 days "Summer Vacation" every year, and a massive 42 days cumulative sick leave;

ALL Japanese captains - regardless of length of time on type - are automatically Training captains once following check out, and receive a handsome "training allowance".

These are just a few of the little known perks that YOU will NOT receive!

Now ask yourself, and PARC/HACS, "Considering how cheap I am, WHY won't you provide me, foc, with positive space, First/Business Class travel to allow me to spend my days off at home?"

As a further piece of "advice" for F/O's - if you don't have the promise of an upgrade IN WRITING, forget it - it ain't gunna happen!!, regardless of the insinuations/verbal assurances!

[ditchy]

Interesting post Firewall, confirms all my suspicions and the rumours that I'd heard. I also have to agree with Kaptin M's summation of this contract. It's the beginning of a new drive to see how little we'll work for and also I think a symptom of there being several crewing agencies dealing with Air Japan and all cutting each other's throats to get the cheapest crew possible. Compared to Skymark this is a second rate contract and if they get the crew they want the next one will be even less. I might have considered it with decent travel arrangements, but I can see this being expensive and unworkable.

[Ultra]

Kaptin M,

I just have to reply after your fairly one-eyed view of the big picture in the name, I presume, of maintaining some employment standard among the global ex-pat community. I guess in relation to this, my shoe is now firmly on your foot.

To all other readers: please forgive me for straying off track a little, but I promise, in conclusion - you may find the paradox amazing....

Approx. 18 months ago, I was beating my chest at how some of your friends, Kaptin, namely Whiskery et al, could leave their well heeled overseas positions, tax-free allowances, (obviously 1st class travel included, if I am to derive any indication from the above reply), and return to Australia, accepting well below industry conditions to fly for the unscrupulous, yet misguidedly, well-regarded owner of Impulse Airlines. I understand that the thought of accompanying them, crossed your mind once or twice as well. These same people have now excelled to monumental heights with a 10 year contract flying for QF, for no other reason but sheer good luck. In doing so, they overtook both their domestic and regional counterparts for positions to which they had absolutely no entitlement. Don't you think they caused a degredation to pre-existing conditions and worse, reduced promotional opportunity for those full-time employees within QF prior, in a similar fashion to what you are now saying any AJX prospect would do?

When I applied for the AJX postion, I applied as a regional QF Capt on $72K gross and operating ~820 stick hrs/annum. The reason for my application was to mostly counteract the predicament I then found myself in, namely dashed hopes for promotion to a larger type/better income/lifestyle, with my employer, as a direct result of your colleagues' equally "selfish" actions.

Please enlighten me as to how you believe the AJX contract is a poor comparison?
"Worth crawling over broken glass for", was the concept that flooded my mind.

I think you need to come out of the forest you've lived in for a while and look at what some of your exceptionally less fortunate cousins are currently struggling through on a daily basis, often with no choice in the matter....

Again, if anyone's in the least bit interested, show some fortitude and go for it.

I can't believe all the negatives about Visa's, travel and all that other crap some of you are coming out with. For goodness sake! WHO'S TAKING THE RISK, regarding your entry/exit rights into Japan? You or AJX/PARC !!
Do you honestly think they'd waste their time or money if they couldn't take care of the smallest detail of getting you to/from work! Honestly, some of you blokes wouldn't work in an iron lung.

Again, why would they spend time/money on poltical/industrial representations to get through an abundance of initial obstacles, then the 6 month ground school, the ever-difficult medical process, a free 767 endorsement, 5 year contract etc., just to **** you off, because you couldn't get to/from home for 8 days/month? If the "lousy" conditions are that "good" for ANA, don't you think they'd be doing everything in their power to hang onto you for as long as possible?

Do the maths and just think about it !
Please don't disservice yourselves by turning it into a pre-employment industrial stand-off, in the hope of contract betterment, as in the SQ scenario, this is far from the same thing.
Just ask "Fatty Falcons", what he'd be offering, had he won the contract!

It's worth travelling in economy to see family/Aus once a month, don't you think?

Just ask Kaptin M, he knows all about home-sickness I'm sure.

[eyes wide shut]

We'll I am not Japanese so no need to compare, but wouldn't mind earning 7700/10500, even if I had to fly economy. Then again on that package c/w the travel allowance you could afford Business Class. Nah... put me in Economy I'll sleep all the way.
If one was to compare this package with others around the world it would be right up there.
One may not recieve the known perks, but compare this with say AirNZ. Join at 20 S/o for 8 years or so, Command when your about to retire on a command salary of what a F/O will recieve with Air Japan.

[Kaptin M]

Ultra, I'll try to reply to your posting aith what I consider a reasoned response, and in GOOD FAITH - whether (or not) you accept it, is your decision. It is however, unforunate that you feel some bitterness towards Whiskery (who, btw, has never flown for Impulse)and me, from your quip:
Approx. 18 months ago, I was beating my chest at how some of your friends, Kaptin, namely Whiskery et al, could leave their well heeled overseas positions, tax-free allowances, (obviously 1st class travel included......These same people have now excelled to monumental heights with a 10 year contract flying for QF, for no other reason but sheer good luck. In doing so, they overtook both their domestic and regional counterparts for positions to which they had absolutely no entitlement. Don't you think they caused a degredation to pre-existing conditions and worse, reduced promotional opportunity for those full-time employees within QF prior, in a similar fashion to what you are now saying any AJX prospect would do?

When I applied for the AJX postion,........as a direct result of your colleagues' equally "selfish" actions.

As an aside to the Air Japan contract, the pilots and other employees who joined Impulse were totally UNAWARE, as were YOU, and all QANTAS and Impulse workers of the impending takeover.

Moving back to Air Japan. This is a NEW contract, and during ANY new contract there will be areas that need to be "ironed out" before the final draught is reached. I am suggesting that you compare APPLES WITH APPLES - that you, Ultra are earning only $72,000 as a regional captain in Australia, bears NO consideration when discussing a 767 pilot working for a Japanese airline out of Japan. Compare what other expats in Japan are earning and have a look at their accomodation and travel entitlements. Then, as I have indicated in my previous post, compare THEIR (by your "crawling over broken glass" analogy) "well-heeled" definition with that received by Japanese pilots, and try to realize that the FEW issues I have raised are of miniscule cost to ANA, when viewed in the overall picture!

I think you need to come out of the forest you've lived in for a while and look at what some of your exceptionally less fortunate cousins are currently struggling through on a daily basis, often with no choice in the matter....
To a pilot living and working in Sri Lanka, Nigeria, or Russia, YOUR meagre $72,000 salary would no doubt draw similar comment from him....apples with apples!


I can't believe all the negatives about Visa's, travel and all that other crap some of you are coming out with. For goodness sake! WHO'S TAKING THE RISK, regarding your entry/exit rights into Japan? You or AJX/PARC !!

I'm reasonably certain there WON'T be any problems with work visas, however it is naivete in the extreme to ask "WHO'S TAKING THE RISK?" - be under NO misapprehension, the PILOT is the one who will carry the can if anything backfires or goes wrong, eg. wrt tax, exit/entry visas. You are only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise - ask the PARC employed Japan-based, JEX pilots what they have been told (by PARC) when the question of National Health Insurance responsibility was raised - in SPITE of what their contract states!

Do you honestly think they'd waste their time or money if they couldn't take care of the smallest detail of getting you to/from work!

YES!! They care ONLY about their commission, once you are locked in!

Again, why would they spend time/money on poltical/industrial representations to get through an abundance of initial obstacles, then the 6 month ground school, the ever-difficult medical process, a free 767 endorsement, 5 year contract etc., just to **** you off, because you couldn't get to/from home for 8 days/month? If the "lousy" conditions are that "good" for ANA, don't you think they'd be doing everything in their power to hang onto you for as long as possible?
They will go to "all that trouble", because of the monthly commission (scalping fee) that the contractor pays them - it will be a minimum of USD1,500 per pilot, per month, for doing NOTHING, once you are signed up and "in the system".

Do the maths and just think about it !
Please don't disservice yourselves by turning it into a pre-employment industrial stand-off, in the hope of contract betterment, as in the SQ scenario, this is far from the same thing........
It's worth travelling in economy to see family/Aus once a month, don't you think

Unfortunately Ultra, you have been blinded by the USD10,500 for Captains and USD7,000 for F/O's, when compared with your USD3,180 (AUD6,000)! The point is, under the CURRENT contract, there is no GUARANTEE that you WILL be able to get home once a month to see your family, unless you are willing to buy a FULL FARE ticket, and even then there will be several months of the year that EY will be fully booked.
Japanese enjoy travelling - check out the Gold Coast and ask yourself HOW they got there.
They didn't drive or swim!

[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]

[2XL]

People, excellent dialogue which is the essence of PPRUNE. Our various opinions draw new points to the table.

Some people have mentioned Skymark, but what is their backing and future viability ? I would consider an ANA backed airline to be a better bet surely ?

I have spoken to numerous travel agents now re the travel arrangements. Business class flights from Sydney to Osaka/Tokyo return will be around AUD$4500 per trip. Economy will be around AUD$1500-1850 depending on the season. Now these were quoted as QF fares, but it was stressed that the flights can be quite full. Business class is generally full they told me.

I have asked this question earlier, but would appreciate further comments. What happens at the end of the 5 years ? Will Air Japan continue with expats or move to Japanese nationals who are far more expensive ? Has anyone asked the question about contract renewal yet ?

Finally to drag up another old post, what do you all consider the tax situation then ? Will everyone be liable for full Australian/NZ tax.

Email me at [email protected] if you would rather.

[ditchy]

Ultra,

Once again I must agree with Kaptin M. I'm not sure you understand the way the crewing agencies work.Once they have you signed up, they sit there accumulating large amounts of cash for virtually nothing. There are now lots of crewing agencies popping up for the obvious reason that it's all easy money.

All they have to do to get the contracts and/or approval from the airline concerned is to offer them the best deal i.e. get pilots for cheapest rate which means in turn they offer pilots less to ensure their cut is intact. I believe this was the case recently with Vietnam Airlines, though others could tell you more about that.

By the time the bills are paid "en locale", a firm seat has been bought, taxes paid, there will not be as much left as you might think.

For many expat/offshore pilots it is not the perks or taxfree or pay that are concerns, but simply that due to age or other things ,there are no places in home countries for them. There is no choice but to remain offshore and that is why you will always see healthy discussion over forums such as this to advise each other of contracts, their pitfalls, or in this case, declining conditions offered by the crewing agencies.

Looking at this contract on its own from the point of view of an Australian resident,you may think it's very good. The people already in the offshore market are looking at this contract in comparison to other offshore contracts and we are seeing a decline in the conditions, especially in the area of time with families. The point has already been made that Air Japan will not want to see turnover of crews once they have selected who they want, but they may not be aware of the promises being made on their behalf by Parc,HAS etc about promotions and home travel. There will be no quicker way to ensure unhappy crew than to have them spending precious days off in a Tokyo hotel because no space was available to them to get home. That is why I think the crewing companies are telling Air Japan one thing, the applicants another, hoping it will all work out and they can sit in the middle for years to come on commission.

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: ditchy ]

[2XL]

Re promotion from FO to Cpt; I spoke to someone today who suggested that the expat contract pilots who are flying the 747's for ANA are being upgraded to command. They signed FO contract's with a verbal comment re upgrades, and they are happening. Perhaps someone who is on the 747's may wish to comment on this ?

Re the travel, if Air Japan promise via contract a minimum of 8 consecutive days off each month in Australia surely you can presume this to be the case. If the travel arrangements (ID50's etc) are not working surely the Company would want changes. Whilst you need to be very careful of the contracts , both you AND they have responsibiliy surely ? Air Japan may decide to start your roster with you flying Brisbane to Osaka, and end your roster with Tokyo to Sydney like Korean etc - now there is a thought.

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: 2XL ]

[Ultra]

Kaptin M, Ditchy,

Thank you for your reasoned responses and I will reply further.

Ditchy, to the contrary, I do understand the way crewing companies work and yes you are right, they're popping up everywhere.
As with many organisations however, only the shrewd will survive and I'd suggest PARC is among the premium in world players. They were similarly qualified in 1990 when I last worked for them and I'm led to believe that their standards haven't slipped too much recently from general industry feedback.

While contract companies have the option to take the money and run once you're entrapped by the piece of paper, they are still contract bound to be the service providers.

If degraded conditions led to a majority of disgruntled, disillusioned individuals, presenting for work every day, wouldn't you expect AJX, in this case, to make issue with PARC?. Ergo, it's in PARC's own interest to ensure some level of contract agreement continuity for their own long term interests.
Naive on my part? I think not.

The travel allowance offered was c. US 1100/month, ie. enough to buy an economy full-fare air ticket. I guess an apology's warranted if you'd hoped to capitalise further on some saving there. I suppose PARC did their sums perfectly.

I can't believe that a little careful planning wouldn't ensure seat availabilty on any one of a number of airlines servicing Aust.

Finally, Kaptin, I don't like to see others stray off the subject in these pages and would certainly not like to be accused of same. My reference to Impulse was to draw the parallel of outsiders infiltrating an established system to the detriment of the current incumbents, similar to what the "desperados" are now perceived as being guilty of in the AJX example. I see no difference here.
Their falling on their feet with QF, of course, had no relevance and I apologise for venting my spleen.
I beg to differ and am now thoroughly confused by your refutation of Whiskery's association.
From the number of interchanges I've had with him on the topic, he leaves no doubt of my claim.

2XL, Draw the 2 columns on your notepad and make your entries honestly with your head firmly screwed in place.
All the very best with your decision...Ultra.

I don't suppose I'll have the last word, but it's really all I have spare time for at the moment.

Best regards Kaptin, Ditchy...

[2XL]

Could someone clarify the Ozzie tax situation please. Various accountants have different views so what do you think ;

If you spend 200+ days a year working out of Australia you would not be liable for Australian tax ?

What are the tax rates in Japan ?

[EPIRB]

In reference to the medical, does anyone know what blikes are failing on? How strict are they on colour vision?

[Home Brew]

EPIRB – I understand from one of the agents, that Air Japan has set a medical benchmark, 50% above the JCAB required standard – thus the high failure rate – didn’t know they were looking for Olympic athletes. I have heard the medical described as a 2-day ordeal, with probes being stuck in orifices, not known to have previously existed!!

As for the travel, it looks like buying a ticket is cheaper from an agent in Japan than in OZ, as the majority of tourists originate in Japan. It also looks like a discount ticket is better value, than a supposedly ID 50 “positive space”, as you get frequent flyer points as well!!

2XL, remember this is a contract, and what you sign is what you get! What is not stated/omitted in the contract, don’t even try and suggest that it should be there. Always keep a hard copy of what the agents promise, and compare it to the contract when you get it. If its not included – don’t sign it. If F/O upgrade is not listed in the contract, despite what promises are made by agents/airline, don’t expect an upgrade. If you sign the contract as an F/O, expect to be an F/O for 5 years, and be happy with that, and expect no more. If you get an upgrade later, you have had a big win!!

The fact that Parc & HACS keep advertising for this contract, suggests that deal is not good enough to attract the numbers that they need. And they agents will be trying to maximise their profits. As I understand, the Jex/Parc commuters are getting US$9K WITH TAX PAID, a tiny apartment provided, and positive business class travel each month, just for flying a light twin – 737!! So this Air Japan contract falls short in comparison, and they will have to lift the deal to get more drivers, in my opinion.

[eyes wide shut]

I think you will find that HACS and PARC are continuing to look for pilots for 2 reasons
1. There are three courses scheduled for early next year = 24 pilots and;

2. Look at the attrition rate with not only the medical at 50% or more,but the failure rate of the interview and sim evaluation. Also with HACS they have a screening interview as well.

The medical actually consists of visiting 8 specialists over 2 days to a standard of not less than that of a NASA Space shuttle astronaut.

2XL...I have heard that they are talking about upgrades even though not in black in white. Not to bad though if you compare with say an AirNZ S/O, in the high chair for 5-8 years before even getting to the wheel.
What you get is what you get in the contracting world. If you want to travel Business class to and from work then don't take this job. The decision is up to the individual. If you are looking for a quick command it may or may not happen, that is a chance you will have to take. Just try and get past that medical, things might be decided for you :cool:

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: eyes wide shut ]

[Kaptin M]

The message coming through wrt the Air Japan contract,is that it ie WELL BELOW the present market standard, in terms of income - remember that the money quoted is BEFORE tax, and YOU are responsible for making the income tax payments to the government you atr LEGALLY REQUIRED to pay. Avoid/evade this at YOUR risk!

The travel is below the current market level currently given to ALL foreign pilots employed in Japan, be they Skymark, Air Do, JAL Express, etc.

These would be two of the major sticking points that make this a second rate contract. If you are REALLY interested in taking a slot (and can get through the medical), then FORCE PARC/HACS to improve the conditions to bring them up to the same level as the other pilots - unless you consider yourself a lesser pilot!

[EPIRB]

Has anyone out there done the medical or know someone who has and if so, what actually happens?

[eyes wide shut]

EPIRB...

The Medical
1. Stress ECG...15 min walk/jog
2. EEG...45 mins & 350 pages of brain waves
3. Chest X-Ray...Standard
4. Blood Test&Urine...3-4 Tubes HIV to Drugs
5. Eye Test...3 examinations
6. Visit the Shrink...Don't tell lies
7. ENT...Standard
8. The doc's examination...interseting...so I am told

All the above done over two days in Sydney

Get past that lot and you will be on the way to the moon. :cool:

[2XL]

For those who had wished for an improved package offer I would have said this will not happen. However, small signs of change may be in the wind.

Notice the commuting allowance in the latest HACS ad in The Australian. The USD$1000 has been increased to USD$1400. I note that PARC has not increased their offer.

Talking to a friend of a friend, some of the guys under training in Japan have been finding it difficult and expensive to get their families up to Tokyo for a visit as per the contract. Perhaps this may lead to an improved offer ?

I am still searching for tax information. Can anyone put me in touch with a reputable and experienced advisor/accountant in Australia. Email me if you prefer.

[email protected]

[vertical speed]

I see most of the discussion has involved travel to and from Australia. Had anyone out there checked the options available for Kiwis? (To Christchurch) Parc have a screening arranged in AKL later this year so there may be a few from Kiwiland interested.

[Prong Wallop]

There have been quite a few queries regarding the tax arrangements for contact pilots.
Very briefly my understanding of the situation is that under self deeming the tax office may conduct an audit on you personally at any time to check the accuracy of your accounts. This audit is conducted with reference to your particular set of circumstances and is not necessarily formula driven. In other words just because you self deem yourself as non resident for tax purposes on the hearsay of others does not necessarily make it so.
Some things to note before declaring yourself non resident for tax purposes are,
1. Your overall situation will be taken into account. Does your family reside in Australia? Do you maintain a house (residence) in Australia? Do you maintain bank accounts, drivers licences etc?
2. Do you intend to return to Australia? Do you maintain a superannuation account? If your contract is for a fixed period with no clause for renewal then you may be considered as only temporarily non resident and liable for tax. Where is your salary deposited? Is there a reciprocal tax agreement with Japan?
3. Length of time outside the country by itself is irrelevant for ascertaining non residency. It is only a guide to tax liability after deeming for non residency, ie. just because you may spend 183 days outside the country doesn't make you non resident.
4. Finally just because you deem yourself non resident doesn't mean the tax department agrees with you. If you do this and then return to the country say in one or three years and the tax department does an audit you may well find yourself with a tax bill and penalties.

[eyes wide shut]

2XL...The HACS Travel allowance has always been USD$1400 which is made up of 1000 for travel and 400 for accomadation. Parc offers the same amount but sets it out as 1000 and 400 not a total package of 1400 like Hacs.
Does that make sense? In other words the same.
For those who are unsure of what the accomadation allowance covers...it pays for your time in Japan on unassigned days. While you are there on a day on, you don't pay for accomadation.
Regarding visiting families...I have heard quite the opposite, no problems getting the families up there, just forget about the study.
Conflicting stories there 2XL, but you will always get that in this game.
:cool: :cool: :cool:

[EPIRB]

eyes wide shut, have you done the medical? If so, did they run a color vision test on you? Any ideas on their view on (excess) body fat?

[2XL]

EWS cheers re the update. Perhaps it was that the pilots were having to pay a little more for the tickets to get their families up to Japan for a visit ? I guess they were at short notice where as the Air Japan pilots could attempt to plan/buy tickets in advance and try for a better fare ? Air Japan/PARC is paying for the family tickets anyway, simply an observation of sorts.

I see what you mean re the USD$1400 !

How do you interpret the allowances ? If you do not actually stay away from base, you get no allowance pay for your flying day ? Or you get the minimum allowance pay anyway ?

Further to EPIRB's question is there a BMI level that candidates should be working towards?

[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: 2XL ]

[Kaptin M]

EPIRB, yes there is a color vision test using the Ishihara (I mean who ELSE would the Japanese use!!) colour test reading tne numbers from a book, as well as the jet of air shot into the open eye, some co-ordination tests, near and far vision, reading small print from a book (circles with breaks in varying positions) in a dark room, and a few others.
eyes wide shut also forgot to mention the usual hearing (audiometric) test, done in a soundproof cabinet.
Blood tests (fasting) check EVERYTHING in addition to HIV/AIDS, drugs, alcohol, cholestrol, red and white blood cell count, liver function, sugar, etc, etc.
BMI is calculated at the initial, and every renewal. At the initial check, I would GUESS (and I repeat only GUESS) that the max allowance over optimum BMI would be no more than 15%.
Chest X-rays are an annual event - nothing like added doses of unneeded radiation!!
Oh yes, the initial also includes a grip test.

If you can think of any other tests NOT mentioned here, then they probably ARE included - it's just that you do so bloody many, you forget!!

And the medical's the EASY part!

Still reckon they're paying enough?? :(

Remember one last thing - you're going to be LOCKED in to this contract for 5 YEARS, and while you are employed by one of the Japanese airlines, none of the others will look at you (no poaching, by mutual agreement) until you have completed your current contract, AND left their employ... a period of 3 months has been quoted. So having that JCAB licence won't get you a shoe-in anywhere else in Japan, if you quit early.

[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]

[eyes wide shut]

EPIRB...Yes they do conduct a colour vision test. From what I have heard they do like you to fall into their Height/Weight range. I am not sure if they look at BMI specifically.
As Kaptin M said, the blood test basically covers everything, didn't have the time to write them all.
Would'nt it be a good idea to go for a blood test and get the works to see if anything was out of the norm, and try and put it right!!! Say cholesteral for example.

2XL...re your allowance question...sorry I dont understand? :cool:

[2XL]

EWS - Re allowances I refer to the Per Diem (Operations) Allowances. It refers to Staying hours so I presume this means that you are away from base. My question then is if you operated say Osaka-Korea-Osaka would you receive any "allowances" ??

[EPIRB]

Thanks guys. Does anyone know if failing the colour vision test is a failure of the medical?

[eyes wide shut]

EPRIB...Looking at how strict the medical is, I would say that colour blindness would be a fail. Talk to Parc or HACS.

2XL...A staying allowance would be like an overnight allowance. It would have to be a fixed amount based upon which country the overnight was in, or, some airlines will offer a hourly rate, or, a block amount,eg
X$'s for 6hrs, X$'s for 12hrs and so on.
If you operated Osaka-Korea-Osaka and finish you are not overnighting.
Per diem's (daily allowance)however are an amount which one might recieve just to go to work. I guess you could get a per diem and an overnight allowance,but that would be decribed in their contract. :cool:

[2XL]

For those who are thinking that 8 days (min) at home each month with the family is a bit rough consider the following.

I had a frank conversation with one of my Qantas 747 chums today. It would appear that these long-haul boys only get about 8 days at home each month anyway.

So, perhaps this Air Japan commute represents a reasonable opportunity at "quality" time at home ?

[madcat666]

2XL,

Mate 8 days at home a month is way below the norm. My current contract states that I must get a min of 8 days at home a month, but on average it is somewhere between 12 and 16.
Commuting might suit you, but if you want a new job, and living in Oz is not a priority, there are better deals around than this one at the moment. Have you thought of EK or KA? Both are giving quick commands, fly new equipment, and are expanding. These companies will also offer you a lot more face time with family if you have one.
This is obviously a very personal decision, as everyone has different needs and wants, but what you must realise is that there are other options out there, and that you need not lock yourself away for 5yrs with 8 days off at home a month if you are not really sure its your cup of tea. For me the deal would have to be something more like month on, month off before I could justify it.
I 'd be very interested to find a Qantas pilot that worked that hard, as none of the ones I know do (maybe with the exception of the 767 guys who get stuck with the domestic stuff).
I am sure that someting will work out for you, good luck.

Madcat.

[eyes wide shut]

As I guess most of you know, 8 days off gaurnteed consec. is a minimum, with 10 days off minimum per month. Even though it is not in black and white I believe they are trying to achieve more days off in a row. This may or may not happen. If it did that would be a bonus. It will take a while for things to settle in with a new Airline. If the conditions of this contract suit the individual then go for it, if not, sure look around. Each contract has its good and bad points. Swings and Roundabouts!!!
:cool:

[2XL]

Madcat and EWS I agree with both of you. As with the QF drivers I share the view that 8 days consecutive per month in OZ will be the minimum. The contract is in very early stages, and they have BIG plans. Who knows there might even be BIGGER a/c on the horizon as well.(777, 747).

As the optimist I take the view that Air Japan will do its utmost to look after those who are committed. Word from Tokyo suggests that many of the pilots have never been treated so well. Respect is the word I hear.

The ANC 747 freight guys are getting far more time at home than they anticipated when signing their contracts. The airlines are getting skillful, cost effective crews who are getting the hours in the sky in reasonably quick time. As a result the airline can afford to give them reasonable time at home - win, win situation really.

[next in line]

Chaps,

Anyone know anything about the Rishworth B737 400 Captains required for a new contract in 'Southern Japan'? Airline, base and USD would be a good start!

Thanks,
NIL

[IronManNDFW]

I have read this board over the past few weeks.

I have applied for this job with PARC.

PHNL based. The money is not that great compared to the Majors here, but then they are not hiring.

Wife & I have a condo in Honolulu about 10 min from PHNL.

What do you see as a problem (other than money) for a "Yank"?

All info will be helpful, as I'd like to go into this with open eyes.

DO you have any intel on beter gigs?

[Devil]

I rarely post on this forum but feel the necessity to comment. I have been informed by a reliable source that successful applicants will be required to arrive in Kansai on a tourist visa to then operate the next day on the Gen Dec. This is being done by **** so as to negate the requirement for a work visa which in turn saves them having to pay the payroll tax under Japanese law. This ploy has been used before and it is easily caught on by any half decent immigration system, of which the Japanese is state of the art. You can bet your last pair of jocks that the immigration and taxation computers are cross referenced so where does that leave you? Check the wording of the contract- reads something akin to "any tax will be the sole concern of the employee". So when the Japanese authorities meet you at immigration in Kansai after you have spent a wonderful 8 days at home, what questions do you think will be running through your head?How about the issue of avoidance of Japanese tax? Is it against the law in Japan? What do you think? Guess who is going to wash their hands of you - go back to the fine print in the contract.

Make you stop and think - or do you need more?

Commuting arrangements ( ie read lack there of) are a joke, there is no other way to describe such other than has been adequately explained in previous posts.

Accomodation arrangements are a joke, and you will be spending 22 days of every month in a box.

Money is good, but for what? Is this how you want to live in a standard hotel room ( usually 25-28 sq mtrs in Japan)with your laundry hanging from the lamp shades to dry because you sure as hell won't want to be paying $28 for every shirt laundered.

I know the allure of a big a/c has a hypnotic effect - helps you to gloss over the little imperfections in the contract like the 12 month notice requirement should you decide to leave (MINUS your 500/month that they have taken from your stash) so you now have a JAA ATPL but no one wants to hire you because you have not honoured your 5 year term with your previous employer.Japanese are funny like that. Even if you do your 5 years there are few jobs for non Japanese JAA ATPL holders. Don't beleive me then ask the 5 guys who were just let go by Skymark about 4 months ago, none of them are working in Japan - 767 type rated, route endorsed, Jap medical, ATPL etc all in the bag. Guess it isn't as sort after commodity that all say it is.

Let's not forget the fate of WAC. Does history repeat?

Compare it to the Skymark contract. Raise any questions?

Finally, it is only a 767 - a great truck but old and slowly getting antiquated and, more importantly, difficult to transition from to newer types - just check the lack of ads for type qualified 767 guys.

I know what I am talking about. I am a 767 Captain on his 11th year of contracts and this one has worms.

Good luck !

[2XL]

Devil you raise some interesting points. Could you email me at [email protected]

The point re Skymark is that while the cash appeared better, they are releasing pilots already so perhaps reward can be relative to security ? We shall see in time I guess.

[A-V-8R]

I might be all wet in this post, but I do not think you can *legally* (At least on my carrier) use your interline benefits to buy a pass on another airlne to go to work.....Sure, it's done all the time but....

Here at my airline, the rules for interline travel say you cannot use SpaceA/Reduce rate tickets for "Business" purposes....only for pleasure travel. Nor can you posess a Pass and a Fare (paid) for the same flight.

Better to get travel arrangements in writing. Better to get the onus on getting you to work on your employer, or your contract might be terminated for non-performance, I.E. missing a trip.

[Whoaaa]

EPIRB,

I've just gone through pre-employment medical in Los Angeles for JAZ. IASCO, PARC and HACS all use the same and only doctor approved by JCAB, Dr. Bill Brath, at Centinel Medical Center. Most of it is pretty much what was mentioned earlier in another post. You must also complete 567 question psych test (MMPI-2) during the course of your examination. They are very thorough in their examinations, it is NASA physicals. I recommend getting a blood test a few weeks prior to the JCAB medical and work on any items that are too high or too low. Lose weight if you must but be real careful not to do it too fast, it'll screw up the blood results. If you are overweight (BMI index) go on an easy diet, eat normally but eat less, avoid the no starch no carbo diet that will screw up the blood results also. Start running on tread mill at least 3 - 4 times a week if you don't exercise regularly (like me). Be honest with the shrink (I told him I smoked pot in college), he will ask you for some background info on yourself, routine stuff. Be relax and normal and try not to out guess him (remember he has a degree on the subject). Don't be defensive. If you prepare yourself for the exam, it should be no problem. The only examination that's pretty hard to beat even if you're healthy is the EEG (brainwave test). I mean, how do you practice for that?

Anyways, if you've passed the interview and the sim check then why not prepare youself for the medical also it's the last step in the whole process. Within a week, Centinel will send you a result in the mail and your agency (this case, IASCO) will call you between 2 to 4 weeks afterwards with the results. I passed. If you have nothing else to do then give it a shot. Hey, the pay ain't all that bad. :cool:

[CFIT]

Whooooaaaaaa. Are you coming to Tokyo for the Sep 27 JAZ B-747 class? If so, drop me a line. Let's go chase some Japanese skirts.

[Whoaaa]

CFIT, according to IASCO, my class date is February 2002. It seems as though the September class has already been filled. The Feb 02 date is still tentative and now the horrific events in the US!? I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck. :D

[ship]

Hi,Whoaaa
Congrats your class.
Are they still hiring to fill out the Feb02 class?
And aren't they planning lay off?

Thaks

[Whoaaa]

I don't think IASCO is hiring anymore. I actually interviewed in June and the job offer is no longer posted on their web site. Couldn't really tell you whether or not there's going to be any lay offs, I'm not even there yet. From what I heard, they (JAL) are doing well profit wise and usually fair quite well during global crisis (Gulf War). What's going on now is anyone's guess. Originally, JALways planned to have at least two 747 classes next year, one in Feb and another a few months afterwards. Things may change after the last week events. Like CFIT said there are already six guys slotted for the Feb class (including me) so there's a slot for two more (8 per class) and 8 more for the second class. My advice is to check there web site and send in your application. :)

[ship]

Thank you, Whoaaa
I will check it out! :D

[CFIT]

Well, looks like life still goes on as (almost) normal at JALways. Latest news indicates no sign of any furlough for the time being. Even with reduction in pax load due to the current situation, they are still short of pilots. Heard that 12% of pax have cancelled their travel plan. However, with flights to Hawaii usually full, that still leaves you a 88% load factor which is still good. Whether this is true, I'd appreciate any inside news from anyone. Whoaaa, I hope your Feb'02 is till on, a good buddy of mine, "Flame Out" is supposed to be in that class too. For the moment, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the Japanese public stay away from flying only in the short run. When things eventually pick up, you don't want to be short of pilots. ;)

[ship]

I heard the bad news about JAL group.
They will cut 600 jobs by end of next march.
Did JALWAYS cancel or suspend the training?
And how many pilots will be laid off?
Any information will be appreciated.

[2XL]

Air Japan continues to interview Australian and NZ resident pilots. When and if they ever get offered a job in Japan still remains to be seen. Interesting times ahead.

[CFIT]

Well, "Ship", eventhough JAL/JALWAYS is expecting a big lost this year, life still goes on as normal, at least for the pilots. I did not hear anything about the 600 employees layoff, where did you get this news? Latest and confirmed news as of today in Japan for JALWAYS, no pilot layoff. Those in training right now will continue on as normal, upgrade program for the First Officers will not be changed. Future hiring for the February 2002 class is yet to be confirmed, we should hear about the next hiring within the next few days. The Japan Airlines group have tons of money, and there has never been any pilot layoff in its entire history, even the tough time back during the Gulf War. I happy to be employed during the current situation and glad to see the pay check rolling on time. :)

[ship]

Thank you CFIT.
I read the Japanese News yesterday. http://www.asahi.com/business/reuters/K2001101202156.html
This says total 4800 employees will be laid off.
I also hope I hear good hiring news within the next few days.

:rolleyes:

[Flame Out]

Perhaps I'm being to optimistic since my name is also in the hat for the Feb class and please correct me if I'm wrong but Japan Airlines and JALways are two seperate entities. In the past few years JALways is the more profitable of the two and has been for sometimes. :confused:

[ship]

CFIT and the other JALWAYS poolers,
Did you hear good news about the class?

[CFIT]

Which good news are you talking about????? :confused:

[ship]

About Feb02 class.

[Home Brew]

How will the Air Japan guys get home back to Oz now, with the announcement that "All Nippon" are dropping their flights to OZ? With the fall of AN, there are no "Star Alliance" flights direct to Oz!!So it will be interesting to see what the agents (Parc etc.) do about this..

[magelan]

So what´s the news on Jalways. Still going along as planned in 2002? And does anybody know if HACS gives out six-month-contracts ?
Aloha,
mags

[CFIT]

Latest rumour from JALWAYS is that the Feb'02 class has been 99.99% approved after a meeting between JALWAYS management and IASCO/HACS. Moreover, looks like they are planning to hire a total of 2 B747 F/O classes, 1 B747 FE class, 1 DC-10 F/O class, and 1 DC-10 FE class for 2002. This is the pre-Sep. 11 original plan which HAS NOT been canceled yet. So, thing are still looking fairly good here in term of hiring pilots even with JAL Group massive $342 million total netlost expected for this fiscal year. Also, I heard that, as of next year, Air Japan will start hiring pilots who are not a permanent resident or a citizen of the U.S., canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Could anyone confirm this rumour? Lastly, the guys at HACS told me that there's no 6 months contract, just the usual 3 year. ;)

[ship]

Thats a good news!!!
Thanks, CFIT !

[Flame Out]

Heard from a friend the other day that Air Japan project has been scraped (at least the one that went through PARC Aviation) after the Sept. 11 attack. Can anyone confirm this?

[JuniorPilot]

Hi there people,
I would like to know if i could enter Air japan as a second officer?
Thank you

[ship]

CFIT,
Where did you hear about that rumor?
I do not hear any anouncement yet.

Thanks

[CFIT]

Could you be more specific which rumour are you talking about, JALWAYS or Air Japan? :confused:

[ship]

Sorry about that, CFIT.
I would like to know about the rumor of JALWAYS 2002 class.

[CFIT]

Unfortunately, I can't name my sources here. However, I can tell you that it's very credible, and as of today, I have not heard any change in the hiring plan yet. If there were to be any freeze in future hiring, which can happen any time, it seems highly unlikely that it will effect the Feb'02 class because they already got the guys in the slot who are ready to start any time. The reason they could not start the class sooner is not because of the down turn in business, but because they do not have enough instructors. Anyway, I'm just praying that nothing will change. What is certain in the airline business is UNCERTAINTY. ;)

[Flame Out]

Junior, either the left seat or the right seat, no back seat. Sorry. But I don't think it matters anymore since rumour has it that the whole project has been shelved indefinitely (see my previous reply). Good luck. Try Cathay, they are always looking for a seat warmer. :D

[CAPT146]

Regards AJX, I'm off to do my medical for them in SYD next week so I doubt that they would spend $2500 on me if the whole thing has been shelved.

[ship]

From the latest Japanese news, JAL Group decided to acquire JAS (Japan Air System).
They are still growing.

[Flame Out]

Capt146, thanks for the info. That answers my question. Medical in SYD eh? Odd, I thought all pilot candidates destined for the Japanese carrier get their medical in LAX, including PARC. From what I heard, the guy in LAX is the only one approved by JCAB to do a "full" pre-employment medical outside of Japan. Anyway, good luck to you. You gonna need it then you'll be ready for the next moon orbit. :D

[CAPT146]

Flameout, if you are talking about the Nth American recruiting, then yes it has been put off for the time being. But the Oz/NZ recruiting is continueing as planned. Dr English is the approved man in SYD.

[SAIIP]

Hi guys,

Anyone have any feedback about the training and your view about the company, I would like to know any common you would have.
Good luck with your training.
A staff member from the mother company in Japan......
Enjoy.

[ship]

Whoaaa, FlameOut
Do you guys get any information about JALWAYS
Feb 02 class?
Are they still plannning?
If so, when will the IASCO/HACS start interview?

Thanks in advance

[Flame Out]

Source has it that the Feb 02 class is still a go but no word yet from IASCO (official or otherwise). I'm not sure how many classes JALways plan to have for the year 2002. Just in case some of us missed the news, Japan is now officially in a recession as of last Friday. Have no idea how or if it will effect JAL or JALways.

As far as the interview goes, it wouldn't be for the Feb class. All the positions have been filled by the leftovers from Sep 01 class. Hope the info helps. Will post again if I get the green light.

CFIT, any input is appreciated.
:cool:

[ship]

Thank you for reply, FlameOut.
Please let me know, if you get any information about JALWAYS class.
That will be appreciated.

ship

[Absolutely]

Anyone out there actually in Air Japan?
I'm close to taking a job with them in Feb and would like any info on how things are going. It's very hard to get any info on the progress of the company.
Cheers. :)

[CFIT]

On a positive note, looks like guys in the pool for the JALWAYS B747 F/O Feb'02 class are getting called to confirm their class date. The contract should be rolling in soon after the new year. What a wait huh, "Flameout"! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[777Efoh]

Hi guys,

Any word as to when Air Japan will start hiring again? Will the remunerations be better since basings are now in Osaka and Tokyo?

777EfoH

[verticleroll]

Maybe for next Japanese summer schedule (April 2004)? Who knows, but when hiring re-starts I would expect conditions to be unchanged, or at least not improved.
All positions have only ever been KIX or NRT 'based', although there were sugestions of HNL when operation started. Job is still commuting to KIX or NRT, from wherever you want to live (Oz and NZ is most common). Japanese cost of living a non-issue - not 'living' in Japan or paying Japanese utilities (except for food and entertainment...your choice there!) therefore hard to ask or expect more pay, although it would be nice given the 25% slide in the greenback over the last year relative to $AUS/$NZ. Ouch!
Some routes have gone (SIN) or are going but new routes (HKG) are starting soon. Net effect is no change to pilot numbers at this point in time.
Great job but long commute/ good machinery and loads of fuel:D

[777Efoh]

Hi verticleroll,

Is HACS still the agency for the Air Japan contract? If so, do they accept non US citizens/Green Card holders?

Regards.

[verticleroll]

Parc and HACS. The feeling here is HACS are doing a better job of managing their pilots, although Parc have a higher proportion of guys on this conract.
As you are not going to be based in HNL (or Ireland for that matter) you don't need to worry about US immigration details. It is a commuting contract (to Japan) from wherever you choose to live, although the preference in the past has been for guys living in Australia or New Zealand, which is where the majority of guys still go home to.

[777Efoh]

thanks for the info verticleroll

[verticleroll]

40 more jobs coming up soon...maybe!
F/o positions on 767, commuting contract based out of KIX and NRT. Parc and HACS still seem to be the people to talk to.

[vrefplus5]

verticalroll,

Is HACS's hold pool for B767/B737 for AJX (the Asian carrier) as well....? Just curious, as the B737 type is throwing me off....:confused:

[verticleroll]

Could be for both fleets, although I have not heard about the HACS hold pool. ANA are looking at a LCC using 737s, so perhaps HACS and PARC have been asked to gather names for both sub-airlines (AJX and ANA LCC). It does seem that the new 737 operation that has been publisized in the local papers up here will probably not be part of Air Japan, but will be using cheaper pilots (foreign?) than the ANA workforce - 50% less was the rate quoted in the Japanese press. :(

[vrefplus5]

Thanks Verticleroll....I was just curious, as ANA has 45 -700's coming in 2005....and HACS is starting a pool for B767/737 drivers for an ''extablished Asian carrier'' .

Cheers

[Deske1]

Please,what is the website of HASC?

[vrefplus5]

http://www.hawaiiaviation.com/positions.htm

cheers

[Obbie]

Wow a 4 year long thread and still going.

Was wondering if there is any word on the commuting part.

Do they offer a version that allows for guys to live in Japan.

You won't need a hotel room when at base, so do they give that money to you, or is it commuting only and thats that.

Recieved the app. from HACS today and commuting across
the entire Pacific twice a month not very attractive.

Would like to live in country if they allow it. Are there any guys out there on this contract that can offer some insite as to what is or is not possible.

[dalflyer]

LOL,

I was thinking the same thing!! I have an up to date package from PARC but was wondering if anyone has a package from another agency?

The pay seems OK because you don't have taxes taken out but I'm wondering if 10 consecutive days off is going to enable me to stay married if I have to commute to the states.

Any thought would be appreciated.

R

[oldhasbeen]

Any AUS expats on the HACs contract for AirJapan able to give update on conditions/lifestyle?
Also how far does commute allowance go? Any overtime above the 65 hours? And finally , have they upgraded any F/O s to left seat recently and what sort of experience did you our they have? Have screening in Tokyo later in month, any info much appreciated.

[CaptainProp]

Dalflyer - So what's the PARC package like??

/CP