Hypothetical situaiton - Bird strike

[Put1992]

Your on final approach in a Cessna 152. 500 Feet, 2 stages of flap, flying at around 70 knots.

You have a bird strike

What are your following actions?

(please mention if the situation is different if the bird hits a particular part of the airframe)

Thanks

Put

[IO540]

This happens fairly often.

Depends on where it hits.

Airframe - doesn't matter. Might make a dent.

Windscreen - doesn't matter unless it makes a hole and injures the pilot, or the thing gets spattered all over and you can't see out (latter case you'd go around, on instruments, and hope it falls off)

[Rightbase]

Sticking my neck out (Your instructor would be a better advisor):

If you have not yet called finals, report it when calling final.

If you have been cleared to land, report it if there is time.

Otherwise ignore it. Fly the aeroplane.

If something doesn't work (jammed control, can't see through the canopy, or whatever) it all depends on the circumstances. But if your approach was good and you are not shaken, this landing is likely to be as good as the next attempt.

Be ready for the unexpected - brake hoses might be damaged.

After landing fill in the bird strike report.

Oh - I forgot to mention. The report will ask you what type of bird it was. For my money, a truthful 'I was too busy to notice' answer will do. Then you scrape the bits off and send them away with the form!

[er340790]

Fly the 'plane!

Had a bird strike in Florida back in 2002. NOTHING can prepare you for the noise - unbelievable, like being on the inside of a metal dustbin hit by a wrecking ball. Made a precautionary (very shaky) diversion to nearby Zephyr Hills and removed half a pound of meat-paste/feathers from air intake, leading edge and undercarriage. A seagull per the FBO mechanic. No damage.

It can happen - but you probably won't see the birdy.

Now you know.:ok:

[wrecker]

FLY THE PLANE (excuse me shouting but its important)
Bird Strikes are not that uncommon but those that cause damage are more uncommon.
Statistically most bird strikes occur below 5000ft, some airfields have a greater risk than others. Flying in and out of HUEN it was considered normal to have multiple bird strikes with Lake Swifts (small bird size of a sparrow) . what you didn't what was a strike with some of the large Sh*te hawks that inhabited the area.

[Put1992]

Fly the aircraft, got it:ok:

It's just I remember seeing some rather large birds on finals on my most recent flight. I always thought that it would be a case of continuing as normal, but wasn't sure about ATC procedures etc for the incident.

Cheers

Put

[Insight]

You have to dodge them fairly frequently at Wycombe Air Park, Red Kites! They seem to enjoy circling at either end of the runway.

Hope I never hit one of those! Up to 6 feet wingspan!

[Sir George Cayley]

If you have some red squidgy bits hanging off your a/c, may I suggest not touching them without gloves on.:=

Apart from bird flu there are plent of other communicable deseases a bird carcass can carry; Newcastle Desease is one I know of.:ouch:

Also, as the CAA has just changed over to online reporting it will be a bit difficult sending the parts down the internet:eek: Maybe a digital photo might be the answer.

Do you put your landing & taxi lights on? Did hear once it can reduce unwated attention from birds.

Sir George Cayley

[Spitoon]

I always thought that it would be a case of continuing as normal, but wasn't sure about ATC procedures etc for the incident.If you don't have any problems with the aircraft then - and this isn't meant to be flippant - in most cases ATC don't much care. I've never worked an airport that had a procedure specifically for a birdstrike on approach. If you report it the response will vary depending on the controller's assessment of the situation. If you report it you may well be asked if you want to declare an emergency, and it's your call - if you think you may have any sort of problem then do so and you'll probably be met by a fire vehicle or two...but that's what they're there for.

If you have a strike on or over the runway then do report it - even if there's no other problem - so that the runway can be inspected and any remains removed. As an aside, one of the main reasons that remains are removed is so as not to leave a tasty looking meal for scavengers, which are often bigger than the bird that came off worse from the strike. Also, of course, the inspection will check for any bits that may have been broken off your aeroplane - something that can't be done if the strike happens on the approach.

From the inside, my experience suggests that it can be very noisy (but in the case I recall it was a PA38 and they rattle about and creak quite a bit without the aid of a bird!) - and a shock if you don't see the bird. From the size of the dent it left though I guess it had to have been a fairly big beggar.

[LH2]

in most cases ATC don't much care

Birdstrikes, and significant concentrations of birds must be reported. Don't ask me to quote where it says so, it's one of those hazy memories from my theory exams. Might be worth getting the lowdown on this from the ATC forum.

My mate had a birdstrike on the left prop on his MEP skills test. He was too nervous to notice, but it sure caught the examiner's attention :)

From my mountain training, I'm told vultures spell very bad news. They also tend to fold their wings and drop out of the sky if they see you coming, so diving not a good idea (plus in the mountains you'll probably hit the ground).

[RatherBeFlying]

vultures spell very bad news. They also tend to fold their wings and drop out of the sky if they see you comingI saw one hawk do the same thing as I came up behind him in a glider.

Our local vultures seem quite used to our joining up with them in thermals.

As for a landing light getting birds out of the way, it doesn't always work as I once collected a bird at 3am; however, it did give me time to duck:ok:

[Spitoon]

LH2, the original question came from Brirmingham (OK, I have assumed the UK one, maybe I'm wrong) and I have given an answer from the UK ATC perspective which is what Put1992 asked for.

In the UK, in my experience, ATC are not greatly interested in a single birdstrike on approach if the pilot has no problrems or concerns about the handling of the aircraft. ATC are generally alert to bird concentrations around the aerodrome and know where they tend to forrm - this will result in information being passed to the pilot when appropriate.

In the UK a birdstrike must be reported to the CAA (note, not ATC). The rules are in the Air Navigation Order 2005 Article 143 which says...
Mandatory reporting of birdstrikes
(1) Subject to the provisions of this article, the commander of an aircraft shall make a report to the CAA of any birdstrike occurrence which occurs whilst the aircraft is in flight within the United Kingdom.
(2) The report shall be made within such time, by such means and shall contain such information as may be prescribed and it shall be presented in such form as the CAA may in any particular case approve.
(3) Nothing in this article shall require a person to report any occurrence which he has reported under article 142 or which he has reason to believe has been or will be reported by another person to the CAA in accordance with that article.
(4) A person shall not make any report under this article if he knows or has reason to believe that the report is false in any particular.
(5) In this article “birdstrike occurrence” means an incident in flight in which the commander of an aircraft has reason to believe that the aircraft has been in collision with one or more than one bird.

In the UK we do not have many vultures.

[modelman]

Hi Put
I was at Cov last Saturday and saw ( for the first time) an airfield service vehicle broadcasting birdsong (hopefully not the mating call:E) to repel any unwanted avians.This didn't seem to work as next they were firing pyrotechnics into the air to shift them.

Point is,their presence was probably reported by a pilot ( you maybe?) which must be good practice.

BTW,you going to Dux on the 3rd?

MM

[SNS3Guppy]

I hit what I believe was a falcon in a Cessna 210 over the Grand Canyon some years ago. I was in a steep descent at the time and I only saw the bird for a moment. It peeled the leading edge back to the wing spar. I didn't know what additional damage had been done, and slowed the aircraft, while proceeding to an airport about 30 miles away. Shortly after leveling, I experienced an unrelated gear problem. The only choice at a time like that is to do what you were doing before...continue flying the airplane. The bird strike has changed nothing.

Approaching to land in your Cessna 152; you're configured, stable, and ready to land...continue and land. Your day is probably going much better than the bird's.

I hit a bird in a 182 betweeen 10,000' and 12,000' in a very mountainous area one night. Halloween night, in fact. It was about midnight, and I really didn't expect to hit something up there. After checking the cockpit and .instruments, I shone a flashlight on the windscreen and saw it was covered in blood and a big mess. I landed shortly thereafter uneventfully. It was a little startling alone in the quiet of the night.

I hit something, presumably a large bird, in a Learjet one night, late, while descending through 10,000 approaching Las Vegas. I wasn't sure what the noise had been at first; it sounded somewhat like someone had taken a bat and struck the windscreen hard. I thought perhaps there had been a rupture somewhere in the pressure vessel, because again, I wasn't thinking birdstrike in the early, dark hours of the morning. It wasn't until I was able to see across the cockpit to the lights of Las Vegas when I realized that I couldn't see clearly out of the cockpit. The bird got the radome, crushed it, the damage continued up the copilot side of the windshield. I could see out my side, but not out the right.

I hit a mallard duck on my solo flight. It struck my landing gear. I felt bad; it was a beautiful bird. I believe someone at the flight school had it mounted.

Generally a bird strike while landing falls more along the lines of having a door pop open. A nuisance but often little more. Flying through a large flock of birds may be another matter, but that's usually something you can avoid by delaying landing or seeking another runway.

When I was spraying row crops, we'd kill hundreds of birds throughout the year. Every flight one would be stuffed in the intake to the automatic flagman, some would be wrapped around the spray booms, and once in a while one would make it past the prop and hit the blade cutter on the front of the windscreen (for cutting powerlines). Sometimes it would split in two, and pass along each side of the canopy, other times it would ride the blade to the top of the cockpit and hit the air intake. There it would explode and get blown down the back of my shirt, with feathers and guts flying around in the cockpit. The birds would sit down in the corn or wheat and not hear us coming, because we were very low. Sometimes an entire flock would rise out of the crop as we approached, striking all over the airplane. I called them popcorn birds back then, because that's the sound they made striking the airplane; like a kettle of popcorn popping away.

Distractions happen. Fly the airplane.

[Put1992]

BTW,you going to Dux on the 3rd?

Modelman, you have a PM.

I was at Cov last Saturday and saw ( for the first time) an airfield service vehicle broadcasting birdsong (hopefully not the mating call:E) to repel any unwanted avians.This didn't seem to work as next they were firing pyrotechnics into the air to shift them.

Nice to hear the guys at cov are willing to attempt to get rid of them :ok:

Sounds like normal procedure would be to make a report to ATC, and land A.S.A.P

Cheers

Put

[PompeyPaul]

I would do the following, presuming I can't see out of the window anymore.

1. Declare mayday
2. Fly the numbers
3. Look out of the side window to judge flair
4. Land the aircraft
5. Shutdown engine and bring to a standstill on the runway

*gets ready for "I've never heard of such awful airmanship, what are they teaching you students these days?" type posts*

[modelman]

Shutdown engine and bring to a standstill on the runway



That'll go down well at a busy commercial airport,maybe the side window would come in handy for taxying as well......

[PompeyPaul]

That'll go down well at a busy commercial airport,maybe the side window would come in handy for taxying as well......
As PIC I am ultimately responsible for the safety of the aircraft and the flight. Finance is a secondary consideration. If it is unsafe to taxi I would bring the aircraft to rest. A windscreen that I couldn't see through would be unsafe.

Afterall, a stoppage of 20 mins whilst we clean the windows is infinitely better than a major incident because an aircraft taxi'd into something it shouldn't.

[Spitoon]

Nice to hear the guys at cov are willing to attempt to get rid of them. You don't have to pick on Coventry - every licensed aerodrome in the UK is not just willing but is required to manage the hazard presented to aircraft by birds. And many do it very effectively and efficiently using a range of tools and techniques. One technique to deter quite a few species of bird is to broadcast recorded distress calls of the species concerned, this will cause them to leave the ground and, usually to circle overhead whilst trying to locate the threat. Firing shellcrackers will then be effective in dispersing the flock or, if necessary, shepherding them to an area where they will not present as much of a hazard. Doing bird hazard control well needs some skill - especially so as not to actually cause a greater hazard while trying to get them to move! Whilst many aerodrome's bird hazard control plans extend well beyond the aerodrome boundary, there is only a certain amount that can be done in the runway approach areas.

Shutdown engine and bring to a standstill on the runway
Do that on a runway I'm controlling without a darn good reason and we'll be having words!

Back to the original point - and I recognise that my earlier comments do not appear to have been welcomed greatly - but I'll offer just two thoughts. First, do you believe that a tower controller is not aware of the hazard that birds present and looking out for significant congregations? And secondly, just what do you think the controller will do with the information that you've had a birdstrike in that situation (unless you are formally declaring an emergency or the controller decides to institute some action because of what you say or the way you say it)?

[Put1992]

You don't have to pick on Coventry

I wasn't :bored: Was pointing out that if it ever happened to me, i'd have the comfort of knowing that the appropriate people would be to the rescue! :)

I think the points being made are that if you can land the aircraft, taxiing off the runway (IF suitable to do so) to make things a bit easier for the airport authorities, could help everything go alot smoother :ok:

[LH2]

LH2, the original question came from Brirmingham

It did not say it was restricted to one particular airport or geographical area, unless I missed something.

ATC are generally alert to bird concentrations around the aerodrome

Yes, I stand corrected. It is bird concentrations, not bird strikes that need to be reported to ATC, my apologies.

In the UK we do not have many vultures

You do seem to have a few in Westminster, but I digress.

[LH2]

As PIC I am ultimately responsible for the safety of the aircraft and the flight.

No question about that.

Finance is a secondary consideration.

Secondary to safety by all means, but in no way unimportant. It also needs to be part of the equation, even for a private pilot.

If it is unsafe to taxi I would bring the aircraft to rest.

Certainly, but not in the middle of the runway where it would be highly detrimental to the safety of every other user of the airport (suppose for example that the jet on the approach behind you declares an emergency).

A windscreen that I couldn't see through would be unsafe.

There are still a number of ways to vacate an active runway. Not too hard to jump out and push a light aircraft out of the way, is it? Particularly if you've advised ATC of your difficulties, as you can expect a number of enthusiastic firefighters to be present to give you the required motive power, plus a quick blast from the firehose will get rid of any obstruction on the windscreen (along with the windscreen itself, but financial considerations are secondary, no? :E )

I guess what I'm trying to say is, a good pilot is one who keeps the big picture in mind at all times and considers not only his own safety but that of his fellow aviators as well. And if on top of that you can also maintain straight and level then you're an ace in my eyes :}

[modelman]

A windscreen that I couldn't see through would be unsafe.


Try taxying a Chipmunk or similar.

You can also request progressive taxying instructions

MM

[ShyTorque]

what you didn't what was a strike with some of the large Sh*te hawks that inhabited the area.

Couldn't agree more. :uhoh:

[PompeyPaul]

Do that on a runway I'm controlling without a darn good reason and we'll be having words!
Fine. I'd rather walk to the tower to talk to ATC than be stretchered out of a smashed up PA28 for a visit to hospital.

Any ATC controller, who thinks nothing off asking pilots to perform manoeuvres they are not comfortable with, is just waiting for a visit from the AAIB one day...

[PompeyPaul]

There are still a number of ways to vacate an active runway. Not too hard to jump out and push a light aircraft out of the way, is it? Particularly if you've advised ATC of your difficulties, as you can expect a number of enthusiastic firefighters to be present to give you the required motive power, plus a quick blast from the firehose will get rid of any obstruction on the windscreen (along with the windscreen itself, but financial considerations are secondary, no? :E )

I guess what I'm trying to say is, a good pilot is one who keeps the big picture in mind at all times and considers not only his own safety but that of his fellow aviators as well. And if on top of that you can also maintain straight and level then you're an ace in my eyes
Completely agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting I'd power down the aircraft and walk off and leave it. I'd come to rest and get the mess removed, vacating the runway (SAFELY) being the next most important action.

[mad_jock]

PompeyPaul don't worry to much I would come to a stop and shut down as well if I couldn't see out the front. Hanging out the door with bits of bird guts slapping in your face is stuff for super heros which we obviously arn't.

Spitoon could have as many words as he likes, in fact he could file for all I cared. But as any MOR filed against us will go past the desk of a CAA pilot I doudt very much we would hear anything about it. You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway.

[Put1992]

You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway.

Yes, alot of people never consider it from that perspective. :ok:

[Spitoon]

Clearly I've struck a nerve with some people. But I'll stand by what I've said - some of which appears to have been conveniently ignored.

I started by trying to provide a bit of elucidation on some of the points that had come up in the debate following Put1992's original question and a rider that he/she added regarding ATC. I made the point that after a birdstike during the approach, if the pilot is not having any difficulty handling the aircraft then ATC is not very interested. I've asked what just what you think ATC will do - without much response.

I've pointed out that in the UK every licensed aerodrome has to have procedures for managing the hazard presented by birds to aircraft using that aerodrome. ATC will usually play a major role in these procedures by monitoring bird activity on and around the aerodrome - and so are likely to be aware of flocks in the area. Being told about a solitary bird or two somewhere off the aerodrome is not going to change the way the hazard is managed.

The advice to land the aircraft and then stop on the runway simply because the aircraft has suffered a birdstike is not good. As I said 'Do that on a runway I'm controlling without a darn good reason and we'll be having words!'. By blocking the runway unnecessarily you present an unnecessary hazard to other users of the aerodrome.

On the other hand, tell me, or give me the slightest reason to think that you're having trouble with the aircraft or you're shaken up by the experience and you'll be met by plenty of people to help you.

Spitoon could have as many words as he likes, in fact he could file for all I cared. But as any MOR filed against us will go past the desk of a CAA pilot I doudt very much we would hear anything about it. You pay enough for the landing fee it isn't to much to ask for a couple of firemen to help push it off the runway. I love people who think that filing an MOR is the ultimate threat. And I'm glad to see that he/she believes that any MOR filed against 'us', and I guess that means GA, will be seen by a 'CAA pilot' and, presumably, quashed, again I must guess that's because pilots side with pilots. Fortunately neither supposition is correct.

Still, back to the question. I've tried to give a balanced view in response to comments and assumptions made in some posts. If you choose to believe something else so be it.

P.S. - All of the above is, of course, not necessarily true at an unlicensed aerodrome or where the air traffic service is something other than ATC. But I'm sure I don't need to tell you that...

[Put1992]

Spitoon, I appreciate your feedback, and I can say that I don't personally feel you have hit a nerve.

I think I need a more specific hypothetical situation :8

[moggiee]

Do you put your landing & taxi lights on? Did hear once it can reduce unwated attention from birds.

Sir George Cayley
Sound advice. When I flew in the RAF we used landing and/or taxi lights when at low level. Studies show that birds don't like moving lights and tend to get out of the way.

[helopat]

Just to add my two cents worth...

Two points (apologies if these have already been made)...

One,if you see one gliding hawk, don't worry about it...its the OTHER one you should be worried about (often glide in pairs or threes)...

Two, if you see a bird early, gentle evasive manoeuvre to avoid...if its close, better to just stand on and hope for the best rather than trying to manoeuvre violently and risk doing damage to the aircraft by the manoeuvre vice the bird.

Totally agree that first and foremost (if you've taken a hit) fly first.

HP

[Mark1234]

My take - Land. From 500ft on approach, you're probably going to be on the floor before you can do any decent analysis of what you hit. Talking about it to ATC (If appropriate) can wait. If it has, or if there is a risk of it having taken anything out, a go around is only putting you up there longer.

And in the example C150/2, you can open the side window, and poke your head enough to taxi off - without being a hero :)

Out here we get wedgetails out in the country. B-I-G bu**ers - up to 2.5m wingspan, 5kg. Love them when gliding, the best thermal indicators on the planet. They'll quite happily let you come up within about 10m before they pin the wings in and drop - or just ignore you as you cruise by. Was somewhat suprised to meet one over the city in a 172 yesterday - even more so as he was head to head, full flare, talons outstretched; don't know if he was in attack mode, or just desparately working for clearance!

[SNS3Guppy]

Sound advice. When I flew in the RAF we used landing and/or taxi lights when at low level. Studies show that birds don't like moving lights and tend to get out of the way.


You'll hear the same thing about using radar...it doesn't make any difference, either. You should use lights down low for a much more significant collision hazard, however; other aircraft.

The truth is that even with a very large bird, the chances of doing significant damage at Cherokee cruise speeds aren't high, and you aren't going to be landing with an uncontrollable airplane or no visibility. Yes, in the event that you are disabled due to the condition of the aircraft (or you), then you're fully justified in taking any action you deem necessary at the time.

[PompeyPaul]

I started by trying to provide a bit of elucidation on some of the points that had come up in the debate following Put1992's original question and a rider that he/she added regarding ATC. I made the point that after a birdstike during the approach, if the pilot is not having any difficulty handling the aircraft then ATC is not very interested. I've asked what just what you think ATC will do - without much response.
Agree completely.

I guess the question can cover a whole range of scenarios which would all require different actions:

1. Bird strike \ cracked screen \ completely unable to see anything
2. Bird strike, nothing wrong

Depending on which of those occured, you would react in very different ways.