Atns c e o leaves

[ORANPO]

Any1 have news? Reasons? HSBC AWAITS!

[bigmanatc]

You a fisherman or what...??

[Voel]

Jip, she's gone. Going to Sasol it has been rumoured. Peter Marais now acting.

[126,7]

I heard she left/had to leave because she did the job too well and the board was not happy about that.
Guess we'll never know if she didn't want to renew her contract or wether ATNS didn't want to renew. Sorry to see her go.

[Radar Pete]

126,7 got to agree with you. I think that left to do the job without interference she was the right person to do the job.
Thanks Wrennelle and good luck.

[Goldfish Jack]

She will be missed!

Did a sterling job and really had the interests of the ATCs at heart.

As to the board...............

[ORANPO]

Heard that some of the floor heavies are off 2 landsand?

[ZRH]

Out with the old in with the new !Q! Interesting times ahead...
All we can do is sit back and watch, try to avoid the stampede towards the front door. The company is not all bad, it's the renumeration thats way below par.

[126,7]

Business Day (Johannesburg)

15 April 2008

Julius Baumann
Johannesburg

THE exodus of senior staff from Air Traffic & Navigation Services (ATNS) continues, with the CEO Wrenelle Stander the latest to leave the company.

ATNS is responsible for controlling all air traffic in and out of SA, and at most big airports in the country.

Earlier this month the board of ATNS said that Stander had chosen not to renew her three-year contract.

Stander said yesterday that she would join Sasol. "I have left ATNS for my own personal reasons which have nothing to do with the company," she said.

Peter Marais has been appointed acting CEO.

Stander's resignation comes as Solidarity, the union representing a majority of staff at ATNS, warns that the company could be hit by a further wave of resignations if the parties are not able to settle their pay dispute.

ATNS and Solidarity have agreed to arbitration after pay negotiations collapsed last month. ATNS is offering 9% while Solidarity wants 13%.

Solidarity's Zirk Gouws said yesterday that if a favourable outcome was not reached, many more air traffic controllers were likely to leave. "There is a global shortage of controllers and Middle Eastern companies are paying top dollar for these skills. If our members are not happy, they may well be tempted by these offers."

In recent years ATNS has continued to lose senior staff, many taking up lucrative positions in the Middle East and Australia. Marais said yesterday that the company was still losing 20-25 air traffic controllers a year. "We simply cannot compete with what they are being offered in the Middle East."

At the highest level, these companies are offering principal air traffic controllers $15000- $20000 a month, plus benefits.

ATNS employs 450 controllers and already has 40-50 vacancies.

In a bid to retain key skills, ATNS has launched a retention programme where senior staff are offered enticing four-year contracts to stay.

ATNS also aims to attract new recruits through the ATNS Training Academy. In March, several new air traffic controllers graduated from the academy and more are to graduate in June. But Marais says the training programme will not alleviate ATNS's immediate shortage as it takes a graduate three to five years to qualify as a principal air traffic controller. He insists that the skills shortage has had no effect on safety.

[Goldfish Jack]

Might have the numbers but sure as nuts not got the experience

[FinalControl]

Goldfish Jack mentions nuts, but the real question is if Peter Marais has what it takes to convince the ATNS Board that they have the wrong outlook with reference to ATC employment.:ugh:

[Goldfish Jack]

Peter is only acting, so his hands are tied to a degree, and I am sure there wont be much change until the next CEO is appointed.

You right about that statement - the only short term solution, which could become a permanent one, is to conclude an agreement with an ATS provider and use contract workers.

As to getting the numbers from within SA - you got to start picking the best - look what is happening at Eskom, etc etc

[CuitoCuanavale]

Staff turnover in any ATS provider is a commonality that will never cease. The ratings are increasingly becoming seamless in their recognition, so if anything, staff turnover might even increase amongst ATS providers worldwide.

During the years which were viewed as ‘good’ years also saw that very phenomenon, so unusual it is most definitely not.

ATNS as a company is quite unique and already contrary to most perspectives, operates on the basis that it is in direct competition with other In-Country ATS providers. Aside from the taxation on revenue, salaries are in fact quite good. In relation to purchasing power, most staff from Aerdodrome qualified upwards are already earning larger packages than university graduates still working off their internship, so blaming income is somewhat flawed.

Increasing salaries will not stem the tide, yearly increments and two retention policy applications have failed at that.

However, a trend that I have noticed over the past 4/5 yrs is the increasing number of ATSA phase staff who want to get out either with just their qualification of ATSA or in the ATSA phase en-route to becoming a fully qualified controller. This I believe is a concern that should be addressed by ATNS. As a company ATNS provides innumerable career advancement opportunities, so seeing your future in the company during your early years as a dead-end is an issue that any corporate environment should look to rectifying.

It is this very issue that leads me to believe that the egalitarian work ethic of ATNS is starting to show cracks that are becoming more and more difficult to mend.

The one ATS provider in the world that has an almost 90% staff retention record and job satisfaction record is the Indian CAA. They have an extremely attractive career advancement policy that actually encourages employees to pursue their career within the CAA while providing regular goals and rewards that recognise not only input, but years of service and seniority. In addition to this they also have an incentive scheme that is void of all penalties. The indoctrination there being a total focus on achieving a specific goal and not focussing on what will transpire in the event of a failure to meet that goal……whatever it may be. The end result is that the support from management is such that everybody,…….everybody reaches their goal, irrespective of how long it takes. Discipline, punitive or otherwise is naturally part of the administration structure, but is never focussed on, all-be-its existence known.

This might sound familiar and does not mean that there-in lies the problem with ATNS, but what cannot be ignored is that staff early in their career (many only semi-qualified) are leaving ATNS, so undoubtedly there is a huge flaw that either is not being detected or is willingly being glossed over,……whichever of the two, it in my opinion is a sad reflection of a company that I and so many others still believe in.

[say what]

They come ...they eventually learn the ropes ...they promise .... their hands are all mostly tied ...then they leave ...then the whole cycle starts again ad nausia ....etc etc ... in the mean time the "Bradshaw Clones" are left to run the place further into the ground ... (Apparently Mr Norval's the Manager ATS's CV is floating around Dubai/Middle East looking for nesting ground) ......Shame on u ATNS ....10-15 years have gone by since the great "trek" out of the DCA/ATNS started and you still have'nt solved the same old issues ...

Yes you probably cannot match Middle Eastern salaries ....although having said that, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and the UK seem to have made a valiant effort ...thus the need for an increase in the Middle East to keep getting controllers.
But you can match Internationally accepted working hours, max time in chair guidelines etc. Example no longer than 2-2.5hrs in position then at least 30min break (in most cases it's an hour break) . 2 x morrning 2 X Aft and 2 X night shifts ..sleep day and then three off ... This you can match ...and should have by now....
You are the only ATS company in the world that requires curent ICAO rated/validated ATCO's to re-write a string of exams when they return to their "Home" country ...???????? or if they come to work there as an Expat ATCO ..:ugh:.(very few Expats do come...i wonder why) . On that topic ....if you want Expat controllers .....buy a few dozen Town houses on a decent secure compound for the Expats and your ATC's to stay in (it'll b a good investment) and lay on transport, schooling allowance, water and electricity, ticket back to point of hire per year, as part of the contract then u might get some more interest from the Int first world ATCO's.Come on ATNS get it right now PLEASE !!!!!!! Last chance !!!!!!!

[126,7]

The ATNS crew travelled all over the world a little over a year ago trying to recruit staff. I bet they didn't listen once to what was needed to attract people to work in SA and they can't be so ignorant as not to see what other companies offer their expat ATCOs....

So if Charles' CV is in the ME, what does that say for ATNS when their managers are even jumping ship? Nice job!

say what
I like your suggestion about the town houses and the other benefits. Would be a small investment for ATNS.
As to the testing process: An over-the-top procedure but this way they can invite anybody they want and show the board of directors that they need really good ATCOs and that the ones who apply from Assendoftheworld are just not good enough. All politics. Imagine the money being spent on flights, accommodation etc etc. But it doesn't look like anybody is learning anything from this exercise either...

[BlueSkye]

A couple of people will be more than willing to come and help. The requirements are as follows:
1. EUR10 000 pm.
2. 35+ days annual leave.
3. Loss of License insurance.
4. After-retirement medical aid assistance.

Not a dagga induced delusion of grandeur, just a cold hard fact. FIFO.

[say what]

The ATNS crew travelled all over the world a little over a year ago trying to recruit staff. I bet they didn't listen once to what was needed to attract people to work in SA and they can't be so ignorant as not to see what other companies offer their expat ATCOs....

126.7 ... u are spot on .... one can hear and hear and hear ...all depends what u want to hear, and what u want to change ....
Reality is to make the working hours in line with MMAANNSOOO is not difficult ...it takes time .... but not 10-15 years !!! Max time in chair is a decision ....you lay it down and then you work toward achieving it ... max 2-3 years ... again NOT 10-15 years !!

Decent Expat packages all over the world incl housing, schooling etc etc ...there are stacks of Northern Hemisphere (cold countries) guys and gals that would love a 3/4 year stint in Africa... but not on the basis ATNS tried it....and definitely not with the working conditions that are third world and considered illegal but most international standards.
It's one thing to expose yourself to an additional higher crime rate/risk, to paying your "own way" to work as an Expat, with nothing to take home except a tan and memories , it's another thing to do all this and then work like a hound month in and month out ...


re. a company compound .... a decent townhouse complex, safe with good recreational area .... can you imagine what something like that would be worth now if ATNS went that route 10years ago ? That's another "perk" round the so-called restrictions set by the regulating committee ... it'll be interesting to see what that regulating committee is going to say now when things are grinding to a halt .... their "restrictions" over the years have not paid much dividends ....


By and by ...let me just say this - I understand that Messrs Bradshaw, Norval and other "like minded " clones have not/did not mean harm/destruction for ATNS ...I actually do believe they have ATNS's best interest at heart ... they were/are responsible for a lot of good ...their methods of implementation and personal vendetttas against some has simply not being conducive to moving ahead ....this is meant to sound as a "semi" thumb's up to them .... I know that might be enough to make most fall down in un-controllable laughter :yuk::p:ooh:but I think one always needs to examine the coin on both sides ....

Oh yes ...ATNS please take note ...change is slow in coming ...you are talking about healing years of scars and disbelief :ouch:.... so don't expect immediate change ...but gain the worker-bees trust not by force ... earn it.:ok:

Anyway ....Asta La Vista .....
know this .... if continue to make the wrong moves .... folks will leave .... downward graph = down is bad in aviation = bad boss
Good moves ....folks stay or come back ...upward graph ....up is good = good boss

And for Pete's sake .... I can understand re-writing airlaw when you return as a rated/validated ICAO controller but don't make folks write all those silly exams again ... especially not for ex SA' ATCO's returning ...no one else does ...

[Nookie2nite]

Well well - sorry I can't agree with you bout Charles - and one thing the UAE employers should think about is that some SA atcs left smiling because they were gettin away from him, so will an SA atc wanna jump ship from SA to work under him again??? Dunno so much.....

Back to the serious stuff....so, we all know the q for DXB, and now there is one for AUH....does ATNS know bout this??? Around 15 pending (possible 5 already) resignations from the surf, and the windy city? And these are the APP TWR guys....????

Eish......good luck Goldfish - get ready to earn that overtime boet!

:)

N2n

[Skyjuggler]

Confirmed, Just got off the phone with a friend of mine still in Durban.
One leaving end of this month, tickets booked,
Another three have been accepted and are sorting out the paperwork, One other has been accepted and will be resigning end of december or thereabouts...
There is also a small contingent of ATSA's leaving, but not sure of the numbers...

Looks like fun and games on the way:rolleyes:

Best of luck to all the hardworking guys who remain.

[ORANPO]

Maandag maandag tjomma! Thats the solution.