Do hours of skill test count towards 45 hrs?

[mattia_70]

Hi, I have heard/read somewhere (but I don't remeber exactly where) that the hours of the skill tests can be counted to reach the 45 necessary for PPL application. So, let's say I can take the skill test with only 43 hours and then add the 2 hrs of the skill test to get the 45 hrs and apply for PPL.

Can someone give me a reference where this is stated clearly?. In Jar-FCL it is not clearly stated but it can be inferred by the requirements.

Cheers

[christimson]

As I understand it you can take your skills test whenever you like. You just need a miniumum of 45 hours to gain your PPL. So in theory you could pass your skills test early on in your training but you would still have to gain the required number of hours before your license could be issued.

[SkyCamMK]

LASORS states the requirements of 25 dual and 10 solo plus QXC. Night rating is 5 extra hours but other hours should be OK whatever, skill test or not. I have not got AMC to JAR-FCL 1.125 to hand but unless it is excluded there, which I doubt, then Yes. Are you ahead of schedule in training or just short of cash? Training for the small amount extra to pay is usually good value to a low hour pilot. AMC Means Acceptable Means of Compliance and is not available on the internet at the JAA site.

[Shunter]

Yes, it's fine.

I passed my skills test and still had under 45hrs, so had to go back out again and fly around for a while to get the time in before I could send in my application to the CAA.

[mattia_70]

SkyCamMK, actually I logged about 100 hours PIC in gliders so I was going to take into account 10 hours credit from that which brings down the requirement for PPL training to 35 hrs. My question is if I can take the skill test with 33 hours and then add the 2 hours of the test and send in the application form to the CAA.

I am short of time as I have a job offer in Italy which I do not want to miss but I don't want to leave the UK before finishing my PPL!

[homeguard]

Mattia

For the gliding 10 hours credit, that is set against the 45 hours minimum hours of 'experience' . However, your are still required to undertake 25 hours dual training and the 10 hours supervised solo, together totaling 35 hours, before you may be tested. Your 33 hours will not be enough.

[mattia_70]

Actually the dual training is reduced to 20 hrs (see JAR-FCL)

[foxmoth]

But I think if you have the 10 hrs solo the 2 hours will count to the 35 hours so you should be OK if you have the solo requirement.

[mattia_70]

Problem is, I would like to have an official reference because the CFI at my school is veri cautious with these kind of things and he always tells me that it would be better to have things written down by the CAA. I already wrote twice to the CAA but never got an answer, though.
So if I can cite an official document, it would be better.

[NorthSouth]

There's no question in my mind that you don't need to have flown 45 hours before sitting the skill test. But your issue is a little different. It revolves around how your gliding hours are counted.

Unfortunately LASORS is a little contradictory on this. It says
(a) you can reduce the minimum dual training hours to 20 if you're being credited with PIC time on other aircraft
(b) "Holders of pilot licences or equivalent privileges" on, amongst other things, gliders, can count up to 10 of their PIC gliding hours towards the 45 for a PPL(A)
But it then says, under credits for TMG flying, that "Any previous flying experience gained in TMG aircraft (i.e. Vigilant) may be counted towards the 45 hour minima required for the grant of a JARFCL PPL(A) with TMG rating. However the specific requirements under JAR-FCL (25 hours dual instruction and 10 hours supervised solo-flight time) must be completed."

It seems to me to be unlikely that they'd agree to give you a 5hr credit towards the 25hr dual requirement for previous glider PIC time, but not for TMGs.

In my view you would also need to check what the CAA accepts as a "pilot licence or equivalent privilege" in relation to gliders, in order to qualify for your 10 hour credit and your 5hr reduction on the 25hr dual requirement.

So I'm afraid it looks like you're back to the CAA! By the way there's nothing in CAA Standards Document 19 nor in the AMC to JAR-FCL 1.125 on this topic.

NS

[mattia_70]

NOrthSouth, I did not notice the paragraph about TMG.

Anyway in this paragraph nothing is said about having a licence but only about "any previous flying experience". So it seems that ths paragraph is applicable to those who have flown a TMG but do not have a licence (so, I suppose, they were were under training).

And it is also applicable for those who want a PPL with only TMG rating (and not SEP rating).

Does it make sense?

So to me, it still seems possible that the CAA will allow me to dual train for only 20 hours.

My glider Licence is issued by the Italian Civil Aviation Authority and on the front sheet says "In accordance with ICAO standards" (and the licence look like any other JAR licence)

[PompeyPaul]

I passed my skills test and still had under 45hrs, so had to go back out again and fly around for a while to get the time in before I could send in my application to the CAA.Careful, you'll have the "if you went solo in less than 20hours then you are a danger to yourself and everybody else in the air and your FTO is irresponsible" brigage to turn up any minute now :O

[Shunter]

Well actually I didn't. I went solo at about 21 hours if I recall. I simply had great consistency as the weather improved and hammered the last 20 hours out in about 3 weeks.

That's where a flexible job and a nearby airport came in very handy.

[rustyflyer]

Hi, I did almost exactly what you are asking. 43 hrs 40 mins logged before LST then 2 hrs 10 mins test. Licence issued August 2006, just before the school went bust! A near miss as I had paid up-front... (yes I know now never ever ever := , phew that was close :} ) Don't know about finding this in official docs but it is fine.

R

[c-mack]

So does this mean that technically you can take your skills test at any time after all exams are completed, solos etc, make up the hours to 45 then apply for the liscense?

[Shunter]

If you've met the prerequisites, ie. 25hrs dual, 10hrs solo (which can include your QXC), you can do what you like with the last 10 hours. Knock out a night rating (sorry, qualification) if you like, although I believe that even that could technically form part of the aforementioned 35hrs. You just need 45hrs in the book (which can include the test) before you can send the paperwork off.

Of course that's never going to be a choice for the majority of people, especially since most flying schools tailor their courses to essentially prevent it (and some may even milk hours if they can get away with it) but according to the rule book, if you're some kind of superhuman flying God, it can be done.

[BackPacker]

So does this mean that technically you can take your skills test at any time after all exams are completed, solos etc, make up the hours to 45 then apply for the liscense?

Actually, I'm not even aware of a regulation that specifies that you can only do your skills test after having done all the theory exams.

The only regulation I know of, and as others have pointed out, is that you have to have done everything (45 hours total, 25 hours dual, 10 hours solo, simulated instrument time, theory exams, skills test) before you send the paperwork off to the CAA.

If you've met the prerequisites, ie. 25hrs dual, 10hrs solo (which can include your QXC), you can do what you like with the last 10 hours. Knock out a night rating (sorry, qualification) if you like, although I believe that even that could technically form part of the aforementioned 35hrs.

True. The five hours for the NQ rating can be part of the 25 hours dual and 10 hours solo. Important is that of the three hours dual some need to be a cross-country, not just circuit bashing. I don't remember a specific distance like the QXC but it has to be to another field. There is no minimum number of solo night hours required, just five solo circuits (with stop-and-goes - touch-and-goes are not allowed).

[Shunter]

No it doesn't. There's no requirement to visit another field as part of your night nav. Simply that you've done an hour of nav at night. I had a great time doing mine as I already had my IMC, hence up through the clouds, flew around for a bit bouncing off beacons, then back down on the ILS. Spendid ;)

[mattia_70]

Backpacker,
here's what LASORS (for UK) and JAR say about the theoretical test for PPL:

"An applicant may not take the Skill Test until all of
the associated theoretical knowledge
examinations have been passed." (section C 1.4)

[BackPacker]

Of course it makes sense, but I didn't know it was actually in writing.

I stand corrected.

[homeguard]

Before you can take the Skill Test you must have completed all of the following requirements;

25 hours dual;

specifically 2 hours stall/spin awareness, 4 hours navigation and generally the complete approved syllabus of training.

10 hours solo;

specifically 5 hours cross country navigation including a 150nm QXC. The other 5 hours may be made of any mix.

All seven written examinations must have been passed and still be current.
A certificate of course completion must have been signed by the flying school, which is valid for six months.

If 45 hours supervised flight has not been achieved then this will need to be flown before the license application is made.