bmibaby

[bleeds off]

Hi there

Any chance to get some infos from the insiders regarding possible -or not- F/O's recruitment over the mid-term future?

How is life there roster wise?
What might be the deal for the non rated joiners?

Thanks :p

Bleeds

[SUPER HANS]

A few too many f/o's at some bases at the moment.

With regard to not being type rated they'll politely make you pay £3000 up front and then take £333 out of your pay for the next three years (£15000).

[bleeds off]

Thanks for that HANS
Is bhx among the overcrewed bases?

bleeds

[SUPER HANS]

Currently Bhx is slightly overcrewed with f/o's but some are trying to get into mainline. Rostering is heavy in the summer months, I regularly got over 90hrs, and lighter (about 60hrs) in the winter months. Most of the earlies check in about 6am, and the lates vary but many land after midnight.

[bleeds off]

All right.
Have you got an idea of the average turn over at the moment? Particularly for fo's ?

Bleeds:p

[CAT1 REVERSION]

Are they over crewed in MAN?

[bleeds off]

What is the time to command with them?
Do you FO's tend to stay until getting command there or are you looking around?
Bleeds:p

[nitefiter]

Bleeds Off,
from the CP today,
at the moment he is only interested in rated and experienced first officers and expects there to be no direct entry commands for 2008.
Time to command is/was probably one of the quickest in the industry.
At the moment there are fo,s who are taking commands and some that are moving on.Attrition rate is not that great at the moment.
All in all a good gig,excellent training,not a bad package,company have honoured first year of agreed three year deal,roster is tending to be a bit more stable,though summer is only just upon us so time will tell!
New fleet would be good news.

[bleeds off]

Thx a lot for that insight nitefiter.
Do u know tho if some recruitments are currently on going?

[Firestorm]

Lots of pilots (both Captains and FOs) talking about going to Ryanair. Draw your own conclusions.

[nitefiter]

command upgrades are on going,two rated guys just taken on and a small number of first officer positions likely mid summer.dont know how many rated fo,s are out there.
I havnt heard anyone say they are jumping ship to FR.
But i will ask.

[bleeds off]

I guess those who have planned to join RYR at some point might be reconsidering, given MOL's anticipation to ground a significant number of airframes on the coming winter.
Though, would be interested to have an idea of the number of guys/girls still interested in making the move.

Bleeds:p

PS - Is the recruitment main person still Capt P. Durnford ?

[CheekyVisual]

The only people I've heard talking about Ryanair are those that are desperate to stay in BHX and believe Ryanair will eventually force baby and Fly Be out. This may well happen in the long term but isn't going to happen by next summer as some seem to believe. By then there may be other, better options. If you talk to the people who've worked there those that are thinking of jumping may be in for a few nasty surprises.

[bleeds off]

RYR forcing Baby out of BHX.... Did not think 'bout that one.
How seroius could that be? Is not baby resilient enough to thwart that?

[crewcostundercontrol]

Baby gets on at EME Because EZY and FR let them!! They would be crushed if the big boys wanted them out. It is only due to continental expansion that means the big boys have bigger fish to fry......for the moment.

[hetfield]

crewcostundercontrol (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=228268)


Lovely nick.......:D

[Propellerhead]

The CP's only interested in experienced F/Os? Sure that's what he wants but not quite sure where he's going to find them, apart from RYR or Eastern Europe. Especially not with BA taking on loads of Pilots this year. Baby is a good first job, and good if you want a regional base with quick command. Also their type rating scheme is actually quite generous compared to RYR and other carriers. 15k is about right and most is interest and tax free.

[bleeds off]

Could you check your PM's please?
Thanks
Bleeds:p

[bleeds off]

Indeed a quick time to command is a real attractive factor is it not?

[SUPER HANS]

It's amazing that Propellerhead thinks that being made to pay for your type rating is 'actually quite generous'

[Propellerhead]

As I said, in comparison with RYR and other similar airlines. I never said I thought it was right in principle!

[CAT1 REVERSION]

Can anyone tell me what time to command is, ie hrs etc.....

Also, can anyone tell me if they are recruiting FO's (733 rated) for MAN. With 2k+heavy turbo prop hrs, 500+hrs 733 do you go in as SFO, if so, what is the pay? What is net take home per/month for SFO's?

Cheers
:ok:

[SUPER HANS]

You wont join as an sfo, that is dependent upon being there three years or two years plus a successful command assessment

[Propellerhead]

Don't think there's any difference in T&Cs between F/Os and SFOs. Time to command is quick generally - as soon as you have 3500 hours I think.

[CAT1 REVERSION]

Cheers guys,

Anyone know what the net take home pay is for FO's, and typically how many hours you can expect to work per month?

Thanks again:ok:

[FlyboyUK]

Try here http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=4f08c4ake3v7g481syy58gtrc5sh5rv0whyybx7fqrau j6kzu5s

[Taiguin]

How stable is BMI Baby at the moment?! I've heard they are struggling with pax numbers?! Anybody any inside information?!

[8028410q]

Oh Lord, another rumour monger! :ugh:

We're doing ok, exceeded targets for the first quarter, forward bookings good also. :ok:

8028410q

[Taiguin]

Not trying to start rumours mate...just what i've heard.

[No Country Members]

I don't suppose he/she IS disappointed, sounded more like a question to me.

[crewcostundercontrol]

So what are Baby going to do in order to weather the storm? Ryans are freezing pay and grounding aircraft EZY are freezing pay stopping recruitment and getting shot of a few old 700's. Does Baby have it's head in the sand? How can they afford the fuel and a market downturn? They have made no progress for ages now, no new bases no new aircraft no continental expansion.....Where are they gona be in a years time?

[nonemmet]

EZY are freezing pay stopping recruitment and getting shot of a few old 700's
Not quite, so far only the pay of Senior Management is frozen. Flt Deck will receive RPI+0.5% in October - part of the 2 year pay deal insisted on by the Senior Management:O

[8028410q]

The following are my personal thoughts on the matter:

I believe the problem that EZ and FR have is that they are just too big, all those planes need so much fuel, and with fuel being $105-$110 per barrel, in my view, they cannot afford to fly them, slash seats to 1p and keep buying new planes at the same time; something has got to give.

Have they both expanded too much? I don't know, but baby has 80% load factors across all it's bases and is making money (not a lot, a little), but it's doing so without having to cut prices to compete or give a million seats away in order to drum up business. Can the same be said for the likes of FR or EZ?

Interesting times indeed.

8028410q

[CheekyVisual]

Costs mate you've answered your own question ! Baby don't need to freeze pay and ground aircraft for exactly the reason they haven't expanded rapidly and opened lots of european bases filled by expensively leased airbuses and NGs ! Ok the profits aren't massive but neither are the losses !

Heads aren't in the sand. 2008 looks good but it's 2009 that is going to be where the pain really starts to hit. On that basis I don't think Baby are worse of than anyone else they only have to fund the operation of 21 relatively cheap (lease wise) aircraft not a couple of hundred expensive ones. Sometimes economies of scale work the other way as well !

BUT if the bankers don't stop cashing in their business and heading for their holiday homes in the carribean to ride out the coming storm we're all in trouble anyway no matter what industry or job you have !

To answer the question back on thread. Baby are looking for tyoe rated (only) FOs. All will join as FOs no matter what experience. SFO only available following successful command assessment. Not sure there's any difference in Ts&Cs anyway. Not sure what bases these are for. No direct entry commands for 2008-09 as there is now a reasonable pool of command ready SFOs. As with all LoCos expect to work 850 to 900 hours. No fixed roster but guaranteed 10 days off and one "Day Free Of Duty" in 28 which is pretty good.

[Cloud Bunny]

What are the current Ts&Cs? Is ppjn accurate? I'm curious to also know how much you guys make a month in sector pay on average. How does being paid by the sector as opposed to the hour work out? Also are you guaranteed (as much as possible) to do the 800 hours+ in a year? Interested to know as I (in the airline that is supposed to work you to death (FR)) did about 570 hours in the last year which is just crippling financially.
Happy place to be?
Seem to agree with the earlier sentiments regding baby's position in the marketplace, the business seems solid enough. 80% load factros and positive forward bookings are always a good indicator, particularly if the pricing of the tickets is realistic as well. The problem as we see it with FR is that they are in a situation where the planes keep coming cos they cant delay or cancel them, they don't seem to be able to think about stopping recruitment - we are so ridiculously overcrewed it's unreal, and yet continue to sell seats for 1p. I did a trip over to Ireland last week that had 11 pax. Anyway I seem to have gotten side tracked this thread is nothing to do with FR!!
Replies to the above queries in any form gratefully received.:8

[buzzlight]

Baby are looking for tyoe rated (only) FOs. All will join as FOs no matter what experience

No direct entry commands for 2008-09 as there is now a reasonable pool of command ready SFOs

Pilots from regional are still waiting for transfer to baby:ugh:

[bleeds off]

It seems that the project of a merger between Virgin and bmi is on its way now. What consequences may that imply for baby?
Maybe too early to say?

[CheekyVisual]

Buzzlight. Don't shoot the messenger. Obviously transfers within the group should take priority BUT Baby staff enquiring about recruitment have been told there are vacancies but only for people holding a 737 type rating. The fact there aren't any available doesn't seem to make much difference. Having come from outside I'm not sure of the internal politics but would a transfer from regional result in a "free" type rating ? I'm in no way saying it shouldn't, it obviously should. The politics of who pays for what within the bmi group maybe holding you back more than the personal wishes of those making the decisions. I doubt there's any spare cash in the Baby training budget for internal transfers if these have to be funded by Tiny Town. They are not even recruiting on a self sponsored basis at present.

[kick the tires]

8028410q

Indeed the same can be said for EZY!

Pax figures for March 08 shows a load factor of 87.4% and a rolling annual load factor of 83.5%.

Thats a total of 39,652,382 passengers!

:ok:

[Looker]

Cloud Bunny,

Current T & C's (rounded up/down)

New entrant (up to final line check) £25k
Frozen ATPL (from final line check) £36.5k
Unfrozen ATPL £45k
SFO £47k
FOs sector pay £14
Captain £75k
Captains sector pay £23

So a FO could expect around £51k gross whilst a Captain can expect £86k gross.

The grass often appears greener but often disappoints - I will not consider jumping ship to Ryanair. Ryanair have failed to impact on baby ops primarily because when they expand into a current baby base the airfield management seem to be insisting on new routes not competition over existing routes. Perversely this is good for baby - Ryanair advertising raises the profile of the new (to them) airfield, when pax find they can't fly to their preferred destination with Ryanair they look elsewhere and sometimes we pick up their custom.

I will echo the comments of others on here that baby is a good employer with a really decent chief pilot. Not perfect but all small niggly stuff that will seem trifling if/when the recession bites. The ex Ryanair pilots with baby seem to be glad with the T & C's and are certainly not looking to move back to Ryanair. Time to command is now looking longer as a pool of command assessed FO's builds up - some new command courses going through at 2 per month.

Rumours abound concerning bmi - but the middle managers whom I trust (where else can you say that!!!!) seem pretty confident about the future.
It's been said elsewhere that SMB is looking to buy not sell so prospects appear better here than many other places. Only time will tell.

[Cloud Bunny]

Thats great thanks so much for the information, much appreciated. I've alsways thought that baby would be a good place to be as I've very very rarely heard anything negative.
One small point, they are looking for 737 guys and obviously being at FR all my hours are on the NG. Would this in any way be a disadvantage? Also, and I have asked this question elsewhere but always good to get additional clarification, would the LST/LPC at the end of the conversion count as a check to upgrade to full ATPL. I dont yethave the ATPL but do have the hours for it and would obviously be keen to go straight onto the £45k starting salary! In fact it would be essential!
Again thanks for the info, it certainly sounds an improvement from what I'm suffering at the moment.

[Looker]

I presume that your licence will include B737 300 - 900 rating in which case there should be no problems. Obviously there will be operating differences but again not really a problem.

Just mention to the TRE doing your LPC that you need to complete paperwork for issue of an ATPL and he/she will gladly oblige. I believe the only difference is that a raw data ILS must be flown - but do check!

Once ATPL has been issued and you're checked to the line (which shouldn't take long for someone with 738 experience) your salary will be £45k.

Best of luck with your application.

[Brushtype4]

Cloud Bunny, I think you would require a 'differences course' to operate the Classic if you have only previously been checked out on the NG?

Good Luck

[RED WINGS]

ATPL upgrade is LPC plus raw data ILS which is ATPL skills test!

Make sure they tick the ATPL test box on your LPC ticket before you send it to the CAA, then all you need to do is write a bid cheque!

[Jenson Button]

buzzlight - perhaps regional were asked for pirates, but there were none availlable to transfer ??? odd though:ugh::ugh::ugh:

JB