Salary in EK

[azamat69]

Hey guys,

Just got one question and was wondering if you could help me out. Its to do with EK salary. On the website it says that for FO's the salary is $20,000AED/month approx. It also says that hourly pay is $35AED/hour upto the productivity limit which is 78 hours. Does this mean that you get 20K plus 78*35 for a 78 hour month, which means that the pay is approx 23000K?

Are FO's getting much overtime in EK? Thanks for the help guys

azamat

[Bypass ratio]

Here are the pay figures for F/O:

Basically we get paid for flying hours at the hourly rate of AED35 up to the threshold for the month. Now depending on the length of the month that is 70 hours for a 28 day month, 73 hours for a 29 day month, 76 hours for a 30 day month and 78 hours for a 31 day month. Any flying done above these thresholds we get paid an overtime rate of AED325/hour. If you accept a duty on a day off you also receive a payment of AED650.

EG. My roster for March indicates 98 block hours, therefore March is a 31 day month so AED35 x 78 hours = AED2730 Flight Pay
I did 98 block hours minus 78 hours = 20 hours, therefore 20 hours x AED325 = AED6500 overtime




Basic Salary AED21470
Telephone allowance AED100
Exchange Rate Protection AED1610 (for an Australian F/O)

So I received about AED32410 for the month, so that = 8824USD/5619EUR/9492AUD


Last month I did 20 hours of overtime on the Boeing 777


I hope this helps

[dubble_dubble]

hey Bypass ratio, what is the yearly pay rise for EK F/O's? is it 3% per year? thnx!

dbl

[azamat69]

thanks alot bypass, that makes alot of sense to me..i was on the right track then!!!

I have been given a slot on the 777 later this year with EK so i just wanted to get my facts in order first, are you guys doing that many hours a month or is 98 a non normal month? a few guys have been telling me they are averaging 50-55hours, which seems really low, on average how many hours have you been doing in the past 6months?

thanks again for the info mate

cheers

[Bypass ratio]

I have been with the company for about 16 months and have done about 1080 hours. Mind you, I have taken my full complement of annual leave. Last month was a big month for overtime I must say, but I was in top bid group and wrote my own roster. Overtime varies by fleet/monthly/seasonal variations. I choose to work hard some months and choose to do fcuk all in other months. If you want it you can usually get it. I know I might get a mouthful from the Airbus guys in saying this, but if you join the 777 fleet you have the capacity to earn much more than an Airbus guy and have a much better lifestyle as the 777 does short/medium/long and ultra long haul patterns. I think at last count we had 33 differen't layovers on the 777 covering every continent on earth.

I think the yearly pay rise is 3% but don't quote me on that. Whatever it is, it is fcuk all

[Tears for Fears]

tks By PASS

You sheded a light on the EK salary problem.
This it confirms why Europeans are not joining anymore, untill something will happens...

5600 euros for 98 hours ???!!!!

Although I passed the assesment, I have big doubts if to join the airline.
Why ?
Here the average is : 5600 euros/60 h per month (meal allowance included) and no layovers, just daily turnarounds. usually 4 trips a day.
Flying just on the A320 F.

Is it still worth the bargain ?
Any advise from europeans ?

Maybe it would be better to get our bunch of euros and go on holidays... in the USA or Asia.:(

[BigGeordie]

Remember that you have to add your free accommodation to the salaries quoted above. Still doesn't come out at much if you convert it into Euros or Pounds though.

[Keith Discovering]

What's your salary worth?

Gulf News yesterday:


Gulf currencies plunge drastically since 2002
By Babu Das Augustine, Banking Editor
Published: April 08, 2008, 00:06


Dubai: The UAE dirham depreciated 37 per cent against a basket of 11 currencies of the GCC's leading trading partners in the past five years.

All other Gulf currencies with the exception of the Kuwaiti dinar also declined by 37 to 47 per cent. The Kuwaiti dinar, which was de-linked from the dollar and pegged against an undisclosed basket of currencies last May, depreciated 23 per cent in the same period, according to an estimate by NCB Capital, a Saudi Arabia-based investment bank.

The currency depreciation effectively means higher imported inflation in the region, adding to the overall inflation caused by factors such as supply shortages and surging demand due to the regional economic boom.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


While currency flexibility enabled Kuwait to limit effective depreciation substantially, according to NCB Capital's estimates the Saudi riyal, UAE dirham and Qatari riyal have depreciated 40 per cent, 37 per cent and 47 per cent respectively in nominal terms and the dollar declined 78 per cent against the euro and 40 per cent against sterling.

[Tears for Fears]

Yes, of course free house....

but if I fly 98h here, I will be able to rent 2 appartments, not just one ...(1 at the seaside for days off and 1 downtown):p

This is was my doubt! To live or to fly ?
Is it better to fly on a small plane, midsize airline, short flights,no carrer future (just command course after 11 years) and getting 5600E/60H, or flying brain new equipments,big airline, awarding progression and getting 5600e/98 hours ?
The money or the glory ?

[Easy Ryder]

Hmm those earnings are about £1000-1300 more (after tax) than i get at my current charter employer here in the UK on a 320/330. Although i barely work 50hrs a month...

So the 777 drivers get a better deal than the 'bus boys hey? How many hrs is a 'bus driver getting per month?

Finally is the 777 seeing more destinations and/or better rosters in general?

I can see why everyone's PO'd though... £4400approx and the Dirham is now worth 30% less than a few years ago. That kind of money would have brought home around £5500-6000........ Thats depressing...:sad:

[Cyberbird]

@ Biypass ratio ...
" I think at last count we had 33 differen't layovers on the 777 covering every continent on earth"

Ohhhhh - i didn't know we're flying to Antarctica already as well -
but - hey - i've forgot: Keep Discovering !:ok:

[scaglietti]

Please allow me to inject a note of caution here.

As most investment advertisements quote in the fineprint "past performance does not guarantee future results".

Bypass' 20 hours of "overtime" is a cyclical thing. A few months ago you could, if you wished, get all the "overtime" you wished on the 'bus and the guys on the Boeing got very little. With the introduction of several new long and ultra-long haul operations on the Boeing the situation has changed. Also the 'bus no longer operates DXB/HAM/JFK, Manila is now on the Boeing as are all the LHR, MAN, CDG and DME flights and lets not forget that the 'bus used to operate double-daily direct JFK.

Two things to consider:

1) Most of the new ULR flights require you spend more time in flight than at the layover hotel - a situation that I surmise is physically (from a health standpoint) unsustainable over the medium-to-long term.
2) There are 58 BUFF's waiting in the wings that over the next few years will start to pick-up some of the long and medium haul routes currently operated by the Boeing (JFK, LHR, etc).

IMHO you should plan on the basic salary and treat any productivity pay as an unexpected windfall.

Scaglietti

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

Totally agree with scaglietti. While 98 hours sounds nice, it's not a monthly occurance. Not to mention,if you keep flying like that, you will time out and then start sitting. I had a few really high hour months last year (and took all alloted vacation) and have had some months between 50 and 60 hours. It's hit and miss and you shouldn't count on averaging a 90+ hour month, it's unrealistic. When the A380 shows up, it will start taking some of the 777 routes and the talk will shift to the quality of life the 380 guys have with layovers etc. Plan on contract pay as they constantly keep messing with the bidding system.

[ekpilot]

Well as you can see there are lots of young motivated pilots like bypass ratio joining EK right now. They are willing to work for half price of industry standards ( 98 hours for the price of 60 hours ) and probably pay for their training if they had to. No respect for any industry standards as long as they get the LH seat. That is probably what bypass ratio means... Then they come here and start shouting to everyone how good the job is... after 16 months. What do you think will happen to you. One day you will be in your fifties working 120 hours a month at half of what you are earning today. Why? Because you told every one how good it is here. Let me tell you something. It was much better here before you joined 16 months ago. But for the last couple of years it is going south BIG TIME for professional pilots everywhere. Certain pilots will always come for the job. Just ask yourself if it is really worth it in the long run. If I would have to reconsider today joining EK i would stay home on the wide body job i had. But if you are on an RJ or just want to bypass the ratio of 12 years in the RH seat to get a LH seat in a major airline... then you come here. For sure coming from a regional you may think the deal is better. Well you may have not realized yet that you are now flying in a major airline. The deal is fast becoming below industry standards for a major airline. I'm sure you have acquired good experience in your last 16 months as an F/O at EK and i'm glad for you. But I think it is pretty much a consensus in the EK pilot group that the T&C have deteriorated drastically in the last years... not compare to regional or charters airlines. Lets compare apples with apples please.

Keep Discovering:ok:

[GMDS]

It works both ways, for pilots and the companies.

As has been said, for a certain category of fellow pilots the T&Cs might still be attractive, most certainly the prospect of bigger tools to move. However there is some experience and aquired training involved ...... and even companies like ours are suddenly confronted with what they recruit, it might reflect on more upgrade failures, as described on another thread.......
Don't quote me wrong, nothing against the individual aviator, but I ask again: Where is the lowest acceptable limit? The erosion of the T&Cs at EK led to attracting predominantly lower qualified pilots, and now they reap what has been sowed.
It might seem nice and attractive in the beginning but if the upgrade does not happen when these newbees expected it, they start complaining. However once they eventually passed it (with enough experience and training) they will realise that it is not as easy as it seems to work with nice, young and eager collegues who lack the basics for this kind of operation. And they will complain again .....

Once more: The quality and safety of operation, its smoothness and average requirement of training is to a huge extent dependant of the T&Cs offered for pilots and trainers. Not even the EK stingyness can alter that, it's like a natural law and trying to defy it just cost MORE money. There have been more than ample examples to prove this theory, it's not mine.

[5star]

For those who are filling their Excel spreadsheets and hoping to earn big money here ::E

Crewing actively monitors rosters over here. On several occasions, I have noticed that when crewing sees that one guy will not reach the monthly target (always 75 to 80 hours) and another guy is planned with BIG overtime than they do their magical trick..... In the middle of the month crewing simply takes away a trip from the overtime guy and transfers it to the other guy. Magic....This way both guys stay nicely below the overtime limit. Remember... EK management is more clever than you...

Since I joined >2 years ago I had exactly 1 overtime trip.

At present dhs/euro levels count on 4100 euros.
Guys who claim that an FO can earn on average 5500/month: :eek: Either they spend too much time in the Dubai sun or they did one ULR trip too much last month.
just my 1 Fills of advice.....

[GoreTex]

10 years in EK and did 3 months of overtime, so if you count overtime as a part of your salary good luck to you.

[L1011]

The Boeing vs Bus debate is futile for two reasons:
1. As a new joiner EK tells you what fleet you get on - no choice
2. The flying changes so much it is impossible to say what you will earn

As has been said before, if you have a reasonably stable job, in a place where you enjoy living, then STAY.

That always applied to the ME, but more so than ever these days.

[Internationalpilot]

Little longer im the company ....never went in overtime neither looking for it...prefer to live longer.
Average salary now 3800 to 4000 euros...that's it
I know bypass ratio... is the guy volunteering for open time..flying in days off...he is 31...and looks like 55...ohhh..but he is rich...ah ah ha.
330/340 flying a lot more..basically the opposite of what he told you...I don't know why.
Personal suggestion.... DON'T!!!

[Bypass ratio]

I have never worked a day off in EK and I have only been in overtime maybe 3 times. You sound a little jealous International Pilot:)

[scaglietti]

Bypass trust me nobody at EK is jealous over your 20 hours of "overtime". With the "Touch&Go's" that now constitute ULR here you definitely earned every fil.

Question: The original questioner wanted salary information in order to assist in a very important decision for him and probably his family. You responded by giving a windfall month (3 out of 16?!). Was that really helpful to our potential colleague?

What if that was what you had read on Prune 22 months ago and accepted the offer based on the mistaken belief that "overtime" was available every month? I suspect you would be somewhat dissapointed now having only been in it 3 out of 16 months.

Oh & BTW, in a debate, once you start taking it personally you've basically lost.

Scaglietti

[azamat69]

thanks for the info guys...it is important to me to get a gauge as to what sort of hours you guys are getting, where i am coming from i am averaging 90hours/month and making the move to EK is not based on financial gains as i would be going backwards coming to the sandpit!! Like alot of guys say everyone has there own reasons...

appreciate the info everyone,,

[BigGeordie]

What is absolutely crucial to understand is that you have no control over getting overtime or not. This is no bid option for "overtime" so if they company needs you to fly more you will get overtime. If they have plenty of pilots that month (:hmm:) you won't. You would be very, very foolish to include overtime in your salary calculations.

[disconnected]

Anyone who factors overtime into their reason for coming to EK would be making a grave and foolish mistake.


Overtime is not guaranteed. Statistically it occurs below 30% of the months.
It is highly unlikely during months including leave or sickness.
Overtime is actually paid at half the normal cost per hour of a pilot to EK. E.g. One is working for half pay.
The overtime threshold is likely to be manipulated in the near future. Plans are afoot to indirectly increase the threshold by 5% shortly thereby saving the company a pile of cash. (Don't ask...)
Overtime does not count toward Provident Fund, ERP or Bonuses.
Overtime is obviously paid in Dirhams. Its real value has dropped by 60% over the past 6 years.


If employment decisions are based on overtime, I suggest you go to a casio. Statistically you are far more likely to be a winner.

[porkandbrew]

Guys, I was so disheartened this morning.

I spoke with a friend who is an A321 FO with a major airline in Europe. As is common we brought up the salary subject. I found out that he makes 38% more than me. I am a captain since over 8 years in EK. He then went on to tell me that if he works one day off he can pocket an extra 20% of my basic pay...I realise that he has to pay taxes and accommodation, but nevertheless it is really hard to hear these things for me. On top of that he does a big fat ZERO night flights every month... I wish I could say the same.
A captain in his airline makes more than double what I make, and therfore a 40-50% tax doesn't really hurt that much.
So depressing...
Pork:{

[Cyberbird]

... there You go - it's the poor fact:

Emirates is paying well BELOW the industry standard by now!

Love it - or leave it then - and i'm sure a lot of resignations will go in -
after the profit-share is announced:E

rumours is around 40-45 pilots will abondon the sinkin' EK-ship!:yuk:

[halas]

That's OK, TCAS has built that into the numbers he quotes in Flight International....

http://http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321695

halas

[Marooned]

TCAS's numbers... the only ones he's looking out for is his own.

As for his article, let's unravel the 'Unrivaled package' ...

The package for pilots, says Stealey, is "unrivalled" in the region, and includes a profit-sharing scheme healthcare and accommodation - furnished or unfurnished villas for captains and first officers with families apartments for first officers without families. Pay extra for the family for health care, accommodation in short supply and sub-standard temporary accommodation will be used for several months prior to getting a villa in the massive EK only Silicon or Mirdif complexes. As for the profit share we will see how much that is really worth in a month or so but don't bank on it to make a vast difference to the salary and adjust it to $s devaluation since the last 'share'.

'Perks for pilots include being picked up from home in one of Emirates' fleet of silver Audi A4s and dropped off at the operations centre'... or you can drive yourself and fall asleep in your airbag after your ULR back to back 90 hour 'factored' month.

Although all pilots are based in Dubai and salaries paid in dirhams, they are also hedged against large movements in the pilot's home currency. OK then, how despite this 'hedging' our we 30-40% worse off than 5 to 6 years ago? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK!!! THAT is why we have found a 'niche' in North America because no one else can afford to come because of the 'unrivaled' $ based package.

Despite competition from other airlines and operators, and Emirates' ambitious growth plans, Stealey insists finding the right pilots is not yet a problem. "Because we are top of the tree and are dropping our experience requirements,, we are not suffering at the moment but we are TCAS and we will continue to do so if you really believe this PR BS," he says. "Although we need 18% more pilots next year", a problem he'll just dump on the training departments desk again.

EK are adjusting to the lowest common denominator; The USD.

If demographically TCAS (who has no influence anyway so we really mean TC) want US pilots to augment and replace experienced pilots in EK primarily because they are cheaper in the short term, he/they will regret it in the longer term.

[Sander]

Agree with International Pilot
We will ALL be dead in 40-50 years or so
How do you want to remember how you lived your lives at this prime time
The company will NEVER get the right number to stop overtime
It is a highly profitable plan
Do the MATH
80 hours of overtime pays how much compared to regular salary
consider the company also pay no extra
accommodation
school
holidays
sick leave
retirement air tickets benefit
provident fund
annual leave tickets
medicals
family medicals
dental
family dental
water
electricty (use less you are not there)
etc etc
for all the pilots they do not employ because people are willing do the overtime. Its a closely guarded secret.

overtime its a 80+% discount on what your time is really worth and taking away from the most valued years of your life

Like International Pilot - this is a great job without overtime

flying the extra 20? it will be sad for you at the end when you look back!

[5man]

It is mid April already and the noise level on payrise and bonus is a bit low in here. What is going on? Hmm maybe I am missing something..... :confused:

[Aussie]

:{Thats because most people probably done think 3% is worth talking about:{

[schismatic]

They won't announce the payrise until well into May despite the fact that this is the month we actually get it in.

They are watching the development of the American recession. They are currently making overtures to pilots from US carriers that have recently failed. The assessment of how many they may get will impact the salary increase for pilots.

Condition changes are about to be introduced either with or shortly following salary review. Some subtle and some not. All large "cost savers" which almost certainly means less for employees. I can't claim to know the details but do know they are coming.

HR is on a massive recruitment campaign at the moment in all areas.

Recession is a good time to take a swipe at salaries as we know once they are down they are very slow to appreciate in response to the economic environment so the benefit over years is massive.

[Alconguin Crusader]

All of us working at EK are severly underpaid. Compare a like position at any airline in the same seat and plane and it does not even come close. Then factor in Dubai's inflation and school fees and you are worse off than any first world operator.