Biggest aeroplane/most passengers on a ppl

[Sam Rutherford]

I would be interested to know which type aircraft would allow me to carry the most people (for fun) on my ppl?

Single engine, land, JAR ppl A

Exotic interesting, but also ones which might actually be rentable?!

Sorry, it's Sunday morning!

Sam.

[toolowtoofast]

AN-2?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ufimsky-Airlines/Antonov-An-2/1339352

PC12?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/RFDS-of-Australia/Pilatus-PC-12-45/1337882

[Mike Cross]

You can rent the AN2 at Popham although it's ususally done by a bunch of Pilots rather than an individual. We had it at Oaksey Park last year for the Luscombe Rally and a bunch of pilots spent over an hour poling up and down the Bristol Channel & Severn Valley.
http://www.europeanluscombes.org.uk/community/mkportal/modules/gallery/album/a_273.jpg

I'm told you need strong legs to fly it.

More details here. (http://www.an2club.info/)

Billredshoes on here is your man, use the Search to look for posts by him.

[mixture]

Might I suggest a multi rating ? :cool:


Anyhow, on the single front, how about the caravan ...

http://caravan.cessna.com/airline.chtml

Seats 12 in high density configuration (well, 13 if you're being a true PPL and not taking a co-pilot :E).

[KeyPilot]

Quite an interesting thread for a Sunday morning, however I am afraid some of the posters are a little off the mark; the PC12 and Caravan are both turboprops and therefore require a separate Type Rating, which is more-or-less predicated on having an IR and CPL, so whilst in theory it might be possible to fly these on a PPL in practice it isn't really.

Being realistic, I would have thought the answer to this would be to do a multi rating (I know the question said single, but the course is relatively inexpensive and unlike those above not that onerous for a typical PPL), which opens a few routes to fairly significant aircraft including the BN Islander (there are literally 1 or 2 in the UK you can hire as a PPL).

[Billredshoes]

Simple SEP 5.7 Kg = AN2 SEP 2 crew + 12 passengers. MAUW 5.5 Kg
PM if you would like to arrange a flight.

More here : http://www.an2club.info/ppl_flights.htm


A Happy bunch of Pilots and Friends after flying the AN2 :):):)





http://www.an2club.info/images/AN-2%20BPBBQ%202006.JPG
(http://www.an2club.info/ppl_flights.htm)

[vanHorck]

the link doesn t work

[coodem]

Its working for me

[2close]

As far as I can see from the ANO and JARs, whilst highly unlikely in reality, if you have sufficient resources you can fly anything on a PPL, provided you hold the relevant ratings.

The methodology is quite simple (apart from the first bit!):


Win the Euromillions after it's built up to £ 120,000,000

PPL and hour build to 70 hours PIC

Night Qualification

MEP Class Rating

Pass ATPL Theory

IR

MCC

Type Rating onto B-737, etc.


Pay for your mate to do the same and buy yourself a B-737 and the two of you whizz your other mates around the golf courses, beaches and bars of the Med. Share the direct costs only with them and you're perfectly legal.:cool:

And now for the reality check - it ain't going to happen!!!;)

If anyone knows or thinks any different, I'd be grateful for the heads up.

2close

[mixture]

2close,

Yes you are probably right, budget is usually the PPL limiting factor for most aircraft types.

However in terms of Messrs Boeing, Scarebus and the like, you'll find there's a minimum 2 type rated pilots required .... 2 Boeing Type rated people with MCC/IR et. al. just to fly a few friends around is kind of pushing most people's definition of a PPL ..:cool:

[Cobalt]

Not quite. Almost all jets and the larger TPs are only certifed as multi-pilot aeroplanes.

To even start the type rating course for a MPA you need, as you say, a multi-engine IR, MCC and you need to have passed the ATPL theory. See JAR-FCL 1.250. This makes a lot of sense because the you have no chance in a course like this if you haven't done, e.g., any of the Class A performance work...

So in theory you could get a type rating for a MPA on yout PPL and get around 15 hours CPL course...

And you could not fly it as PIC, as this requires an ATPL.

[Mike Cross]

And you're only allowed to cost-share up to a max of 4 seats IIRC.

[NJA]

You can carry up to 12 pax in your a/c as long as the weight doesn't exceed 5700kg. :) Correct me if I'm wrong! :)

[2close]

I think you'll find that an ATPL is only required if the flight is a Public Transport flight.

If the flight is purely private then 2 x suitably rated PPLs could undertake the flight.

Schedule 8 ANO says the privileges of a PPL are to act as PIC of ANY aeroplane included in Section XII of the PPL.

The chances of this happening are pretty remote but the point I'm making is that it is possible, as the regulations currently stand.

IIRC, in the old days (pulls up a sandbag and starts the lamp swinging) there were weight limits imposed on licences, 12,500lb for a PPL, but these were done away under JARs.

But I believe Mike Cross is right about the cost sharing - oh, bu**er, I'll just have to pay for the whole thing then!! ;)

[mixture]

And you're only allowed to cost-share up to a max of 4 seats IIRC.

You've opened up an interesting can of worms there ...:E

The rule appears to be :

(a) No more than four persons (including PIC) are carried
(b) PIC must may his proportionate share (e.g. 25% if 4)
(c) no information shall have been published or advertised prior to the commencement of the flight (except if a/c is owned by flying club, in which case it can be advertised in the premises of such a flying club).

The can of worms would materialise if you were to mix (c) with PPrune, for example ... :cool:

[radicalrabit]

Can you fly a Citation or a Jetstream 32 or B200 on a ppl or do you have to do the cpl/ir/mer /class etc ?

[mixture]

radicalrabit,

My guess would be over 5,700kg, so you would need 2 type rated pilots.

Otherwise ...see schedule 8 ANO
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051970.htm#sch8

(1) Subject to paragraph (2), the holder of a Private Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) shall be entitled to fly as pilot in command or co-pilot of an aeroplane of any of the types or classes specified or otherwise falling within an aircraft rating included in the licence.

[will5023]

Hi Sam, going back to origional question, rentable types,carry more than 4 and S.E.P.

Cherokee six, and family,RG etc, 6 people
Beech Bonanza A36, 6 people
Jodel D140c 5 people
Gipsyland Airvan 8 people.
AN2 12 people

I'm sure there are loads more but that is my experience so far hauling on a PPL.

Will.

[Arfur Feck-Sake]

If you had a MEP Rating, a DC3

[Cobalt]

I think you'll find that an ATPL is only required if the flight is a Public Transport flight.

If the flight is purely private then 2 x suitably rated PPLs could undertake the flight.

I stand corrected.

However, ATPL theory passes are required in any case to get the type rating.

And in practlice the TR is likely to be limited to co-pilot only.

The chances of this happening are pretty remote but the point I'm making is that it is possible, as the regulations currently stand.

Example how the FAA treats this: John Travolta has only a FAA PPL. He has a B-707 type rating, but the limitation "B-707 SIC privileges only" entered on his licence.

[foxmoth]

12,500lb for a PPL, but these were done away under JARs

No - Above that weight you could still do it but you had to do the type rating on each aircraft (as now), below that weight you could fly any single (or multi if you had the rating) as long as there was not a requirement for a type rating on that particular aircraft.

[nomorecatering]

John Travolta also has a Gulfstream 3 type rating and a 747-400 type rating done at Qantas.

In Oz, I believe you could fly a private 747 on a PPL as long as you had a type rating, multi engine endorsememt, turbine endorsement. NO IR required if you stay in VFR.

[BackPacker]

NO IR required if you stay in VFR.

Let me know when you start doing overhead joins in a 747. I'll come and watch.

[flyems]

You would in all likelyhood find that the limiting factor will be your ability to get insured for flying the heavy stuff.

According to flight tests someone capable of driving a C182 will be able to drive the new Cessna Mustang, getting an insurance company to CYA will be the tricky bit.

[Sam Rutherford]

How does this work in the AN2?

3 people pay 1/12 each, the pilot pays 9/12?
3 people plus pilot pay 1/4 each?

Looks like 12 or so is the max then so far (at 5500kg), that does leave a little over 2t spare, any other ideas?!

Sam.

[Mike Cross]

Cost sharing relates to Private Flights as defined in the ANO. It's an exemption that allows it to be a private Flight rather than Public Transport.

If it's Public Transport the limitation does not apply. Otherwise my 05:50 Easyjet departure from Gatwick to Geneva on Saturday could be run as a cost sharing Private Flight!

[chornedsnorkack]

Can you fly a Citation or a Jetstream 32 or B200 on a ppl or do you have to do the cpl/ir/mer /class etc ?

radicalrabit,

My guess would be over 5,700kg, so you would need 2 type rated pilots.


There are Citations designed under 5700 kg.

Can they be flown by PPL-s?