Flying more than 100h a month

[escobar]

With summer fast approaching I was wondering if any of you actually fly and log more than 100h a month? I fly commercially and have a share in a sep which i want to really get alot of use out of this summer. I have read in lasors that any a/c under 1670kgs is not countable towards duty hours so from what I believe I can fly a 152, which is under 1670kgs MTOW, for as much as I want per month? Am i correct?

thanks

[IO540]

I would check your airline regs too. I used to know one captain who would limit his spamcan flying because it added onto his duty hours.

[A and C]

In theory you are correct but as someone who in the summer is always flying over 90 hours a month you will find that your private aircraft usage drops somewhat.

This is not intentional, life just gets in the way of the flying.

[nosewheelfirst]

As long as you don't get paid for it its ok :ok:

[escobar]

Thank you for all the replies. [I] think you have all confirmed what I thought, in that if i am flying it effectivly under my ppl, ie not gettin paid for it, then i can fly for as many hours as i want. Agreed life may get in the way but hours=experience=more bars=more money

thanks

[airborne_artist]

hours=experience=more bars=more money

If you are already flying commercially (and at the rate of 100 hrs a month), I can't quite see how further hour-building on the simplest of aircraft is going to increase your pay/promotion prospects. Employers will only be interested in your multi-engine time, surely?

[Arfur Feck-Sake]

Further hour-building on a SEP aircraft can increase pay/promotion pospects.

For example, if an airline pilot meets all the requirements for unfreezing the ATPL except the 1500 TT requirement, SEP hours will count. Or if he meets all the requirements except 100 hours night, again, SEP hours will count. Many airlines offer increased pay and promotion on unfreezing the ATPL.

[S-Works]

At 100hrs a month that is not exactly a problem is it.......

[escobar]

Exactly right. Upon unfreezing my pay goes up, and secondly with 500h on type and 2500h there is always a chance of command. The second is purely down to my handling on an OPC or LPC but there is a much higher requirement for capts than FO's in my company, in actually fact they would rather have two captains flying together than a capt and a FO.

Just re-reading the replies, i'm currently flying nowhere near the 100h a month commercially, in fact thats my problem, i'm hardly flying at all, possibly 25-35 a month, which is why i want more hours

[S-Works]

I rather think you are deluding yourself if you think your GA flying will count towards anything with your company.

Promotion comes from within, time on type and demonstrating ability, team work and being a 'company man' not from 'hour building' in a spam can.

But don't take my word for it, head over to the airline sections and pose the same question.

[escobar]

having already posed the question to my company the answer was if you have the hours and are good enough you'll get promotion. I may or may not be good enough and thats down to me but if i had the hours i'd at least be given a shot

[S-Works]

Like I said ask in the airline forums the question of the guys that know the industry. But my personal view is that having the hours refers to your professional hours not burning holes in the sky in a spam can trying to circmvent the system.

Learning to walk before you run comes to mind......... ;)

[A and C]

Escobar has a point in that un-freezing the ATPL will bring in more money and the PIC time can help a little as most company's opp's manual (part A) will have a minimum time to get a command. This is usualy not a factor as most people will need to get the minimun time on a jet before they are ready for command.

However for some of the more gifted pilots a few more hours in the logbook might just give them enough hours in the logbook to get a command at the earlyest oportunity.

The thing that staying in touch with light aviation will do is keep your "hands on" flying skills sharp, this will become very valuble when the company puts you up for CAT C airfield training. Those who fly small aircraft take to the more demanding airfields with ease compared with guys who let the automatics do all the work.

[MIKECR]

escobar,

Not sure which company your with but most regional operators out there are desperate for people to fill the left seat. They just cant get enough captains. Eastern being a class example, theyve been advertising in flighglobal for months now but to no avail. The rest are all the same. Hence most of these companies prefer the ex FI guys who have 1000 hours instructing time, theyre quick command potential. Unfreeze the atpl and your laughing.

[escobar]

I got lucky/unlucky and got a job after only 4 months instructing, couple of turbines is better than a single piston. As I have said I want to be in the position to be able to be looked at for command. Whether or not I am good enough will be down to the company, but a green book and 2000-3000h would help immensly

[Human Factor]

not gettin paid for it

Remember the above also applies to "valuable consideration". Essentially, if you fly with no pay and, for example, get free or reduced rate hire in return, that still counts. How easy it is for anyone to prove is a different matter.

[S-Works]

I got lucky/unlucky and got a job after only 4 months instructing


:ugh: Gosh, how lucky you only had to 4 months of Instructing. A bit like parole eh?

I am sure your students got good value...... :uhoh:

[escobar]

Reson I don't post on prune is that no matter what you say somebody always has to come back and argue a point. If you actually read my post i said lucky/unlucky. Pay me 35k a year and i'd have stayed a fi as i had a great time, one of the reasons i still do it part time, but at about 10k a year with a loan of 35k and a spend on my fATPL and fi of about 55k then being a full time fi is not a good move. Why did i bother gettin my ir or mcc if i wanted to be a career fi? I gave my students everything i had, one of the resons i still keep in touch with some, rainy days i gave briefings for free, i'd stay late in order to get them through a mental block, i didn't get paid overtime. So i won't have anybody knocking my dedication to my students. I was lucky in that i got a break after only 4 months, a break which means i can live reasonably whilst paying back my loan. Hopefully in another year i'll be able to say i was lucky/unlucky to have only flown turbo props for 18 months. Not because I hate turbo props, in fact they are very enjoyable, prob hand fly more in a month than what i would in a year of jet operating, but due to the fact that i gave up a career paying 30k a year, took out lots of loans, and now have a career earning deficit of about 150k. As an fi i had monthly meetings with the bank manager as to why I was defaulting on my loans. Show me somebody who has a ir and mcc under 35 that seriously wants to be a career fi.

I thank everybody who gave me a sensible answer to my posts, once again i will go back to lurking. thanks

[Mungo Man]

Boxe-x said

At 100hrs a month that is not exactly a problem is it.......


Well actually yes it is. In order to get my ATPL unfrozen and therefore collect a significant payrise I had to 1)Meet all the hours requirements and 2)sit a skills test which can only be undertaken as part of the annual company LPC (licence profficiency test - basically a type rating and instrument rating renewal).

The catch is you have to have met all the hours requirements by the date you go to the simulator to do the LPC test.

In my case I had met all the requirements except the 100hrs night command time. I was however very close so I rented a warrior and flew a few hours of night circuits. This was I was able to avoid waiting another 12 months for the next chance to unfreeze my ATPL and get a payrise.

I was unlucky in that I only instructed for 12 months!! Best flying I ever did do!!:)

[Easy Ryder]

Bose X

Whats your problem?

I know escobar, you dunno his sitch - you seem to have the mindset he's at a proper airline and doing this to rush his career along. I happen to know where he is he'll be very lucky to top 200hrs a yr. And he aint workin for an airline in any sense.

He's lucky coz he got a TP job rather quick compared to others, unlucky coz he's hardly flying... not why any of us got into aviation.....


You need to chill and not start having a go at someone until you know all the facts and actually read the original post correctly.

[S-Works]

EasyRyder, after haven taken some time to translate your post into English I gather you think I have an issue with escobar?

I simply have the view that he may be trying to find a bend on a straight road.......

Good things come to those who wait.

[escobar]

A couple of examples as to why the aviation industry isn't a so called "straight road"

1st. With instructing experience and turbo prop experience I am not marketable to any airlines due to lack of experience. Why then do airlines take on integrated students with 200h?

2nd. With 1000h tt and instructing and turbo prop experience I am not marketable to airlines due to lack of experience. Why then do airlines take on 1500h instructors?

I have accepted that I am not marketable without a green book and am trying to get that green book. Whilst I agree in part with good things come to those who wait, do you know how annoying it is to see friends who were half way through a ppl when i was a fATPL, go integrated and get four engined jets straight out of flying school? For me everybody should have to work their way up the aviation industry either with instructing, para dropping, glider towing, the bCPL was a good thing in my eyes. I enjoy my job, I enjoy flying, and I wouldn't swap my career path but there comes a time when you have to make things happen for yourself

[S-Works]

I am not doubting your motivation or frustration.

You may well have friends who are in the big jets but they are no doubt low down the food chain and probably accept this fact. Working constantly towards improvement.

You have hit the nail on the head, you are not marketable because you do not have experience and burning holes in the sky will not give it you with respect to getting an airline job IMHO.

I merely remarked on this thread because it strikes me you are looking for shortcuts to your goal. You think that zapping around in a spam can to short cut your way to an ATPL is going to make you better at driving a people tube. That worries me. Ask yourself why the airlines take these 200hr integrated students? Because they don't need experience of flying light aircraft it is because these people have demonstrated that they will follow the rules and process. Flying the airliner is the easy bit, that get's taught in the sim, the hard part is the decision making process and judgement. That is learnt on the line.

Just food for thought.

[Easy Ryder]

Sorry bose i dont have that much time to post on pprune like you do, over 2700 posts to work on your english, very impressive. I bet you have ur Oxford dictionary next to you at all times. Great retort too btw (by the way). Guys like you and the spelling police have no real argument and reduce yourselves to correcting spelling/grammer to make yourself feel big/important. Oh i hope your not referring to moi as being low on the food chain... i'm knocking on the door of a command.... but i'm sure your a big wig at the flying club!

See i kinda have a life and job that takes me around the world. But hey i'll take ur advice when im next in the cruise for 9 hrs and practise hey?

Hay evry1 u dont neeed propa ingleesh 2 fly big airplains like meeeeee!! :E

I'm outta here... Peace

Good luck Pablo!

[escobar]

Whilst i agree that flying a 152 and flying an airliner are two different things, command decisions and actual hand flying skills are taught in the sep's. Flying an airliner is fine but if all systems went i'd much rather have a 1000h instructor sat next to me than a 200h integrated guy. I passed all aptiude test for an integrated school, however financially it wasn't viable for me. Min hour first time pass in my IR suggests i'm within the top 23% of pilots, I believe that was the first time pass rate when I did it, no idea how many of them did it in min hours. As afr as I am aware there isn't any more difficult exams for integrated students than modular.

[S-Works]

Well easyrider, please tell us the airline you work for so that we can avoid it. With an aggressive attitude like yours I would want to give it a wide berth. There is no place for ego or aggression in the cockpit and you seem to have a large dose of both. You also demonstrate admirably why there is such a gulf between airline and private pilots.

I also have a life and a job that takes me around the world. I would bet in better style and with greater flexibility than you...... :ok:


escobar, I have not questioned your ability of motivation. I understand how difficult the IR is, I passed mine in the minimum hours as well. Raw ability is not at question. Finding short cuts to an end goal was at question.

I would be perfectly happy sat behind a 200hr integrated student, knowing that they have been trained, (indoctrinated in fact) into following the rules and are subject to the same supervision and LPC as required of the guy with 1000hrs of Instructing. I have long held the view that a thousand hours in a spam can does not make for an airline pilot. I have several thousand hours in spam cans and do not think for one minute that would make me a good airline pilot.

[escobar]

I feel that we should end this debate here. Obviously we both differ in our views towards the aviation industry. I am well aware that with only a couple of hundred hours instructing I am a better pilot than I ever was during my training. I have no doubt that after training a 200h wonderkid is in a much better position than I was with 200h to undertake a sim and ultimately a left hand seat with an airline. I have been in two emergency situations during my time with captains, the first was with a capt who had not been an instructor and he almost fell to pieces, the second was with an ex instructor and he carried on as if nothing had happened, trouble shooting, analyising, monitoring. I have been in 10s of "apparent emergency situations with students" ones that I remember happening when i was a student with an instructor and the instructor calmly taking controls and sorting it. Now I am that instructor calmly taking controls, my capacity has increased. Its also obvious the capts who have been instructors and who haven't. Ones who haven't want to just fly, ones who have will impart their knowledge. I'm much happier flying with ex instructors.
I speak from the bottom of the food chain, however it is very easy to forget when flying commercially and with auto-pilots, that we are pilots and not cockpit monitors. My company has employed guys who will get command when they hit their 500h multi crew, even though they only have sep time,providing they are good enough. My whole point was that I want to be in the position to get a shot at command when i hit my 2500h, company mins. I'm not finding shortcuts, i'm playing the game. When people are paying for integrated courses, buying time on type, is it not them that are taking short cuts?

To conclude my question has been answered, and I thank all contributors, how this topic has managed to take such a digresion is normal for pprune. Petty digs and back stabbing seems to be rife in the aviation industry, and hence when its anonymous this is heightened. Bose-x, whilst I have valued your input, was there any real need to question my dedication to my students? The post was mis-read by you, or possibly taken out of context but it was a snide post to make on a topic which had nothing to do with instructing.

My question has been answered so if any mods are about can you please lock this topic now? Thanks

[S-Works]

If I read your post out of context with regard to Instructing then I apologise.

I am an Instructor myself an unfortunately come into contact all to often with the hours builders who are interested only in themselves and the hours they can accumulate for a 'proper' job. It does GA and themselves no justice.