Parachutes

[micromalc]

Forgive me if this question has been asked many times before but:
Why do all glider pilots wear a parachute and yet GA pilots seldom do?

[gaxan]

Generally, glider pilots fly very much closer to other gliders. It is quite a sight to be in a stack of gliders all circling in the same themal. Ridge soaring can also bring gliders into close proximity to each other.
Obviously the risk of collsion in these situations is much higher, and wearing parachutes make a lot of sense. Every year there are sucessfull bailouts after collisions and in 1999 after a lightning strike destroyed a K21 at Dunstable.

[FAAjon]

ditto the above, plus its a lot easier to get out a glider then the normal GA aircraft

[IFMU]

All true, and couple more reasons I think. At least in FAA terms, some argue that gliders are often flown 'aerobatically' with abrupt manuvers and steep turns. Also, the guys who compete in contests over here have to have chutes. When they are not competing they are setting up their gliders the same way anyway, so all aspects of their setup is familiar.

I'm not sure the chute will do you a lot of good on the ridge, as you tend to be a lot lower.

-- IFMU

[Them thar hills]

Hence the expression "plywood thermal"
:E

[tggzzz]

Q: "Why do all glider pilots wear a parachute"

A1: they don't, particularly those that are heavy (approaching 242lbs typically) and/or tall

A2: or -- as in my case -- it is so that it is easier to reach the rudder pedals

[gpn01]

Q: "Why do all glider pilots wear a parachute" ?

1 - Because they can

2 - Because they're supposed to - In the UK, the BGA Recommended Practice is that occupants of gliders operating from BGA sites should wear a servicable parachute "subject to the glider being fitted to accept the occupant(s) wearing parachutes".

My guess is the question could be turned around to "why don't powered aircraft pilots wear a parachute?". Typical answers being insufficient space in cockpit, aircraft not designed to cater for it, etc. Quite similar (& valid) answers in fact to "why don't gliders carry transponders?"

If you drive a car would you prefer it to be fitted with an airbag or not ? So, if your aircraft design would permit you to wear a 'chute wouldn't it make sense to ?

[jabberwok]

So, if your aircraft design would permit you to wear a 'chute wouldn't it make sense to ?

Interesting comment - I wonder how many civvy Chipmunk drivers wear chutes..

[mixture]

Why do all glider pilots wear a parachute and yet GA pilots seldom do?

Tell me micromalc, in the event of being involved in an incident requiring use of a chute, how do you propose getting out of your average single or multi in sufficient time ?

In a Warrior, for example, you would need to undo your restraints, then get from the left hand seat, to the right hand seat, open the door ...... if you have the average GA physique of being middle aged and slightly overweight, you would be better off using the time to give the wife a call to say you won't be home for dinner ! :cool:

If you're regularly doing aeros with advanced stuff like flat spins, then I certainly would see the potential attraction of wearing a chute ..... but for average GA excursions ..... I'm not so convinced .... if I wanted to wear a chute whenever I go flying, I would have joined the RAF, or become a test pilot ....:cool:

[mixture]

I've never had any desire to jump out of the back of a plane .....

But it strikes me from sites such as the following one that I came accross after a brief Google .... http://skydivingfatalities.info/search.asp?Category=MAL&Country=&Place=&State=TX

That it is a pointless activity carrying a shute if you are unable to start the deployment process at a sufficient altitude. Otherwise if your main fails, you could find yourself back at square one because you had insufficient height to deploy the reserve. Similarly, if your lines get tangled, you could find yourself with insufficient height to untangle.

As I said though, I've never done a jump .... so I'm welcoming corrections to this post from those who have.

[vabsie]

Isn't there a Cirrus aeroplane that actually has a chute sort of built in somehow?

perhaps a stupid question sorry if its not .. but thought i saw something like this in a mag.

s

[snapper1]

Don't know if this a Cirrus or not but it certainly had a parachute.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvJ4U6yaasg

[matspart3]

I'll be wearing one a fortnight today...!!!!

www.justgiving.com/darrenandrob

Too much money pledged now to back out!!!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

If you drive a car would you prefer it to be fitted with an airbag or not ?
Not, actually. I don't fancy having my glasses forced into my eyes by a deliberate explosion.

[Mark1234]

I'll keep the airbag.. in the event of an impact hard enough to set it off, the glasses are likely to be the least of my worries :ouch:

I'm left wondering why GA aircraft are designed with such cr*p access that you can't get in / out in a hurry. Don't fancy trying to exit a warrior in a hurry on the ground or in the air - AND the view out isn't that great either :sad: A few 2 seaters (Robins spring to mind) have somewhat better access and a nice view.. but I'd certainly take a parachute if practical when doing aeros. keeps yer bum warm too..

On a humorous note, a servicable parachute is (IIRC) the only legal *requirement* to fly a glider in cloud in the UK. Reckon that's telling :E

[planes49]

I fly a Yak52, have a parachute, but rarely wear it unless I'm up practicing spins/ stalls. It it supposed to be re-packed every 6months. If a wing or catastrophic failure occurred during aeros, I suspect G would prevent me from getting out. I am not going to jump out if I have an engine failure. The only reason i would jump would be if I was on fire! :O

[eharding]

We've done this to death on a recent thread. However, from the perspective of the aerobatic fraternity, I would again draw attention to Eddie Goggins' excellent article in the last Aerobatic News Review:

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/Journal_Nov_07.pdf#page=39

Some of you may recall his survival of a collision at very low level during the Aero GP in Malta a couple of years ago; the article describes not only the event itself, but the events of a number of years which led Eddie to use the sort of safety equipment which saved his life, and also the kind of attitude required for it to be of use in extreme circumstances - if you're not prepared to use every last option, and fight for every last chance, then you're probably right that a parachute won't save your life, because you'll have mentally talked yourself out of using the option a long time before.

I find Planes49's comments particularly worrying. The implication being that he would wear a parachute 'when practising spins or stalls', but not when otherwise flying aerobatics because the only risk he sees is catastrophic failure. For me, and any other competent aerobatic pilot I know, this combination of sentiments sets alarm bells ringing. Either you should be happy recovering from any spin mode the aircraft has to offer as a matter of course during normal aerobatics, or you should be prepared for the consequences. You've also posting looking for formation partners on another thread - but seem strangely reluctant when the subject of formal formation training is raised. If you don't have enough regard for your own safety to wear a well maintained parachute, then I have serious doubts for your regard for the safety of anyone else six feet off your wingtip. So I'll pass on the formation invite, thanks. In fact, you'll forgive me if I'm a little blunt, but it might be the best bit of advice you ever get. The Yak 52 isn't a difficult aircraft to fly - and no more difficult to operate than an Arrow. But once you go off at the deep end, it has an extremely unforgiving side that can and will kill you in short order without suitable training. Some accidents have been tragically unavoidable, but the majority have been tragically avoidable, and from an entirely selfish point of view every time some - probably charming, likeable and thoroughly nice - incompetent stuffs one in, killing himself and often some poor innocent in the back seat, it pushes my insurance premium up. So please have a long hard look at where you're going with this aircraft.

[BoeingBoy]

Why do glider pilots wear parachutes where GA pilots don't...???

Very simple.....They fasten their own wings on......we don't!

Think about it....:}

[Mark1234]

If a wing or catastrophic failure occurred during aeros, I suspect G would prevent me from getting out. I am not going to jump out if I have an engine failure. The only reason i would jump would be if I was on fire! :O

You may suspect right, but possibly wrong also - and you'd be a bit sick sat there waiting. What about locked controls, a spin that won't recover for some reason, etc.

There's a true story out there about some chap in a yak that had a wing failure, and lived by approaching inverted and rolling out at the last moment. Fairly sure he'd have jumped given the option.

I guess that's what I can't fathom.. we're almost always taught to have a plan B (and possibly C) in aviation.. so why limit your options?

[eharding]

There's a true story out there about some chap in a yak that had a wing failure, and lived by approaching inverted and rolling out at the last moment. Fairly sure he'd have jumped given the option.


That Yak was a Zlin, the pilot was Neil Williams, and the truth of the matter is that it is far better you have your name in very small letters at the base of an aerobatic trophy than in large letters at the top...

[Mark1234]

Ooops. Did mean to put an IIRC next to that 'yak' bit.. my powers of memory aren't that great! But the point still holds. Yours *and* mine :E

[ProfChrisReed]

From BoeingBoy Quote:
Why do glider pilots wear parachutes where GA pilots don't...???
Very simple.....They fasten their own wings on......we don't!

No cigar I'm afraid. If we don't put the wings on right, they tend to fall off as soon as we get airborne, and thus far too low to use a parachute!

The main reason has already been stated - a much higher risk of mid-air collisions, at least for gliders taking part in competitions (where a gaggle of 50 in the same thermal would not be unknown).

Outside competitions this risk is much lower, and when I started flying gliders 11 years ago the majority didn't wear parachutes. A few years later the norm switched rapidly, and now almost all do wear parachutes. It helps that most glider cockpits are designed for a parachute-wearing pilot, and thus difficult to make comfortable if you're not wearing one. On top of that, as almost every glider now has a parachute (they tend to go with the aircraft, not the pilot), it seems a bit foolish not to wear it - one would feel so silly trying to put in an express order on the way down, and a high-density foam seat cushion is not really an adequate substitute.

[planes49]

Ouch! I thought I was trying to say that a ppl pilot would probably not gain anything by wearing a parachute. You might have a slight chance of getting out of a Cessna but I doubt a PA 28. I have had training and have flown Chipmunk/Provost/ Hunter. Reading Gasil say, for the last five years, I think that perhaps one glider pilot parachuted out. Yak 52-- NIL. One third mechanical problems/landed safely,one third low level aeros, crashed and killed (often with rear seat pax), one third jammed controls, nobody got out.One of my associates was an Empire Test Pilot, and we have often discussed aero scenarios, ie inverted spinning. I don't take rear pax when I am playing.Oh, and I knew Neil Williams.

[eharding]

Agreed that a parachute is of little benefit to the occupants of the average GA touring aircraft. Aerobatic types designed with egress in mind are a different matter. You wouldn't condone keeping the seat pins in place in the JP or Hunter would you?. Still not clear why you would wear a parachute for intentional spinning, but not when an inadvertant spin is likely. Discussion of spin recovery is no substitute for practice - when was the last time you span the Yak inverted? (and as it happens, an associate of mine used to take his Cap 222 down to Boscombe for use by the school, but ceased to do so when it was damaged in the process....but I don't know if the handling pilot subsequently graduated). :hmm:

[RatherBeFlying]

The manual for many single seat gliders state that a parachute is part of the certification basis.

The CG arm for the pilot commonly assumes a parachute.

Gliders commonly specify minimum weights for the pilot and if you happen to be that light and are not wearing a parachute, the CG is too far back -- and if you do not pay careful attention to the CG the first time, you will find out very quickly when you lift off on tow:uhoh:

[northcave]

quoting mixture on the reliability and use of a chute at low altitudes...


Skydiving rigs are very different to emergency rigs. My skydiving main chute is packed for comfort in terminal velocity coditions. A reserve or a chute designed for emergencies only is packed for reliability and also sprint loaded to be effective in less than 500 ft. They have been know to often work in even less. The chances of a reserve or emergent chute failure or absolutly tiny. Like your literally more likely to get run over by bus.

Hope this helps some of u to make the leap :)

[eharding]

The chances of a reserve or emergent chute failure or absolutly tiny. Like your literally more likely to get run over by bus.


Don't tempt fate. Given my recent run of luck, I can see myself arriving in the middle of a field, monumentally winded, with some very nasty bruises from the parachute webbing, having departed some unexpectedly defunct airframe shortly beforehand, only to be flattened by a bus with brake failure ploughing through the field from a nearby road.

[Ken Wells]

told you; don't let Jock do the service!

[Ken Wells]

Ouch! I thought I was trying to say that a ppl pilot would probably not gain anything by wearing a parachute

I can remember not too long ago a privatley owned Provost had a seat malfunction, PAX fell out in an aerobatic manourve and deployed chute saving his life. Seem to remember the Pilot and Pax were brothers.

When I did Yak52 training in Russia in '93 first day was spent how to exit aircraft with chute.