UK experienced controller recruitment

[ollie_a]

As the title says... NATS is now recruiting experienced en route/approach controllers. See http://www.natscareers.co.uk/Vacancies.asp?v=90

[beamwidth]

So, any of you NATS types able to shed some light on the T&C's.

The website does not give many specifics, so from an EN-Route perspective...

Swanwick or Prestwick ?

How many positions ?

Permanent or contract ?

Are there Union issues ( existing transfer lists, seniority, etc ) ?

Rosters ?

Where do Direct Entries fit in on the payscale ?

Whats the downside ?

Answers to any or all, via this or PM would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance

BW

[SM4 Pirate]

What Beam said, but no PMs, spill the beans please.

[ock1f]

Lets have the low down and dirty--whats the story?

[Sammer30]

ok i'm guessing but probably not far away....

Swanwick but maybe Manchester (with a move to prestwick when manch does)

????? we are controllers down on last year and its only going to be busier

permanent

trying to keep pension....not sure what you mean by seniority? as for transfer lists if you are valid at a unit getting a move for anything less than an ill member of family....good luck

06.30-13.30 x2 ,13.30-22.00 x2 + 22.00-06.30 x2 or any combination of morning/afternoon spins x2 (mostly slip day if am spins) days off x4

at a guess pretty near, if not at, the bottom once valid...not sure when training (presumably pay scale can be seen on the internet)

i'm guessing pretty much the same issues the world over on this one but... nothing in particular, all in all pretty good company to work for once you are valid.

agian i'm not in hr or a position of power, just a lowly acto and these are my best guesses!

[beamwidth]

Thanks for that Sammer, some food for thought.

[rybber]

What about experienced, foreign APPROACH controllers?

I hold an ESARR5 license. The listing says Swanwick, but are there any openings in one of the London airports?

What's the payscale like?

Which airports would you serve, working as APP in Swanwick and what's the traffic load?

[Lakeland]

All NATS airports will be included - they are all short. There are several foreign ATCOs in the system here APC and AREA, european and others.
TC works LL, KK, SS annd GW. Traffic medium to heavy plus!

[JustaFew]

Is Manchester approach staying at Manch or relocating with area?

[Loxley]

Manch Approach staying at Manchester.

Last I heard, the 'desperate' units for staff on the airports side are Heathrow (apparently losing staff to the ME), Glasgow and Edinburgh. Therefore, expect postings to Southampton, Aberporth and Birmingham or some other such cock-up! :)

In seriousness though, apparently Heathrow, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Gatwick are all more short than others (happy to be corrected) so presumably that's where the recruits would go?

[rybber]

Ok, thanks for your response guys.

What's the pay like in the London area?
Where is TC for LL, KK, SS located?

Anything else you can shed light on will be appreciated, like general terms of employment, breaks, holidays etc?

[Roger That]

There's are probably opportunties at all 3 En-Route sites for experienced ATCOs (and remember at Prestwick, for those with the right tickets, that means Ocean too :ok:)

[45 before POL]

Rybber tc now located on south coast between southampton and portsmouth.
As for pay the scale starts at 51k including shift rising to over 85k. If you end up at heathrow tower same scale,, other airfields on a sliding scale below that.

[rybber]

45 before POL: How far will that pay get you in terms of living costs? Housing prices around London have a tendency to soar, so I have heard.

How are they coping with payrises in the ME, what is NATS doing to prevent people running off?

[2.5 miles]

Rybber

TC incorporates the approach radar for Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, London City and Biggin Hill. Previous speculative applicants (those who submitted applications ad hoc) were considered and mainly recruited for the new London LARS being provided from Farnborough (caution, positions were only being offered for approach work at Farnborough, in the London area, certainly until recently). Airfileds, particularly Heathrow, and less so, Gatwick need Aerodrome controllers.

Shift pattern 6 on 4 off 30(I think) days a/l, plus 8 public holidays.

From what I understand, the union are a little miffed, since consultation on this recruitment drive was somewhat brief! There are staff at regional units trying to get to centres and major airports, some trade off may be possible, but as usual I suspect that "business needs must come first".

Housing costs around London? House prices, expect to pay circa £500-600K for modest 4 bed house. South Coast Swanwick area not a lot different maybe 5-10% less. Prices are fairly stagnant/falling dependent on area sought. NATS pay figures, I believe fairly accurately indicated above. Don't expect the top whack, they will naturally try and get you on the cheap. Not sure what relocation they will offer you, if any. Should you proceed and get that far PM me.

Good Luck.
2.5

[MNT]

Its 28 days annual leave at the outset rising to 33 after 10 years although I think the increments start after 5 years but can't remember the exact details.

[1985]

28 days A/L from the start
30 days after 7 years
33 days after 10 years

[waldorf]

Any applicants been called for interview yet or received feedback from HR stating how long before the interview rounds would start?

[takemeaway]

Spoke to HR. Expect interviews in may/june

[Mr Red]

1985, isn't it

28 days
2 extra after 8 years
3 extra after 10

??

[Medium Flight]

I've been reading Nats website and it says one of the requirements is under 36 years of age!! :ooh:

I'm a British citizen working outside UK (non EU) and in mid 30s, and planning to apply for work in England in a few years time. I'll be 40 by then and have never worked in UK ATC before.

What are my chances? Is the age a hindrance? Go for it anyway?

Thanks guys.

[360BakTrak]

Is this for ab-initio or experienced controller? Probably worth applying anyway I would suggest. Don't ask, don't get and all that.

[360BakTrak]

There are allegedly a lot of applicants, hence the delay. Only heard that 3rd or 4th hand though.;)

[Gonzo]

Yep, that's what I've heard too.

[skodasfinesthour]

Yup, got e-mail through yesterday explaining that due to high number of applicants, they are currently undertaking a "paper sift" of CV's! HR said they would be in touch soon with more information......at this rate it could be christmas before anyone has moved across into the NATS fold!:mad:

[sr562]

Christmas is an optomistic guess, nothing moves quickly in NATS especially not when HR get involved. Christmas 2009 probably more realistic ;)

[BwatchGRUNT]

The house price was a little misleading.

4 bed houses away from the london commuter area start at around £330k and thats a new, 4 double bed, ensuite with garage etc.

Its not all doom and gloom on the cost of living front. I have a 15 mile 20 minute commute to work!

[chevvron]

Expect more vacancies in November 'cos that's when I retire and they'll need at least 3 to replace me!!!

[45 before POL]

3??? Blimey thats a lot of tea brews!

[niknak]

Are any airports in greater need than others for ATCOs than others and is there a choice for prospective employees? (he asked with more than a passing interest....;)).

[Gonzo]

Airport most in need..........have a guess Niknak ;)

I'm not sure how much choice an applicant would have. I hear we're getting first dibs on the applicants though.

[niknak]

Oh well, that's me buggered then...:E

[Henry'sCat]

I've been reading this thread with interest.

My situation is that I've applied 3 times to NATS and failed to get in. I've now moved to Australia, but been accepted by AsA for a trainee ATCO position as Tower.

They bond you over here for a 5 year period after you've qualified to the tune of $70k or approx GBP35k. I know for a fact I don't want to be in Australia long term, but reading this, it looks as though I'll struggle to get employment by NATS as an experienced controller.

How likely am I to gain employment from NATS in the future if I obtain 3-4 years experience over here? And also would NATS be likely to pay out my bond if I left early?

I'm actually considering not bothering to do the training if I can't be a controller in the UK eventually.

Any advice? I know I will get comments about not being good enough for UK, but I am for AsA, but the selection processes are VERY different.

[Gonzo]

Henry's Cat,

There are plenty of people who now work for NATS who either failed the selection process or the college training, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

[sr562]

Gonzo how desperate are you guys?? Im awaiting the decision from HR as to whether they will give me an ATCO post (currently assistant with a current ADI rating) but they're not quick. Just wondered as the longer I wait the more likely I will need to leave NATS or do an APC.

[Charlie23]

I've read the thread for a few weeks now - will NATS, or have NATS in the past, ever paid off a bond (when they pinch staff from Regional Airports)? Salary alone does not really stand up as an incentive compared to some bigger airfields/companies, although I accept that NATS are (apparently) a good company to work for!! Yes, I have a CV in - Just to test the water really!!:)

[heretostay]

Has anyone heard anything more since the e-mail from NATS which said they had a huge response and were doing the "paper sift" sent on 20th May?

It was 4 months ago since they placed the advert and I wonder just how short of ATCOs they must be if it is taking so long.

[Charlie23]

Nope - must be a slow old process!!! Nobody I know has heard a thing since the last 'sift' e-mail. Perhaps they have a few issues to resolve first.

[italiancars]

I received an email yesterday saying I had been successful during there papersift of CV's and if I could forward a scanned or post a photocopy of my license. Also cold I provide dates when I was available for an initial interview.

[heretostay]

Well done italiancars,

Hope interview goes well, hope to get one of my own soon!

[heretostay]

It would seem that not all of us were so lucky having just received the e-mail from the HR department.

It would be interesting to see how many experienced ATCOs NATS have taken on during this recruitment drive, it will also be interesting to see what ratings they have and also where they get posted off to.

For whatever reason they didn't want this current, available (with 1 months notice), un-scathed ADI/APP/APS ATCO, maybe it is because I’ve only ever worked OCAS? Or maybe they didn’t like the font my CV was written in!?!

Is all this talk about NATS units being short, true?

I hope I don't hear in a few months that they are short once again, I am off to Canada.

[Brian81]

They didn't want me either...

Im ex-NATS, ADI/APP, 26yrs old and ready for immediate start.

I used Tahoma size 11. Maybe the font thing was right?

Wish I was off to Canada... ;-)

[Scooby Don't]

It sounds as if NATS is only interested in ex-NATS people they chopped; not those who left of their own accord! Shooting themselves in the foot really, especially when ME salaries can approach the equivalent of UKP 120,000 p.a.

[Charlie23]

'Thank you for applying for the experienced ATCO advertisement for roles within NSL Airports.

I am writing to confirm to you that your application form will be held on file and that we will contact you directly as soon as any suitable vacancies arise.'

I said I was only prepared to work at Manch or Birmingham and got this reply. Does this mean no thanks or we'll get back to you?? I'm ADI APS OJTI LCE at my unit. Good luck anyone that gets the chance. Not ever so sure I would take it even if offered, but I like a challenge and it's nice to be asked. My CV had a picture - perhaps I am too ugly!!!! :8

[360BakTrak]

It's apparently a poorly worded e-mail. It means the process is still on-going and they will be in touch soon regarding the next stage in the process. It's not a 'you were un-successfull' message but another delay it would seem. Allegedly.:}

[055166k]

I would respectfully suggest that telling NATS HR where you will and won't work may not be the most sensible addition to any job application. NATS ATCO's are a mobile grade and should be prepared to go anywhere.
There are of course exceptions:
1. If you moan a lot
2. Friends in the right places
3. Spouse/partner preferential treatment
4. Management potential rising star
5. Compassionate reasons
It may be wise to get the job before laying down your posting requirements.
If your shorlist is only Manch/Brum then I wouldn't hold your breath!
Good luck anyway.

[Charlie23]

Thanks for the replies guys or gals. I actually put "I would be particularly interested in vacancies at ......." - so hopefully I did not upset the HR sifting team!!! Yes, I take the point about getting the job first, but I am happy where I am but still seeking new challenges. If they want experienced ATCO who can do the job, they will have to bend a little otherwise they will get the wrong people. Good luck everyone - does anybody know how many NATS are actually looking for??? Could be carnage at the usual trawling grounds!!!!

[throw a dyce]

If you don't mind Aberdeen,then that might help.Lots of people already in Nats want to work in Manch or Brum.:)

[bottom rung]

Aberdeen sounds like fun. How many controllers are needed to get to full strength?

[ZOOKER]

throw a dyce,
I believe there are also some already settled at Manch who wouid like to stay there! Perhaps these "experienced ATCOs" being recruited could be offered a posting to the Costa del Saltcoats in order to facilitate this?

[Roadrunner Once]

This is interesting. Has anybody been offered, or indeed heard of anyone, anywhere, being offered an interview for NSL/Airports? As far as I can find out, everyone has been sent the 'we'll keep your application on file' email. Have NATS gone cold feet on us? (NSL at least - I understand that NERL are interviewing APS-rated ACTOs, and italiancars didn't specify which branch of NATS he/she'd applied to).

[ZOOKER]

Ah, the Costa del Saltcoats. "Do not pass Go" ---- Go straight to Band 4! :}:}.

[heretostay]

This is interesting. Has anybody been offered, or indeed heard of anyone, anywhere, being offered an interview for NSL/Airports? As far as I can find out, everyone has been sent the 'we'll keep your application on file' email. Have NATS gone cold feet on us? (NSL at least - I understand that NERL are interviewing APS-rated ACTOs, and italiancars didn't specify which branch of NATS he/she'd applied to).


This is odd.

I met an old work collegaue for lunch today. Without giving away names or locations: 31 years old, 5 years as ADI, APS, OJTI and for what it’s worth within NATS, a Met Observer currently at a busy non-NATS unit in North West England. This person also applied to the same advert as I did it would seem and he got the same e-mail as I did.

So, Roadrunner Once, you might be onto something here. IIRC there were two NATS adverts at the same time, one was for airports and I am pretty sure the other was for either approach radar and area radar. Ok, fair enough they might be interviewing those who applied for the approach and area advert but what about the airports side of the operation i.e. no radar?

[Loxley]

- I understand that NERL are interviewing APS-rated ACTOs,

Possibly with the intention of sending them to TC at Swanwick to do LL/KK/SS etc Approach.

Out of interest, are the Approach guys at Swanwick employed by NSL or NERL?

[SilentHandover]

TC controllers at Swanwick are employed by NERL.

[Loxley]

Cheers for that SilentHandover,

Then presumably the future home for the APS controllers being interviewed by NERL is TC. Or Aberdeen Offshore :ok:

[ebenezer]

If they want experienced ATCOs who can do the job...

As regards Manchester, I think you might find it's just a wee bit more challenging than your average non-NATS 'regional' ATC unit!! Even current NATS ATCOs have to pass an operational assessment before being considered for this unit.

....they will have to bend a little otherwise they will get the wrong people

To quote the illustrious Captain Blackadder:

"Have you visited the Planet Earth recently...??" :rolleyes:

[Charlie23]

Quote
"Have you visited the Planet Earth recently...??"

Yes - and EGCC!!!!! :)

[ItchyFeet2]

Could anyone tell me, as objectively as possible please, what ScACC is like to work in / live near?

Work practices, social issues, salary structure, career development and other general info appreciated.

Thanks,

IF2

[BookEm]

Has anyone heard anything else? I`ve been invited to interview at Heathrow House but I`m still not sure which units the interview is for. I presume that if I`m successful then Nats will offer me wherever they fancy, subject practical assessments. Does anyone have any ideas where the vacancies are (its not the NERL advert I applied for by the way)

[Charlie23]

Me too - next week - who knows?? All will become clear I'm sure.

[takemeaway]

I have been invited for an interview too. Working at a major airport on the European mainland, with 5 years on my back as ADI/APS/RAD/TWR etc. HR said the interview was for Swanwick TC.

Anyone working there that want to share some info?

[neilmac]

I have just done a job course from Mil to Civilian life but run by high brow civilian recruitement company when I said NATS not available I was to old, to say they were shocked was an understatement. By law no company can age discriminate! HM Forces differnet rules, just want to know peoples views please??

NM

[berniecta]

Did an interview (don't know which level it would fit) on Friday at Prestwick. I've been told that is where tthe requirements for personnel are considering the expected move from the old to the new centre in less then 2 years.

[Gonzo]

Neilmac,

Plenty of threads about age limits for NATS. Suffice to say that for those with 'aviation experience' there are no age limits.

[ptenisnet]

I've been asked for an interview by telephone......
Anybody done/going to do one of those?

[chris_tivver]

I've done an interview by telephone before (not for NATS or ATC). Not sure if your question was specific or more general. If former then please ignore remainder

Usually used when the distance need to travel means that they want to be more sure before inviting you to a face to face.

They are tricky because you cannot get any feedback from body language (have you spoken long enough, too long, are you heading down wrong track etc).

Main thing is make sure you get the right environment for your end of interview: quiet, no interruptions, drink to refresh yourself, notepad if you want it. Have your CV etc in front of you so that you do not contradict it. have info on the intended company as wel in case you need to check

Have a few questions you want to ask written down on your pad

Because you cannot read body language, make sure that you understand the question fully. Ask "Did you mean" type questions

All IMHO naturally (and yes I did get offered the job when I had one)

[ptenisnet]

Thanks Chris,
You agree with advice on the internet, and sound encouraging

[1LS]

Hi all,

Do all ATCOs from other countries have to do an APC at Hurn before NATS allow them to do the Area course or are they allowed straight to Swanwick or Prestwick to commence OJT using there current license as previous experience.:)

[ptenisnet]

It's not too simple, I'm afraid. Depends a lot on whether or not you're from Europe.
look in CAP744 (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=1128), especially Appendix 1 para 4.4
Then again, maybe NATS steamrollers over CAA requirements sometimes, as they have clout.
(if you don't get the idioms in this, then you definitely need a UK course!)

[1LS]

Thanks ptenisnet,
I certainly don't have the money to get them to take a look at my training background.:rolleyes:

Regards,

1LS.

[Gonzo]

Further to my post above, it turns out the age limit of 36 for the NATS selection process (not the experienced ATCO programme) is fixed. There is no further dispensation for those with ATSA/Mil ATCO/pilot experience.