Advice for a civvy flying into a Mil airbase please

[youngskywalker]

Hi, I don't normally pop my head above the parapet on the mil' forum but i'm just after some information regarding landing a corporate Kingair into a military airbase (EGQS) in the next few weeks. I've never actually landed at a military base before and wondered if there are any different or unusual procedures I should be aware of, perhaps with the RT maybe? I have already been granted permission from the base and we have the required aircraft insurance, it's just me that needs educating!

[airborne_artist]

Don't forget that, despite being a civvy, you'll still have to go through the initiation ceremony :E

[ZH875]

Don't forget to tip the guy who puts the chocks in.....

[airborne_artist]

And since Lossie was originally a Royal Naval Air Station, you may get asked if you would like to see the golden rivet :\

[youngskywalker]

hmm, me thinks I will stay aboard the aircraft until the pax return, my co pilot is the chap for initiating! :E

I'm forgetting it used to be a naval base, is that why they have painted all the GR4's pink recently?:O

[ZH875]

And since Lossie was originally a Royal Naval Air Station

Lossie was originally an RAF station, it was not handed over to the Fleet Air Arm until 1946.

From Here (http://www.raf.mod.uk/raflossiemouth/aboutus/history.cfm)

Royal Air Force Lossiemouth was built during 1938 and 1939 with 15 Flying Training School forming in April 1939. The first aircraft to use Lossiemouth regularly were Oxfords and Harvards but, due to the location and good weather, many different types of aircraft were frequently diverted to the Station. In April 1940 the Station was handed over to Bomber Command and 20 Operational Training Unit was formed. Although mainly a training unit for Bomber crews during WWII, some operational raids were launched from Lossiemouth, the most important being 617 “The Dambusters” Squadron’s successful attack on the Tirpitz, pride of the German battle fleet, on 12 November 1944.

At the end of the hostilities the Station became a satellite unit of Milltown in Coastal Command, before being handed over to the Fleet Air Arm in 1946 and becoming HMS FULMAR, RNAS Lossiemouth. The Fleet Air Arm used Lossiemouth as a training station with pilots receiving their basic training here before moving to Culdrose for instrument training. The final stage of training, (deck-landing) was practised at Milltown, before students were allowed to land on HMS Theseus in the Moray Firth.

The Fleet Air Arm handed the Station back to the Royal Air Force on 28 September 1972


But Golden Rivet fans may still be lurking in the shadows.:eek:

[airborne_artist]

RT differences are well explained here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPIF69oy50g&feature=related)

[Lurking123]

Arrestor cables (I can't remember whether Lossie has any). They are normally about 1500ft from each threshold and, if my geriatric memory serves me correctly, a King Air needs to taxy over them rather slowly (ie don't plan of trampling them at any significant speed).

[Pure Pursuit]

Random!

Youngskywalker, perhaps you should ring Lossie ATC as they cover Kinloss & sh*t. They'll be able to tell you what to say & that, for real yeah...

Don't disrespect the SATCO, he'll clip your wings & sh*t & be totally random on your ass.

I'm sure somebody who is actually at work will be able to get you the number...

Best number I have is 01343 812121 (grabbed from the web site).

[youngskywalker]

Brilliant, keep them coming! I guess I should have expected this! :O

In the absence of any further information can I just join the circuit like the FJ mates do? Perhaps I'd best not if I want to keep my job! :(

Thanks for the number, I'll be sure to do that before I set off!

[GPMG]

Don't forget to request a 'fly by' and then when you've been denied, time one for the exact moment that the chap in the tower is about to drink some hot coffee.

Oh and it helps if your bi-curious about your wing man.

[airborne_artist]

It is normal as a visiting Captain to make a courtesy call on the Station CO. Make sure you have embossed (not printed) calling/business cards. Best to call his PA in advance so she/he can send the car to collect you from the tower.

[anotherthing]

If your passengers are anywhere near the Officers Mess, best to remind them it is considered rude if they do not ring the bell

[ZH875]

Best number I have is 01343 812121


SATCO is Ext 7414, ATC Switchboard/Enquiries is 7426 and Visiting Aircraft Servicing Flight control is 7936/7937

[Mr-Burns]

Youngskywalker,

If I were you I'd get hold of a military Low Flying Chart. You'll notice lots of small red squares and red diamonds - these mark the arrival and approach route into military airfields. The squares have to be flown over low and the diamonds really low. Just join as many up as you can and you won't go far wrong. Take my advice and I guarantee the Station Commander will meet you personally on your arrival. Good Luck.

Mr B

[Strictly Jungly]

Pure Pursuit said:

"Random!

Youngskywalker, perhaps you should ring Lossie ATC as they cover Kinloss & sh*t. They'll be able to tell you what to say & that, for real yeah...

Don't disrespect the SATCO, he'll clip your wings & sh*t & be totally random on your ass.

I'm sure somebody who is actually at work will be able to get you the number...

Best number I have is 01343 812121 (grabbed from the web site)."

Goodness Me!!!!! I really need to get down with the kids in the 'hood if they all talk this cak!!!!!!!

That sounds like another language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or am I just getting old.......??

[GPMG]

SJ try this

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=298090&highlight=armstrong+miller

There are several sketches, all brilliant.

[Madbob]

Youngskywalker

Don't forget you'll be expected to do a "run in and break" and mimic the other fighter traffic in the circuit. (I'm not sure if "fighter" applies to the F3 Tornado, more a term I associate with the F3 and F6 Lightning, but times are changing and the Typhoon is a worthy "F" candidate!:ok:)

In the case of a KingAir a RIAB will no doubt mean a VNE dive from height (not altitude as you be using QFE:ok:, not QHN) starting from a position on the extended centreline of the runway in use aiming to arrive at 500 feet, abeam the tower, at vmax followed by a "break" involving a max G climbing turn (throttle closed, airbrakes out) to level at 1,000 ft onto "downwind"; this gets you decelerating nicely to flap and gear limiting speeds, so you can dirty up - followed by a continuous decending turn to finals. Get it right and you'll just get the wings level as you touchdown "on the numbers", not the piano keys mind - the're slippery when wet!

As mentioned before, avoid the cables, they don't like props and do bounce when trampled.....:bored:.

Much more fun than "square" Civvy circuits - and you'll get down quicker too.

MB

[youngskywalker]

Excellent stuff, I'll be sure to give the station CO a ring when I arrive, I expect he will send out the staff car to meet me and somebody to polish my shoes? After all, a chap ought to look smart infront of the men.

No need to dive for vne in the old King Air, it will easily get there in level flight, 240kts to a 2 mile final is fairly norm :E

[A and C]

Perhaps this would be of more practical help!

www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad_webssl26.pdf

[youngskywalker]

At last! Many thanks, just what I was looking for!

[artyhug]

Well you learn something new everyday! Followed the link out of curiosity and discovered prefixing your callsign with TYRO will indicate to ATC that you would like them to S P E A K - S L O W L Y - A N D - C L E A R L Y to you...

Now would that work with the Septics on OPs I wonder......

[airborne_artist]

And this gem:

"In order to consider the request, certain information is usually needed, so be ready to give the following:
• Pilot’s name (and those of all passengers) (frequent visitors may require security clearance)
• Aircraft type and registration
• Aerodrome of departure
• Estimated time of arrival at the MATZ (if applicable) or ATZ boundary
• Intended time of departure from the military aerodrome
• Reason for the visit (appointment in nearby town, visit friends etc)

[davejb]

Who's staish there now?
At the time the last TV prog about being a steely eyed killer came out it was Russ Torbet - if it still is then let me know, as I went through NCO training with Russ I'll let you know about the secret 6FTS handshake and so forth. (I like to think we both got on pretty well, after 23 years I was an FS and Russ had gone from Sgt to Air Chief Commodore with chocolate , icing, and silver bells or similar).

Otherwise as per previous advice barring the navy guff - ignore anything to do with naval tradition, flying low over Culbin on the KSS approach is quite sufficient to alert those indulging in equitation (lower the better), followed by a run and break the wrong way up KSS 26 before rolling out over Lossie - let the G pump the U/C down as you roll and pull, it's a style issue.

The traditional greeting, when the SDO arrives, is lifted directly from 'Blazing Saddles' by the way - 'Where are de white women at?' is considered perfectly acceptable north of the border.

Hope this helps overcome those initial protocol questions.

Dave

(Or you could just land, taxy where ATC tell you to, and put a thankyou on the end of your closedown call - which is how the wimpsdo it).

Edited, as ever, for spelingew

[ZH875]

Who's staish there now?

Group Captain A Monkman DFC ADC MA BA RAF according to this (http://www.raf.mod.uk/raflossiemouth/)

[davejb]

Hmm,
he's safe then - wasn't even in the boy scouts with that chap...
Most of the people I served with are easy to spot, they have a sort of nervous twitch...dunno why...

[Focks 2]

But Golden Rivet fans may still be lurking in the shadows.:eek:

Hmm, I read that as 'showers.' :uhoh:

[Ops and Mops]

Welcome back from holiday youngskywalker.

Buy me that coffee you promised and I can give you the lowdown from a similar perspective to yours! (No Golden Rivets in sight).

Ops
:ok:

[youngskywalker]

The holiday was too short, the plane has been in maintenance for ages, ever since I got back! Suits me though as the weather in Glasgow was a bit challenging for my first week in the left seat, with little or no sign of improvement! I'm sure I could fit in a coffee sometime, give me a ring!

P.S Or better still you can come and keep me right when I blat into the Lossie zone at 240kts with no clue what to do next...:ok:

[Senior Pilot]

Just check the Wardroom roof, would you? It's only 33 years since "Fly Navy" was inscribed as a parting gift, the new residents might not have noticed yet :p

[parabellum]

Make sure you know the VHF R/T frequencies etc. as they probably use UHF as their normal means of communication, 122.1 used to be NATO standard but that could have long gone. You may be asked for your landing fees too, unless your company has an agreement, years ago Lynham always wanted cash!

[sycamore]

You could of course go via the ABZ CTA,and give TAD a wave!Otherwise, do as everyone suggests, wear your 4 gold rings,and a nice shiny hat ,hire one for the day; a bag of small trinkets would help `smooth` the way,including beads,sweets,combs,little coffee sachets,no cream/milk, they drink it straight from goats, and perhaps a newspaper, even a mirror- check your hair and eye-shadow,and then give it to the `Chief`...be careful,he may want to `rub-noses`,but don`t take offence !A suitable guard should be employed ,otherwise you might find the a/c has been `bricked` to keep the ones at Cranwell flying, and keep your eyes peeled for the Lighthouse,it may be camouflaged !!!!!! Oh, and if they should offer you a local `brew` called a `dram` it would be discourteous not to drink several...that way you will avoid the offer of a `local hen`...your return flight should be truly enjoyable, for you ,if not your pax !!! Have a safe trip..S

[Ops and Mops]

Or better still you can come and keep me right when I blat into the Lossie zone at 240kts with no clue what to do next...

I like the way you are thinking! Expect a phonecall!

[parabellum]

I would have thought that had you 'blatted' into to the Lossie CTZ at 240kts they would have assumed you were rotary?;)

[Op_Twenty]

Tornado's will join at 400kts into the visual circuit so keep eyes out and there are no low breaks at Lossie due to bird hazards and local issues. The Staish is the ex-boss of 617 Sqn and the old mess was torn down 10 years back and a new one built. Lossie is a fantastic place and I'm sure you'll find their hospitality to your liking. Have a good time.

[Strictly Jungly]

GPMG,
Many thanks for those links...............brilliant. All is clear now!!!

[TMJ]

Just check the Wardroom roof, would you? It's only 33 years since "Fly Navy" was inscribed as a parting gift, the new residents might not have noticed yet :p

Actually it was noticed a few years back and the whole bulding was knocked down; can't have that sort of heresy polluting the place after all...

[airborne_artist]

Actually it was noticed a few years back and the whole bulding was knocked down

Typical MoD answer to a problem that isn't important - chuck money at it. They could have just got Wee Jock in to replace a few tiles, or put the pressure washer over the roof ;)

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Lucky he (Lossi Staish) is now 'Visible'........ for some years Mr Monkman wasn't so.....

But that never happened, and Roswell is true and Nu Labour will deliver.......


Advo

[jumpseater]

A&C

Thanks for that link, as somone who hopes to get his tower civvy ATC 'wings' (my preffered career choice:E ), it was very interesting to read.

For mil pilots flying to civvy airfields the initial run and break is not taught as part of the civvy ATC syllabus:=, therefore if you turn up and shout 'Inititials old chep!' don't be surprised if the controller says something like 'er juliet bravo' and may not have a scooby where you are!

Seriously though it's worth bearing in mind that if its a civvy unit that does not have regular mil visitors, an initials call may not be expected or responded to how you 'normally' expect it to be.

js