Network Jet

[yowie]

Hi all,
Heard that Network have an F100 all shined up on their tarmac. Any when,where,how,why etc:8

[topend3]

first of 2 they will take delivery of, i believe to use to nifty and woodie woodie...to be registered NHO and NHP...

[yowie]

TE3,
On their AOC or through a contractor?

[Ref + 10]

topend. I heard that the second is coming soon and that they have a third that they are getting brought over mid to late this year.

yowie. I believe that is to be operated by them on their AOC.

[yowie]

Thanks REF,
Impressive to say the least! Any word on T&C's for the jet jockeys':)

[topend3]

they must have some more work in the pipeline then as i would not have thought they would be able to keep 3 F100's fully utilised. do you know if they will retire any of the brasilia's? i guess theres always work for when XR have a breakdown which is quite common...

[yowie]

TE3,
Yeah but hardly enough to justify a lease,but sounds a bit more than YLST YWME,without adding the YPPD,if you know what I mean:\

[Monopole]

No lease, they are owned.......

T&C better then Alliance in some ways not as good in others. All depends on which side of the coin you are looking. Time will tell though as it is a new [jet] operation yet to start.....

No direct entry onto the 100's (unless you have bucket loads of time and they need you as a captain when the next arrives).....

[topend3]

get with it beaver, the thread is about network, not skippers...

[Stationair8]

Good to see another operator move into jets.

[D'pirate]

Monopole - where have they found the F100 expertise to launch a high capacity AOC? I'm not interested from my own point of view, just curious, as there aren't that many Aussie F100 pilots who are not already (more) gainfully occupied.

[Skystar320]

The ferry flight should have been a give-away! I believe [dont quote me] that the aircraft are operated on a wet lease agreement from Air Berlin [where the FK100's come from] and these aircraft will be purchased / leased [pretty sure these aircraft will be leased] Currently values for that type of aircraft are around US$4million


I thought only two FK100's?

[Section28- BE]

Ex the Register- is owned not leased:

VH NHP
Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-retractable landing gear
2 Turbofan engines
Manufacturer: FOKKER B.V.
Model: F28 MK 0100
Serial number: 11399
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 19 February 2008
Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 February 2008
OSNET JETS PTY LTD
PO Box 136
BELMONT WA 6984
AUSTRALIA
Registered operator as of 19 February 2008
NETWORK AVIATION PTY LTD
PO Box 136
BELMONT WA 6984
AUSTRALIA

[Skystar320]

Registration holder as of 19 February 2008
OSNET JETS PTY LTD


Who are these guys then?

[dreamjob]

Maybe a separate business name for all the jets they are getting?! :}

[Skystar320]

Doubtful as they are two Pty Ltd business. If they did that they would make it a company under the banner of Network Aviation.

Anway, did they advertised for Fokker F100 captains?

I dont think so, me thinks they have a wet lease agreement with a carrier to supply F100 flight crew

[Monopole]

Skystar, well you thinks wrong.

They are owned not least. The accent on the ferry flight was the ferry pilot from Southern Cross Aviation.

Network Aviation is only a trading name

They also have experienced Fokker 100 Check and training captains on the books and the other captains are very high jet time experienced pilots.

There was no internal progression from the Braz to F100 command.

[Skystar320]

Well, good on them

Monople, then tell me why the aircraft are registered to OSNET JETS PTY LTD and not NETWORK AVIATION PTY LTD as they are operated by.

I cannot seem to recall them advertising for Fokker F100 pilots on engineer's from my memory?

Regards
SS320

[Skystar320]

Sorry Monopole forgot to pick this up.

Network Aviation is only a trading name Okay if that is the case then why is the company a PTY LTD company? if the actual owner is xxxx pty ltd?

Most business that have a pty ltd is say xxxx pty ltd trading as Skystar Aviation.


Or am I thinking too much to this?

[Section28- BE]

Check the PO Box address for each company- not uncommon to put Capital Assets in an entity other than the trading company for all sorts of reasons- in my experience. ;)

Beyond the postal address- given it is not a "known major" leasing company I'd say its a fair bet that they are owned- which of course does not preclude them being leased from one into the other, pending how the relationship is structured- not that that is anyone's concern!!!!!! :cool:


Registration holder as of 19 February 2008
OSNET JETS PTY LTD
PO Box 136
BELMONT WA 6984
AUSTRALIA
Registered operator as of 19 February 2008
NETWORK AVIATION PTY LTD
PO Box 136
BELMONT WA 6984
AUSTRALIA

[Skystar320]

I can see that alright thanks, though wonder who will need glasses?


P.S you can have multiple companies operating from the same postal box!

[XRlent100]

Believe the Oswal family who own a mjority of Burrup Fertaliser's in Karratha also have a stake in the ownership. They also own VH-OSW a GIV, maybe have a look at that and see who the rego holder is. Maybe Newtwork combined with the Oswal's have started up a company called OSNETS. Makes sense OS for OSwal and NET for Network.

Cheers
XR

[XRlent100]

P.S. Skystar, still waiting on the details of that F50 contract job you had going. Was hoping to pass it onto the troops.

:ok:

[Skystar320]

I got shafted mate............. They went with another company to supply pilots and I got a consulting role!

[Skystar320]

VH OSW

Power Driven Aeroplane with tricycle-retractable landing gear
2 Turbofan engines

Manufacturer: GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE CORP
Model: G-IV
Serial number: 1441
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 19 September 2007

Full Registration
Registration holder as of 19 September 2007

GARUDA AVIATION PTY LTD

Level 8
225 St Georges Terrace
PERTH WA 6000
AUSTRALIA

Registered operator as of 19 September 2007

AVWEST PTY LTD

PO Box 466
COTTESLOE WA 6911
AUSTRALIA

[Dog One]

Off the thread a wee bit, but, does any one know how Airnorth are travelling on the DN - KU - PH service? I see QF are increasing seat capacity on their direct PH - DN route. Are Skywest still operating to DN direct or via BRM?

[westausatc]

Dog,

Haven't noticed an increase in QF capacity PH - DN. Still using 737-800s for the once a day flight like they have the last four years or so. Not sure where you have your info from...

As for the F100s, they go up north regularly but as BRM is in BNs FIR, our little computer down here in ML knows nothing about what happens up there after BRM. As for F100s flying PH - DN, haven't seen one yet.

As for the topic, can't these companies get some aircraft with decent performance? Like the jungle jets? Imagine the acquistion costs are what's stopping them, but argh!, can't handle more F100s - almost as bad as more F50s!

[badgerspade]

Sounds like the place to be... really :ugh:
I'd guess the new company will be a risk minimisation deal. Have they got the AOC yet? I heard they have some pretty tough conditions in the pilot contracts: like a "stand-down clause" where the crew can be stood down for up to a month without pay for pretty much anything the company decides (lack of work, engineering reasons etc)... lattest rumor is that the 100 on the ramp won't be flying for a while due to CASA maintenance and they are putting a couple of the new endorsed F/O's back on the brazilia to make ends meet... sounds a great advertisement for cutting costs... GA never really changes :ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

can't handle more F100s - almost as bad as more F50s
Those bl@@dy little F@kkers!

[Dog One]

Westausatc

NT Airports Media Release 14th March 2008 details additional services by QF to both Darwin and Alice Springs. Some of the additional services include

1. 2 additional Perth Darwin services with 1 starting in April and 1 in June.
2. 4 additional Sydney Darwin services starting in June
3. Upgrade AD - DN services from 737 to 767
4. 3 additional CS - DN services
5. 3 additional AS - DN
6. 3 additional SY - AS
7. 1 additional BN - AS

ATC should be able to handle 2 extra 737 flights. Interesting your comments re the F100 and the E170. What makes the E170 better from an ATC point of view? Not having a go, just interested from a pilot point of view.

[Ralph the Bong]

I heard from a mate that used to work at Skywest that it is SOP to reduce speed below 160 kts by 10 Nm to run. Yes, that's right; less than 160 by 10Nm.:uhoh:

That, I imagine, would be an ATC nightmare as other jets approach the field at 190-210 kts at 10Nm. Apparently this stems from the problems that Skywest had with introducing the type in the first place.

[XRlent100]

Ralph the Bong,

That mate of yours is totally wrong. There is NO SOP stating we must be below 160kts by 10nm.

In fact we had a guy push it at 310kts to Haigh the other day.
Note: he was down to 2500' by about 6 miles HAIGH though.

XR

[Ralph the Bong]

That must have been bloody uncomfortable for the passengers, though.

Isn't/wasn't the SOP Green Dot-20kts/Flaps 10 by 10Nm to run? Wouldn't that equate to about 160Kts?

My mate showed me this part of your ops. manual for a laugh.

[yowie]

WAA,
Also curious why the JJ better from ATC point of view? They where hardly pressed for performance but nothing is really allowed to perform, especially on arrival,over there:cool:

[topend3]

skywest have never ops to darwin direct. it has always been via broome.

i noticed airnorth advertising their perth service in the west on saturday, would be interested to know what the loadings are like.

[Skystar320]

Network Aviation doesnt have FK100 certificate. Just cement my thoughts that they are leased, WET LEASE

[Ref + 10]

Your posts interest me Skystar.

What is to say that Network aren't mostly through the process of gettting the 100 on their AOC? They are no different than AirNorth were a year ago. You probably had a bit to say about that too knowing you... Actually, I seem to remember Topend having a stouch with a known XR hater. Are you the Network equivalent?

You seem to be highly sceptical of everyone and everything around the Perth airfield. Do you think that the interested parties in "Osnet" would actually get an aircraft parked on the apron without a plan of attack to get it flying?

Surely LE couldn't have convinced (allegedly, unless there has been a press release I haven't read) such a wealthy businessman to invest in a program without convincing that person that he could deliver.

As for your insistence on a wet lease, again, why? Enough money to cover a short term loss can be far outweighed by a long term gain. If you have the money and the faith then why not take the punt?

[XRlent100]

Skystar,

IT'S NOT A WET LEASE. Just ask the 6 or so Network pilot's who have just been or are in Amsterdam at the moment doing their endorsements........

[Monopole]

Skystar you do not know as much as you think you do :ugh:

I will say it again THE AIRCRAFT ARE OWNED. The captains have been employed and Bras crew have been trained as F/Os.

As to your previous question regarding two differant companies, I cant answer. I am not a buisness person and nor do I pretend to be. Suffice to say that LE would have it stitch up in such a way that if one operation (either E120 or F100) went tits, up it would not effect the other.

I will not say anymore on here, it is not my place. A press release will be out shortly, there are no secrets, and you will be able to put your all knowing tail between your legs and hide.


Mono

[Brasilian Bird]

Slightly OT, but yes, XR have gone from Darwin to Perth direct... not on the schedule but it has happened once or twice...

Interesting that Network are said to be getting 3 of the Fokkers... getting a little crowded in Perth again isn't it? :p

Then again if the rumours about OzJet are true, maybe Network have their sights on poaching some more work..?

[Stationair8]

Who gives a toss whether Network lease it, buy it or steal it or park out the front of their hangar and use it as a brothel.

It just means that their will be more jet jobs for people to progress too.

Good on the Bras crew for getting a go at the F100 as FO's.

Gee once upon a time only the great Skygods at Qantas, TAA, Ansett or RAAF could operate one of those jet thingies, and now look at every man and his dog operates the bloody things and into airports without ATC, radar or ILS's.

[XRlent100]

Whats the latest with Network Aviation and their F100's? Don't seem to be doing much flying. I heard they may have some issues with fuel in Nifty and are looking at flying via Gero as Meeka and Newman won't let them stop there. Meeka due pavement strength and Newman because of ramp congestion.

[Skystar320]

I heard that as well as other things, apparently the move into Jet operations hasnt gone too well and have resulted in alot of $$$$$

Wish them all a sucess in getting the op's up and running

[Capn Bloggs]

and have resulted in alot of $$$$$
Isn't that the idea? :E

[Skystar320]

no meaning it's costing them too much!

[Monopole]

Skystar, I think I said it else where, but the time frame in the start-up may have been a bit ambitious. The problems were no more then what would of been expected in a high cap. AOC and proving flight...

XRlent, 4 flights a week was all that was originally planned at first. as for the Meeka Newman thing, I dont know. I heard Meeka was only aloud to be used once a week.

[Skystar320]

Skystar, I think I said it else where, but the time frame in the start-up may have been a bit ambitious. The problems were no more then what would of been expected in a high cap. AOC and proving flight...

Good on them for getting the jet's as quickly as they did..........

[XRlent100]

Heard NHO into Nifty this afternoon so looks like things are happening.

[topend3]

stopped for fuel in newman this morning, no ramp congestion and not likely to be in the future there either as the extension is almost complete that will open up 3 x additional jet bays for up to B737-800, and a new taxiway...though they did call the ground handlers 2 hours before arrival to make sure they had F100 stairs so not 100% organised...

[Ref + 10]

Glad to hear it is in the air and making some money for the boys and girls there.

[Skystar320]

Does the rule out Network Jet's B737-300's?

[Ref + 10]

Did anyone tell Nifty yet that a 737 would never have to stop at Newman and could carry 30 odd more pax?? :E

[CASR139]

Ref +10 - its a bit more complicated than that. One of the factors in choosing the F100 has been the difference in aerodrome requirements for a code 3C aircraft compared to a 4C. But I'm sure that is only a small part of the picture too.

[Skystar320]

Its all about the interia, the interia

[XRlent100]

Whose F100 stairs did they use in YNWN? or were they generic stairs owned by Newman Airport?

[Skystar320]

havnt they got internal airstairs???????????

[topend3]

the F100 stairs at Newman Airport that the ground handler uses for the F100's like FNY with no airstairs...

[Ref + 10]

CASR139. Yeah, they knew that and did a whole bunch of work including getting Boeing over from Seattle as Boeing marketed the 73 as a 3C aeroplane. By the way, the 717 is too, but only with the chipped up engines (I believe it's a small mod taking the thrust up to 20,000lbs) and CASA approved a reduced max take off weight to comply with 3C aerodromes.

They also approved dual operations whereby operations between 4C aerodromes were allowed at the max certified weights. The only restriction basically said that they had to comply with the lower certified weights of the most restricting runway that they were operating from or to.


As to whether NJS have used this info or whether their engines are chipped up, I have no idea.

Cost was a big factor but too, as always, but I have been led to belive that a big part of that was mis-information fed to the client by competitors with smaller jet aircraft with not much to do. Hence, F100.

[Skystar320]

There is approx US$3million between the outright purchase of an early model FK100 & a B737-300

FK100 = US$3.75mill [1988 model]
B737-300 = US$7million [1989 model]

[flyon dawall]

Apparently the not too short of a quid SQ from skippers met with Networks CEO proposing some joint venture / arrangement to get the shinny dust collectors airborne; not too sure of all the details but thats the jist......

[Monopole]

Not likely

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Flyon,

Puff puff then pass to the left, what ever you're smoking, I'll have some.

[Tiger 77]

Does anyone know why Network has been x-hiring a caribou regularly over the past few weeks to cover some Bras flights? Surely there are more suitable aircraft available on the field? Apparently it took 7 hours to get up to Nifty!

Also heard a rumour that the Kingairs will be returning to the fleet. Seems they were withdrawn a little prematurely :ok:

Cheers,

Tiger

[Monopole]

Why Tiger77, are you upset that they didn't x-hire your Buff.

Kingairs returning! Thats also unlikely. One has been sold (gets x-hired almost daily though) and the other still has no wheels.

[Tiger 77]

Kingairs returning! Thats also unlikely. One has been sold (gets x-hired almost daily though) and the other still has no wheels.

Nor does it need wheels anyway. Last thing I heard from an engineer a couple of weeks ago was that the undercarriage will be completely removed and replaced with floats. In this day & age its far more efficient for kingairs to depart off the swan river and avoid the congestion of Perth airport. I'm surprised more operators at Perth haven't thought of this.

Cheers
Tiger.

[Ref + 10]

Sounds great. Maybe they can relocate the international back to Langley Park as well while they're at it. QF would save a heap on transport as the techies can just walk the 50m from the Hyatt!!!

Network can use the king air on floats to ferry people across to the domestic where they can jump on a cross hired caribou and fly to Sydney....

Gotta love Perth!!! :ok::}:E:O

[Ref + 10]

Howdy all,

I figure it's been a few months that the 100 has been up and running with Network now. Anyone hear any rumours about how it's going? On time performance, profitable, crewing, etc??

Personally I like seeing it flying but from what I see, it seems as though they still only have the 4 weekly flights to Nifty. Any more starting soon or in the pipeline?

[Fizzer]

Apparently Barimunya, Coondewanna, West Angeles, Barrow and Shay Gap when it is sealed in January. They seem to have crewing under control although one has left for greener pastures at Alliance.

[LM82]

out of curiosity who did buy their other kingair? Have an idea but havent been over that way in awhile so not sure whats happening these days :ok:

[Atlantic55]

I'd be surprised if Barimunya and West Angeles feature a Network jet in the near future.

[Skystar320]

out of curiosity who did buy their other kingair? Have an idea but havent been over that way in awhile so not sure whats happening these days

Are you talking about the Perth based Leasing company?

[MACH082]

I was pretty sure Star Charter purchased the Kingair and do alot of work for Network with it!

[RENURPP]

They seem to have crewing under control although one has left for greener pastures at Alliance.

Greener pastures at Alliance, now thats a scary concept.

[kimberleyEx]

Dont know how "Green" the pastures are at Network! But would rather fly on a QQ F100 any day of the week over Networks F100's.

Hey Guys, how is the manual Weight and Balance loading going over that way? Enjoying it are we?:ugh:

[LM82]

Skystar320: No

Star Charter never had much to do with them but i am glad its not who i thought it might have been that purchased the kingair.:yuk:

[Skystar320]

Who were you thinking?

[LM82]

no one important........cant even bring myself to type the name otherwise I will lose control of myself and starting bagging them but dont really want to get involved in that.:ok: sorry for the let down.

[Flokkered]

"Dont know how "Green" the pastures are at Network! But would rather fly on a QQ F100 any day of the week over Networks F100's."

Yeah the full leather interior - full professional D check by Fokker in Amsterdam plus the $100K full bare metal strip down and paint job are just no where up to QQs standard. Nor is the extra 20K plus for drivers. Maybe nw should have got the paint roller out for the QQ look and gotta love those overhead lockers - don't refurb em just paint over them.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[kimberleyEx]

Flokkered.

You seem quite the expert on the QQ F100's. Of course Network know how to operate a Jet. Sounds like no expense spared.

Just wondering still. Do the crews still enjoy their manual weight and balance? Seems for a no expense spared operation, a little tight not to use Fokker software for weight and balance? Also how do the crews enjoy Command flight planner? Heard CASA were suitably impressed by that! When they saw the numbers it spat out and compared what the a/c was actually doing!

Im sure the QQ guys and girls would like a pay rise. Not all companies are the cream, like you make out that Network is.

If you work for Network, I can apprecaite you trying to stick up for the mob you work for. Very noble of you. But after a few years there. You'll know what I mean. Just ask around the people who used to fly there. There are plenty of them at Skywest, NJS, & Vb.

K-ex

[Flokkered]

"If you work for Network"
Not quite Kim, but the F100 community is like the world wide web - everyone in the circle knows what each other earns, t&cs etc from drivers to engies. Most in the circle has mates at all the operators - no biased views here just throwing a few facts at you to level the playing field.
Even when KPIs are met, still way off. Any more than 4 delays for the month and oops - no bonus for you! There's also ex nw drivers at QQ and QQ drivers on the jets at nw. The cycle continues. Having been shown all 3 carriers hardware extensively - nw easily wins the best on ground award for neatest interior/exterior finish (not paint scheme but finish!) with XR second.
Cheers
Flokk:}

[aviation buff]

I've heard that Network is struggling with the F100 and the lack of backup with the King Airs being sold. Is it time to pay out my bond and move on. Are there jobs going at Alliance