Socata TB10 (Tobago)

[XX621]

Am seeking to learn more about the TB10 from current pilots & operators such as flying characteristics, maintainance/upkeep woes, AD's etc. Any comments welcome!

(am considering switching to the TB10 soon)

Thanks:ok:

[markkal]

Easy:

It is a MONOSPEED only no performance tourer....

Climb 90Kt
Cruise 90 Kt
Descent 90 Kt
:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{

[IO540]

It is a MONOSPEED only no performance tourer....
Climb 90Kt
Cruise 90 Kt
Descent 90 Kt

Rubbish.

The TB range are perfectly good planes. They have a much nicer and more comfy cockpit than the usual spamcans. Much easier to get into than any single door plane. No handling vices - they fly just as a well designed plane should.

The TB9 is often described as underpowered, but this is relative. The TB10 (180HP) is better; I've flown in one a few times and it is fine for ~ 700m hard runways at max weight.

Maintenance and parts availability wise there are no particular issues with Socata. If you buy a 25 year old one then you will have all the usual unscheduled maintenance issues applying to any 25 year old airframe.

I fly a TB20.

There is a user group at www.socata.org (http://www.socata.org) - best to ask any specific questions there.

[markkal]

Hi IO-540


Go try a Robin major 160 HP

Both performance and handling..
Then let me know
:D

[markkal]

Even better,

Check the Robin Dauphin 110 Hp with 3 people onboard.... And see how it compares

Or the old Piaggio P66 all metal with 160HP


Italy is the only country that had bought a large batch of Tampico's (Aeroclub d'Italia)15 years ago.

A Major disaster, most offered for sale for peanuts now,, barely for the value of the used engine...


I agree however about the confortable spacious cabin, good ergonomics...

But as far as handling and performance....

Much better the 180 hp Tampico, about the same performance of the 110 HP Robin Dauphin with 3 people onboard

[IO540]

The Robin is made of timber with fabric stretched over it.

It's true that the TB9/TB10 are a poor choice for a flying school but that is true for nearly all planes.

Only the Cessnas and Pipers are OK for continual banging onto the runway - not because they are particularly solid but because everybody can fix them, and if you have a fleet of them you can buy parts direct from the USA.

The European new-certified-plane market has largely collapsed over the past 10-15 years. The prices reached the region of £120-150k (for a basic C172-type spamcan) in the early 2000s and almost nobody was interested. Cessna and Piper sales are miniscule now. Diamond and to a lesser degree Cirrus are making new ground. Very few new TB9s and TB10s were sold over the past 10 years and most TB10s on the market are 20+ years old.

Italy is the only country that had bought a large batch of Tampico's (Aeroclub d'Italia)15 years ago.

Not true - loads were sold to flying schools in the 1980s.

But none of the above is relevant to whether a used plane is any good or not.

I remember looking at a 1985 TB10 a few years ago; it was about £80k. I reckon the same plane today would go for about £40k. Plus the substantial maintenance which you will get on any 20+ year old airframe.

The problem is that the pilot forums are full of armchair pilots who have never owned or even flown in a TB and they just regurgitate the same old stories.

[Rod1]

“Only the Cessnas and Pipers are OK for continual banging onto the runway - not because they are particularly solid but because everybody can fix them, and if you have a fleet of them you can buy parts direct from the USA.”

The Robin (and the Jodel) has proved to be very long lived in the training environment, and spare parts for the airframe grow on trees. Before buying my DR400 160 I looked at the TB10 and it had very few advantages and a lot of disadvantages over the DR400.

Rod1

Edited to add Robin/Apex are expecting to expand production of the DR400 this year as the ecoflyer version is proving very popular. How many TB10’s being produced this year?:}

[captain.speaking]

XX621 - I have operated TB10's for ten years - if you have any specific questions, feel free to p.m these - happy to help.

[stray10level]

90/90/90 doesnt applt to the TB10. Cruise is 115kn@25 square, app75kn. They are much more impressive in the cabin, good for taking friends in! My main criticism is the gull wing doors, you need to keep them in mind when windy, the gas struts arent particularly strong, and you get wet when entering/exiting in the rain. If you are seriously considering one, then why not go try one out? G-TZEE is at Earls Colne and they are really friendly their. I am sure they will be happy to go over the pros and cons as its a managed aircraft(owner leaves it to the school to rent out etc). I took it for an over night to belgium and it was faultless.
The robin airframe is slippery, but it needs a hanger as its wood and fabric. So dont forget to include those costs in your game plan! Also i am sure that spare parts for Robins are rumoured to be like trying to find hens teeth.

[IO540]

The TB gull wing doors are no worse for rain getting in than say a Piper but not as good as the Cessna layout where the high wing protects you nicely. The worst by far is say a Diamond DA40/42.

In the GT model (not many TB10GTs around since by then the sales were very low; mostly only the TB20s/21s were selling then) the door struts have a different layout and a stronger (600N) strut has been retrofitted to many. But one still needs to be careful in strong winds - as indeed with any other type if the wind is blowing to open the door.

[the bald eagle]

Could'nt agree more about the TB airframe, i've done approx 400hours of trouble free flying on them & there great for long touring trips of 4-5 hours duration and the best aircraft on the single piston market to join the mile high club:ok:

[XX621]

....the best aircraft on the single piston market to join the mile high club:ok:

Well thats the very best endorsement I potential buyer could ever get....clinches the deal :ok:

[HN1708]

I am glad to see some sense talked about regarding TB10s. I hear too many people slating them when they haven't even flown one!

As for the parts, they are not as scarce and expensive as many would have you believe. If you compare the cost and availability with Piper and Cessna then yes, they are not as plentiful or cheap due to the mass production and alternative makes of parts for these more popular makes.

Given a stonking crosswind i'd take a TB10 over any Cessna or Piper i've flown any day. The 25kt limit is well deserved in my limited experience.

[mostlytossas]

The aviation college here in Adelaide South OZ have dozens of them (Tobago's) used to train international students for mainly the asian airlines. While I haven't heard anything bad about them from a maintenance/ reliability point of view I was told if you are a 6foot plus type person like me you will have trouble with the headroom in them, though I did sit in one once and it didn't seem too bad.
One thing I can tell you though considering they have a constant speed prop they are fairly gutless as my Archer 2 will out climb them and I usually end up slowing down behind them if doing circuits. Whether this is due to the student pilots or not I don't know but doubt it as I've heard simular stories. So whether you would want the extra expense of the prop maintenance for little if any gain is questionable.

[IO540]

I am not sure whether Socata parts are consistently more expensive than Cessna or Piper parts.

If you need a new elevator, it will cost you of the order of 10 grand no matter what it is for.

What Socata have done is a cunning scheme where every part, right down to the smallest washer, has a special Socata part number. People who don't do their homework and buy by those numbers pay through the nose, like £20 for an exhaust nut which is a standard Lyco part costing $15 in the USA. Of course the $15 is a ripoff too because the nut costs only $0.20 but you do need the aviation traceability.

On some items like hoses the Socata version is £400 whereas a normal one is £35 - because Socata use ISO threads for which almost nobody stocks the fittings which are made by Aeroquip in France... but this is fairly rare. And teflon hoses are not life limited anyway.

The great secret of 'lower cost' maintenance is to know the original part numbers and buy them in reasonable numbers direct from the USA. With the right paperwork this is 100% legit and if you run 10 C172s or 10 TB10s you can play the same game.

With Cessna etc the numbers (of certified parts) are published but with Socata most are not. This has often been blamed for the extra cost. But a bit of detective work gets you the real P/N.