ASA employment

[adam_753]

Just thought I would start a thread for those that are waiting on job offers from ASA. It is exciting knowing that I could be starting an ATC career with ASA. Regardless of all the politics that is currently going on, there is a supply demand inbalance and there are those like myself that have applied and who have gotten throught to the interview stage.

Lets hope that from now onwarads staffing levels will be improved within the company. If you are waiting on a job offer send your thoughts this way.

[LeviTate]

It's a nervous wait. I'm expecting a response before Easter, but that's only 4 more working days away. I know some of you have had their references contacted. I'm not sure if my current boss has been. I'm hoping so.

Despite whatever politics and management issues are around, I'm keen to get stuck into the training. Will be devastated with a negative response, although I'm well aware the supply/demand equation is in my favour.

Here's hoping. :\ Good luck to the others.

[Spodman]

Best of luck guys. Don't expect too much from the management, we don't. Still tremendous fun after 25 years in the business.

[Knackers]

Next ab initio course starts in April with, a little birdie tells me, only 8 recruits instead of the normal 12. Apparently we're getting heaps of applicants but the quality has dropped off in recent years. More courses scheduled, next in June I think, then another.

The average age of courses has increased over the years. When I did mine back in the seventies, a 25yo was the old man of the course. Now they're amongst the youngest on the courses. However the pass rate doesn't seem to have changed.

The whole recruitment thing needs addressing. It takes too long from initial application to commencing a course.

[adam_753]

So it sounds like they are getting plenty of interest but the quality of the applicants is generally low. Are you saying therefore that they are lowering their standards?

What used to be the average age?

[DirtyPierre]

The average age of courses has increased over the years. When I did mine back in the seventies, a 25yo was the old man of the course.Knackers, The Long Term course in the seventies and eighties had an age restriction on them. You had to be under 24 to be placed on the course. There can be no age restriction in today's world.

Short Term course (for those with previous avaition experience, e.g. CPL, mil ATC, Flight Service Officer) had no age restriction.

If you did your long term course in the seventies, you might need that zimmer frame to get around the ops room? :O

[somniferous]

Who was the sadist that designed the online testing?

Does anyone know how long it takes after testing for them to get back to you?

[LeviTate]

I got results after the online tests within a week from memory. Don't expect to find out what result you got or what the pass mark is. You'll just get a "Well Done, Pass" or "Bad Luck, Fail".

[Knackers]

Are you saying therefore that they are lowering their standards?


At the moment we require 100% of all aircraft to be separated by a separation standard - not simply a few feet of air. That goes for live traffic and exit exams out of the academy. I suppose we could drop it to, say, 95% of all aircraft in order to increase the pool of applicants. Salaries would drop though, I reckon.

[adam_753]

Well referees have been contacted that has to be a good sign. Bring it on!

[LeviTate]

A good sign for those whose referees have been contacted I suppose. Mine don't appear to have been ... yet. :(

[adam_753]

Chin up Levi. they are still contacting them so not a bad sign and besides maybe they were impressed and wont bother too much!

[LeviTate]

Maybe if they're going down alphabetically, I should've changed my name to Aaaaaa_LeviTate. ;)

I'm not worried, really. I can just imagine when they talk to my current boss, they'll feel like they're being interviewed themselves. She'll ask questions like "when we he get an answer? when will he start the course?, etc." All the things I've just learnt to live with waiting. She'll wonder what kind of operation AsA are running :)

[2 Dogs]

She'll wonder what kind of operation AsA are running


....don't we all ?? :confused:

[Knackers]

There was a meeting this week in Brisbane between management and controllers. I wasn't there but the following was reported on our Civil Air site:

"Meeting then opened to questions

Q. Relating to college and training and recruitment (sounded like a Dorothy Dixer from one of the SDEs)
• Need to recruit large number of ATCs, more Global recruits expected in mid year.
• 50%pass rate from college for ENR, and 80% for TWR courses.
• Need to look at how we place trainees into the field
• Looking at the wage parity at RAAF and Global Recruits
• JH “Operating environment completely different “have to use different methodology (in recruitment) with competition not only locally but globally.
• JH “Have to be competitive in the market”, by attracting staff with a “decent pay incentive”
• JH Acknowledges the need to “retain staff”
• Got to get away from the reliance on Overtime.
• Lots of talk about how good the Academy is and how it can do it better."

and the following worthwhile comment:

"no mention of assuming they successfully recruit 100 trainees how they will get them through the successive bottlenecks of the college, simulator and final field training".

Yep, a big problem.

I think the actual academy success rate is better than 50%, which simply measures how many went in and how many finally rated. It doesn't take into account resignations (which may be due to poor perfromance or personal circumstances such as marital problems, etc), deaths, backcoursing due illness, etc. I think the enroute success rate is about 80%.

The fact is, some trainees pass out of the academy with marginal passes, others slack off and don't study, others decide that the job is not for them, either because of the shiftwork or responsibility. Recently heard of one failing his/her enroute rating paper - there's no excuse for that and I've never heard of it happening before. Controllers in the field are very intolerant of slackers and shirkers. You've got to give 100%.

[dsham]

Enroute 22: 12 started the course and they graduated yesterday with 11 getting through. The other person did not fail but realised it wasn't their cup of tea.

dont know where the 50% figure comes from.

[DrinaFive]

The college over the last few years has been passing plenty of people that should not have got to the field. They are basically too gutless to fail people and leave it to the field controllers to waste time training and then failing people that should never have left the college.

[adam_753]

There doesn't seem to be much if any information on the college, it seems to be "Top Secret". Does anyone know the numbers of applicants and those that were interviewed. How many trainees will they take into the college from that group? I think we find out late next week?

[ferris]

They are basically too gutless to fail people Spoken by someone who obviously hasn't worked there. Inappropriate conversation for this thread.

[somniferous]

Knackers, Thanks for the info, good to see that at least they appear to be semi-proactive, or at least aware of personnel issues.

Ferris is right, not exactly the AsA whinge forum. I think most of us here are fairly positive about future employment with AsA and excited about our prospects.

Does anyone have any info on how many students will be on each course?

[Funk]

Don't fool yourself kiddo, 50% pass rate is not far off the mark.
On my course AB3 1996 of the 22 on the college course (including 6 who were back coursed from AB1) 16 of us made out of the college. Of the 8 that went to Brisbane 4 of us got rated. Melbourne I think had a little more success but not much.
Anecdotally these figures are average for Ab Initio courses. It is no slight against the college or those that failed, this job is not for the 'nearly good enough'.
The fact is AsA should adequately compensate trainees for taking the risk of getting nothing out of 18 months of very hard work. It is not like Uni the skills and training are not transferable.
Additionally given the historically low pass marks AsA should also have been running sufficient course numbers for the last 5 years.

Good luck guys :ok: (I am not condoning binge drinking but getting paralytic every Friday night seemed to work for me at college :yuk:;))

[mikk_13]

haha i was keen like that once.

You'll understand.

if i knew more about how it worked i deffinately would have givin it alot more thought. You should be listening to what is being said because from what i read, it was alot worse for me.

[somniferous]

Mikk,

I appreciate your experienced outlook. However as someone who is already a controller - admittedly with a different organisation. There are people out there who are excited/looking forward to a new opportunity.

We recognise that the grass isn't always greener, however in this instance at least it is a different shade of green.

To the true abinitios out there this may be a new an exciting opportunity that is a step up from the conditions that they are under now and perhaps AsA is a better organisation than the one they are currently working for.

It would be nice to keep this thread as a positive arena where applicants going through the process can share information.

If people want to read about conditions they can go to the D&G thread. At least AsA controllers can whinge about their conditions, so thats one thing they can't complain about!

While I am here, does anyone know anything about the rumour that interviews for the Aug course are going to be conducted in early April?

[5miles]

I am not condoning binge drinking but getting paralytic every Friday night seemed to work for me at college

Funk
If memory serves me correct funkster, you never got to the 'binge' part of drinking cause you were gone after your 3rd shandie :ok:

As for the college...er, Academy, being too gutless to fail people; that may be a tad harsh. But I have trained and checked some trainees who were lacking in some fairly basic skills and knowledge.

[Funk]

harsh but fair :\, however after 12 years I have now perfected my binging but not the :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[mikk_13]

well you seem to know it all about conditions of employment in australia generally, sumererwhateveryournameis. Its very easy to just write everything off as a controller whinging about their conditions. You managed to do it even though i was offering simple advice; to find out as much as you can about how it works before applying. Whats your experience in the asa arena?

[kazzy01]

Has anyone actually heard anything from AsA yet? The wait is never ending. I know my referees have been contacted. Do we find out by mail, email or phone?

[gazs]

No news as yet. During my interview I was lead to believe that an answer would be forthcoming within 3-4 weeks. References have been contacted, so expecting to wait at least another month. Wait does seem never ending and after 18 months of application process-Is it really worth it??? Hope so.

[kazzy01]

That's what they told me as well, but my 4 weeks is up today!

[adam_753]

I am sick of waiting, my 4 weeks is up the end of next week. I think we will find out this week. Good luck

[kam16]

To those waiting do not despair.
Knowing AsA all too well , having worked for them for some 20 plus years, just because they say 4 weeks does not mean 4 weeks of actual time. They work on their own time.

Good luck to all.:ok:

[adam_753]

Well its Friday probably going to be another weeks wait now

[LeviTate]

And April's not far away. Makes it interesting if they want to start people in an April course, as someone earlier suggested.

[kazzy01]

Don't know where April came from, they told me they have courses starting in June, July and November. This recruitment drive is for June/July courses.

[dsham]

there is a course starting in april - however those on it already have been informed a while ago.

[adam_753]

I noticed on the ASA website that they are not accepting any more applications for ab initio ATCO. They are however advertising for an instuctor for the college:ok: Hopefully good news.................

[LeviTate]

I noticed on the ASA website that they are not accepting any more applications for ab initio ATCO. They are however advertising for an instuctor for the college:ok: Hopefully good news.................
Unless it takes them just as long to find an instructor as it does to get into ab initio training ;)

[disturbedone]

12 started the course and they graduated yesterday with 11 getting through??

My understanding is the college, sorry 'academy', now has unlimited supplemental tests. Doesn't seem like they should have any fail at all.

[dsham]

if you read on you will notice that the other person didnt fail.... they pulled off on own accord. unlimited supps - wish that was the case but sadly it isnt..... dunno where you got that from

[dsham]

Enroute 21 - out of those who left the college - all have received a rating bar one who went to TOPS - who is still getting it.

What is with all the scaremongering on here..... if you can do the job you get a rating - if you cant you dont... simple.

[divingduck]

So is it still the same as the "good old days" when you lost 50% of your bodies from day one til validation or not?

Is it true that the "academy" get paid per trainee they pass?

My course started with 20 and finished with 9 getting ratings.
In those days you had one chance...ie one sup, if you failed another exam at any time, it was off back wherever you came from. No ifs no buts, just ciao!

dsham, I am glad to see that a pile of guys all got through, it makes a nice change.
There was a course recently (as I hear it) that was a total washout...is that true?
Do you all still do the same exam...watch it, blip it, do it? or have they changed that now?:rolleyes:

ANSA and funk actually do know what they are talking about...at least on this subject:E

Good luck to all those that get the gig...work hard, play hard and keep your sense of humour, 'cause you are going to need it!

[dsham]

yeah there was a course a while back that was a total disaster apparently.... it all depends on the mood of the course I spose - if everyone works as a team they should all help each other through. I think that bad course was a result of too many individuals trying to better each other - end result no-one gets through...

The current policy (dont quote me) is you get 2 Supps for Theory (I.E. you fail an exam, you get another crack and you have to pass it. You get to do that twice) and 2 Supps for Prac. If this policy is being adhered too i dont know. But if someone is a flunky the college passing them is only delaying the inevitable cause they probably wont rate in the field.

With the Prac exams you dont blip it and you have never seen it before. You rock up on the day plug in a go. The SSO's blip for you.

[5miles]

ANSA,

What's with the age in your profile? Has the sandpit made you old b4 your time??

BTW we're still short in FNQ if you want to return to a hot & humid out station.

[adam_753]

I take it no one was contacted today with a job offer? It is getting close to June I would like a chance to put in my FOUR WEEKS NOTICE and move down to Melbourne...................:{

[somniferous]

From what I heard recently the HR people are sorting stuff out and there have been staff away - back sometime next week apparently. So perhaps people will hear then...

No news is good news??

[Quokka]

5miles... hmm... tempting. But who is the Line Manager or higher manager who would have to sign off on an Global Campaign recruitment direct to that particular FNQ unit?

[janecav]

Hi all,
Am also waiting on a result for the ab inition ATC with ASA. Got this email yesterday from ASA:


We are just finalising the recruitment process, and are hoping to be out to all candidates with a result by the end of the week. The process has taken longer than anticipated with all of the public holidays quite a few referees were unavailable, as a result the timeframe has been pushed out.

[adam_753]

If you check in the D and G forum under the topic "ASA staffing levels" there are comments from some people who have already received emails from ASA saying thanks but no thanks last Friday. I don't know if that means those who have not been infromed yet are in..............?

[LeviTate]

I would say anyone who didn't get last Friday's email (which was generic and unfortunately addressed to me also) will be a lot happier come the end of this week.

[adam_753]

Sorry to hear that levitate, I think the least they can do is phone everyone considering how long the whole process has been, maybe there were a lot of interviews?

Any idea of how many people have been in this round of recruitment and how many were culled along the way?

[gazs]

Just received some exciting news from AsA.
Have been accepeted to begin course starting August 4th for enroute Melb. From the conversation on the phone there is a course starting June/July of 12 and a course in August for 12.
Leviate, sorry to hear that you weren't accepted. Should you be interested in reapplying, at the very least you will know what to expect and be much better prepared in any futur attempt.
If there is anyone viewing currently in training please message me with your thoughts and experience thus far.
:D:D:D

[janecav]

Yo Gazs!
Well done. I got an offer yesterday for en route Brisvegas with training in Melbourne starting August4.
We'll probably all meet up in Melbourne at some point!

[kazzy01]

And I've got an offer for Tower, provisionally starting 7th July. Is anyone else on this course? I know people on the Brissie enroute and also Melbourne enroute....

Can someone actually tell me the address of the college as I want to start to look into areas to live etc?

[janecav]

Yo Kazzy01!
I found out through google searching that the college is at Melbourne (Tullamarine) Airport. I'm 99% sure it's the right place.
I even looked up bus routes to the airport last night, wondering where to live too!
Maybe one day we'll meet... again.
From janecav!

[gazs]

You're right. The college is right at the airport. Use the tower as a reference and you wont go wrong.

[adam_753]

From memory the tower is on the other side of the airport away from the terminals? do the buses pass by the other side of the airport? Or willa car be necesssary?

[janecav]

There's a public bus (not the $$$Skybus) to the terminals. Looks like the quickest way to the tower from there would be to wander over the runways.
Alternatively, there may be a staff shuttle bus around the airport - there is at Sydney to some places around the airport.

[samcgill2001]

Brisbane enroute starting Aug 4 for me..

Commiserations to those who didn't make it...

Hey Jane - I'm sure we can figure out some car pooling!

Looking forward to meeting everyone.

Scott

[adam_753]

I am on the June course look forward to meeting everyone by the sounds of it, it is going to be busy at the college!

[Blockla]

College hours nominally operate from 0700-1400 (Mon-Fri) at the moment, for trainees anyway, the college is effectively at the base of the current control tower (a new one is being planned), Tower Road, Tullamarine. (This is a good 10minute drive from the terminal). There is talk of an arvo 'shift' when (if) training gets into full gear.

You'll need a car. Or access to a personal driver prepared to drive you in shiftworking hours.

Public transport to the airport or the suburb of tullamarine/gladstonepark is effectively bus only, with very ordinary timetables last time I looked and certainly not suited for an early start, then you even if a bus is an option you're at least 5 miles from the nearest bus stop (which I'd guess is in Melrose Drive).

For those new to Melbourne, I'd suggest Inner Northern Suburbs, Ascotvale, Moonee Ponds, Essendon, Kensington, Nth Melbourne, Keilor, Brunswick, Niddrie etc. That way it's not too far from work, less likely to encounter traffic issues and also still close enough to the city to enjoy "living" in Melbourne.

A lot of ATCs live in (maybe 20% or more) Sunbury/Gisborne area, but if looking to rent, not so many options.

Going back 13 years when I was instructing, most of the trainees house 'pooled' and it seemed to work for them as there were many instant study partners etc. not to mention people to share costs with etc.

[bekolblockage]

I'm interested to find out the hours etc so I can organise the rest of my life around it.

Now THAT is funny.

[kazzy01]

I'm actually wanting to know how long break will be at xmas as I'm a pom and dont know whether to go home before the course starts or if we will have a 2 week break at xmas so I can pop home then!

Anyone have any ideas?

[adam_753]

Kazzy send HR an email I'm sure they can help you. When are they mailing the info too us?

[LeviTate]

Well done to all of you who got in to courses. :D

I feel a little left out, but hopefully I'll get through once I apply again next year. You haven't seen the last of me ... yet. Good luck with all the work in the college and working out where to live/travel. Any accomodation along the Western Ring Road would be good too. It's a great road (out of peak hours) and takes you straight to the airport (well, almost.)

[janecav]

Hey Levi,
I hope you get in next round. Since you're already through the testing, are you still limited to 2 attempts?

[LeviTate]

Will have to go through the whole process again, and can't apply until 12 months after my last interview. They may have different stages to go through by then.

[janecav]

There was someone who did the testing (for the second time) on the day of my testing. On her previous attempt (12 months before) she had passed all the sections except the last one (the separation one) which she had failed by one mark.
Her results for her second attempt were the same - she passed everything except the last one - by one mark again.
Which seems to show that the same person will obtain generally the same mark on each try for the testing.
Which obviously means that I reckon that if you pass the testing first go, you would pass second go as well. Then just charm them in the interview and you're in!

[5miles]

Looks like the quickest way to the tower from there would be to wander over the runways.

Please, please, please, tell me you meant that in jest!

[adam_753]

It is certainly not a process that I would wish on anyone. It took me almost a year to the day to complete and I know there are others who have waited much longer than that. In my opinion there are too many ways not to get through! Does anyone have an idea as to how many people went through the process this time?

[gazs]

from what I was lead to believe this morning via my phone conversation, there is a compulsory shut down of the college over the xmas break.

[janecav]

There was someone who did the testing (for the second time) on the day of my testing. On her previous attempt (12 months before) she had passed all the sections except the last one (the separation one) which she had failed by one mark.
Her results for her second attempt were the same - she passed everything except the last one - by one mark again.
Which seems to show that the same person will obtain generally the same mark on each try for the testing.
Which obviously means that I reckon that if you pass the testing first go, you would pass second go as well. Then just charm them in the interview and you're in!

[janecav]

Hi 5Miles!
Yes of course. I'd be a pretty dodgy ATC otherwise.
janecav

PS don't know why my last post came up twice...

[LeviTate]

Then just charm them in the interview and you're in!Anyone know a good florist near the airport? ;)

[Knackers]

Guys,

The academy hours are 0730-1530, with a 30 minute break at 0930 and 1200. The rest of the time is full on classroom and sim, except the last hour which is often private study or sim tutorials. Basically it's run like an ATC shift. The academy is located under the tower, no public transport. There is a canteen for meals if you've got the dough - most bring there own lunch and there is a student kitchen, lounge, tv, etc available. If you're coming from interstate, I suggest you look at suburbs and towns (eg Sunbury/ Gisborne) north of the river due to traffic in the morning.

And congratulations.

[newbieatc]

Guys and Girls,

I've made it through as well on the June course (MEL en-route), after a long and exhausting wait.

msn or e-mail exchange would be nice way to get in touch before we really get together in MEL, feel free to send a private mesg to me.

Looking forward to meeting you all, by the look of things...I am one of the youngest guys here.


P.S. could i possibly take a day off or just a few hrs in the morning, coz i have a pretty important thingy which i have to attend to during training...
I've checked the flights, earliest flight to land MEL from Syd is 0730...
Any suggestion??

[adam_753]

I dont know where I am going to live. I want to be close so I don't have long commutes especially if starting that early in the morning plus I am assuming the traffic gets pretty bad first thing in the morning out at the airport?.

[newbieatc]

How long does it take from Essendon or moonee ponds to the academy

[5miles]

How long does it take from Essendon or moonee ponds to the academy

15 - 25 minutes depending on exactly where in those suburbs you're staying.
Traffic isn't really a problem if driving in from either of these or there neighbouring suburbs as you'll be travelling against the tide.

[fower]

Congratulations to all who got in. There is also another enroute course of 8 starting in 2 weeks, i think they found out a couple of months ago.

[Roger Standby]

To those who got through the testing and bombed out in the interview, give it another go next year if you're still keen.

The first time I did the testing, I got bumped when the psych decided that I didn't really want the job. No recruiting for around 4 years. Then another go saw me get through all the way.

One horror story from memory, just to get the nerves up, lol, was that of a guy around 6 years ago who got on to a course, quit his job, moved his family across to the other side of the city and then the course get cancelled 2 weeks before it started.:eek: AsA at it's finest.:hmm:

[BurglarsDog]

Only across the other side of the city!! Hey call a cab. Furniture can follow!

There are some who have moved / will move/ plan to move their family across the other side of the world!

Try that for stress!

Not easy to undo whatever or whoever cancels the contract!

DogGone :(

[janecav]

Hi all,
Is there anyone on the course starting 4th August who is looking for accommodation in Melbourne? I'm moving from Sydney. Will prob look for share accommodation somewhere, but i'd rather live with others on the course.