Latest on CityJet

[Saturn]

As of today has there been signifcant changes at CityJet? I was thinking of applying for DEC and wanted to know a few things if someone has the time.

1) Tax implications based at DUB or LCY. (I assume CDG is now closed?)
2)Implication of the VLM merger/buy out?
3)Current pay scale if someone has it.
4) Are there any Mesaba pilot's left from the RJ85 purchases.
5)Lifestyle roster issues.
6)What ever else you can think of.

It would be a big move for me and I would not go unless I was totally committed. I have read the previous posts and would appreciate minimal flaming and just direct and honest information. Thank you.

[wxjedi]

1) Tax implications based at DUB or LCY. (I assume CDG is now closed?)
Dunno
2)Implication of the VLM merger/buy out?
Eventually, both will become one under the Cityjet brand so all good.
3)Current pay scale if someone has it.
Captains make about 6500-9000 a month
4) Are there any Mesaba pilot's left from the RJ85 purchases.
yes
5)Lifestyle roster issues.
6on 3off. Great crews. Great staff travel.
6)What ever else you can think of.
I am thinking of reapplying. I worked there when there was only a handful of 146s. I miss Ireland.

[Lafyar Cokov]

Has there been significant news at CityJet in the last couple of days???

[5Papa]

1) Tax implications based at DUB or LCY. (I assume CDG is now closed?)
Everybody pays tax in Ireland so 20% till 35000E income, 41% for every euro on top of that.
2)Implication of the VLM merger/buy out?
Eventually, both will become one under the Cityjet brand so all good.
3)Current pay scale if someone has it.
Captains make about 6500-9000 euro net a month
4) Are there any Mesaba pilot's left from the RJ85 purchases.
yes
5)Lifestyle roster issues.
6on 3off. Great crews. Great staff travel.
6)What ever else you can think of.
very good spirit in LCY, no reason for not applying

@Rayfal Vokoc: No.

[JaJaBinx]

Sorry 5PAPA, but why would you pay tax to Ireland if you are LCY based and
live in London?

Surely you pay UK tax only?

[speedrestriction]

What are the command promotion criteria at Cityjet and what (roughly) is the current time to command?

sr

[5Papa]

Sorry for the late reply both of you.

@ JajaBinx: Tax on basic salary is payed in Ireland because it is an Irish company (if you want you could claim taxes back and pay them somewhere else, just don't now why you would want that). So no UK tax. That's just how it works with CityJet.

@ speedrestriction: What do you mean exactly? Maybe this answers your questions: you need 3000hrsTT. You could be hired direct entry. If you would join with less than 500hrsTT (like me), it will take about five years because you will fly about 650 hours a year. You still have to be picked out by the management, so nothing seniority based.

Am happy to answer more questions. Happy landings.

[Joffyh]

So if you're a registered UK citizen and work from LCY...you don't pay UK tax? How does that work? Surely if you pay tax to Ireland you must live there for a certain period every year?

:confused:

[billington]

You say captains making 6000 - 9000 a month NET!!!!!

In other words after tax.

Is this actually true

Rgds

Billington:confused:

[ragnarok]

Bases in CDG and ORY are still open , Cityjet taken to court by 17 employees and under current investigation by the Gendarmerie, labour inspection...etc

[Volorovescio]

Hello guys,
is there any chances to be hired in Paris?

Thanks

[5Papa]

Joffyh: That's just how it works. Either you live in LCY or DUB, you pay taxes in Ireland.

Billington: Again, this is exactly true.

Volorovescio: Chance is not 0%, but it is very small so don't expect it. Depends what you got to offer ;).

[Volorovescio]

I have shortly the interview.
How will be the recruitment?
Since they have invited me for the interview, will be that at all or there will be also the simulator evaluation?

[toomuchtimeintheair]

Hi All,

Was thinking of applying to CityJet as a Direct Entry Captain. What are the requirments to be considered? I Have 3300 tt 1000 Turbo Prop Capt and 500 Jet F/O (Current Position).

What are the chances of getting Dublin Base?

Web site mentions 6 on 3 off. Would a lot of this time be spent in Paris Hotels. What's the latest finish and earliest start day off requriments.

In general what's the atmosphere like with crewing and managment, I'm guessing there's a lot of unrest at the moment after the cdg base closure.

How secure is the Air France contract, When is it up for renewal?

Many Thanks Boys and Girls

[going 'round]

Hi Toomuch

Was thinking of applying to CityJet as a Direct Entry Captain. What are the requirements to be considered? I Have 3300 tt 1000 Turbo Prop Capt and 500 Jet F/O (Current Position).
You should be ok for DE with those hours, or perhaps fast track to command

What are the chances of getting Dublin Base?
No problems

Web site mentions 6 on 3 off. Would a lot of this time be spent in Paris Hotels. What's the latest finish and earliest start day off requirements.
You'll do about 3 overnights/week. There's no requirement for early/late days off. In fact often start back early and finish late before/after days off, although not as often as in the past. Rostering is the one major problem at wx. The 6/3 fixed roster is a small step in the right direction.

In general what's the atmosphere like with crewing and management, I'm guessing there's a lot of unrest at the moment after the cdg base closure.
No problems, except in cdg base, but that's mostly due to lack of communication. . Too involved to go into, but CDG base is not closing. Overall, a good bunch of people.

How secure is the Air France contract, When is it up for renewal?
No AF contract as such - Cityjet is a 100% owned subsidiary of AF so no fear of flights disappearing. Major impediment to growth is lack of crews at the moment.

Many Thanks Boys and Girls

[toomuchtimeintheair]

Thanks for the info Going Around

[Zurg]

Thanks for the good info everyone. A couple more if I may,

Could a Captain living in the UK out of LCY give me an idea of take home. Any extra tax to pay for the UK tax man etc? I can't seem to get E7000 net using the ppjn figures!

Also pension and staff travel?
If someone could give me an idea of the 6 days on, work pattern that'd be great too - got to work out if I could use the delights of UK public transport from the South East..

Thanks again.

[General Dogsbody]

Hi Guys,

Cityjet is a good place to work, however there are some important details being left out by the others people posting here:

Rostering is a Major problem, the 6/3 is an improvement but only slight you are still looking at early start to your week and a late finish. (you can't have the fixed roster in your first year with the company or when you get upgraded for a year)

The company is Very short of Captains, hence I have heard that 15 O/Nights in a 28 day roster is not unheard of and up to 60 sectors. Good money mind you.

Because of the previous point annual leave is a Major problem and it is almost certain that you will not get to use your full entitlement and will end up building up large carry over days for years, I have heard of guys who are due Sixty Days, although how can they use them given the current situation.

Watch out for Management types on the forum they can paint a rosey picture, there is a very high turnover in cityjet at the moment and the main problem is with the roster, given the low crew numbers this is not likely to improve and has been a constant problem for many years.

There is a great bunch of Guys and Galls in Wx though and the work is good fun and interesting just not for people interested in quality of life, family etc.

[nuageblanc]

How secure is the Air France contract, When is it up for renewal?
AF love cityjet. No fear there.


Air France loves everybody ! even Alitalia pilots ! AF has decided to hire 180 Alitalia pilots :eek:

[lulu75]

Sorry, but I think some people are trying to make Cityjet look a lot better than what it really is. My boyfriend was a captain in wx and he never ever made 9000 euros/month. On a better month ( working maximum duty time ) he was making around 6000 euros. You are probably adding the 2000 euros that captains got for moving from CDG or DUB base to go to LCY (for a year only). Then I guess you can add up few hundreds if you are instructor or line checker.
Anyway, in the end the money is not everything. You will find out in the long run.
The atmosphere is still good in lcy cause its still new and people are still motivated and lots of them have the leaving allowance ( but for only a year)!!

[antz]

HI all,

i've been reading this post with intrest as I am currently trying to decide whether to apply or not.

Is it fair to say that there are some issues but that the company are trying to resolve them ?

I would be a direct entry command hopefully ! coming from a turbo prop.

Are there really that many overnights ? and issues with leave ?

Also heard they might be switching to the Q 400 ?

Do you get paid a salay during training ?

Do you receive your expenses during line training ?

I know a lot of people have answered a few of these querys but I'm just trying to build a picture of the company before I commit to them.

Leave could be an issue for me as I have to try and co ordinate with my girlfriend her leave requirements, are they flexible in trying to accomadate this ?

[Jetfella]

Hi,
they do pay during training,normal expenses too I believe.no Q400,sticking with RJ.Lots of days away,as they are badly shortstaffed,constant roster changes from a poor crewing office.Leave?,you must be kidding!
There are issues that the company are dealing with,but thats always been the case,some very good people there,but its a very unpleasant place to work.
London city is a disaster financially,Madrid scrapped,Milan dumped,and few bums on seats ZRH,GVA,with stiff competition from Cityflyer and Swiss.They picked the wrong time to expand,wrong airport,and youd have to wonder whos making the commercial decisions.
Could be a great airline!!,,pity about the management...

[lulu75]

I cant beleive I actually ear about Air France on this thread. CityJet is an IRISH AIRLINE ! You will ear it so many times if you join in. You cant forget about it ! They should be so proud to be owned by Air France... Pride, pride...

[Jetfella]

are you havin a laff? proud?,in london,air france want to disown cityjet!,ask how many flights have been cancelled ex Lcy,not a proud record for a company with a greatly confused brand,air france for city jet,cityjet for airfrance for scot airways for... blah blah blah,not want you want to EAR!,
watch the scramble as extra flights are put on zrh gva to try and pull pax,in the summer!!!,,the pockets are not that deep,,,proud my arse!

[lulu75]

In fact you are right; pride has nothing to do with it. CityJet simply would not have existed anymore if it wasn't for Air France. They are flying on Air France slots on pretty much every route they operate so as soon as Air France pulls out WX is non-existant. They wouldn't have anywhere to fly and, , I doubt anybody could even find them because the brandname CityJet is completely unknown to most people. (90% of their passengers buy tickets for an AIR FRANCE flight.)

It is quite clear that AF is trying to move CityJet out of Paris, most likely because of pressure from BritAir and Regional. At least Air France is giving them a chance to stay in business as the AF-provider out of the UK and Dublin. To be courteous to its neighbour, British Airways, Air France has decided to not start an Air France-base in London and call it CityJet for AF. Makes perfect sense to me...
That it might not be a commercially viable option is a different matter. but they could have just pull the plug .

[Jetfella]

I think Cityjet are moving from paris due to the French Labour laws mainly.There is huge unrest amongst the crews because of this,its caused major upheaval for lots of staff,cc and flight deck.The london City project is purely a cityjet creation,their first experiment if you like, of operating independent of AF.However theyve borrowed in excess of 180 million euro from Paris to expand out of LCY.So its a gamble.Its patently not paying off!
The despatch rate is shocking since the start,and as I mentioned in an earlier post,very poor uptake on GVA ZRH.Theyre trying to address this now with some hairbrained new schedule dooomed to failure.
VLM takeover?doubt it now.What amazes me is that in the current climate,or even historically,how come there is no commercial savvy?.Is it a case of a wall full of degrees and no real substance?
Whers is the brash young man or woman in Swords who can see the wood from the trees and make it work?.they need someone badly with vision.IMHO,there problem stems from the fact of being under AF wing for so long,very comfy,lots of backup.Now,they have their own baby,and they didnt do prenatal!
LCY is a very collicky babay!!

[lulu75]

The only route that really works is the 0RY/LCY which is full of frequent flyers mostly French who use Air France by CityJet cause its the only airline going to LCY and cause all of them have the frequent flyer program that give them miles on each flight.They are by the way starting to annoy the passengers on that route with the constant delays due to the change of A/C that comes from GVA or ZRH etc...There has been plenty of complains lately. I doubt lots of English, Irish or Swiss passengers are so much interested in this frequent traveller card.Air France is just trying to see if there is any money to get from LCY, and probably trying to get as much slots as possible to take away from BA.

[Volorovescio]

How many days a year?
Thanks

[5Papa]

27.

Doable.

[Jetfella]

problem is,you wont get any of the leave you apply for,specially if your new!They have developed a highly complicated system of granting leave,when there are so many ways of simplifying it.Instead,after an interminable make work project,thay have an ABC system,one year in a, next in c,next b,next a.Basically meaning that youll never get what you want.Also,they tag A/L days on to your days off willy nilly,which is disgraceful.
They dont want you carrying days,but you will have no choice.You will be called on your day off,as crewing are not au fait with JAR Ops,and at least common courtesy.
Also 5Papa,the 6/3 much heralded fixed roster is bull.Thats only for a select few,and even then has strings attached.If your new,or upgraded you wont get it for a year at least,but by then they will have fewer crews...and on it goes.
You have to remember, your dealing with a company whose new look website still advertises Madrid from LCY?.may seem like a small detail to some,but the marketing is god awful.Coupled with the poor branding,leads to problems.As I mentioned in a previous post,theyre making heavy losses on ZRH GVA,and even the Nice which was doing well,will be hampered by Cityflyer who are starting on it,with a very well oiled machine,super efficient.I foresee LCY being the thorn in the WX side.The Airfrance staff in LCY have embraced it like the Ebola Virus,rock up for a flight and just look at the blank stares and long faces,..they dont wanna work for a cityjet?.
One more point,the RJs they bought from ummerikka are lemons.

[Douche Bag]

Jetfella,

so much of your information is just plain wrong, and as for the rest of it, that is just your opinion, not based on fact at all.
Don't listen to him.
And it's 29 days leave, not 27.

[Jetfella]

quality replies please,
douche bag,,yarp!:D

[Pat_Mustard]

Jetfella...

You are fairly accurate on some points,for me from what i can see the "management" and i use the term management loosely have lost the plot....

[Jetfella]

thats agreed.also,certain base "managers"are not present at the base,which is a real turn off for the hardworking crew members,theres an appalling brown nose culture at cityjet which is catching up on them.
those who work in lcy know what i mean,sycophancy and hypocricy are the order of the day in cityjet.Market forces have no respect for this,and this is why they will lose....by the way,anyone thinking of joining,for a more detailed breakdown on t and conditons,,pm me,I have lots of info which id prefer not to publish here,
ciao.

[Redline]

Sooo... Various pay figures have been mooted... 6.5 to 9k Euros... Is this net or gross??

[5Papa]

Douche Bag, 29 indeed, point taken!

Wrote a nice post to actually make Jetfella's post worthless but hey, connection went down and I don't have the power to type it again.. So hooray to hotel internet.

Summary: new people not getting their leave? Hmm give me some facts, please, since I got mine all the time and I am not a senior here.

Oh hey that's the summary which proves that this guy isn't worth listening to already!

But anyway, Red Line, captain's salary is indeed between 6,5K and 9 K a month NET. It is such a big difference because if your are a new captain with a relatively easy roster you get 6,5K, but if you are more senior and get called on a couple of days off (for which you will get 500E NET a day extra), than the amount on your payslip can rise to 9K NET a month, yes.

Don't hesitate to ask any more questions,

happy landings

[lulu75]

5PAPA, you are just very lucky to be LCY based. I am really not trying to make make WX look bad. I am being totaly honest. I can tell you that new captains in CDG do not make 6.5 K a month. Its 6 k working max duty time.Of course we are not talking about captains who have been there for 10 years, instructors, line checkers... But how many are they ? And they have to apply for their leaves a year in advance which is often refused already a year in advance. LCY is an other airline in WX.
Its a fact ! WX has its good sides but...

[5Papa]

You're right Lulu. But seriously, a captain's basic gross salary is at least E60.000 a year, so plus at leassst E2000 NET sector pay a month you will get 6K.

But anyway, let's not focus on this amount..

And again you are right that I am lucky to be in LCY, lucky as well that it suites me.

[Jetfella]

Good Luck to the guys and girls, Flight deck and Cabin Crew,who have embarked on their Labour Court case in France this week.19 hard workers,who have been faced with no choice,Indicative of employee management relations in this company,Bonne chance.you all deserve every success.I will keep you posted on here as to developments,let justice take its course,
Ciao.

[Teddy Robinson]

From personal experience.

Leave is applied for on the intranet, if the dates appears in the right color you would think that the leave will be ok.

It remains unconfirmed until the issue of the roster containing your leave dates which makes booking anything a gamble.

If your leave dates straddle two rosters: ie you have booked two weeks but only have one confirmed, there is no avenue available to find out if you will be required for duty at the end of you first weeks leave until you leave the beach, log onto the intranet and look at your new roster.

Leave is indeed tagged onto ones days off without consultation: so your annual leave is now at Cityjet's complete convenience.

Colleagues have been given leave, booked holidays, and had the leave withdrawn by email some weeks later.

Tax regime: The French revenue are understandably upset that french Nationals, living and working in France pay their taxes to the Irish government.

Does the company for one moment believe that the UK Inland revenue will take a different view given that crew members do not comply with the 90 day rule ?

A base is a base, and within the EU that is not negotiable !

[lfrk]

cityjet = very, very good money even for a F/O, cool plane or funy is better ! and very good first experience and that's it.

A lot of weird points for a medium airline like cityjet and own by a urge one (A/L, Roster, communication, crewing) should be fixed but it's not gonna change they just don't care I think, so get experience, few hundreds, hours on jet and leave.....to an other with other problems...

but obviously when you don't have a job it's just fantastic to start with....and then you have a roster, you call crewing....and blablabla....

[zorglub]

having an interview with cityjet in few days for a DEC.
I am looking for informations about this interview and then the selection process.
If somebody can help !
thanks a million .

[Jetfella]

Hi Zorglub,
usually psychometric tests,appr0x 6,verbal reasoning,mathematical comprehension,spatial orientation.Very straightforward,and of course as we all know,,if your brilliant and score in the hi 90s,you wont get hired!,aim for mr average pilot,somewhere in the middle.Anyway,the tests are not a big deal.
Interview,usually with the chief bottle washer,and someone from HR.No technical questions,coz neither are tech minded.If your experienced they will be desperate for you to join,and thus will bombard you with promise about fixed rosters,free flights,loadsa time with your family etc etc...,,its quite transparent,and all bull.
If your a family guy,,,not the company for you.Single?,dont mind not getting A/L,and no fixed roster?,you might just like it.
London is where the big demand is for left seaters,but a disastrous base.(apart from the great crew there,who are now being blamed for delays etc,duh,,see rj tech ,see dispatchers!),
interesting to see the reaction to cityflyer starting LCY/DUB 3 times daily,and NICE.An expensive failure LCY,need any more pmme,,ciao...za

[Pat_Mustard]

whats the latest in cityjet....gone very quiet here.....jetfella any news for us???

[Mr Angry from Purley]

jetfella
If your a family guy,,,not the company for you. Strange, 2 Pilots i know leaving my airline for that reason, time off with family etc, hope not the grass is green job :\

[Jetfella]

:confused:I believe the common thread for 95% of us 35-45yr old guys and gals,is the desire for quality of life.What does it mean?,a balance on giving what you can to your employer,and getting your down time in return,and a reasonable expectation that you will get a/l,and also that you wont be called on your days off with changes etc.Basically a chance to forget your a Pilot/Cabin Crew,for a few precious days,before returning to work refreshed,and not confrontational.
Few companies can achieve this ideal,but quite a lot have realised they need to keep the folks upfront sweet,and have improved conditions for employees.
Cityjet do no such thing unfortunately.Maybe its because they have hands full with legal actions left right and centre,maybe they are pressurising crewing staff too much.Whatever the reason,they,make a whole lotta promises and deliver diddly squat.The company is in a mess unfortunately,and it stems from the "air france" mentality.Meaning,historically,big brother has been there with wads of cash to bail em out.This is no longer the case in these days of rising fuel costs and fierce competition my friends!
You cant buy pilots nowadays,the lifestyle thing has to fit.
How many capts and f/os have had to scream down the fone,or be screamed at on a regular basis,when in fact,a simpler way exists.Noone in wx is smart enough to see this big picture.There exist a large band of merry men and women called "HR" at Wx,their job?,well,,thats the embarrassing bit,shuffle a pen between coffee breaks,catch the latest gossip,hang out in the corridor.It has never occurred to anyone of them apparently what HR actually means.
The top ten companies to work for,know exactly what it means.
Sure,not everyone is gonna be happy all the time,but a compromise can exist between company and employee,hence my reason for saying wx is not for a family guy/gal.
Perfect for a 250hr cadet,twentysomething,single,cut off my right hand for a job...but alas for the more experienced pilots,its just not an option,
anyway,its such a shame,because a smart whizzkid could stir that place up,but its not gonna happen.
too many dinosaurs......ciao za

[ragnarok]

One day or another you reap what you sow...

[ragnarok]

By the way, Jetfella there are now 22 people taking them to court in Paris. The investigation by the Gendarmerie des Transports Aeriens under the supervision of the O.C.L.T.I ( Office Centrale de lutte contre le travail illegal ) is still taking place : auditions of Paris based crew in ORY as well as CDG, Cityjet is slowly starting to pay for the C.R.P.N (retirement pension in France)... to quote a song : "Finally the tables are starting to turn
Talkin' bout a revolution"

[cityworld]

whats happening in wx all is quiet at the moment did the employees have success in there court case against the company?.has the conditions improved

[Serenity]

Can anyone (particularly f/o`s) give me an idea of salaries, rosters, nightstops, future plans at LCY??

Cheers
Serenity.

[lfrk]

Salary between 2500 and 5000 euros depends on experience for and S/O or F/O,

roster depends on months sometimes you're lucky guy so it's perfect sometimes you're the feelings to be the really bad guy just crap.

Roster now it's 4,5 or 6,7 days trip because we take over the paris network..a lot of overnights 12-16 a months a least till november (next schedule change) usually 6ON 3OFF depends, but guaranty for cpt and F/0 with 6 months in the company, S/O are F....ked

future euh the communication is so bad in the company that no one knows nothing !! even at the top of the management, AF gives orders and Cityjet does what AF wants !! it's the reallity the management people have 0 power.

Otherwise it's really good to start, as I said or wrote before get hours, APTL or commands, money and leave for bigger !! you cannot plan for age too unstable.

Good luke

[DinoCraft9]

I recently attended to the non aviation aptitude tests and what u can expect is just the common psichometric test, 4 parts plenty of numerical (not too difficult and reasonable time), then the sequences of 4 pictures and u gotta guess the next, then comes mechanical (ex: a system consisting of 3 gears with one of them given a cw o ccw movement and u must determine the way the last one will spin...) basicaly phisics grafical exercises and the last part the spatial (they show u a given geometric form in flat paper and then 4 possible views of the..say a cube and you choose the only one correct
After these 30 min coffee break and finally the personality questionaire, some 190 questions like 'I prefer stay at home and do some work on my own' or 'You cannot trust anyone cause they'll always deceive you' or sort of... The last 10 or 12 qs are verbal reasoning which weren't too hard neither (...even for me; a non english native)

The whole session was conducted by a friendly HR person, nice and easy going morning...

Results are ready in a week or so and if succesful they contact u quite in a short time for an interview...

Don't know what's next as haven't got any further (yet, I hope...)

I hope this helps, good luck!

[Mister Geezer]

Top tip... if you are thinking of joining CityJet then do so as a contractor and not as a employee. Far better deal as a contractor regarding rosters and the general quality of life.

[JonnyTheCrayfish]

no jacket or tie required, this directly from Ms Black :ok:

[acebaxter]

I would wear what I thought the interviewers would be wearing. If you are overdressed it's easy to lose the jacket and tie. If you are underdressed it can be difficult to find one on short notice.

In my 18 months as a contractor there I never saw management at the office with an open collar.

Just food for thought. Best of luck on the career.

[leftbank]

Based on my experience - good advice Ace. Interviewers had ties, jackets on back of chairs. Not sure that they were "Chief Cook and Bottle Washers", or even HR, as suggested elsewhere, seemed to know a bit about flying aircraft. A warm up few minutes on the CV for starters, why interested in CityJet etc. some operating scenarios leading to technical discussion, check on hours and quals, run through Ts&Cs. Friendly enough, hard to gauge success/fail.

[Happy Wanderer]

I've been asked to post a couple of Qs by a mate (honest!) who's got an interview lined up at LCY with Citijet.

* What's the typical take-home pay (ie after tax, assuming it IS taxed!) for SOs and FOs?

* Do you have to self-fund RJ type rating training costs?

* If not, what are the bonding arrangements?

Cheers,

HW

[5Papa]

You don't have to fund it yourself. You will be bonded for three years for total sum of 25.000E. So if you leave after one year you'll have to pay 16.666E, if you leave after two years you pay 8.888E.

For new SO's, first three months you get 1.000E net a month. Next three months ca. 2.500E net a month. Next six months ca. 3000E net a month.

FO's (so with at least 1500 hrs and ATPL): add to every figure about 1.000E.

[Chirpy Pilot]

Do most of the crews have a touring roster, ie can you apply for max night stops or minimum night stops. I have an interview cominig up for a direct entry command, and my main concern will be time away. Does Cityjet night stop in Birmingham. Thanks in advance

[5Papa]

LCY and DUB people are on tours alot indeed. So 4, 5 or even 6 day trips. You can't really apply for max or min nightstops. So yes you will be away alot probably. CityJet does nightstop in BHX.

[Teddy Robinson]

is pretty much minimum rest though, as are most, if not all of them.
The working pattern will ALWAYS have you starting early on your first day and finishing late on your last, so forget commuting, the flights will have left.
Efforts to change that with the rostering department will prove completely futile, they will tell you what you want to hear, and serve up the same dish, and that culture permiates the company like the logo on Brighton rock. :ugh:

[Mister Geezer]

If you want to commute the join as a contractor. Otherwise you will struggle.

[brownstone]

yep, we are away alot. If LCY based we do up to 6 nights away tours. Not good really especially with young family/want to be at home for nights.

I have had 13 nights away some rosters.

Ask to see a sample roster at interview and make your decision that way, don't take their word for it!!

[Jetfella]

Very true Brownstone,
the current pilot recruitment smacks of very thinly disguised desperation,the company has acquired a very bad name amongst the flight deck community,and for good reason.Management are spending their time on "feel good" experiments,like the childish tv station Voracity,and the equally ridiculous,ticker tape, kiss me quickly,"Synchronicity"(dont ask!),like peeing down your leg,nice warm feeling,but not very useful.Oh and I forgot to mention,Christen the kitchen!,,mmm,what about bums on seats,and trying to accomodate or compromise with your staff?
Poor organisation,with a lot of fools at the top,I hear Geneva is next for the chop?.
cioa za.

[Sergeant Pepper]

jetfella,as always u hit the nail on the head!from what i hear voracity is a toy for certain members of management.like you have said there are plenty of fools at the top of the management tree who must have attended the Basil Fawlty school of management at some stage in their illustrious careers and passed with "flying" colours.

[lfrk]

next base geneva ??? where have you heard that ???

[Jetfella]

No,not a base,tipped to be dropped from the LCY schedule,folllowing in the footsteps of Madrid,Milan,and Belfast city.Airfrance were tolerant with WX in the good times,but belts are being tightened everyhwere,and Paris is increasingly frustrated with WX,"the emperor has no clothes"!

[5Papa]

Isn't it kind of normal to drop routes which aren't that great and use those a/c's for the moneymakers?

By the way, seemed that WX already visited AMS to investigate i.e. hotel options.. Winter roster: LCY-AMS, DUB-AMS (AerLingus' contract finishes..)?

[Sergeant Pepper]

I seriously doubt wx have the crews to cover the DUB-AMS LCY-AMS rotation.crew been called on days off to cover flights is increasing..they just dont have the numbers.in saying that DUB-AMS would be a great alternative to the Aer Lingus set up.

[Jetfella]

Thats right,this AMS scenario has been mooted for at least the last three years,also this triangular sector set-up.A very excitable management figure told me about it 15 months ago.The crews are not available,nor the aircraft.The dumping of unprofitable routes ex LCY does not free up aircraft for other routes,things are tight.The scot aircraft cant do it.
Also,I believe Aer Lingus are in negotiations to develop the route ex Dub when the KLM contract ends.Competition is fierce right now,WX are lost,drifting,incapable of action.BA wont be sitting round either,look at their new Dub route,the loads are good by all accounts,and when they start Paris -lcy.....someone is playing the fiddle while rome burns...
ciao za

[Visual Calls]

If Aer Lingus can offer KLM connecting pax at the same price cityjet would charge, don't think there's much chance of cityjet getting a deal. The pax will always prefer a new A320 to a smelly old 146. Considering the A320 burns about half the fuel per pax/mile than a 146, somethings gotta give somewhere.

[Sergeant Pepper]

WX have the smelly new RJ's now.The146's are somebody else's problems now,but from what i have heard the RJ's are just as tempremental as the 146's.Great British engineering old chum!

[Jetfella]

yes,another one tech in paris today,currently 5 hours late!,wonderful machines!,its a bonus if the apu is operational,Ive travelled on a few and its usually stifling hot.On a recent european flight with the temperature at 30 deg c,the captain waited till everyone was on,sweating profusely,doors closed before saying,"Unfortuantely we have a slot 50 minutes from now,and I realise your all very hot back there,so Im going to start the apu and cool you down".I couldnt believe my ears,and nor could the hefty ticket buyers.Mind you the little bag of prezels really made up for it!

[152wiseguy]

which apu? aren't there 5 of them on that thing? :}:}

[Jetfella]

hehe.well 4 of them are hair dryers!.apparently they got these cheap!,now we know why,also the autopilots usually dont work,so even if they needed it,they couldnt do cat111 for that and a variety of other tech issues.
Anyway,Ive just heard some ominuous news for WX(from a usually spot on source),watch the next 2 weeks.I sincerely hope the management fools are sacrificed this time,and not the hard working Crew.I suspect this is a turning point though,and yes its wrapped up with poor reliability,and this lemon of an aircraft,and incompetence,and everyone leaving,,,etc etc.
ciao za.

[Douche Bag]

Been flying the RJ since cityjet got them and not once has the autopilot been inop. So don't know where you're getting your facts from jetfella. Me thinks you're not even a pilot. So what's the news you have? prob more hearsay/rumours that the airline industry likes to throw out all the time.

[acebaxter]

I flew those aircraft since they were new. Never had any major reliability problems with them. Flew the same ones at CityJet as well, again with no major reliability problems. With over 7000 hours on those exact aircraft I don't think the autopilot was inop more than a few days for any operations I was involved in. Go figure.

Best of luck to all of you at WX.

[wxjedi]

Well said ace.

I have never flown the RJ as I moved on long before they arrived. I do have about 5000hrs on the 146 though and even that had the AP U/S only about 1% of the time. I've since flown B757, B747 and A320. All have the same snags except the Airbus.
The reports on the RJ are very good so I do not know where this info is coming from.

Sounds like WX bashing to me. Get a life and move on folks.

Tom

PS going for a spin in the RJ sim in a couple of weeks and I'll report back.

[5Papa]

Jetfella.. don't drag others in the misery you are in, will ya.. :D

[Sergeant Pepper]

Sorry 5Papa i think jetfella speaks alot of truth.the truth hurts sometimes.Sadly wx is not the best place to be at the moment. Im sure every airline has its up's&downs,but the truth is things are been mis-managed on a daily basis & good hard working people are getting the flak for it.

[sickoftheWXbashers]

Sgt Pepper.

To you and all the Cityjet bashers I say get a life!

Unlike most of the posters to this column, I actually work for Cityjet and have for over 5 years. I work hard and enjoy it. I get paid well. I do not have a hidden agenda unlike the knockers.

There has been a lot of pilots who left in the last year or two. Mainly for long haul or to Air France or Aer Lingus. More power to them. There are also those who left because they felt that they were victims (usually having failed command checks or being demoted from a training job) This second group think that it was everyones elses fault except their own. I guess their type exist in every airline.

These are the facts:

Reasonably well paid (I get about €9000 per month into my hand)
Pension plan.
Loss of licence, income continuence, medicals, uniforms etc all paid for.
Brilliant staff travel with Air France for me and my family.
Fixed roster 6 on 3 off when you are there a while.
Transparent leave system
Paid from day 1.
Bonded for 3 years.
Good routes (would have prefered AMS to Knock but my cross wind landings will probably improve)

If you want a job in a secure airline - join us!
If you want reasonably good pay - join
If you want a great introduction to the airline business - join
If you want to work hard - join
If you have a sense of humour - join (I like a bit of a laugh on the flight deck)
If you are a whinging moaner - join somewhere else.

The management have taken a whipping on this thread. In my opinion, it is not deserved. Better them than me. I just fly!

To those of you who reply with 'facts' based on bar talk and rumour - I care not a jot!

To those who have said good things about us - thanks.

I am proud of this little Irish success story and will continue to do all I can to ensure its continued success.

Safe flying.:O

[acebaxter]

sickoftheWXbashers (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/261690-sickofthewxbashers)

Check your PM's

[lfrk]

get the job, get hours, save a bit of money and leave wx ASAP for a bigger fish !!!

things are getting better but its so unstable !! no garanty at all, look at what happenned for paris base people, there are just nothing for the management.

Expect in DUB, obviously office is there!! LCY is not safe as well, AF can close the base if WX not getting better, load are low and there is too much concurence!! AF is gonna stop investment for all AF-KLM companies and wait to the end of fuel crise. For us everything can happen...even been getting fire for (alomost) nothing...

Good start for young F/O, new captains are a bit desapointed, promesses done by HR are not there!!!
They're in deeply **** for CPT, but I won't tell any guy to come (as CPT)

As senior FO I do 4200 a month after tax and 50 flying hours.

Irish success story?? thanks AF for all the money they put in it...without AF the company would have been down years ago specially with our management....AF invest in us to avoid to pay tax in france that it!!!

[Sergeant Pepper]

sickofthewxbashers

who's pulling your strings???????

[Jetfella]

sickofthe bashers,you obviously do "care a jot",otherwise you wouldnt have joined with the purpose of placing your ad on the same day.
Bully for you if your happy,fill your boots!,there are lots of happy people,particularly with the great humor on the flightdeck!Credit the Pilot body with some intelligence in making their decision to join,which you seem desperate for them to do.Do you think the rumor network is a huge percentage of their decision making process?Obviously.

[blackred1443]

i am gladsickofwxbashers you enjoy it so much but with all due respect a 6 0n 3 0ff pattern is hardly any good, when the industry standard is 5/4 at ryanair or 5/3/54 at easy.also i hear you can finish on a late on start on an early quite a bit .as for the leave system being transparent, it was also transparent when i was there to be fair, i could always see that my leave was pending!pending what i never quite knew and that was the problem.
the money is quite good to be fair but the problem is quite a high percentage of it still seems to come from sector pay and overnights and i really dont think that 12 night plus in hotels provides a desirable quality of life. more to life than cash!
As for the other things than are offered e.g medicals paid for,pensions etc, to be honest. Again industry standard, most places give that. Not really deal breaker.
And another thing!!, i think referring to the victims! as you put it is very unfair. in my time there,there were people that were demoted from training posts but can you honestly tell me that wx management were not using their powers to bully people. or using commands to make a point, the point usually being challenge their appallinging lack of man management skills and be dealt with in a very under hand manner. that for me was the biggest problem with wx. colleagues were great but some senior management seem to think that the best way to deal with someone who tries to stand up for themselves is to make their life hell.Not good.
Your right though in one thing, wx is a good place to start and good staff travel, but for me and countless others, i reckon over 80 % of the company who worked there in my time and from what i hear still a similiar percentage, thats were its good points ended.That for me was the shame because with more skilled management i think it could have been a superb place to work. well thats what i think anyway!

Sick of wx bashers genuinely do think your reference to the 'victims' is not fair when you know, and you should know if you are there 5 years plus.there were nearly always other more sinister factors involved

[Douche Bag]

Well said sickofwxbashers. I like yourself have been there quite a while and am happy and agree with all you said. The guys slating WX are most likely guys who failed commmand assesments or are passed up for other promotions and usually with good reason. So to those out there looking at WX don't listen to a word on prune and just talk to some of the guys in there if you can and make up your own mind because 99% of the stuff said here is Bull****.

It is what you make it and it is a good place to work if you want it to be. :ok:

[jimmy391]

I have watched this thread for quite a while, with a growing sense of frustration. The vast majority of what is posted, is, in most cases completely incorrect. In many others there is a shread of truth manipulated by some bitter, ill-informed and depressed individual who has nothing better to do than moan. I have looked at many of the posts on other threads by these same individuals, and I would seriously suggest counseling for you. If you are not pilots in CItyjet,then you know F. all about Cityjet. If you are, time for a career change, this one does not suit you.
Cityjet like all airlines is far from perfect, but it is still a great place to work. I know I work there, and have done for quite a while, and intend to for the forseeable future. I wont gratify the moaners to explain why it is, because they wont accept what I say even though I am here, and have first hand experience right up to date, they would prefer to whine and whinge some more, and tell you something someone said to them somewhere, which is about as useful and insightful as they are.
Sickof the WXbashers said it far more elequently than I could.
Regards to all of my fine colleagues at cityjet.:D

[ragnarok]

I think it is fair to say that not everyone shares the same point of view. Most of the flight crew are a pleasure to work with "regardless of nationality or base" and before november 07 many people were reasonably happy.
I have also been here a long time "more than 4 years", the money is quite good but is it the only thing to consider ?
Why couldn't things be changed to improve things instead of hitting the road?
You don't expect a thank you from anyone even though you work hard and you would appreciate it.
Even if you're well paid when your bosses denigrate what you do on a regular basis it generally doesn't make you happy.
What happens when you're of a certain nationality and you hear "f...ing ....." tell me how would you feel about it ?
Why have people from the different bases been so divided ?
Here's a few explanations : different wages, different rosters, different treatment.
Unfortunately ignorance and cultural missunderstandings have done the rest!
Unless you're blind and even if you're not directly concerned by the problem you can't ignore what others are going through, or have been through.
Isn't it true to say that there is an urgent need for change within CityJet. Instead of Management telling people they can leave, if problems occur, wouldn't be more professional to listen to what people have to say and act accordingly or at least try ?
In Paris the feeling is that everyone will be kicked out by the end of the year.
A few of us believe that CityJet is worth fighting for, it can become a better company in which to work!
Regardless of what you think is true, we do love CityJet, our jobs and our colleagues.
Here is a tract handed out by the CGT "a french union" to CityJet employees" I think it speaks for itself :

PROTECT YOUR EMPLOYMENT IN PARIS

Following the many means of pressure that the management of CITYJET wholly owned subsidiary of AIR FRANCE-KLM and the dismissal of our two colleagues who are now without any social protection, it is time for us to fight and to stop accepting harassment from our managers.

For a little bit of added humor during an announcement, our two colleagues were chosen as an exemple to remind us that at some point our Paris base will be coming to an end one way or an other.
Presently, our colleagues are left on their own with no unemployment benefits and no basic health coverage, leaving them with limited means to pay their bills and provide themselves with their basic needs.
It is a reminder that anyone can suffer from this type of abuse, and whatever the reason!
CITYJET will use any excuse to get rid of their Paris based employees.


STOP THE UNFAIR TREATMENTS, TIME TO FIGHT!!!

It is urgent that we unite to create a strong union branch within CITYJET. Together let's join the CGT which is the only union which supports us.
In the past, this union questioned several times our unacceptable conditions. It is up to each and everyone one of us to claim back our professional future and our basic rights.
The membership to the union is anonymous and can be made through CGT 6, Route des Anniversaires _Zone technique Bât 7595 BP 11113 _ 95701 Roissy CDG Cedex Tel 01 48 62 10 28. Union Locale CGT de l'aéroport Roissy-CDG (http://www.ulcgtroissy.fr)
Thanks to everyone's membership we will elect a union representative in order to get a CE (Commité d'Entreprise), and elect staff representatives. Together we will improve our individual and collective rights.


Our goals are clear :

• Maintain our CITYJET base at the Paris CDG airport.
• Make sure that AIR FRANCE-KLM President Mr Jean-Cyril SPINETTA's word about getting our French contract is adhered too.
• Make sure that our most basic rights are applied by CITYJET's management (maternity leave, sick leave, profit share, social and retirement coverage, union protection and better work conditions).
• Stop the harassment and put an end to unfair disciplinary measures.

TOGETHER WE WILL BE RESPECTED

[emb-145]

Hi there, was hoping to get some info from Cityjet FO's regarding typical rosters, nightstops, disruptions, salary etc. if you are based at LCY? Feel free to pm me.

Look forward to hearing from you,

145

[needs-must]

Not wishing to open a new can worms but has anyone any feedback good or bad on contract pilots.
I know this is often an emotive point but i am considering the possibility of putting my self forward through an agent to work for CJ
How are contractors treated ? and do they get the same rosters etc. I would like to hear from existing contractors

Obviously no-one makes a descision based on what is said here but........it is good to hear from others

[yoland]

May i ask if you are a contract pilot with Cityjet as i have colleague also a Cpt in your company who works equally as hard but has yet to earn anything close to 9000euro/month. :cool:

[cessnagirl]

I'm renewing my MEIR at the moment and I'll defo be applying to WX once I'm done. No idea where to send cv though. I'd give my right arm to work for them. Actually, that may not be a good idea.:}

As for those guys bashing companies that told them to foxtrot oscar, move on. Next! There's a job out there for you somewhere and it's going to happen sometime.;)

[ragnarok]

Just to make a point :

We love CityJet but we need unions now !

By the way... I'm not bashing the company.:)

[lfrk]

we will see when you will be in (cityjet or any other companies) !! have fun...
9000 for a contractor is true but no staff travel, no fix 6/3 roster, no loss of licence, no almost nothing ! As normal captain with no housing allowance between 6500 and 8000 maximun I would say.

[CHECHE]

I am going to have a sim assessment August 1st.
Does anyone know what can I expect??

Regads,

[macflea]

hi guys,
i see a lot of ye have been called for sim assesments at the moment ,a bit confused ,are they still recruiting first officers ? i have seen ads for dec captains .i did send my cv (me/cpl/ir/250 hours) in and was told that they didnt have any positions for my experiance only then to see a week later they are recruiting self sponsored students through sigmar and fte.i know several guys that got same response.any thoughts?
cheers macflea

[DinoCraft9]

Hi there,

to those waiting for the sim assesment what u can expect is a rather straight forward session (45 mins) with a cap that won't help u much but at least tells u so in advance. He'll be looking for CRM attitude, basic flying skills and radionav. You'll be given some sid and approach plates (LGW in my case) to have a look for about 15 min. prior to the session, then you'll have'em back when your turn comes. Normal sid, basic manouvers once reaching 4000' then dct to a vor, holding, n-1 but just to see how you control the plane (no qrh, drills whatsoever) ils and landing. No secrets nor misteries, just do the work. He wants u to mantain speed, bank angle, vert speed but he'll take into account your previous experience (jet, type, ...)
I passed although I consider I made some mistakes!
Wish u good luck!

Regarding the recruiting what I can say is that I applied for a FO position, have >1500 TT and >500 jet, I passed the selection process and I'm in, so I guess that they might be choosing the candidates, and as long as they have people with this sort of profile they won't take less. I don't really know if they've been recruiting low houred FOs (<1000TT)

Good luck to u too!

[CHECHE]

Thanks for info..

Just to let all of you know I have 1000 TT (300 Turbo Prop) so maybe they are not looking for very low experience pilots.

I hope to do it well in the SIM.

Cheers.

Dinocraft9 when are you going to start your training??

[toomuchtimeintheair]

What is the process for DEC at present, Is it Interview and Sim or is there also Aptitude testing. Also what sim are they now using RG or 737 in Dublin ?

Many Thanks

[toomuchtimeintheair]

Or maybe even the RJ !

[DinoCraft9]

toomuchtimeintheair,
I don't know about capt selection process, for FO is all that you said and the sim is RJ, they rarely use the 737...as they said.

Good luck!

[toomuchtimeintheair]

Thanks DinoCraft9

[nheke]

Hola!!!
I was called for an interview about one month ago but at that time I couldn´t go. I have 1700TT, which 1450 are Turboprop hours, so what can I expect? Senior or normal F/O? Where are they doing the personal selection? And the sim? Any idea about the charts for the sim?
Thanks from spain

[XLNL]

If you've got your ATPL -> F/O, with frozen ATPL -> S/O
Which makes a big difference in pay since an S/O gets a paycut in the first year of employment, if you get your ATPL during the first year you'll automatically become F/O with full pay. With your hours you might be lucky and get grade 2 pay, but normally you only get that with >2000hrs.
See: ppjn (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=zw6x4a5vkrjakxsyj6hj4qkf4uk0qtraanx5ksnu4uuc f70q31w) (some info outdated)
Selection process usually in Dublin heard they sometimes use London. Don't know if they still use Paris.
Sorry can't help you with those charts...

[nheke]

Thanks for your help!! All info is welcome.

[crap pilot]

What bases are available for a new SO? Is it just LCY and DUB?

[5Papa]

Affirm. Choose LCY :ok:

[sidewinder1224]

Hi everyone, i just want to know if there's a possibility for me to apply with cityjet or in any European airline. I have my CPL license under ICAO and I am planning to convert my license and take the 14 exams (JAR). I have a total 1600 hours (1200Hours on turbo prop multi and 400 hours on single engine). I am employed at the moment and I fly an average of 75hours per month. I just want to seek advice regarding the conversion of license and the procedures so I could have an idea how it goes.. I would appreciate if someone could guide me.. Thank you in advance for the time..

[Control Abnormality]

Hey sidewinder,
I also had a icao cpl but I couldn't find a job with it so I converted it to a JAA licence and after a job flying a light twin I ended up at CityJet.
If you have the right to live and work in Europe it makes it a lot easier. I stand to be corrected but I think that if you were to have a full atpl in the country that you were converting from and you had the requirements for a JAA ATPL I think you only have to do a few of the exams and I think the flying required is reduced and you would gain a full JAA atpl. If not you'll have to sit all 14 exams and then do the flying- cpl is training as required and the ir is a minimum of 15 hours. I did my ground school www.bristol.gs (http://www.bristol.gs/) and converted www.bfctraining.co.uk (http://www.bfctraining.co.uk/)- both really good.
I really enjoy going to work, and you'll fly with some excellent crews.
Hope that helps, good luck
Cheers

[sidewinder1224]

Thank you for the info control abnormality, yes i am eligible to live and work in e.u. I came back here in my native land to gain experience i hope to be back in ireland.. Cheers.

[5Papa]

... I ended up at CityJet...

Nice phrase CA :) c u around for some PES