Do we need Secondary Radar?

[Dont Hang Up]

Whilst there will always be a place for primary radar to spot those non-cooperative types, and the flocks of geese on final, are the days of secondary radar numbered?
With a steadily increasing proportion of the aircaft population broadcasting position over ADS-B, and the ability to passively confirm the veracity of those transmissions using multilateration techniques, are we now moving into the end game for SSR?

[niknak]

Do we need secondary radar?

The simple answer is yes.

Many regional airports get their SSR feeds from NATS radars, but many of those regional airports will only upgrade their own radars as and when absolutely necessary, so the benefit of ADS-B wont necessarily be available to everyone for a very long time to come.

[BDiONU]

You might be surprised to know that NATS would prefer to do away with primary radar.

BD

[Dont Hang Up]

I can appreciate the strong commercial pressure for that.
But for the moment PSR is still part of the EUROCONTROL Surveillance Standard - at least for TMA.

[BDiONU]

And NATS MoD customers want PSR as well ;)

[Lurking123]

Emphasis on the word "customer", please BD. :)

[BDiONU]

Emphasis on the word "customer", please BD. :)
Wot only one person in MoD wants PSR? ;)

BD

[GetTheFlick]

The FAA has been trying to get rid of primary for years. 9/11 dampened their enthusiasm for a few years. Now they just want to get rid of it at the Centers.

[JustaFew]

Very interested to know that NATS wish to do away with primary radar. If that is the case, would like to see/hear their justification when put to SRG, and what system/s are in place to detect CAS infringers.

[Spitoon]

Very interested to know that NATS wish to do away with primary radar. If that is the case, would like to see/hear their justification when put to SRG, and what system/s are in place to detect CAS infringers.Probably one not dissimilar to that which they used when they wanted to do away with PSR each time in the en-route radar network.

Then again, given all the filtering, plot extraction and processing that goes on in a modern radar I'm surprised that a spamcan ever paints (or, sorry, just showing my age) presents a target from PSR!

[Radarspod]

SSR is supposed to be the way that CAS infringers are spotted. The CAA are in the middle of consultation on changes to transponder carriage requirements, and there are plans to extend the carriage to aircraft or airspace (mandatory carriage zones) not currently covered. Won't stop any muppet flying into CAS, but should help catch a few more.

Also, ADS-B is way off being any use, until the various standards bodies actually agree on the the specs. The current ADS-N environment is dubious to say the least.

SSR is going to have to stick around for a while, ADS-B is wholly dependent on the aircraft telling who and where it is. Also, getting all the Enhanced Surveillance data out of the aircraft (Selected Altitude, etc) is much easier using SSR.

[Token Sane Person]

I guess NATS would probably like to get rid of Primary Radar as it does cost, in the same way as I'd like to stop buying petrol. Yes I could, but I'm going to have to figure out an alternative first.

ADS-B is, erm, on our radar, but there are a lot of issues to be sorted out first, not least of which is its spoofability. See http://www.aviationtoday.com/av/categories/bga/6113.html. People are talking about multilateration (timing the arrival of signals at multiple sites) to prevent spoofing, but thats not available yet.

[mgahan]

Multilateration has been around for some time and is entirely consistent with the definition of "ATS Surveillance System" now in Doc 4444.

AustroControl has been using it for the Innsbruck Valley since 2003. AsA are deploying it for surveillance of Tasmanian airspace and for additional coverage in the Sydney TMA. It's been used as part of ASMGCS systems worldwide for years and is being installed now for use for PRM (Sydney and others).

Cooperating aircraft only need to have a transponder capably of emitting on 1090MHz so there's no need for new aircraft equipment for the majority of the world's fleets.

And Multilat receivers are also ADS-B receivers so it acts as the "bridge" to the next generation.


MJG