Ryanair Advert In Flight

[saddest aviator]

Have you all seen the latest recruitment advert in Flight International!
I am intrigued to know how the creative accounts department can peddle the lies that Ryanair Captains can make 100k gross after grossed up sector pay. The UK basic is less than 50k so that means sector pay is also around 50k. Surely this is worth reporting to advertising standards !:eek::\

[737]

They also don't mention you'll be working for Brookfield and not Ryanair.

[asuweb]

Surely this is worth reporting to advertising standards

Instead of :mad: on here, why not report it then?!!:ugh:

[thebeast]

I think its possible it would have to be a Brookfield Captain on a floating base so they pay there own hotels etc.

150 euros an hour times 900 equals 135,000 euroes which equals 100,000 pounds roughly.

[jazzcat2000]

As an ordinary line Captain based in Stansted I get sector pay of £24 per hour after tax - paying 40% that equates to £40 before tax.

860 hrs per year * £40 34,400
Basic pay 58,000
Allowance for parking, uniform etc. 5,000
Company matches our pension contribution up to 5,000

My total pay £102,400

I also have a fixed roster of five days on followed by four days off and normally a few home standbys as well.

For this I am quite happy to take my own water and food into work.

[checkcheck]

If he is a high rate tax payer(which he is after his basic) is not 40% correct,or more if you take into account Nat ins?If Ryan pay this on Capt's behalf,and give him £24 net,it is equivalent to at least £40.

[UK Viking]

As an ordinary first officer on probation, been with Ryanair for about 8 months based in Stansted, my sector pay is 19,60 £ equals 32,66 £ before tax.

860 hrs per year * 32,66 = 28093 £
Basic pay: 28968 £
Allowance for parking, uniform etc. 5000 £
Ryanair matches my pension up to 2500 £

Total 64561 £

70.000 £ is what you can expect within some years.

Take home pay at 75 hrs average per month app. 3515 £

My 5/4 roster is the best deal I have ever had.

Rgds.

[the grim repa]

jazzcat and viking are you the same person?funny how you both do 860 hours and the style of post is the same.me thinks me smell a rat!!!quite pathetic really.must be getting desperate at hq.

[PyroTek]

possibly viking following jazzcats template in order to make comparison easier?

[jazzcat2000]

I most definately am only one person, I'm not management and the facts are as quoted.

There are some very sad individuals on here who try to twist everything to portray Ryanair in the worst possible light, imply that we all hate the job and want to leave when quite a lot of us are very happy here.

Ryanair is not the best employer but there are a lot worse out there and I've worked for some of them.

I am not in the least bothered how much tax Ryanair pay on my sector pay, I get £24 per hour AFTER tax and however you work it, if you are a high rate tax payer that definately equates to £40 before tax.

First officers do get a raw deal in comparison to Captains but after three or four years they get a command and then can have the higher pay for thirty or fourty years.

And yes, I am a BALPA member who wants union recognition.

[Fredairstair]

I think what folk are trying to say is that sector pay is not taxed the same way as basic pay. Only a percentage of sector pay (about one third?) is taxed.

Fred.

[ford cortina]

I was under the distinct impression that you paid for Uniform and there is no pension. At least thats my understanding of the Brookfield contract and there is no basic pay, either

[jazzcat2000]

That is correct for Brookfield contract pilots.

My details are for Ryanair Captain based at Stansted and paid in pounds sterling.

Captains and F/Os get £ 5,000 to cover cost of uniform, car park etc and this is £416.66 paid monthly.

The company match pension contributions for pilots up to £5,000 pa for Captains an up to £2,500pa for F/Os.

[Chocks Away]

Ok.
What's the deal with other bases?
Are the terms and conditions the same, with payment in local currency, or "adjusted":}
Leaves our job for dead, on 73's around the Pacific, especially with 5/4 off!

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

As Ryanair pay £40 sector pay, and our friend does 860 hours a year, earning 40x860 (£34400) can we deduce that Ryanair only fly 1 hour sectors?

[757_Driver]

but what does your contract say?

Do you get 24 pounds per hour net, regardless? So if the revenue decide to change the tax treatement of sector pay, do you still get 24 per hour (i.e the company pay the extra tax). If so then grossing up the sector pay is a reasonable method to generate a comparative salary.

However if the revenue decide to tax the sector pay, and your gross amount stays the same, and your net falls as you pay the extra tax, then grossing it up is a lie.

[jazzcat2000]

Our sector pay is given to us £24 per flying hour net.

Ryanair pay the tax, we do not have to pay any more and I am not in the least bothered how much they pay, all I know is that if I had any other job I would have to earn £40 to get £24 in my pocket.

This has been going on for many years so the UK inland revenue must be quite happy with the arrangement.

[autobrake3]

An airline which denies it's own crew water says it all regardless of crass nit picking over money. Pitiful airline.

[stansdead]

Jazzcat,

The HMRC can and do change the rules regularly. My company are currently in negotiations with them regarding our allowances.

In fact, our allowance scheme is having to change from May 2008 and it's been in place 20 odd years.

So, you should be bothered what Ryanair pay in Tax on your pay. Things can change and quickly.

Would O'Leary carry on paying you £24 net per hour if the tax man suddenly ups the amount O'Leary must pay him on your sector pay? I doubt it .....

It is well known that your Sector pay cheques come seperate to your wage slips each month. Its well known that its dodgy.

Be warned, the HMRC are chasing airlines regarding flying pay. Ryanair are no different and are not above UK law.

If I were you, I would think twice about just how secure your pay really is. We have had to, you might too.

[jazzcat2000]

This is my final comment on the subject.

I was trying to be helpful by reporting what a Ryanair Stansted Captain earns AT THE MOMENT.

I don't have a crystal ball and cannot predict what may happen in the future, quite honestly I live for today and tomorrow is just that, anything could happen.

I know a lot of people have great difficulty believing it but most Ryanair Captains are well paid, happy and enjoy their work.

[BongleBear]

jazzcat's right, i have never flown with a captain who isn't happy with their pay. ok, some say they could do with more and feel they might deserve more, but doesn't everyone?

yes, the tax situation could change, but if it was a case of no one having noticed sneaky ryanair, then it would have been dealt with by now. there's no law being broken by our sector pay being taxed at the source.

it's common knowledge that the new pay agreement wasn't to everyones liking, but the acutal pay- which this thread is about, is not as bad as people like to think.

as a non-brookfield fo at an english base i receive:

£19.20 per hour = say 800 hours per year =
£15360 - tax free = £18740 gross @ 22% tax

basic salary = £24329 (at 1500hrs JAR25 this goes to over £26k)
plus £5000 allowances
plus optional £2500 pension match by the company

= £45,574 per annum

if i fly 900 hours per year and have 1500hrs JAR25

= £55,082 per annum

empty water bottle = 20p per month
homemade sandwich = 50p per day
piece of fruit = 20p per day

= £255 per annum

now if the taxation of fruit, bread, ham and dairy products increases then i may start missing those fantastic crew meals and bottles of evian.

but for now, i can live with that

[Fredairstair]

It's not strictly true to say that in any other job you'd have to "earn £40 to get £24"

eg (in round figures)

£40 of sector pay - 30% of that is taxed, say £13.

40% of £13 is £5

£40 - £5 = £35 in your pocket.

(health warning!! these are back of a fag packet figures)

[Artie Fufkin]

Fredairstair, perhaps different airlines have different agreements with HMRC about the taxability of sector pay? My airline deducts marginal rate tax off sector pay, so jazzcat's assumption is correct, at least in my case.

Interesting to find out Ryanair give an allowance for uniforms and car parking. Having to pay for car parking yourself is always one of the things most people I fly with cite as a reason for not joining!

Still not at the top of my list of airlines to join though.

[CIPO]

Lets not fool ourselves here, 10 years ago the sector pay was the MORE than today. Dub based FO's were taking home £2700 punts plus basic!!! Now as far as i'm aware cars, property, milk etc is a tad more expensive now than it was in 1998.
Also it's all very well factoring doing 80-100hrs per month, cut that down to 50hrs & you won't be on the lash as much. Thats what's happening, all the cheaper newbee's get all the flying.
Also the new pay deal was 10% over 5 years on BASIC ONLY which is a 10% pay cut seeing as inflation is running @ 5% approx.
And finally MOL is starting to over crew the bases so as the ones who cost the company most get the least flying.

BTW this is all FACT so just think about how good it sounds now on 650-700hrs a year not 850-900!!!!

[wince]

CIPO is spot on. In the last 2 years I didn't even get to 800 hrs. New cadets or brookfield do most of the flying....

And guess what, nothing will stop MOL taking that 5k allowance from you very soon....

[checkcheck]

The fact is,the airline industry has evolved alot over the past 20 years.Pay and conditions have deteriorated in all airlines,not just Ryanair,so don't fool yourself.A BA Capt was earning more and working much less yesteryear with an amazing pension.Today it is different.That is not to say we shouldn't fight for our conditions or be happy with deteriorating pay.In Ryanair,the pay may not be keeping up with inflation,but today an experienced Ryan Capt at my base earns in excess of £6000 net per month,and works between 12 an 14 days.This may change,but for the time being,I am satisfied.Take the money,do something with it to secure your future.There are no jobs for life,get used to it.

[ThatsRight!]

DUB based capt - 5 yrs flying in airlines - equivalent pay of 132000euro. 5000euro i pay to pension, company matches at 5000euro = total 10000euro and get tax releif. 5 on 4 off roster fixed. know my days off for next year. Put up with some minor quibles. but good company to work for and in the downturn on the way the only secure job out there! how many guys earn that money after 5 yrs experience. :E

[the grim repa]

best job in the world for short term thinkers.with the big recruitment push about to start.get real here and see the company propoganda from the reality.how can you know your days off for next year when the roster becomes variable after december 31st.well i suppose if you are management you will have all weekends off.when the downturn does arrive you will see the money dry up and then you will have nothing coming.there is a world out there beyond your nose.losers!!!!

[potkettleblack]

MOL has consistently reduced the T&C's each year when FR has been making record profits. Lets see how it all pans out now he has issued a profit warning and is unhedged on fuel.

He loves cadets as they are a source of income from the day they walk in the door. Then they are not so profitable after a while and he gives the flying to cheaper pilots.

[ThatsRight!]

:ugh:Its true that during Jan to March they can give u 5on 3off but only 3 times in that period. But this is never used and has not being used this year on anyone I know.
Not a company man, but if anyone wonders why I and my fellow pilots stay here and put up with name calling etc. from members on this site for doing so, its due to the stable family time I enjoy with OKish pay.
With reference to remark above on downturn - probably true will get our 5000 euro allowance for uniform/loss of lisense etc. cut - but at least will b in a job.

[the grim repa]

you just cannot see it,can you?you and i are being set up for the mother of all falls.you are going to be hurt!!!

[captplaystation]

In between all the usual bitching that accompanies any Ryanair thread, a little titbit to consider.
I spoke recently with a "senior" colleague, who has survived 10 years of this. He has calculated that in the last 10 years in Ryanair his "real earnings" adjusted for inflation / some years with no pay rise / pay rise only on salary not sector pay / benefits removed etc etc was a PAY CUT of 40%. 4% per annum for a decade ladies and gents.
Yes Ryanair is NOT the worst, but given our financial sucess ( if you ignore the usual propoganda/spin ) it COULD and SHOULD be a whole lot better.
If only people would educate themselves, and stick together.
Oh well back to another useless daydream ho hum ho hum.

[easymoney]

5 Years at FR would mean you've enjoyed continued increases in salary year on year as you progressed through the ranks.

Probably experienced the feel good factor along the way as the roller coaster was going up, unfortunately you're at the top now and there's only one way "Actual Earnings" are going from here on in.

[captplaystation]

I, as per my colleague, joined as Capt, like him it has been , in real terms, all downhill.
Would be interesting to hear the same from an Easy viewpoint, I would be dissapointed, but not surprised, to hear the same story.

[BongleBear]

you just cannot see it,can you?you and i are being set up for the mother of all falls.you are going to be hurt!!!

is that a promise repa? i think we're getting tired of promises from you guys. when are you actually going to make head way instead of saying "just wait to see what happens..."
well we've waited and ryanair keeps winning. what do we have to do? if we've joined repa and balpa, when will we see change? stansted and dublin have accepted this pay (cut) agreement now. is it just liverpool and prestwick who are going to see benefits now?
how about instead of making threats and promises you show us what is going on, because you're starting to sound like the top guys at ryanair.

[the grim repa]

Yes that is a promise!!!

promises from YOU guys.
when are YOU going to make head way.
YOU show US what is going on.
when will WE see change.


The usual YOU and US story from the ryanair pilots.How about you get off your ass and make some head way.Rather than expecting some others to do it for YOU!!!Better to sound like some management figure,than sit in the corner like a scared snivelling pussy!Management i do not agree with.But cowards,well they are cowards.

[BongleBear]

what are you going on about? of course it's about us and you, you've been chosen by the masses to represent us. it's like balpa turning round to ba pilots and saying "hey stop having a go at us, why don't you do something about it". it's your role to do that!
we have done what has been asked
we have fought as best we can
we have joined balpa
we have joined repa
we hold meetings to see how best to refuse this pay cut

now what is the next plan? is there a next plan? we do support repa but many of us feel that the whole thing is falling apart. whatever the reason for this is, please just either admit this and we can go about union recognition another way or you should reveal the plan because we can't continue to support repa if we're losing faith

[the grim repa]

i ain't been chosen by no one to do nothing.the sad fact is that there is no masses.how have we fought as best we can.you might and i might,that is a small minority in a majority of lazy bastards!!!

[ThatsRight!]

Might be best for some people to not log on anymore before they burn out.:\

[Capt Ted Crilly]

gday guys,

i worked in RYR for over 6 years and loved every minute of it.met some top lads flew some good kit and flew into some tricky airports.

listening to the two boys grim and bear arguing on this forum is one of the reasons that i decided to call it a day at ryr and move to VIR.

the problem is there is and never will be any UNITY amongst the guys as everyone has there own agenda.when i joined ryr was a really good place to work but ts n cs have been eroided year on year and what a shame it is too as it could and should be the best airline in europe to work for.

with regards to the sector pay that one f/o was referencing to circa 2000 quid /mth this is a massive pay cut of around 30%. i was taking home between 2500-2800 gbps based in stn 6 years ago.

time to wake up guys and take your heads outa your asses and take MOLs hand out of your pocket.

i do wish all at ryr the best........except managment footking city bankers

[BongleBear]

you're completely right ted, everyone does have their own agenda and MOL must love having it that way. if he keeps everyone pissed off at the bases to the point where they'd accept less t's and c's just, for example, to get home to their wife and new born baby, then he is delighted. look at the current situation in lpl, leading upto the pay negotiations the base is flooded with a mismatch of pilots, esp. captains. hardly any of the new upgrades want to be based there (and not just because it's liverpool!), they want to get home in their days off so they'll sell their grandmothers for 4 days off, and PB doesn't let anyone move because of this (despite promises...)

i'd say it is still a good place to work- but purely the job satisfaction: people you sit next to in the flght deck and the girls down the back- you can have a laugh with, even though they might be cramped- there is generally a good atmosphere in the crew rooms, the pay (even though it may be reducing....) is good.

grim repa, isn't it best for repa to just say what you've said then? we all know we can't get anywhere while we're not all headed towards the same goal. the only way we are going to make progress is getting union recognition (small task i know...) but we all spend so long arguing about these ****ty pay negotiations that MOL must be finding it hilarious how we're not spending this time talking about the bigger picture.

jejUNITY, jejUNITY, jejUNITY

[Capt Ted Crilly]

you are spot on with your statement about job stisfaction.

it is defo one of the best jobs around for hands on and getting flying skills up to a good standard,just look around the world at other airlines and you will find ex RYR guys there..ba,ek,vs,cx,klm,ib,etc.......

i will tell you what bear give me 5 on and 10 off and i will consider a move back to RYR....missing the flying.:(

there is nothing glamorous about spending christmas day in a hotel room in HK.

:ok: for the guys at RYR

[BongleBear]

that's something i forgot to mention; you do get a good variation of flying and the opportunity to hand fly whenever you want. some may look at circle to lands and non precision approaches as too much like hard work, but i guarantee you'll soon be bored of ils, ils, ils, ils, ils...

just look around the world at other airlines and you will find ex RYR guys there..ba,ek,vs,cx,klm,ib,etc.......

and there you go, that's what repa is finding it hard to combat. people use ryanair as a stepping stone. not that there's anything wrong with that, it may even be my plan... but those who take the attitude of 'it's not my problem, i'll be at virgin in a couple of years, why fight?' are the ones (and by far the majority as i can see) that could make the difference. can't blame them though, everyone's got their own agenda and that's fair enough.

b bear

[greenhopper]

Right Ted!!:o

[7Q Off]

I know Ryanair have non EU pilots from Brazil, Argentina, etc. How they manage to fly with non JAR Licence???? There is a validation like in the UK for experienced guys??

[BristolScout]

Slightly peripheral to thread but do ryr put skippers out to grass at 60 or are there opportunities to work on? Mind you, from some of the comments on all threads relating to Ryanair, I wonder if anyone has reached that age in the flight deck community! (Only joking.):O

[captplaystation]

I think if there were "any juice to squeeze out of the lemon" left from 60-65 they would be happy to avail of your services.
Seriously though, think you can continue to "normal" JAR retiral age of 65, assuming you don't run short of health, humour, or enthusiasm. If I make it to then , think I would perhaps try a few years of 50% to finish though.

[set_default]

Anyone prepared to share the actual basic pay figures throughout a standard career (SO, FO, SFO and so on) at Ryanair?

Cheers

[mason]

Is the sector pay any different if you are based somewhere else or in ireland or spain for example ?

[easymoney]

Yes...................

[Ollie268]

Can anyone give me some informed figures on what to expect as a low hours FO on the brookfield contract? If you can please PM me, would be greatly appreciated. :)

[easymoney]

http://http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=68a2bqqfu39egxp5kcbcr5mgqure99x55xv786aqzas6 x5z4514 (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=68a2bqqfu39egxp5kcbcr5mgqure99x55xv786aqzas6 x5z4514)

All info at link above

[BongleBear]

set_default:

ppjn isn't too good because it gives a mismatch of sector pay and basic pay from different bases across europe.

in my career to date....

UK Base

SO - entry- one year in company = £16,600 + sector pay + £5000 allowances
JFO - one year in company - 1500 JAR25 = £24,400 + sector + £5k
FO - 1500 JAR25 - captain = £26k to £29k + sector + £5k

They say sector pay is upto £25k per annum, but with the new deal it's less. Capt's - £23-25 per scheduled block hour (not flown hour so will be more than 900 per annum) FO - £18-20 psbh (all figures vary depending on base, stansted got the best deal! new bases seemed to get poorer deals).
Has been mentioned before, but sector pay is taxed at source, so essentially received tax free.

Theses figures are different from base to base, liverpool and prestwick still on old deal and european bases on euro payscale, but i believe they get quite a but less.

hope it helps
b bear

[forty six & 2]

just a quickie for you repa: what is being fought for now? thought all the cases had been dropped, i'm guessing, to concentrate on the green giant...

[set_default]

@ b bear

thanks for the accurate info, much appreciated.

[easymoney]

Ye, but the question was regarding Brookfield.....

This does not change base by base.....or does it.