TMG Grob 109B in the UK?

[Lost in Cloud]

Hi All

Does anyone know of a place in the UK, preferably NW England but not too bothered, that flys the TMG Grob 109B? I want to do my PPL with TMG rating so the school will need to have a TMG examiner too.

I am particulary interested in a school that has a Grob 109B as I am an instructor on the Vigilant (same aircraft just different name) with the Air Cadets and already have more than the required 45 hours for the PPL just need to go to a civi school to do the X-country and skills test.

Any info or contacts would be much appreciated.

[airborne_artist]

Twenty-eight G109Bs on G-Info - search results here (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=grob%20g109b) including one at Lasham.

[Whopity]

You also need a licensed aerodrome to do a JAA Course on the 109 and most operate at unlicensed sites under the auspices of the BGA. Talk to Alan Wrigley Rufforth.

[znww5]

Oxfordshire Sport Flying operates and trains on a Grob 109A out of Enstone (smaller engine and different airfoil section to the 109b). Might be worth considering whether you want a JAR PPL or an NPPL licence. For the former take a look at Lasors 2007 on the CAA website, for the latter go to the NPPL web site. You will find details of what you can and can't transfer across from your VGS instructing. Note that Lasors refers to exemptions for QSPs (Qualified Service Pilots), but a VGS instructor is not deemed to be a QSP sadly.

As far as I can see with either route, you can't escape the 7 written CAA exams and you'll need a FRTOL radio licence if you want to fly a civvy variant. The NPPL route appears to take more of your experience into account than the JAR PPL route. As far as I can see, you need to be mindful of your future flying plans when choosing which route to follow - the regulations are somewhat obtuse and you could snooker yourself if you aren't careful!

I've just started as a CI at a VGS, but as I already have a JAR PPL SEP I only need to add a TMG rating to log hours. Good luck :ok:

[Lost in Cloud]

Thanks for all the advice. I am looking at a JAR PPL with TMG rating. I will then be adding a SEP rating to it via a skills test. Then on to hour building towards CPL minimum of 150 hours. Doing it this way with my current vigilant hours is the cheapest way to get my PPL.

There is a section in the LASORS 2008 that states that all vigilant hours count towards the 45 hour minima for a PPL. You must have done 25 hours dual and 10 solo as required as a minimum for a JAR-PPL and total hours must be in excess of 45. If you have this then you need to go to a civvi school do a x-country of 150nm stoping at 2 other airfields and then a skills test. That way you open a JAR-PPL up with a TMG rating. To get a SEP rating added you need training and then a skills test on type. 5-10 hours max depends on experiance and ability.

[znww5]

You could go for a T61F (Slingsby Venture) instead of a 109B, the hourly rates would be a good bit lower (£70 vs £105 dual - £54 vs £85 solo at Enstone). Old tech now of course, but there's plenty still flying. Thanks for the heads up on Lasors 2008, wasn't on their site the last time I checked.

Only differences you'll find with civvy flying are 'square' circuits, different terminology, more RT, powered approaches and less paperwork! Good luck :)

[Whopity]

Enstone is unlicensed and they cannot train there for a JAA PPL

[Fournier Boy]

Not true I'm afraid. You can conduct training from the airfield and they have an agreement and a waiver of landing fees at nearby Hinton in the Hedges and Wellesborne Mountford. I did my PPL there and it was simple. All circuit training was conducted at Enstone with upper air work conducted in the local area. My final pre-solo flight was from Enstone to Hinton, where the instructor got out and I soloed from there. I picked the instructor back up and we flew back to Enstone. For my GFT, NAV EX we took off from Enstone, landed at Wellesborne and started the exercise from there. I think you'll find its only the GFT NFT and Solo that have to be conducted from a licenced field. Same legislation that allows you to taildragger and farm strip courses at private strips.

You will find that this is a perfectly legal way around legislation which still fulfils the necessary syllabus at a reduced cost for the student. Personally I'm all for that sort of thing.

Couldn't recommend Oxfordshire Sport Flying higher.

FB

...and before anyone says it, I am NOT an NPPL, I'm a CAA PPL SLMG, JAR TMG + SEP. I am nearly at the end of what "lost in cloud" is ultimately trying to achieve.

[Frelon]

Another vote for Oxford Sportflying. A very friendly welcome awaits you there.

But be aware that despite already having more than the required 45 hours for the PPL and that you "just need to go to a civi school to do the X-country and skills test" you may have to do a bit more flying to convince them that you are comfortable turning your back on that very friendly home circuit!


Go for it.