RFDS Queensland.

[cuberoute]

Can anyone here please tell me the latest pay rates and conditions for RFDS in Queensland.

Thank you.

[Stationair8]

Nice pay rise granted to the hardworking RFDS QLD guys.

Obviously management and the Chief pilot are concerned with the pilot shortage coming to an airport near you, and have put a very good offer on the table for the pilots.

Starting wage of about $80,000 is the figure being quoted plus a further increases in the next 12 months, sounds like a proactive CP.

[flyitboy]

'bout time they got paid well, no doubt that will open the floodgates for other operators !Would be a great job if 'bus' driving wasn't yr scene

F

[megle2]

The pay rise will have them below other B200 drivers in Brisbane / Brisbane Region.

So not so good!!

[desert_rat]

Unfortunately 80K does not cut it for the work involved and the amount of time that is gifted to the RFDS for Standby time plus duty. However I believe that Qld Section is a better place than the west.

[Trojan1981]

Even if they can't compete with market pay it would still be a very satisfying job, wouldn't it?

[Stationair8]

Megle2, so what is the going rate for a B200 driver in the Brissy region?
And which operator is paying that?

[desert_rat]

Troajan, unfortunately "NO"

[mates rates]

arthur pays 32000k

[excellr8]

Genuine 1972 prices!!!!!!

[turbinejunkie]

I recently overnighted at a mate's place who is a RFDS QLD pilot. They had just got their EBA approved by management and it was up to the pilot body to vote on accepting the deal. From all accounts they would be mad to refuse it since it was exactly what the pilots had put to the bosses and was accepted without revision.

A pilot who is with the company for 4 years (or will by the time the incremental increases are finalised by October), will earn $95K. A massive 38% increase from current pay levels. A newbe wil be around $85K if my memory serves me correctly.

Congratulations to all the RFDS team including the managers who have enough sense to realise that the time has come for things to change. :ok: :cool:

Fact is those guys are very experienced and could easily jump into a airline position on similar or better cash so the RFDS could easily have lost their fundamental assets. Pilot wages are now closer to the medical staff (nurses had a recent jump).

How good would that be if it filtered through GA and the airlines likewise without an argument. :eek:

Its high time that we pilots stuck together and showed the bean counters what we truly believe we are worth across the board with some real conviction for the cause. :ugh:

Dammit, we are talented individuals who have to make massive investments to get our careers started, accept difficult living conditions and low pay for years. Well, not any more.

Add to that the massive responsibility we uphold, the ongoing proficiency checks that need to be passed, the possibility of losing our medical at any time and therefore our income. The list just goes on and on!

The wheel has turned kiddies. Lets keep it going! Its time to bring home the bacon and really splash the cash. :D

Cheers,

TJ :ok:

ps. off soapbox now, rant over. :E

[cuberoute]

Is there more to it ? $85,000 after tax ? Do the RFDS boys get free rent phone and a company car.? Or, has that changed as well ?

[flyitboy]

'cuberoute' I doubt that the figure of $85K is after tax, rarely does any Co. mention that. Obviously that would mean a gross of well over $100K & few (other than SAPL) offer that sought of money to fly a 'boat plane':E
Also doubt that a free Ph or car is amongst that, could be wrong tho, someone will know 4 sure

F

[Stationair8]

And if they charged for endorsements say $30,000 for a PC-12 endorsement the young blokes would be lining up at the door to get in!!!!

Good to see wages moving forward, plenty of pilots don't necessary wish to fly the big jet.

[Howard Hughes]

It is generally not young blokes lining up at the door...;)

[Under Dog]

Good to see their management focuses on a stable pilot body and not a
revolving door .
Experienced staff are hard to replace in these RFDS sections.


Regards The Dog

[maxgrad]

As a heads up, other operators doing same tasks have realised that they need to hang on to experience, I agree the tables may very well be turning.

[desert_rat]

RFDS needs to do something WA is about to experience a mass exodus of it's pilots despite a recent increase, I believe the word at the moment is "CRISIS"

[flyitboy]

I don't think the WA section is about to experience a mass exit of drivers, the SE section which are now I believe to be the lowest paid section of the whole RFDS are always seeking pilots for Syd & ML as can be seen in Friday's Australian newspaper & the AFAP website almost every week!. I bet the managment at Syd & ML are getting nervous knowing that their guys are being paid peanuts & would no doubt be very restless, I know I would be in their shoes!
I can't understand for the life of me why these obviously experienced guys are still there earning such poor wages when there is a much better paid job out there such as SAPL Etc. Am sure things will change soon for those well sought after pilots of the RFDS. Great job guys, we salute you for being hero's in more ways than one, but I would undesrstand ye exit for better T&C's like almost everyone else.
I've known a few guys over the years at the RFDS in various sections they where 'career' pilots once, not anymore I'd say, hard to maintain that idea when yr mates are being paid more even within their own Co! Go figure !:bored:
I am aware that's it's contractual at some bases but at the end of the day a contract can only be filled if there are 'supplies' for the task!

HH I think from yr posts that yr such a man, well done if so


F


F

[Howard Hughes]

I can't understand for the life of me why these obviously experienced guys are still there earning such poor wages when there is a much better paid job out there such as SAPL Etc.
If you look closely at the people who have been with the RFDS a long time, they tend to be very succeful financially outside of Aviation! That eases the burden and allows you to make choices based on other criteria, I actually don't know how some of the guys can afford to support a family and live in Sydney on one income.

As far as other positions go, SAPL I think is one of those niche positions a bit like the RFDS, I suspect that given the type of flying and it's location, it is not something every pilot could do, nor would they want too.

When I look around my colleagues at the RFDS, the level of knowledge and experience that is still available despite recent departures astounds me! I hope the RFDS (all sections) wake up in time before this knowledge and experience is gone!

If you were to ask most pilots at the RFDS what their ideal job would be, the answer would be something like this...
-Aeromedical flying
-Salary somewhere North of $100K

If these were the conditions most would never leave, in fact we could probably entice a number of people back from the 'Nirvana' that is the 'Airlines'!;)

[Towering Q]

I don't think the WA section is about to experience a mass exit of drivers

What makes you so sure, flyitboy?

[Stationair8]

What with Network getting 2 Fokker 100's, Skywest getting 2 A320's plus I heard a little story about a B737 being based in WA for FIFO, I reckon the RFDS WA could lose a fair few pilots.

Meeka flying a PC-12 or Perth and a jet job or flying a Dash, decisions decisions.

[flying-spike]

Yeah, you are right, they are not about to. They are experiencing a mass exodus. When you get 4 applications for positions and even they don't meet the requirements and you still accept them. Yep, they've got problems.

[flyitboy]

Whoooops soory 'towering Q' & others typo error there, meant to be " I don't think WA is the only section about to etc etc etc"
heard also recently that the experience level once looked upon as the highest for a prop job is getting lower & lower in order to fill the holes left behind by the more experienced guys seeking real money for a change.
Can't say as I blame them, flying is a love, but not povety!

HH I agree with yr words about the RFDS must be a better job than most but even tho some in there might be better off money wise it sure must be difficult for these guys to watch their mates who might have also once been with the RFDS streak ahead money wise. Still their choice but I know what I would do, earn it now while you can ! There are no prizes for hero's at the end of the day when yr struggling on the pension. But some will say poor old chap, he did fly for the RFDS when younger but now he's all but forgotten !:bored:
I wonder if the SE section are going to seek more money now HH?
Although I think you guys are tied up with current monies due contractual & EBA reasons correct?, can be changed am sure.

F

[Under Dog]

Flyitboy

Mascot base of RFDS has been fighting for a new EBA for nearly 2 years without much sucess till just recently.(There is light at the end of the tunnel however a lot of damage has been done)
The revolving Door management style used by SE section has a limited life left as can be seen from the regular adverts in the Australian.
The bean counters obvisously think that recruiting and training new staff is far more economical than improving T&Cs.


Regards The Dog

[flyitboy]

Tnxs 'under dog' for yr input. I gather by those in the know as in actual employees of the RFDS that things are slowly improving money wise. Does the RFDS still attract the more older types these days or has that avenue dried up 'cause the airlines are taking all but the oldest & the youngest?
Seems also that there are more females in the system these days. Hear a few diff voices that ain't men !:) I guess the RFDS was once an all male camp (said with tongue in cheek:E) mainly cause of the harsh environments once expected in the early days, not anymore, the 'kitchen sink' has come to us now !:E
Sadly I gather that loyalty isn't being recognised by decent money in all sections across the RFDS. These lower paid current pilots show their acceptance to perform a task at lessor wages that's not the norm & on yr own by way of good faith and staying at one level. By that I mean little in the way of advancement on types etc.

I would have loved to have flown for the RFDS years ago but the money was never that attractive & man can't live by bread alone !:bored:

I wish you guys well to persude the boffins at the top that life should be played on a level playing field, something we rarely see these days in all sections of the flying game!

F

[clear to land]

Fantastic news for the QLD guys. As an ex employee, my main motivation for leaving was, quite simply, the need to be able to provide for myself and family in retirement. On the wages available that just couldn't happen. Now it is heading in the right direction, this will probably prevent people like me who were/are dedicated to the ethos and concept of RFDS, from moving on. A stable pilot body is exactly what is required in the operation. The high minimums are required for a reason, reducing them would definately be a step in the wrong direction, as by its nature the organisation can only provide limited supervision at best. I would never suggest that an RFDS pilot be remunerated at the same level as a Doctor, but the remuneration SHOULD be the equivelent of the cost of pilots for a Regional turboprop operation ie CAPT AND F/O COMBINED. In todays market that is around 110k minimum. The job is far more demanding than the 'crew' operation faces, notwithstanding the extra duties, and lack of benefits such as staff travel. It is my belief that the Regional operation is a good benchmark for RFDS pilots and sections to aim for. Altruism only goes so far with rising interest rates, property prices, mouths to feed and increasing RPT salaries. As stated previously, CONGRATULATIONS to RFDS Qld management for recognising the value of their (pilot) resource, and not stalling with protracted morale damaging negotiations (S/E Section..) but there is still room for improvement. I would suggest that if a Regional salary benchmark was applied, the savings made with a stable dedicated and motivated workforce with subsequent reduced training liability would more than offset the 110k minimum. :D

[Capt Wally]

"C to L" Nice words there.

It would be just wonderful to have that sought of money you suggested paid to ALL RFDS pilots ozzy wide but sadly it ain't so:bored: The RFDS task/job is great, none better in the GA world but money is fast becoming the major issue now at the expense of experience. The money currently being offered at the SE section sounds good to the lower experienced guys/gals & that's about all they are attracting these days & for other obvious reasons. The older more mature ones that would like to stay 'cause it's the best flying job around simply have trouble swallowing the fact that their being paid the lowest for the same expertese as elsewhere.
I love flying, always have, but that comes at a cost these days by way of feeling less important than my bros.:bored:


CW

[Howard Hughes]

by way of feeling less important than my bros.Not so Wally, you are the best...:ok:

With the scrapping of work choices and the Rudd government in power, perhaps what we should be aiming for is an "aeromedical award' encompassing both fixed wing and rotary! At leat that way there would be pay parity between all RFDS sections and other aeromedical operators.:ok:

[Capt Wally]

...ahhh tanks there HH, now where do ya want yr usual bribe sent to?:ok:


CW

[Howard Hughes]

I'll pick it up next time I am in Melbourne...;)

[clear to land]

Howard et al - the concept of a standard Aeromedical Award -(A and H) is a great idea. If you added together the sum total of RFDS (all sections), NTAMS and then all the Rotary Pilots employed on dedicated EMS duties, you are talking a quite sizeable group of personnel. You can compare standards of equipment ie SPIFR BE20 with AW139/B212/BK117 and find they all fit 'approx' the same weight bracket with similar equipment levels. Extra duties of pilots are similar, and the operational challenges, although type specific, call for a similar level of expertise, albeit with different skill sets. True there are less RW pilots than FW, but the job is 'essentially' the same. (I have reasonable RW experience too, so feel qualfied to pass this observation). I believe that CHC pilots have just gained a substantial payrise, and they probably have the highest number of dedicated R/W EMS pilots as an organisation (happy to be corrected on that). That salary would be a good benchmark to aim for as the basis for an Aeromed award. I believe there is an annual aeromed conference these days, which could be a good platform to launch the concept, with the assistance of the AFAP (make them earn there 1%). RFDS QLD management appear to have recognised change is in the air, its about time all the other sections were dragged into reality also. Quality conditions equals quality employees who, unlike most of the management, will remain dedicted to the organisation for the remainder of their careers, with the organisation reaping the benefits. Aeromed pilots of all types are a valuable ASSET to the community and the nation, the same as the nurses, doctors, paramedics etc that are all involved. Its time that this was realised. :)

[maxgrad]

clear to land,

I commend you for your thoughts and agree with your intent.

[farrari]

What is the current pay rates and conditions for the SE Section

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

What a great idea. HH, CW, any idea when the next annual conference is on?

A number of us need to put this to Lawrie. :ok: