British Commandos sent home in disgrace

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I don't care what the Army does behind closed doors, but these boys have stepped over the line.

Daily Mail link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=524553&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

[Chicken Leg]

These guys clearly don't understand the 'rules' of a Naked Bar.

Convention dictates that after stripping naked, the participants continue drinking/talking/etc as if nothing was out of the ordinary. No reference should be made (by the participants) to the fact that they are naked and their behaviour should be no different to when they were clothed. It seems that these chaps were not aware of this!

Not sure that a civvy bar in a foreign country is the place to conduct such an event though, even when observing the above rules! :rolleyes:

[Al R]

Agreed. The expressing of one's bladder over one's chums in a public place is particularly bad form. Thats what a urinal is for - don't they teach them anything these days?

[Pops556]

I'm going to risk a 'head shot' here and state that, after 20 years service, I've never heard of 'naked bar'. :bored: ( I'll get me geltex...ER! Gortex...I meant Gortex!)

[Avitor]

If I was a lawyer and, in the unlikely event I was skint, on principle, I would refuse to put together a defence for these lads. Bad form, fella's. :*

[Jackonicko]

Particularly poor form to do it in a country where generally speaking they still like us.....

Though the reports seem to suggest that any affection for the Brits is eroding anyway.

[Al R]

Its traditionally a Bootneck thing Pops and done in good jest (in my experience) and received well too. But then again, the Royals always did have slightly suss habits, such as dressing up as women in the block. Must be a ship thing.

Problem is, the Booties know when are where to do it, and they do it with style (well, with as much style as one can muster, standing in the snug with bollocks like a mountain goat after 3 months in the Arctic Circle). These guys are army though, and they don't know the craic.

Another harmless tradition down the pan now that someone will seek to stamp it out.

[BEagle]

Whilst high spirits and letting off steam after hard training is entirely to unexpected, there must be some limits. Not limits enforced by outsiders, but limits instilled during training and everyday unit life.

This lot went too far. Whether this was an isolated incident or is becoming more commonplace, the fact that it took place at all is disturbing.

'Naked bar' - why is that ever acceptable? Whether 'done in style' or not.

Anyway, I'm sure that the follow up action will be appropriate.

I hope this does not sully the overall reputation of the UK Armed Forces in Norway - or anywhere else, for that matter.

[LooseArticle]

What has this thread got to do with a Military Aircrew/Aviation forum? :ugh:

[doubledolphins]

Believe it or not they are your pasengers. They make your landing areas. Besides if you are a professional pilot this is a forum for you to discuss any thing you like. As opposed to a forum for ground based wannabees to discus aviation. Spotter!:=

[bwfg3]

The payrise after completing the all arms course must be fantastic if an private soldier can afford to get that drunk in Norway. Have you seen the beer prices?:eek:

[Warmtoast]

The payrise after completing the all arms course must be fantastic if an private soldier can afford to get that drunk in Norway. Have you seen the beer prices?

and if the Daily Mail is to believed:
Local police were called, and handed spot fines of £500 to each of the men before handing them over to the Royal Military Police.

...so did they actually have £500 in their pockets to pay the fines on the spot?

[Gainesy]

Erm, what pockets?:)

[Redcarpet]

'Marines get naked', Where's the news! At least there are no pillows involved this time;)

[Warmtoast]

Gainsey
Erm, what pockets?

Good point. So where do soldiers keep £500 about their person when stark naked?

[Gainesy]

Search me, erm, on second thoughts...:uhoh:

[angels]

They still would have had their togs with them if they stripped off in the bar. Credit cards maybe?

Either way, 500 quid is quite a bit of dosh if they were forced to pay it.

Not good though. I think this is quite a good answer to those who scream 'National Serrvice!' when stories of drunk Brits on the rampage in council estates emerge. Do the armed forces really want more of this sort of soldier?

But I've digressed! :}

[Al R]

We train people to kill, and then tut tut when they have the audacity to doff shreddies. I remember some pompous, shiny arsed guano asking just why there was a need to get hammered and do silly things whenwe had just spent a week or so doing training in bayonet fighting, Close Quarter Battle and Operating in a Built Up Area at Son of Imber. Yes, the pi$$ing bit is nasty, but the average Royal Marine (these were 'just' Cdo, Royal Engineers I know) is intelligent, articulate and thoughtful.

He is also independantly minded and this is his way of letting off steam and establishing Esprit de Corps, just as some might flex paper clips straight, to ease the tension of a long day sitting on their arse. The average Royal is also a bit tasty, so be careful. I remember a cartoon of Jim Callghan handing the phone over to Dennis Healey and saying; "You want to disband the Royal Marines? Fine. Then you tell 'em".

I won't condone daft behaviour in public, and this particular incident seems tasteless at best. But two things strike me here; firstly, the need for a balanced and thoughtful response that isn't a gross overreaction and result in some sort of moral computer based training for those concerned, and secondly.. I wonder if the Norgies would have minded as much when the Russians were coming?

Finally, its a bit sanctimonious for anyone in the Armed Forces to question the morality of another member of the Armed Forces. We all joined up to do a tasteless job at the end of the day, and we all have our own ways of doing things, operating and traditions that we might not understand. But what's with the intolerance thing? Like it or not, this is their culture and normally, its done in bars where the locals don't mind, there are no water sports and know about it beforehand, sometimes even for charity. We should be careful that we don't turn everything into a grey soup of politically correct blandness.

Personally, I think burning pianos is a crime against mother earth.. adding to all that global warming, well, its just plain awful.

[GPMG]

Whenever I have participated in Naked Bar it was always away from the public. NAAFI's, private hire rugby clubs, Sitang camp, on site BBQ's etc as well as funnily enough the NAAFI at Harstad (including forfeits of throwing yourself into a snowdrift etc).

Never in public, one thing that we always did was police ourselves whilst ashore. I've been sent home with a few kindly words from a senior marine / cpl when I couldn't handle my drink and was being a **** and I have also on occasion called a 'taxi for one' when I was able to help an oppo out and stop him getting picked up by shore patrol in Aya Napa when he was being a drunken nob.

Yes naked bar is a bootneck thing but it's also a rugby club thing as well , but lets not start connecting the corps with this bunch of idiots please?

You will note that the whole naked roll mat fighting thing from a year ago happened on a base and shouldn't have got into the public domain. It was only because one person had a camera phone with them that this kind of thing became common knowledge.

[Al R]

Agreed Gimpy.

You weren't on 40 Cdo in 1984, for the UN tour by any chance were you?

[GPMG]

Argggghhh you said the G word, run to the nearest hill and back, go.

No I'm afraid that was a bit before my time, I think my brother was on a UN tour around that tim though (may have been earlier).

[airborne_artist]

these were 'just' Cdo, Royal Engineers

The 59 (Commando) Sqn and 9 (Para) Sqn guys are bright, capable and totally solid under pressure. Plenty of them find their way to Hereford.

There is however a time and a place for everything, and a public bar that has not been cleared in advance is not the location.

[Al R]

.. agreed, which was why I put 'just' in those little dash type things, the name for which escapes me right now because my head is exploding. This was a clash of cultures as much as anything. And weak bladders obviously.

Gimpy, what if you hear the word 'grenade' or.. 'bullets'?

AGHHHHH.. I've said it. Now I've got to leapord crawl in any given direction now, for 30 seconds and then upppppp, or I'll never forgive myself..

[Pops556]

"Naked Bar" strikes as the sort of Bonhomie that could only be found and tolerated within a tightly-knit group or by folk associated with such groups (for example the pubs and bars close by their normal training and stomping grounds?)

If these guys need to let some steam off then a certain degree of tolerance and understanding of the values, culture, ethos and 'norms' are required...and perhaps some advance notice!

That said, the need to express group cohesion and scent mark via a Bacchanalian 'golden shower' crosses the line. Whatever happened to the 'Duty Adult' system? I still insist on it with my lot when they get together...

[Pontius Navigator]

AIDU you were indeed right, I make it 6 so far.:}

[MightyGem]

The 59 (Commando) Sqn and 9 (Para) Sqn guys are bright, capable and totally solid under pressure. Plenty of them find their way to Hereford.
Yeah, but I wouldn't take many home to meet my mum. And I'm an ex sapper.

[sittingstress]

GPMG-you shy from the term Gimpy, how about:

POUCHES pronounced correctly and not POOCHES!

Double away to the common and crawl through the gorse.

Regards

ss

[Pontius Navigator]

a public bar that has not been cleared in advance is not the location.

Interesting point. I think (I can't remember :}) that it is not unknown for the owner/bar staff to be asked or warned and to give a warning to customers.

Equally I might recall the wry smile and the 'go ahead' we are unshockable bit.

But don't hold me to it, I have a notoriously fragile memory as proven that I can never remember what I said to Mrs PN 30 years ago, but she can.

[RAFEmployee]

Anyone ever read "Amongst the marines" by Steven Preece?

Speaks about the pubs in Norway and how the marines always had problems with the locals.

[AIDU]

Of course you wouldn't see the RAF Rock apes fighting in a pub now would you.

Paras v RAF in punch-up

By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor

A BRAND new special forces unit has fought its first battle — against EACH OTHER.

An elite tri-service group of Marines, Paras and RAF soldiers is ready for action to back up SAS squadrons on global missions, it was announced yesterday.

But the new Special Forces Support Group, has already tasted its OWN blood during a mass brawl in a nightclub.
Cops were called to separate up to 60 troops slugging it out in a cap badge rivalry punch-up which left many sporting black eyes and cuts.

A source said: “It was the Para boys versus the RAF — and the Paras won about 30-nil. They filled the guys in.”

The fight in Dover, Kent, involved crack soldiers individually hand-picked for their expertise who are meant to be above squaddie punch-ups.

The row began in a pub after RAF Regiment members bragged about how they beat the Royal Marines section of the unit in a tactics test.

The Paras came to the Marines’ defence and ended with both groups squaring up to each other in a back room of nightclub Studio 1.

The source added: “It serves them right for blabbing their mouths off over how good they thought they were, and they won’t be doing it again in a hurry.

“This sort of thing is only to be expected when you put so many blokes who are the best at what they do together in a unit like this. Everyone is used to being the king of the castle so it is inevitable there will be a clash of egos. Hopefully things will now settle down so everyone can get on with the day job.”

Clubber Jay Mackey, 18, said:“Loads of girls got involved in the fight, including my friend who was punched in the face and got a black eye. A BRAND new special forces unit Special needs more like.

RAF soldiers Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha They may wear combats to work but you could teach CCS just as well in blues.

I particularly like the last bit.

Clubber Jay Mackey, 18, said“Loads of girls got involved in the fightThat was the rock apes mate.;)


“It was the Para boys versus the RAF — and the Paras won about 30-nil. They filled the guys in.”
I refer you to the quote above reference a bunch of girls.

[glad rag]

Sure everthing you read is true.....................:ugh:

[knowitall]

"and the Paras won about 30-nil"


wow, a para that can count!

whatever next

[AIDU]

It's true it was in the Sun.:ok:

[Talking Radalt]

Speaks about the pubs in Norway and how the marines always had problems with the locals.
Sure you don't mean "a problem" with the locals? (which is ever so slightly different) :confused:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Probably a good thing it wasn't 3 Para Mortars or the Foreign Legion Naked Ballroom Display Team then....

[StevenPreece]

I think the Noggies just lack a sense of humour. I recall one night after a good sesh, when I went back to a noggie gronks grot and wandered around the house in the middle of the night looking for the toilet. I thought I'd found it in the dark, but then realised that the Noggie gronk was shouting at me because I was swamping on her.:ooh:

No sense of humour those noggie birds!!:)

Cheers

Steve

[Ewan Whosearmy]

The public should just leave them alone as some times the steam needs to come out or it will burst through in other ways!

Are you serious?

These men go into a bar in a country where they are guests, strip naked, harass the women and then piss on each other, and now it's the locals' fault for being over sensitive?! YGBFSM.

If they want people to leave them alone, then they shouldn't act like complete cocks in front of the public.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

I think the Noggies just lack a sense of humour. I recall one night after a good sesh, when I went back to a noggie gronks grot and wandered around the house in the middle of the night looking for the toilet. I thought I'd found it in the dark, but then realised that the Noggie gronk was shouting at me because I was swamping on her.

OK, that completely puts into perspective your previous comments about it being the locals' fault.

Clearly, in your little world, pissing on someone or getting pissed on by someone is funny.

[GobonaStick]

Guess we'll be off their Christmas Tree list this year. :=

[Chippie Chappie]

I'm not military so please excuse me if I'm off the mark but shouldn't this be handled "in house". Maybe the punishment of not being able to wear their RM Commando berets for a month until they learn how to not embarrass it? Surely pride of the regiment not only experienced during trouping of the colour?

(hard hat on)

Chips

[M609]

Generally speaking peple in this part of the country is quite used to a certain level of antics from various UK MIL organisations, and accept it. (Most people understad the importance their presence had during the cold war, and still has today. After all, the wast majority behave. And there is naturally a quite substantial economic footprint from the annual training as well....)

No one is too bothered about a barfight now and then if it's among themselfs, but this latest one kind of crossed a line. :ugh:

[parabellum]

Steven Preece - you are beyond the Pale, you may have served but I think we could have easily done without you.

[TheWizard]

Maybe the punishment of not being able to wear their RM Commando berets for a month until they learn how to not embarrass it?

Not in this case as they were not Royal Marines, although they are still entitled to wear a green beret as pointed out.

[airborne_artist]

Maybe the punishment of not being able to wear their RM Commando berets for a month until they learn how to not embarrass it?

Not in this case as they were not RM.

Army (http://www.army.mod.uk/royalengineers/org/59sqn/commando_training/pre_aacc.htm) and Navy personnel who have passed the all arms course are entitled to wear the green beret, though.

[GPMG]

Regarding Steve Preece, not only has he managed to get the wrong end of the stick by referring to these guys as 'Royal' (a general term for Royal Marines) when they aren't (they are 59 Commando Royal Engineers).

He has also managed to make his usual standard of post which is designed to cause strong discussion and will end up as argument and also manage to list his books that he has written.

He's well known on RM forums, some blokes like him some don't. I don't have much of an opinion as I have not read his books but just beware that he may well provoke strong thoughts within his posts but he does not speak for current or ex Royal Marines as a whole.

[PPRuNe Pop]

I wish this thread had been put to death at the start. It was, seemingly, news, but it has descended into farce and a low standard of rhetoric. It is now closed before it can descend even further. It certainly does PPRuNe no favours in staying and encouraging more bile.

As an ex WO I say these guys are an absolute disgrace and they can take that disgrace into the pit they now deserve to dwell for at least 28 days. Perhaps their WO will be ensuring it happens!