UK staff shortages

[flowman]

What's the problem in the UK today?
We have some fairly serious regulations running due to ATC staff shortages:
Bristol suite is combined, BHD and LND are combined, 13 and 14 (CLW) are combined and the Lakes sectors 3, 4 and 7 are also combined for ATC staffing reasons.
Throw in a bit of weather and you have 18000 minutes of delay today excluding the aerodromes.
Summer should be fun :uhoh:

[SINGAPURCANAC]

@flowman,
Have you ever thought who will gain something(money) in such situation?
1. Oil producers
2. Airports companies and related services(ANSPs not included)

So Eurocontrol and their ANSPs work for richest,not for us! :ugh:

[eyeinthesky]

Not in, but I understand there are serious staff shortages on the West End sectors.

Safety day in progress today: some staff called off it to provide a safe resolution to the West End sectors.

[flowman]

Yeah, at one point virtually the whole West end was being run as one sector.
What's a safety day then?

[Scooby Don't]

"Righto chaps, this is a safety day. Do as you normally do, but without all the f***ing up. Got it?" :E:E:E

[Phantom99]

It was a day where we discussed planner and ATSA roles and their contribution to the safe running of the sectors and the integration into the "team". Also discussed at our day were operations using a support controller (or planner), use of the Traffic Load Prediction Device, overloads and the summer's operations with less controllers than last year.

I'll leave it to others to discuss the merits of such a day. By the end of the course, every valid planner and ATSA will have attended.

[45 before POL]

There is potential for these delays to run all this month(not every day) as rostoring of these safety days have been incorporated into the shift times and not on days off, so ops are running light on staff. Better now i guess than in August:E:E:E

[DtyCln]

:ok:I think the Planner / ATSA Safety days finish around March 12th, planned to finish before the Easter holiday weekend.

[flowman]

Thanks for the info.:ok:

[320 or greater]

I think that they're on all month because mine is on the 13th march and other people on watch have theirs later this month

[320 or greater]

Actually having thought about it, the delay was probably due to all the excitement caused by having a camera crew in the ops room yesterday. Stand by for 'informative and motivating' company drivel heading your way!!

[ImnotanERIC]

as stated above, not EVERY valid planner will have attended one of these safety days.

A day to be told to do as you normally do, is stupid. put the people back in the room and let operations run a little bit smoother.

Don't forget you had better split the sector early or you could end up with bad actors running around in day glow watch sup vests!! honk honk

[matspart3]

They've remembered that it's the Cheltenham Festival next Tues-Fri presumably? Lots of extra charters and corporate from Ireland stooging through the West End mid morning and early evening....

[Arkady]

"as stated above, not EVERY valid planner will have attended one of these safety days."

Who is exempt ....and why?

[anotherthing]

I would have liked to have thought that every planner was exempt... surely a day of teaching common sense is a day wasted? If not, it shows that the training scheme has failed to teach some basic concepts before validation.

Just a question - are planners on sectors valid as tactical controllers on that sector?
If not, why not?
If they are then surely the only lesson that needs (needs being a strong word as it's common sense) teaching is that when you are a planner, you can assist the tactical by thinking ahead using such thought processes as "If I was the Tac controller now, what would I want a good support guy to be doing for me".

I'm sure that the majority of Planners work in this way anyway.

[macker]

...when you are a planner, you can assist the tactical by thinking ahead using such thought processes as "If I was the Tac controller now, what would I want a good support guy to be doing for me".

I'm sure that the majority of Planners work in this way anyway.

They should, and most do.

However some planners, unfortunately, think like this:

"****e, if I'd got here two minutes earlier I'd be the exec controller now, having all the fun. But now I'm sitting here watching this rubbish. At the first opportunity, I'm going to jump in on the frequency and sort it out."

Not exactly TRM...

[Arkady]

First of all I'd still like an answer to my original question - Who (according to Imnotaneric) is exempt from the safety days?

"....surely a day of teaching common sense is a day wasted? If not, it shows that the training scheme has failed to teach some basic concepts before validation."

I'm in complete agreement with you here but it should be remembered that these Planner & ATSA safety days came about as a direct response to comments from shop floor ATCOs during last years round of Safety Days. WE told management that we wanted the standards of planning to improve and these Safety days are part of the response. Perhaps they are inadequate or even inappropriate but I'd argue that they are better than nothing.

The key, of course, is the content of the training prior to validation, but improving this will only help those currently under training. How to reach those who are valid but perceived to be under performing?

In general terms I thing the Safety Days are a valuable forum. ATCOs bleat on constantly about their concerns not being addressed by management. Every single ATCO at LAC attends a Safety Day (not withstanding I.N.A.Erics information) and has an oppurtunity to make their concerns known. For that fact alone I think they are worth it. As for the delays, well, its good to see our management prepared to take a hit to service delivery to act on the concerns of the staff however effectively that might actually be.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Can't management roster them as a 'clawback' day on a day off, or does everyone work the max number of conditioned hours over the year in the roster ??

[1985]

Can't management roster them as a 'clawback' day on a day off,

Not as far as i understand. They gave us options of when to do them either on core days or spins, so that makes them rostered shifts. They said in mine that they would take the hit of ATC delays so that we would all get to attend one. Everywhere has been short of bodies, but it just shows how short the west end is.


Just a question - are planners on sectors valid as tactical controllers on that sector?
If not, why not?


Not every planner is valid as a tactical, the main reason is that they are LAS's who have had to drop their tac ticket because they can't get enough tac time so that they feel comfortable when on the sector. For some others it maybe a third sector and again they don't get enough tac time or as a third sector they have never been trained as a tac, just planner only (managements choice).

[anotherthing]

1985,

Thanks for explaining the fact that you can be a planner without being a valid TAC :ok:

Kind of a backward step as far as I am concerned, I personally would like to be sat as a TAC knowing that my planner would be willing and capable to jump in and man and boy the frequency with me when it got a bit tasty - as it regularly does nowadays, thanks to manpower levels.

The amount of times a coordinator in TC will just gently nudge a controller or anticipate something and then do some proactive coordinating is quite high when busy. Even to the point of making executive control decisions for the controller then telling the controller to implement them. Obviously this can only be done because the coordinator has an intimate and current knowledge of the sector.

This is a coordinator who can be coordinating for 5 or 6 positions simultaneously. Being valid on the sectors is IMHO a great asset (and a necessity in TC to be able to coordinate).

To have that level of backup from a planner would surely be preferable(though I am sure there are many planners who do operate in this manner).

[Mr Red]

Anotherthing, I wholly agree!!

Some of the LAS's who only hold a planner ticket do it so infrequently that they actually become a hinderence when it is busy!!

A quality planner, IMHO, is one who is way ahead of the game and doesn't sit there and wait to be asked to do this or do that!!

I also wouldn't like to be planner only on a sector that I have never done Tactical on as you don't really understand the intricacies of the sector unless you have been in the hotseat!

The situation of Planner taking the R/T occurred a few cycles back when I was planning and my Tactical had frequency problems and I had to use the R/T on my console to take over. If that had been a planner only and an 'incident' happened who would have taken he flak??

[anotherthing]

I'd just like to qualify my post (number 20 of this thread) as I don't want this to get into a AC/TC willy waving contest, by saying that there are a small handful of coordinators on the TC side who are not exactly proactive or too helpful all of the time...

That's just human beings for you but at least they do have the knowledge that if you ask them to do something, they should be competent and capable.

Similarly, as I have stated before, I am sure there are a large number of good, proactive planners.

I have had my bacon saved a couple of times (and saved other peoples a few times as well) by the fact that the coordinator has pointed out a potential mistake/oversight. There's no room for egos, it's just getting the job done :ok:

[eyeinthesky]

Anotherthing:

Spot on!

ImnotanERIC: No perhaps you're not (but with comments like yours I'm beginning to wonder), but I bet you're not perfect, either.
If just one or two people go away from the safety days with something which they will use one day which will prevent an overload or mid-air collision, then it has to be worthwhile, don't you think? Just think, you might be on the one this person decides to help one day. But then, you don't need help, do you...:rolleyes:

[LostThePicture]

Thumbs down for the safety days this year, I think.

The general shop-floor consensus is that the days have been boring and not a constructive use of time (not least on a core day). The problem with a forum like this year's safety days is that the people who shout the loudest are the ones who are heard.... all day long. Note that these are not necessarily the people who have the most relevant issues - several people I have spoken to have said that the days have been used by the more vocal members of the group as an opportunity to spout vitriol about other sectors/ATCOs/ATSAs/procedures. Occasionally entertaining, but rarely constructive.

The opening question for discussion on my safety day, to paraphrase it, was "What do ATSAs do that p*ss you off when you're working as a planner?" The ATSAs, in the room at the same time, were asked a similar question about the planners. Call me controversial, but I would say that's a rather counterproductive way to assess any problems that may or may not exist. And in general, these problems DON'T exist - trust management to get the wrong end of the stick though.

Planner-only validities are the biggest threat to the ongoing safe ATC operation at LAC. A lack of feel for the tactical operation puts them at a disadvantage straight away, and few people who hold these tickets achieve enough useful hours a month in the hotseat to keep them competent. Unfortunately, management currently see planner-only validations as an ideal sticking-plaster treatment for achieving the required flexibility to allow the operation to continue when the dreaded iFACTS training begins. As anotherthing says, this is a retrograde solution which no-one at the shop-floor level likes. Any deficiencies in the planner-only valid controllers should be identified by the LCE scheme - but of course there is understandable pressure on LCEs to allow these people with barely satisfactory skills to remain part of the operation to provide cover during the summer etc etc.

But all the above is merely a digression - the issue of the thread is the staff shortage. If there's one thing the safety days this year might have achieved, it will be to show those in management that we are hopelessly ill-prepared for the busy periods this summer. The operation runs on next to no contingency at the best of times, and might scrape through another summer with the help of a vast raft of AAVAs if we're lucky. LAC was understaffed when it arrived at Swanwick six years ago, and staff numbers have continued to fall ever since. It only takes a few controllers to be absent from the ops room in winter to cause extensive delays (I'm guessing we must be well over 100,000 minutes as a direct result of the safety days). While on the one hand management can be applauded for taking the hit for what they view as an important day for all ATCOs and ATSAs, the delays are surely an ominous sign that the house is not in order?

Of course, the company would not be stupid enough to plan these safety days for, say, this weekend (Ireland vs Wales) or most of next week (Cheltenham Festival) would they?! Especially when the West End sectors are those that are suffering from lack of staff the most?!

LTP

[anotherthing]

LTP -

As a TC bod, I feel for you guys, especially regarding the issue of staffing.

The big problem is, until people are prepared to stand up and be counted by refusing to do AAVAs then the situation will not improve.

Management would possibly see any mass consensus (or at least any attempt to get one) as a possible disciplinary offence (though how, I do not know), but just one month, say July/Aug or Sept, of solidarity with all staff in your Ops room agreeing to refuse AAVAs would make the management wake up and smell the coffee.

I'm far from a militant, union loving person, but until staff stand up for themselves and their wellbeing they are going to be trodden down.

AAVAs are a cheap and flexible way for management to staff the Ops room - it is a good way of wallpapering over the cracks.

Unfortunately as is human nature, the very people who complain of staff shortages i.e. shop floor workers, shoot themselves in the foot by aiding and abetting the glossing over by accepting AAVAs.

A quick fix would obviously not be achieved, but it needs to be brought to that attention to the management in a way that will hit them hard. You have said that AC have been short of staff for over 6 years now... it's maybe time that if the Union is not going to be robust, the workforce should be.

Although a quick fix is not feasible, it's ridiculous that things are getting worse over the six years period you mention, not better.

[ImnotanERIC]

eyeinthesky- i never said i didn't need help, infact I am more than happy to receive it. Probably not as much as you are glad for it, but hey ho.

honk honk



I also did not mean that some planners were exempt form these magnificent safety days, just that I know for a fact that not every valid planner will have attended one when they have finished the rounds.