Irish Training

[fireoff]

Hi there. I would like to do my training in Ireland and Ireland only so please dont say heres better and theres better I just want to know out of the following which would be the best in terms of value for money and what you get.

PTC Waterford / Atlantic Flight Training Cork / National Flight Centre Weston.

Many Thanks and no fighting:)

[deltaxray]

Hey.
I did my ppl in Atlantic and i have nothing but praise for them. Their a great bunch of people who seem to care about what they do. Instructors are always there to help you when you need it and are only too happy to do so. Im at PTC at the moment doing the ATPL'S. They seem ok so far. FSI in Florida (where they send you to do the hour building) is a great establishment with dedicated instructors and a well maintained fleet of aircraft. You will find VERY different views of PTC so my advice is decide yourself because as with all flight schools, there are going to be people there who love ot and others that hate it.:ok:

[jiffajaffa]

Fireoff,

Done all my flying training in Atlantic in Cork, fantastic setup all fairly new c172's fully equppied IR machines no **** boxes lying around and the instructors are a good bunch, you will find that with Cork its an International Airport and a lot busier than the likes of Waterford, the only flaw with Atlantic is when I got to the stage of my CPL/MEIR they have only 1 twin, which was overbooked however with expansion plans and there recent takeover of South Aer and the building next door there is plans for a FNPT2 to be installed and rumours of a new twin on the way things can only get better, The level of instruction when you get to CPL/IR level is second to none all airline pilots or ex airline pilots even a few examiners from the IAA guys who are really experienced and this is very important at this stage in your training. The flying should cost you around 56k without the exams, mcc, flight test fees etc which is reasonable compared to other schools, if you have any other questions on Atlantic let me know and ill try my best to answer!

Thats my piece said! :D

[Hyph]

Is the weather at Cork really suitable for training?

Seems to suffer from fog due to proximity to the sea and the elevation AMSL.

I remember going to see a school there years and years ago... can't remember the name, out of biz for donkeys now. Flew nice (but yellow) Grob 115s.

[jiffajaffa]

Yellow grobs?? I think they have them up in NFC in Weston, Atlantic have 1 but its not yellow!!

In Cork u get the usual coastal weather I wouldnt say its ideal for training but can be challenging!! :)

[PCTool]

The yellow grobs are from a large training school that is gone for many years...the name escapes me...it was based on the ramp at Cork airport.

[fireoff]

Thanks for that info everyone. One more quickie for you/ye, can you do the atpl with atlantic and is is €56k for the whole course?? That's a bit of a difference from ptc and deltaxray why did you do your ppl with atlantic and then go to ptc fot the atpl?

Thanks,
fireoff

[deltaxray]

To be honest....it was'nt my decision. Im only 19 and because this is such an expensive career, i needed help from my parents to fund it. The only snag was they wanted me to go to PTC. I was glad i did the ppl in cork though because i got some good experience in IFR conditions ehm (Keep it on the QT):} Atlantic have started the ATPL course and to the best of my knowledge it is about €56k.

[fireoff]

Thanks for that. Do you know if Atlantic do the MCC? Do you know if you are sent somewhere else like PTC to Vero Beach?.....and I wont say a thing:ok:

[deltaxray]

No. Atlantic dont do the MCC and you do all your flying on cork. There is no problem with you going to the states to do some hours building but Atlantic dont do it themselves. Business is starting to pick up massively with the closure of south aer now so the volume of students is growing. If you were to chose them i would see if i could get regular bookings first. There should be no problem with that though. Their very accommodating.

[fireoff]

Ok thanks for that info. You can now consider this thread closed.

Many Thanks,
fireoff

[suas]

Hi All
Some questions about Atlantic FLight Centre in Cork. I'm new to the game and want to start flying in August, was considering Integrated course with, PTC, Sigmar or Cabair. But Cork is closer to home. Can you tell me if they run full time courses, do they run atpl, how long does each of the courses (or all together) take, roughly. Any other info you have about them would be great.
Suas

[ATOMATOFLAMES]

Hi all,

I'm a current PTC student, in Vero Beach at the moment doing my PPL. PTC seem to get a bit of a mixed reaction depending who you ask.
I've found them to be quite good so far, some very good instructors in Waterford and FSI in Vero is quite a professional setup with quite a big fleet of aircraft. What made me choose PTC was the timeframe in which you get through the course, being in Florida for my PPL helps as practically every day has good weather for flying.

As for ATPL's up until recently PTC had a distance learning program for ATPL's i.e you study from home via an online course guide. But they now have a structured classroom environment course for ATPL's or you can still choose to do distance learning from home if you wish. If you decided to take the classroom option you can either do it in WIT in Waterford or you can stay on after your PPL and do the ATPL course in Florida (JAA ATPL)
With the structured classroom ATPL course you would do 4 days a week of ground school and 2 days of flying. If you stay on in Florida to do them your last 14 hours are in a twin engine Piper Seminole and you also do an FAA checkride for a multi engine rating, so you would have both a JAA and FAA ME rating.

[flyb14]

In response directly to ATOMATOFLAMES comment,

The reason you still think PTC are fantastic is this, ( and I beleived it just like you! )
You are currently In vero beach with Flight Safety Academy, one of the best schools around for quality and committment to your training.
Everything works smoothly while you are in Vero Beach because you are dealing with Flight Safety Only!

The problems only begin once you return home, if you return home, and you have to deal directly with PTC. Your Eyes will very quickly be opened ATOMATOFLAMES. ( Like the name, VFR day equipment )

The sad thing is, we can only do our best here and warn future students about PTC. If you have the option of staying at Flight safety, then take it!!

But be aware, there are two seperate companies in Flight Safety Vero Beach now. One is Flight Safety Internation, one of the finest training companies around.
The other company is PTC Florida, and this is who you will be dealing with.
It is still PTC, its just PTC with Sunshine! Thats the only difference.

[corsair]

was considering Integrated course with, PTC, Sigmar or Cabair

Of those mentioned only Cabair do an integrated course. Both of the others are modular although they integrate each course sequentially.

Certain schools have been very disengenuous in the way they present their courses.

Frankly I would suggest that the best optiion is to take a leaf out of PTC's book and go to Flight Safety in Vero Beach on your own behalf. Come home with an FAA ticket and then either go to the NFC or Atlantic or go to the UK and do the conversion course to convert to JAA. You'll save a packet.

[suas]

flyb14

what exactly happened to you at waterford. were you hugely over charged, did you not come out with the right hours or results etc were ou sitting around waiting to fly

[suas]

corsair

some questions, stupid ones perhaps but maybe you can clarify.
if i do an faa ppl with night rating and build to 150 hours in the states. Do i need to convert that when i come home to start ATPL at (lets say) atlantic in Cork and continue with CPL/ME/IR also what do you think of below plan

Would appreciate some comments on the following plan for a fast modular course. Are prices/budgets and time scale practical. What is the likelyhood of a good chance with an airline (Cityjet, Aer Arann, Flybe etc etc) at the end of this plan.

PPL and night rating at Orlando Flight Training 4 weeks €10,000
120 Hours Buliding in US 6 weeks €12,000
Dist learn ground school at Atlantic Cork €10,000 incl accom 6 months
14 ATPL exams, €1500
Headsets, Stationary etc €5000
Fast Track CPL/Mulit/IR at PTC 6 weeks (or else where) €25,000
MCC €5000

Comes to about €70,000
and 11months, is this practical/possible/sensible??

Would greately appreciate ALL your views especially from those of you in the middle of training or recently finished. Trying to make a final decision is the hard bit.
Regards

[corsair]

I'll just copy over my reply from the Jerez thread.

No Suas, It will cost more and take longer.


PPL and night rating at Orlando Flight Training 4 weeks €10,000
It will probably take longer but you can eat into some of the time from:120 Hours Buliding in US 6 weeks €12,000
That might work
Full time ground school at PTC Waterford €10,000 incl accom 6 months
Don't do that. Do it online as distance learning and save about 7k
14 ATPL exams, €1500
Fine
Headsets, Stationary etc €5000
That is more than sufficient. Paperwork must be really expensive now:confused:
Fast Track CPL/Mulit/IR at PTC 6 weeks €25,000
I'm sure you've read all the bad press about PTC by now. It might take a bit more than six weeks wherever you do it. Remember you have to do all the hours for the IR. 55 hours in six weeks is tight without even mentioning the CPL.
MCC €5000
It can be done cheaper

Sounds like a plan.


After all that you will have the same chance of a job with the airlines as everyone else. A friend who did something similar just recently got an interview with Ryanair. So it's possible.

[suas]

goodman corsair , thanks

!!every one elses' comments still appreciated!!

next question, best set of books/study pack for ppl or is this school specific, i would like to start the book work before i get to a school

[tps]

"Of those mentioned only Cabair do an integrated course. Both of the others are modular although they integrate each course sequentially. "

Corsair- I'd check my facts before broadcasting statements on other FTO's training approvals.

Sigmar is a fully integrated ATP (A) JAR-FCL approved training programme and has never been modular.

and before everyone puts their hands in the air... yes I know this because I do work with them!

[HomerJay]

Does anyone know how much the IR costs with Atlantic? Single Engine IR that is. Emailed already and can't ring at the moment. Cheers.

[carlwantstofly]

Can I get some reviews about PTC in Waterford?

[niallbhoy]

I done my MEIR in Cork and have to say they were absolutely excellent. Really excellent lot with great instructors.

[corsair]

Can I get some reviews about PTC in Waterford?

From an ex Instructor (not me) stay away. The whole operation apart from the IR is to move to Flight Safety in Florida.

[a797]

PTC are ridiculously overpriced, 98k for a fatpl i believe it is now - thats outrageous.

However moving the whole operation to FSI would be good for students - the base in waterford is under equipped and often poorly run to meet the demands of the large amount of students there.

[bsal]

The National Flight Centre at Weston airport is a very good flying school. No cheating students out of money and they are the nicest people anyone could ever meet. Check out their website National Flight Centre - Home (http://www.nfc.ie/)

[Walk the line]

I agree with the above. NFC has a good setup and is all about the student. They do all training Modular and you "pay as you go"....they have packages too.

[a higher plane]

Be careful who you recommend. Everyone seems to have different experiences everywhere. I am aware of a number of students who have been very unhappy in NFC and who have successfully gone to cork or waterford and vice versa.

flybearann comments are nothing new and can be applied to nearly all flight schools anywhere.

And I sure with the way you are writing that you were the model student and passed everything first time and this rant is not just a cover up for your own failings/ shortcomings as regularly happens on this website.

Although I am sure alot of what you say is true to some degree, again as it is in all other schools.

This job is not for everyone and some are just not suited to it. It is easier to find out in other careers as you don't have to pay thousands to find your mistake.

Thats life!

[jeoffster23]

I couldnt agree more with Flybearann as a current PTC student I have experienced exactly what Flybearann describes. Yes of course all training schools will have certain issues however every week there is another issue with PTC.
The latest issues we have experienced include a reduction in IR flying hours replaced with sim hours and no refund to the student of the price difference. Charging for utilies in Florida (where our PPL is undertaken) which are already included in overall cost of the course to name a few. The list is endless.
Even their own Flight instructors and Ground instructors are totally disillusioned with PTC, speaks for itself really.
I walked into this course with an open mind regarding stories and hearsay but a year later I am more wiser, looking back I would definitely not have chosen PTC as an option as would many others in my class and other classes ahead and behind. Find me a student who has completed their course with PTC and show me just one who is happy with the overall quality of service they received! Very unfortunate but true.
No student wants to be complaining about their training and arranging solicitor visits to get what was originally outlined in the contract. Students just want to get on with their training and get what they paid for.
My only consolation of course is that PTC on their website advertise that 98% of all their students get a job within two months of course completion so no worries there!!!!!!!!????

[a797]

PTC on their website advertise that 98% of all their students get a job within two months of course completion so no worries there!!!!!!!!????


That is the biggest load of bull**** ever, the reality is that the majority of people who graduated from ptc in the last 9 months are jobless.

[flyer1977]

Couldn't agree more with Jeoffstar23....unfortunately at PTC students and instructors alike are merely € signs. It is a tragedy for what could be an outstanding flight training outfit if only they embraced their oft quoted "highly professional environment".

On a side note, where did flybarann's post go? Are we returning to the days of Pprune deleting inappropriate PTC posts?????

[PPRuNe Towers]

The poster deleted it and it's fair to say it was remorselessly critical of PTC's marketing claims beginning with the infamous 98%

All too common in the industry especially within their web output.

Good thing PPRuNe is around to pop those claims under scrutiny.

Rob

[flybearann]

**EDIT** Might aswell leave it up for ****s and giggles. All the best PTC!:ok:

Its about time someone spoke up about PTC.

Once you pass the "one-day assessment course" you are just a number on an accounts spread sheet. PTC don't care about you or your career prospects, once Mike Edgeworth is laughing all the way to the bank, everyone in PTC is a winner, bar the student!

The lies start from the very beginning. Take a look at their website:

"PTC graduates work for some of the most successful airlines worldwide - 98% of our graduates get hired within two months of graduating"

This is a complete and utter lie!! Out of more than twenty students who have finished the airline programme, three have jobs. A few have passed Ryanair interviews and are waiting to start the TR course, I would nt count that as being hired within two months or graduating.

"Suitably qualified students of PTC are guaranteed an interview with an airline following graduation." Another lie. Once you finish your training, managment will be all smiles as they take photos and walk you out the door. You will not hear from them again until they are sending incorrect bills to your house by registered post. All students past and present have been bombarded with incorrect bills! PTC WILL DO NOTHING TO GET YOU A JOB

"Adherence to a computerised scheduling system together with continuous availability of our aircraft (supported by our own on-field maintenance facility), ensures a timely progression through the training programme." This is incorrect. There scheduling system is a disaster. Expect to be flying 4.00-6.00 hours per week, no more and no less. This is due to lack of aircraft, instructors and a que of people waiting to start on the FNPT II.

"The Pilot Training College of Ireland (PTC) fleet consists of Piper Arrows, Warriors and Seminoles. PTC also has Cessna 172 and Robin aircraft for PPL and CPL training. All aircraft are clean, modern well-equipped aircraft which are meticulously maintained at our fully certified on-field maintenance facility." I would use the term "fleet" very loosly. Does 3 Seminoles and one out of action indefinatly count as a fleet? Aircraft are always going tech.

There are instructors working there with good intentions and I hate to drag them down, but managment go out of there way everyday to think of new ways to piss students off, tell them lies and get extra cash.

Please, don t be taken in by the marketing ploy, the lies and the promises. Something needs to be done about flight schools like PTC ripping people off, its not fair.

So you ask the question, knowing what I know now would I of went to PTC?


NO!!!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif

[corsair]

I'm often cautious of criticisms of organisations. All too often the critic turns out be one the usual losers who can't hack it or is too lazy to put in the work. Of course it's not their fault. It has to be someone else's.

But I think PTC really do need to put their house in order. Perhaps their recent move of most training to Florida will do that. When an Instructor who still works for them described PTC in unflattering terms to me. Then I'm convinced. The other two schools have their issues too but frankly they don't present themselves in the same way as PTC does.

I have personal experience of the NFC and yes at times there have been issues. But I would always recommend them. Despite our famed bad weather. I know of individuals who got through their PPL there in weeks rather than months despite the weather. I have often owed them a few quid (ahem) and have never been chased for it. Mostly a polite reminder, if that. This certainly wouldn't be true of PTC by all accounts.

I think this is a pity, as PTC was a damm good idea. It just seems to be poorly executed.

[a797]

Agreed that PTC had/still has potential to be an excellent FTO. Unfortunately the emphasis has been placed solely on profit above quality training/customer care and it shows.

There is a core of dedicated career instructors there who are good people and excellent instructors - however their efforts are undermined by management.

[flybearann]

Couldn't agree with the last post more. Great instructors, extremely poor management! I had enough of them while I was there, but kept my mouth shut to get out of the place quickly, didn't want any hassle. But when they had the neck to bombard me with incorrect bills and not even ask me if I had any luck on the jobs front or needed anything, I thought it was time to expose the shower!

As the other folks have said, hopefully the move to Florida will sort everything out, as PTC, under a good management team has great potential.

BTW, I take it they got their JAA approval back?:ok: