planning a very long trip

[jxc]

Hi Guys

Would like some feed back and suggestions.
1/2 through my ppl once that is done and in the bag i want to build some hours for cpl etc and i would like to plan a trip from UK across to Romania and then on to Namibia ( to see aunty and cousin ) then fly back another route to Uk poss up south spain.

Does this sound to much of a pipe dream ?
i know my flight instructor is up for the uk ro romania part and have possibly and other mate (cpl) who poss would like the rest . However i am sure it cant be that hard to find someone wanting to do the same

suggestion on type of single i should choose based on would like a diesel
days to complete or weeks !

any thing else you can recommend

cheers

[fireflybob]

Go for it but make sure you planned thoroughly and get as much help as you can.

You will need diplomatic clearance to overfly/enter certain countries and they all have different requirements - some will want specific details of your flight plan even at this stage.

Not sure I would advise a diesel for this - whats the availability of Jet A1 like for the airports you intend to visit? Maybe I am wrong but you need to check this.

Go for an a/c with bags of range and thats comfortable.

Good Luck - hope to see your postings in pprune with photos when you have done the trip!

[IFollowRailways]

Sounds a great trip - However............. I assume you are thinking of renting an aircraft for the trip?

If so, I think you may experience some difficulty organising a trip like this for at least the two reasons below - And I am sure there are many more!

1) I'm not sure how keen an aircraft renter would be to see it disappear into deepest Africa. Even a minor breakdown or incident could end up very expensive in terms of both time and money. I honestly can't see anyone lending/renting you an aircraft to do it in.

2) You will be well outside of the "normal" insurance geographical coverage area. Outside normal = big money!

[IO540]

JXC

I have sent you a PM with some info.

In a nutshell, avgas gets hard once out of the main bit of Europe, and you are likely to need stuff like crew visas, overflight and landing permits, etc.

I would start here (http://www.overflight.co.uk). I have never used them myself but I have never been further than Crete. And Greece is hard enough when one is looking for Customs, Avgas and reasonable PPR requirements all at the same time :)

Other than the legal/logistics, flying long trips is easy. The boring bit is having to fly all the way back, so it is better to pick a different route.

And always pick stops which are interesting in their own right, so if you get stuck there you have something to do.

Carry a decent toolkit, spare plugs etc etc.

Being able to burn avtur is a huge advantage but only if the engine lasts the trip :)

[LH2]

Great trip idea mate. I'm trying (Ok, not very hard :) ) to organise something similar. What others have said, all good advice so far in my very limited experience.

Just to confirm, do you mean Namibia the country in southwestern Africa? God that is a long way :eek: 5000nm just to get there as the crow flies. :bored:

Again as others mentioned, the flying is relatively easy. The hardest part I've found so far about trying to get to Africa (other than "mainstream" places like Morocco) is the planning and logistics. I for one would be very interested to hear about your progress (maybe set up a blog at some point?) I promise I will do the same when my African plans kick into gear again.

Just a few random thoughts:

+ I think if I were to attempt such a trip I might look into buying some cheap wreck of a plane (perhaps a microlight) that I wouldn't mind leaving behind if the need arises for whatever reason.

+ Consider you will need to pass at least a couple 50hr checks while on the way.

+ I would personally go to speak to one of the operations handling agencies, such as the guys IO540 mentioned, or anyone else experienced in this area, to see what advice and information they can give.

btw, have you considered getting sponsored?

[jxc]

are you offering ?

[IO540]

Southern Africa has been done by a number of UK pilots but AFAIK most of them used extensive logistics support.

The rest did it in very basic and economical planes, which used any local car petrol, and my guess is that if you look mad enough you don't get much trouble because everybody looks at you as a curiosity.

[LH2]

are you offering ?

Nope, unless you want a "self-sponsored" co-pilot :}

Southern Africa has been done by a number of UK pilots

Any links to photos/narrative?

[172driver]

Great idea, but:

a) you'll need some serious logistics. The main problem is the Avgas availability, which, in vast parts of Africa, simply isn't there. That said, a diesel would take care of the problem, if you find one that'll last the distance, that is :E

b) the overflight permits can be sorted out, there are specialist companies for that, but AFAIK this doesn't come cheap (then again, if you're planing this kind of jolly, money may not be the issue....)

c) having myself flown quite a bit in Namibia, Morocco (and as pax on light a/c in many other remote parts of Africa), let me just point out that this is perhaps not exactly the type of flying for a newly minted PPL.

Good luck with your PPL anyway :ok:

[IO540]

Any links to photos/narrative?

I am not aware of any but have seen some on the web.

One group did a long fly-out to Egypt a few years back - there is avgas at Luxor (HELX) and a decent tourer can do Luxor from Crete (LGIR or LGST). But you need the special permits and visas for Egypt.

Don't forget airline visa waiver doesn't work for GA - you need visas for e.g. USA so the stupid trip to the embassy in London and fingerprints all round.... In fact one needs a visa for just about every 3rd world country but again the overlfight permit firms can get crew visas fast - much faster than going to the various embassies. But a passenger without a PPL is not "crew"; I've been caught by this a few times in e.g. Greece where they charge you extra per passenger.

A PPL who can fly can easily do any long trip. A GPS with the appropriate coverage is really really handy; I would say mandatory but then 50 people will jump up and show examples of somebody flying to the S Pole and back in 1915 wearing a leather hat and goggles and using a map and compass :) What they wont' talk about is the other 50 who got lost and vanished. A GPS takes all the stress out of nav, and believe me, ATC in the 3rd world gets awfully nervous awfully fast if you get lost. It's not like the UK where if you end up overhead Heathrow you "just" get an interview with the CAA.

And with navigation sorted, flying is a piece of cake. That leaves the logistics, mobile communications (for PPR notifications, flight plan filing, getting weather, etc) and having to stay in some awful hotels.

For an extreme example, look up Simon Oliphant-Hope's writeup (was in one of the mags a few years back) helicopter trip around the world. He went via Russia and IIRC spent US$60,000 bribing his way through that one country alone.

I might do Luxor one day but that is as far as I am going.

[AfricanEagle]

I am currently planning a flight from Rome to Kenya in a C206 flying down the east side of Africa.

Can confirm what already said.

Avgas is scarse and expensive. After Luxor little seems to be available until reaching Kenya. Sudan cannot be considered a stopover. Long range tanks are desirable.

You will want a specialised outfit to deal with crew visas, overflight and landing permits. Buy some eupalettes to get through airport authorities with more ease.

Stock up with survival equipment. Get a sat phone. Carry food, stopover airports don't have european restaurants or vendor machines.

I normally fly compass and map, but a gps will definitely ease the navigation aspect. You will probably be required to fly airline routings most of the way.

And don't be in a hurry. Africa is Africa, time has no meaning. Fly "pole pole".

[IO540]

Sudan cannot be considered a stopover. Long range tanks are desirable.

Do you plan to overfly Sudan, AE?

It's an awfully long way from Luxor, without landing in Sudan. That is a big ferry tank. I have just measured Luxor-Kenya at about 1800nm. I do vaguely recall similar trips (down the east coast of Africa) stopping in Sudan but they had avgas shipped in, in drums. A challenge was to make sure it did not get stolen before you got there.

[172driver]

IO, I researched this trip a little while back and you'd probably go into Ethiopia on the way south. You could then perhaps go into Lokichokio (Kenya) to refuel, although I do not know if this is a port of entry (been there years ago, but came from Nairobi).

Guess pre-positioning of Avgas is 'de rigeur', unless perhaps one flies a C210 with the tip tanks - 10 hrs endurance (not for the weak bladdered....:=).

On a practical note, I frankly wouldn't try this w/o GPS. In fact, preferably two units. If using a hand-held, make sure you've got the booster antenna, makes all the difference! Obviously hand-held radio, a wad of small-denomination dollars (and perhaps euros) water, food and - patience. As AE has correctly pointed out, haste is not a good thing to have in Africa.

[BackPacker]

In fact one needs a visa for just about every 3rd world country but again the overlfight permit firms can get crew visas fast - much faster than going to the various embassies. But a passenger without a PPL is not "crew"; I've been caught by this a few times in e.g. Greece where they charge you extra per passenger.

Just out of interest. I assume you know a while in advance which non-PPL passenger you are going to take. Suppose you send this passenger off to do the standalone FRTOL (as if he or she was going to be an A/G operator - I believe the FRTOL/comms exam for such an operator is exactly the same as for a PPL) and then claim that the passenger is crew because he/she operates the radios in the aircraft. Would that work?

Oh, and for stories of really long trips... www.earthrounders.com

[IO540]

I don't know, BP. All I know is that I have tried this in Greece, to save a lot of money (about 50 euro) and they asked to see my girlfriend's "pilot's license".

not for the weak bladdered

That should not be an issue for anybody flying seriously - you carry one of those plastic bottles. I always carry several small fruit juice bottles with a screw top - they can be discarded after landing without the bother of having to wash out the dedicated type. I've been desperate for a wee after 1 1hr flight in the UK winter.

[172driver]

IO, locked your sense of humour away somewhere today ;) ??

[IO540]

Yeah, it happens :)

But it does suprise me how many people say they won't do long flights due to this "problem".

[LH2]

Plastic bottles??? :confused:

"Put yer coat on darling

...I'm gonna open the door for a sec" :}

[andrepilota]

It seems that one of the biggest problems is avgas fuel.....why don`t u guys think of usin an ultralight instead of a "conventional" airplane?

on ulm u can easily put car fuel,you might not be able to climb to FL070,but still,it would make your life a hell of a lot easier.

ps:there`s some ultralight that cruise around 120-130 kts,and very similar to a PA28.

Only con would be the max takeoff weight tho,but if oyu`re going for an adventure you might not need to bring that much luggage.

god luck to all anyways,give me a call should u need an extra pilot/pax. :ok:

[172driver]

you might not be able to climb to FL070

errrr..... in quite a few parts of eastern and southern Africa the GROUND is above FL 070......

:eek: