Jetstar leasing 8 extra A320s?

[Boomerang]

I've just read on a Dutch aviation site that Jetstar will lease 8 A320s from BOC leasing. Delivery end 2010 to 2011. Can't see anything on PPrune or Jetstar news? Good to hear more expansion is happening if it's true. :ok:

[Henry Winkler]

Yeah, Great. If you live in Singapore.


Qantas inks deal to lease eight planes from BOC

Qantas Airways (Sydney) has agreed to lease another eight (8) Airbus A320 aircraft from BOC Aviation. The aircraft will be delivered between the third quarter of 2010 and the first quarter of 2011 to Jetstar, Qantas’ low-cost Singapore-based subsidiary. Qantas already leases three (3) A320s from BOC Aviation.

[ebt]

I'd say that this is more likely going to be for JQ than 3K because 3K just can't get it together. Three of their aircraft are currently sub-leased to JQ, so I wouldn't imagine that they would go about leasing more aircraft. Looks to me like a journo didn't check their facts right, but hey i could be wrong.

[Henry Winkler]

Maybe.

I do know that 30 of the A320's in that order for 68, are going to Vietnam, so it is possible that they are trying to build up the Asian arm.

[OhForSure]

As I understand it Pacific Airlines only have 3 or 4 classics, so 30 A320s would be an incredible amount of growth... (Mind you, I have no reason to doubt you Henry).

Does anyone know the actual breakdown of Jetstar orders? JQ 3K & PA???

Assuming these 8 leases go to Singapore, the 30 go to Vietnam and the rest go to Jetstar Aus: That leaves 38 of the 68 ordered recently plus the other 9 that were ordered previously... for a total of 47 new narrowbodies for Aus???

Anyone?

[Henry Winkler]

Gday For sure.

They have 9 737's at the moment. My info comes second (or maybe third) hand from a QF secondee to Pacific airlines. 30 A320's by 2011. If all goes as I have been told, Not too many will actually make it to Austraila.

But as I say it's all second hand from a QF bloke.

[QF22]

Pacific only have 4x 737-400 and one one the way makes 5 total.
But more A320s on the way later this year when J* can find some.
J* have sourced 3xA321s ex American Airlines which needs major mods b4 going into service. That's how desperate they are !
Cheers

[Henry Winkler]

Ok. I stand corrected. 4 737's.

[hongkongfooey]

Mmmm, 10 A320s a year for the next 3 years ( or 7.5 for 4 years ), anyone else reckon thats a little ambitious :confused:

[Skystar320]

J* have sourced 3xA321s ex American Airlines which needs major mods b4 going into service

AA don't operate the A321 series aircraft...

[MELKBQF]

The 321s JQ are operating are from Spirit Airlines in the US. They are currently bulk loaded. Jq is modifying them so they can hold containers. They will initially enter service bulk loaded and be modified about 3 months latter when the kits becom avaliable.

[TMAK]

Guys,

I dont think Pacific are getting 30 A320's..at last report I think it sits somewhere between 12-15 over the next 3-4 years and that includes replacement of the existing 737 aircraft. But like anything if it booms and is more beneficial than Aus then I guess they will get the planes.

There are a few slotted for 3K as things are expected to pick up over next few years, with more than half of course (along with A321) being for Aus Dom, Short-mid range Int (Oz to Asia & trans tas) and possibly NZ Dom (saw something mentioned in media about that last week.

Yep appears the 321's (first 3 at least) are from Spirit, the other 17 are new.

Cheers

[Skystar320]

Yep appears the 321's (first 3 at least) are from Spirit, the other 17 are new.

Strange, Spirit hasnt had these aircraft for long and only have 7 321's in the fleet. They are growing at a rapid pace so why get rid of these A321's?

[Skystar320]

J* have sourced 3xA321s ex American Airlines which needs major mods b4 going into service. That's how desperate they are !


Thats the incorrect terminology to speak, doesnt matter if they are desperate or not

Take for an example if you take a BAe 146 out of America and to put it in service in Australia you would have to convert the C - Class bulk hold due to the fact that FAA aviation laws are completely different to that of casa and would need changing. Lead time for conversion would be 2months.

:ok::ok::ok:

[aulglarse]

They're 6 years old and they're cheap! Any suitable airframes Jq can get their hands on to increase capacity while awaiting for the production line models to turn up in the future.

[Skystar320]

They're 6 years old and they're cheap!

CN: 1195, 1408, 1438 are manufactured in 00/01 and are powered by V2533-A5

You mention cheap? I dont bloody think so old chap. Everyone knows that the current aviation industry is in a boom and all types of aircraft [abeit very few 1970-1985 frames are cheap]

Even a 92 MFD A320 with 5A1 powered engines still set;s you back US$17.5million

a 1989 B737-300 ex UA bird sits at US$12million

[JetRacer]

Even a 92 MFD A320 with 5A1 powered engines still set;s you back US$17.5million

a 1989 B737-300 ex UA bird sits at US$12million

Whats a B717 worth?? :E:}

[QF22]

Sorry I was misinformed, or maybe the instructor said an "American Airline"?
Anyway as well as cargo mods, they will also be fitted with an additional centre tank in the aft hold, so they can operate Perth to Singapore.
Cheers

[windytown]

Interesting comment about the centre tank. It suggests that the Perth to Singapore route will be operating before the new build A321s arrive.

So do these A321 go off the Melbourne to Queensland routes once winter sets in?

[OhForSure]

Hmmm... that doesn't add up. The A321's JQ has ordered (including the 3 ex-NK models) are -200's, which have a range of up to 3000nm. Thats roughly equal to the A320-232s they currently fly, which are more than capable of operating PER-SIN with reserves and taking into consideration adverse winds. So why the need for the 'additional' centre tank? I've been under the impression that the -200s came fitted with the additional tank already, and as the aircraft said to be coming from Spirit are -200s, wouldn't the additional centre tank already be installed? :confused:

Happy to stand corrected. :ok:

[Shot Nancy]

I don’t see what all the fuss is about. There are rumours and then there are red herrings.
I haven’t checked the MSNs but the A321 can have one Additional Centre Tank (ACT) giving 20.9t FOB, two ACTs or no ACTs. Just because they are there doesn’t mean you have to use them. In fact they impinge on cargo capacity so would only be fitted if routinely needed. I wouldn’t get stressed.
A310, A319, A320, A321 and A340s may be fitted with ACTs.
Until they takeoff with you on board it hasn’t happened.

[TMAK]

These first 3 aircraft are bulk loaded so no ACT installed yet...this apparently will be done later in the year. Yes they will be heading to the sunshine state come winter.

[Henry Winkler]

Well I was pretty close. Only the year was wrong.

Monday 14 April 2008

The Australian
Jetstar flies into $50 million partnership with Vietnam

Author: Steve Creedy Aviation writer
Publication: The Australian (29,Mon 14 Apr 2008)
Edition: 2 - All-round First
Section: Finance
Keywords: Jetstar (15)

QANTAS is to boost its presence in Southeast Asia by establishing a fleet of 30 Jetstar-branded aircraft in Vietnam.

Qantas executives and Vietnamese officials will today unveil an agreement to change the name of Pacific Airlines, Vietnam's second-largest carrier, to Jetstar Pacific.

The joint venture increases Qantas's total investment in the carrier to $50 million, and will also lead to a fleet of 30 leased Airbus A320 aircraft being based in the country by 2014. The move will also increase the Qantas offshoot's Asian profile and means Jetstar-branded planes will fly to 40 destinations in Asia, the Asia-Pacific region, Australia and New Zealand.

The joint venture will initially grow services in Vietnam before expanding internationally from late this year to destinations likely to include Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia and Cambodia.

A Vietnamese website being developed for jetstar.com to expand the brand's penetration among more than 85 million Vietnamese is expected to result in more services between Australia and Vietnam.

Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce said the move would give Jetstar huge distribution in the Vietnam market.

``We were always very strong in Australia but having Pacific Airlines here with the Jetstar name will give us the second most recognised airline brand and that means we can sell more effectively our Australia-direct operations,'' he said in Ho Chi Minh City yesterday.

The Vietnam move is part of a wider strategy to build up the Qantas Group's presence in Asia through a series of partnerships using the Jetstar brand. It already has a stake in Singapore-based Jetstar Asia and hopes ultimately to make similar investments in other countries, linking an intra-Asia network to Jetstar's long-haul and short-haul international operations from Australia.

It is also planning to establish a Southeast Asian hub that will allow it to fly on to southern Europe. The Australian carrier

Continued -- Page 30

From Page 29

has had a team of executives working with Pacific, which is majority-owned by Vietnam's State Capital Investment Corporation, since it bought an 18 per cent stake in the carrier last July for $30 million.

It aims to increase its stake to 30 per cent -- at a $20 million price tag -- the highest investment currently allowed in Vietnam, by 2010. Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said the Vietnamese carrier would help Jetstar become one of the biggest and fastest growing brands in the region. ``Jetstar Pacific will be able to access the expertise and resources in the Qantas Group,'' he said.

Vietnam's domestic market had huge possibilities, with the route between Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi potentially bigger than Melbourne-Sydney, he said.

``There is a growing number of people who want to use air transportation and I think that's a market we certainly will be tapping into,'' he said.

``There's also a huge international tourism market. It's one of the biggest international growth areas, and that's people coming into the country but also travelling around the country.''

The rebranding will lead to the Vietnamese carrier gradually adopting a similar product range to Jetstar in Australia.

Mr Joyce said the aircraft would have similar manuals and operational procedures so the airline could interchange pilots with its Australian counterpart.

The writer travelled to Vietnam courtesy of Jetstar.

[Keg]

Does anyone else see this as particularly significant?

Mr Joyce said the aircraft would have similar manuals and operational procedures so the airline could interchange pilots with its Australian counterpart.

:eek: :suspect: :suspect: :rolleyes: :ugh:

[airtags]

significant or overtly optomistic - either way it's a not a good look.

AJ is hell bent on creating the universal 'one size fits all, world brand' and the QF board keeps stuffing J*'s kangaroo fur lined suitcase with money.

To be fair though the market potential for nth/sth Viet domestic is good, and with the risks associated with China creating its own 'oneworld star alliance', more Asia pacific platforms make sense...................but the concept of interchangable aircraft, drivers and crew is a big picture fantasy that we all (especially the regulators) should discourage or Keg's - 'Bohica' might apply to a lot of slightly higher altitude tornados.

[TMAK]

Although if we think sensibly for just a moment...it is probably so that Oz crews can go there to fly, as they have done with Jetstar Asia in SIN....

No harm with having all the a/c the same, so they can be moved from country to country in times of trouble. I read somewhere that similar set ups in Europe and US may come in the years ahead.

[Metro man]

Where are the pilots for these aircraft going to come from ? Vietnam Airlines, a "relatively" well paying full service airline offering commuting contracts are critically short of drivers.

Another low cost operator Viet Jet are planning on starting up later this year, still deciding on A320 vs B737.

Jetstar Australia not exactly having a huge surplus of drivers at the moment either. Vietnam will be fun for the single men, not so great for the wife and kids.;)

[Wingspar]

Having synergy is a good thing for the business maybe not for the individual.
All depends on the circumstances and you may come out on top. However cost with JQ will be the determining factor.

[HF3000]

Keg, what's the big deal about that statement? Qantas has pilots working there now. I'm sure Jetstar can send some experienced A320 guys up there when the ships start arriving to assist with the transition. More opportunities for Australian pilots surely?

[Keg]

Yes, that may occur in the short term. Whilst there may be 'currently no plans' for the reverse to happen it nevertheless remains as an option on the table- one that mean less opportunities for Australian pilots. :ugh:

[HF3000]

That would remain an issue more relevant to the 457 visa debate. I think it more likely that Australia would have qualified pilots that are needed in Vietnam than vice versa. Which means opportunities for Australian pilots. eg: offer a bunch a experienced A320 pilots a contract in Vietnam for some fun and variety, and in the meantime more promotions and employment in JQ OZ.

Sometimes I get the feeling that everything GD does is automatically interpreted as bad for Australian pilots - it just might not be so in this instance.

Cheers, HF

[Keg]

Not necessarily. If those Vietnamese crew also have Australian licenses- not that hard to achieve in the scheme of things- then there is nothing stopping the pattern starting in Viet Nam and then transiting through Australia for a bunch of days of domestic/International flying.

There are currently no plans for that to occur of course! :rolleyes:

[HF3000]

So, by that rationale, there is nothing to stop Jetconnect crews flying into Australia and doing 12 day trips covering the whole Australian Continent of domestic flying prior to their return to AKL.

Keg, obviously you don't need an Australian licence to fly from Vietnam to Australia. Having an Australian licence is actually irrelevant to the whole issue.

But the concept that a Vietnamese Airline will be able to do domestic OZ sectors, is just mindbogglingly ridiculous!

According to your theory, the Australian Licence holders that work for China Eastern or Emirates could start running little domestic businesses between MEL and SYD during their slips?

Huh? What's your point?

[Keg]

OK, more slowly this time.

You stated that AJ's statement about transferring pilots will create more opportunities for Aussie pilots. I reckon it has the potential to create less opportunities. I also indicated that a statement of 'there are currently no plans to....' means nothing in the scheme of things. Your response was that 457 visa issues would prohibit J* pacific native crew coming to Australia and less opportunities for Aussie pilots.

My point is that the 457 visa thing can be gotten around without too much effort at all. In fact with significantly less effort than is required to get a 457 visa to start off with. All you need to fly a VH registered aircraft is an Aussie license. Aussie licenses aren't that hard to get. It's not outside the realms of possibility that foreign crew- J* pacific for example- start a tour of duty that brings them through Australia to fly a bunch of domestic days. They could do so at pay rates that are considerably less than our rates.

If it happens with shipping, what makes us think that aviation is immune! :suspect:

[HF3000]

Believe me Keg, if GD reckoned he could get away with putting JetConnect pilots and/or aircraft on OZ domestic routes and get away with it, he would be doing it right now. Fact is, the laws actually don't let him do it otherwise he would. If he tried, I'm sure Woodsy would have you all on strike as we speak.

Same would apply to Vietnam (although far more so - because NZ almost has a cross-border agreement, not so with Vietnam)

The sky is not falling!

[Keg]

The sky is not falling!

That should read.....

There are currently no plans for the sky to fall!

:eek: :} :suspect:

[Keg]

This was in todays Australian.

Joyce also believes the new airline will help Jetstar keep its pilots.

Operational procedures and manuals at Jetstar Pacific will be eventually similar to those at the Australian operation, making it easier for staff to switch between the two.

"In a tight market, where people are trying to retain pilots, (giving) the young guys who are coming through the operation the opportunity of keeping their seniority number but moving up (to Vietnam) and working ... and then coming back and working in Australia is a huge potential retention activity for us long term," he says.

I wonder if that means that in the future the J* F/O wanting an upgrade to command will be via J* Pacific? Otherwise I can't see how this could be a means to retaining pilots....unless they intend on paying a ****e load more for J* Pacific pilots to go up there for a bit!

[Icarus53]

J* pacific for example- start a tour of duty that brings them through Australia to fly a bunch of domestic days.

While there is certainly cause for concern here, I believe this kind of employment would not be allowable under industrial relations law. Although there is nothing to stop the company employing pilots from other companies to fly for them, I don't believe they can do so at the expense of work for the existing group of employees.

This particular issue was raised recently over employing EAA pilots on SSA routes and vice versa. As I understand things, a breech occurs when the company employs a separate group to do work that was the primary purpose of the existing pilot group.

Perhaps some AFAP/AIPA types can shed some light on this issue and how it might pertain to Pacific pilots coming in to do work on JQ routes???

[blow.n.gasket]

HF3000Believe me Keg, if GD reckoned he could get away with putting JetConnect pilots and/or aircraft on OZ domestic routes and get away with it, he would be doing it right now. Fact is, the laws actually don't let him do it otherwise he would. If he tried, I'm sure Woodsy would have you all on strike as we speak.

Same would apply to Vietnam (although far more so - because NZ almost has a cross-border agreement, not so with Vietnam)

The sky is not falling!


HF3000 what you allude to here reference JetConnect is possible right now due to a little law change under Howard that went pretty well unnoticed ,it's called the Mutual Recognition Bill, 06/06bd013.htm (http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/BD/2005-06/06bd013.htm) http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/BD/1996-97/97bd070.htm have a look and be afraid ,be very afraid ,the sky might just be about to fall in after all!:uhoh:

After all the Kiwi's don't even have a mandatory 9% super contribution!

I'd say one of the few things presently halting Dixon's campaign is lack of aircraft and certain untested aspects of the Qantas Sale Act.
Once that's all sorted , watch out!