GB Co-pilot dies during plane flight

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Didn't want to sensationalise the thread header, but various Turkish news forums are reporting BA6826 MAN-PFO has diverted into Istanbul with the first officer mortally incapacitated.

http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=25356

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7262380.stm

I hope things are not as bad as reported.

Respect

Stoney

[MarcJF]

If true very sad, seems to be confirmed on airliners.net

Nothing running on Sky News at the moment.

[loaded_mcd]

I have a friend on this flight and can confirm it is for real. And yes, it was PFO bound.
They have been told that it was a 25yo flight attendant, but they don't appear to be being told very much, so this bit may not be true. They are currently en route to a hotel "until further notice".

[manrow]

I am a little confused; why divert to Istanbul?

Unless it is a crew availability issue?

[Hand Solo]

Perhaps because it's the nearest big airfield where they have decent medical facilities. For pitys sake, do you think the skipper will be thinking about crew availability issues when his FOs just died?

[747-436]

If this is true then condolances to the FO and GB.

I would caution against reading too much in to this before anything official comes out. There was something on here a few years ago about a pilot passing away mid flight on another (Former) BA franchise carrier, and it turned out that nothing like that happened at all.

[flyingman-of-kent]

A quick search on the web finds the following:

DATE/SITE: 18 Sept. Gatwick, UK
AIRCRAFT & REGN: A320 of GB Airways
CIRCUMSTANCES: F/O became incapacitated and captain called a Mayday for priority
DEATH & INJURY: 1 fatal
PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS2 Imagery at www.iasa.com.au/260905.htm: (http://www.iasa.com.au/260905.htm:) F/O believed to
have
passed away before landing

I am not sure which year this was and cant find the article it refers to, but this may be the previous incident reported above?

[beamender99]

I am not sure which year this was and cant find the article it refers to, but this may be the previous incident reported above?

Air Safety Week (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT), Sept 26, 2005 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_2005_Sept_26)

[flyingman-of-kent]

Thanks, that is where I found the info I posted.

I referred to this when saying I couldn't find the article "PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS2 Imagery at www.iasa.com.au/260905.htm" (http://www.iasa.com.au/260905.htm:)

[beamender99]

Deano777 Has someone got a link in ENLGISH? :ugh:


londonmet English link anyone?


How about using the link supplied then click on the word ENGLISH next to TURKCE

(I cannot see any report of the event.)

There is however a video clip "Scary scene at Redbull Airrace Competition between Utah and Arizona" that may be of interest.

[hellsbrink]

If this is true then condolances to the FO and GB.


Just been reported on BBC Breakfast News

RIP

[rebellion]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7262380.stm

RIP

[kissmecaptain]

Sounds like the Captain made a very good decision diverting to Istanbul with this medical emergency. This is an airfield recommended by medilink as it has plenty of hospitals and specialist doctors available.

Very sad news, my thoughts are with his family friends and colleagues.

[peterowensfanclub]

What was the cause of death?

[Andy Rylance]

Where is Mr Shoesmith when you need him?

What the **** do the BBC think they are going to "learn" or "publish" by asking this?

Were you a passenger on the plane? Do you know anyone who was? If you have any information you would like to share with the BBC you can do so using the form below.

[CX152]

The telegraph has posted a picture of Mr. Warren. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/25/npilot125.xml


This is apalling, how could they be so disrespectful? RIP

[BYALPHAINDIA]

The BBC Entourage did not know of this story until late morning, I checked their site last night & this morning and there was nothing said.

Huh, Try the SUN they are 'jumbling' on about the TOM 733 from MAN - RAK that had to Div to LTN to change a 'light bulb':rolleyes:

The pax are said to be furious, That only a trivial Wing flap warning light had to be changed.

Obviously the said PAX didn't think it was serious enough to warrant a u - turn to LTN:ugh:

Do these newspapers think they are printing 'comics' instead:*

Ill keep taking the tablets.:zzz:

[lazy george]

This is very sad indeed. Sounds like all the crew did an exellent job in trying to save him.
Can i just ask 1 question . How are pilots trained to cope with the other pilot incapacitated. Does he cope with the high workload of landing the aircraft on his own or does a member of the cabin crew take place to help shed the load?

My thoughts go to his friends and family

[overstress]

Yes, exactly, a cabin crew member can come in to assist with reading checklists, but most people I know are happy to do it by themselves. An autoland is recommended usually if the Capt has been incapacitated.

My thoughts go out to F/O Warren's family. His wife and two boys must be devastated. It was far too soon to make the final departure.

[Orographic]

possibly a little too soon, and not to belittle the grief of his family etc, but ...


what a way to go ! ( doing what you love)


( poor taste? )

[Lauderdale]

OroGraphic - I doubt that his family agree with your sentiments........

[tocamak]

what a way to go ! ( doing what you love)


( poor taste? )

Yes, very bad taste indeed.

[Roy Bouchier]

The handling problem under these circumstances probably does warrant some training which, as far as I recall, was never addressed in any sim session.
25 years ago I was a first officer with only about 50 hours on type when the captain keeled over. He was a hefty and opinionated old timer and steadfastly refused to wear his shoulder harness en route.
By great good fortune, the senior FA happened to be standing on the flight deck and was able to pull him back clear of the yoke (she was a well built girl and I often theorised that it was her proximity that caused him to collapse!).
We assumed he had had a heart attack.
With about 30 minutes to run I could see no suitable airport with any appropriate facilities for a diversion so we continued and had the ambulance and crew standing by.
The aircraft was not an especially complex one but I do remember being as busy as a one-armed paper hanger as we descended into a busy terminal area. A bit of practice here might have come in handy as most of my flying previously had been with two and three man crews.
Happily, the heart attack proved to have been relatively minor and he recovered.
My deepest sympathies go out to Mike Warren's family - and also to his captain for whom it must have been a deeply upsetting experience.

[Orographic]

I doubt that his family agree with your sentiments........

I did attempt to make allowances for this fact, and yes I agree that the family's quite understandable grief should not be belittled.

What I was trying to do, and obviously failed at, was to point out that, while this is a strongly negative event, life goes on. There is a small bright(er) point, in the metaphorical sea of gloom of this event.

Until the medical people have done their thing, we cannot learn from this occurrence, as we don't know what caused it, we can speculate, certainly, but none of us can speak from a position of authority on the issue.

While I would like to apologize for any offense my remarks caused the family and friends of this man, I see no point in placating a corpse, and rather a lot more in attempting to celebrate the life of the man that was. This was what, in my own bumbling way, what I was trying to achieve. To acknowledge the life, rather than the death, of a man, I personally never knew, but suspect that I wish I had

I will now bow out of this conversation

[Wanabee,Gunnabee,Am]

My airline, (the one that just bought his) does indeed do incapacitation training, certainly for F/Os. In fact my last time in the sim I had an incapacitation just after flaps up and the trainer then failed an engine, in CAT III conditions as well, so a single pilot, single engine, cat III autoland from the right seat.

No problem though as the training here is excellent.

My condolences go to his family, friends and colleagues, especially the ones on the flight with him. A very traumatic time for them as well.

An expression immediately springs to mind,

"There, but for the grace of God, go I".

A sad day.

[excrab]

Lazy George,

Just to answer your question from a more recent perspective than 25 years ago, at the airlines I have flown for crews are given initial and recurrent training in incapacitation in the simulator. At two of them we also carried out "simulated" incapacitation (from the cruise to the end of the landing run) during line training - whilst not all airlines do the latter at least it gives you the confidence of knowing that you can actually get it back on the ground on your own if needs be, albeit without a medical emergency going on in the seat next to you.

[Flightsimman]

No I don't think it's poor taste at all, but the family do deserve respect.

If you had a choice of passing away in a car accident, dreaded illness, or doing something that you dearly love, you would choose the latter every time.

May he rest in peace and may he already be spreading his wings in the wide blue yonder!

[69flight]

Quote:
"A bit of practice here might have come in handy as most of my flying previously had been with two and three man crews."

In every type conversion I've done in the last 15 years there was one simulator detail dealing with pilot's incapacitation. Both pilots had to demonstrate a landing with the other pilot "failed". But still, as with every scenario you go through in the sim, everyone hopes it will never happen in real life.

[Roy Bouchier]

69 Flight. To their credit, the company did subsequently introduce incapacitation training but more importantly, insistence on the wearing of full harness en route.
It's now 15 years since I retired and CRM has become a much more important feature of sim training I suspect.

[A330AV8R]

Hi lazy


If the other guy / gal pops it in flight such as this very tragic incident (and I hope it never happens again ) then you make sure the person is strapped in a reclined position in his seat after all effots have been made to revive him / her declare a mayday and land asap .

:E

[rjay259]

For the company I am in we had to practice from ToD to landing a simulated one man crew. For any incapacitation we always call a Mayday.

I hope that his family try to understand that he will always be watching them and protecting them.
RIP.

259

[rjay259]

For the company I am in we had to practice from ToD to landing a simulated one man crew. For any incapacitation we always call a Mayday.

I hope that his family try to understand that he will always be watching them and protecting them.
RIP.

259

[amos2]

"I hope that his family try to understand that he will always be watching them and protecting them."
RIP.

259

So, please tell us, 259...

how will he do this? :confused:

[hellsbrink]

everyone has their own beliefs, Amos.

[PAXboy]

what a way to go ! ( doing what you love)
( poor taste? )
Yes, very bad taste indeed.
No, just slightly premature. In time, his family will be pleased for him that it was fast and that he was doing what he loved - but not just yet.

I should mention that I do highly specialist work with bereaved people.

[Gunman returns]

God Bless.

I was horrified to see a photo in the Singapore Straits times of the aircraft just after it had pulled onto the stand obviously focused on the flight deck. We criticise the Brit press but thankfully they would never publish a pic like that.

Prayers and thoughts to the family

Andy

[PAXboy]

Gunman returnsWe criticise the Brit press but thankfully they would never publish a pic like that.

Where have you been? That's exactly the kind of pic they want. They will always 'publish and be dammed'.

[armchairpilot94116]

R.I.P to the F/O. Seems quite young to die this way.

Apparently not so totally uncommon, a pilot dying enroute. Perhaps more sim training is needed taking in consideration such an event.

Continental pilot dies:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245318,00.html

=================


25 Jul Denpasar Bali A330-300 of Garuda Flt 722 Captain died of a heart attack during takeoff. The F/O aborted safely 1 fatal Bali to Adelaide South Australia


http://info.accessintel.com/cgi/catalog/sample?ASW


=====================================

CAL Captain dies :
http://www.asc.gov.tw/asc_en/author_list_2.asp?show_type=11&show_sub=29&pre_no=153


NO doubt there are other incidents as well .

[O'Neill No6]

I too saw the awful photograph in The Singapore Straits Times of this poor man following the diversion to Istanbul. I was flying at the time in the very region that this tragedy occured. I must admit I welled up with emotion on seeing the image and taking in what I was seeing! Then I felt revulsion that someone had made the decision to put this on the first page to sell more newspapers. Respect for human life is not as high a priority there in Singapore it would seem.

I wonder whether the Singaporean people taking in the picture, and the associated report in The Straits Times realise that their national airline give very little training in simulated incapacitation. Almost nothing, and in my opinion and experience the airline's simulator training is generally lacking in imagination.

I vaguely knew this man (in the RAF) and my thoughts are with his family and friends and colleagues, you must be devastated. I hope you don't ever have to see that image.

O'Neill 6

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Agreed O'Neill NO6, You would have thought the 'Singaporians' would have used some respect to Mr warren.:sad:

They may be the NO1 Airline, But it could even happen on an SIA flight - no one is immune from death.:=

[BYALPHAINDIA]

I remember a BY 757 Captain died from Heart Failure on landing at AGP many years ago.

R I P.

[Lost in Saigon]

On Saturday March 01 2008, a national Canadian newspaper "The Globe and Mail" ran a photo on page F2 with the caption:

"IMAGES OF THE WORLD THIS WEEK: DEATH AT 32,000 FEET"

The photo was in very bad taste and I am appalled that a such a prominent newspaper could stoop so low.

Shame.....

[Tee Emm]

In fact my last time in the sim I had an incapacitation just after flaps up and the trainer then failed an engine, in CAT III conditions as well, so a single pilot, single engine, cat III autoland from the right seat

The trainer should be immediately removed from training and given the boot. That sort of ridiculous combination of events is just why many pilots loathe simulators.

[BusyB]

TM,
He may well be demonstrating to someone the importance of using automatics. As long as it is training and not checking I imagine it could be extremely useful.:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0183]

I'm sorry to hear the sad news. Thoughts with his family, friends, and colleagues.

For those who are interested, it's a JAR obligation to practice.

Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 1.450

(4) Incapacitation procedures appropriate to Low Visibility Take-offs and Category II and III operations shall be practised.

Appendix 1 to JAR–OPS 1.965
Recurrent training and checking – Pilots

(a) Recurrent Training – Recurrent training
shall comprise:
(1) Ground and refresher training
(i) The ground and refresher training programme shall include:
.... (B) Operational procedures and requirements including ground
de-/anti-icing and pilot incapacitation (see AMC to Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS
1.965)

Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 1.1010
Conversion and Differences training
(g) Pilot incapacitation. An operator shall
ensure that, unless the minimum flight crew is more
than two, each cabin crew member is trained in the
procedure for flight crew member incapacitation and
shall operate the seat and harness mechanisms.
Training in the use of flight crew members’ oxygen
system and use of the flight crew members’ check
lists, where required by the operator’s SOP’s, shall
be conducted by a practical demonstration.

..and so it goes on.