Air Canada flying for Qantas

[EPIRB]

Guys, if you are considering coming out to fly on the Qantas contract, be aware you are taking jobs of Australians whilst flying for Qantas. According to your union this has been approved by the Ansett Pilots Association. This is not so. At the moment, there are nearly 800 pilots stood down without pay in Australia, many endorsed on the 767. There are also 767's on the ground here too. There has already been one suicide over the job losses. It is an extremely emotive issue down here and Qantas will be winning no friends if they bring in foreign aircraft and crews when Australian ones are available.

[WalterMitty]

To our dear Canadian friends, We at Ansett certainly appreciated your help during Easter
at a difficult time for our airline. Since then things have gone from bad to worse. If you fly here now you may assist Qantas in achieving their aim of destroying us completely. Does it not seem strange that an Australian airline seeks to base you in New Zealand rather than Australia? It is so they can avoid Australian laws and the publicly stated desires of our Prime Minister that foreign aircraft and crew will not be allowed into Australia while Australians are able to do the work! Please consider this carefully and realise you do not have the willingness of Ansett pilots, the imprimatur of our union nor the Australian people.

[Willie Everlearn]

Good gawd. Here we go again.
More whinging from down under.

It seems to me that Ansett, through it's leasing division, not so many months ago were not only recruiting pilots (both foreign and national) but wet leasing the lot out to 'foreign' carriers. For some reason...would that not be the same thing as wet leasing from Air Canada, only in the reverse???

Don't look for sympathy here, mate.
Ever try to get a job in the south pacific???
Why is it that only Australian and New Zealand licences are acceptable???
I think you guys have your markets covered. Wouldn't you?
As for Air Canada's wet leases downunder...
Ansett can do squat with the liquidators hovering over their assets right now. Qantas AND Ansett aren't going to get the use of or access to 'short term leases' (3 months. too expensive.) in the present economic reality. Not just in Oz, but the world.
The cheapest and most cost effective way for Air New Zealand, Qantas, Ansett, or any other carrier down there for that matter, to get the present capacity problem solved (don't airlines also try to meet customer demand at some point??? Especially when the dollars have practically stopped flowing in) is to Wet Lease as a cost effective way to stave off a visit from the Grim Reaper?
This is basic economics when you've been in the airline industry for a fews years.
We gotta eat to. If I gotta fly to feed the family and keep my job, I fly the trips I'm offered every month and hope we don't go bust in the process.
For those who have lost their jobs I am truly sorry and wish them well. But, the reality is, Canadian pilots aren't taking your jobs.
Grow up!!! :rolleyes:

[WalterMitty]

I didn't know Qantas was facing the grim reaper.

[fugitive]

Good lord,I almost fell off my perch when I read the post from EPIRB.
If I recall,the AFAP posted the same notice worldwide to all aircrew unions;dont come down here as this is an industrial dispute.They came in their droves.Many came from the Wardair company.
I remember speaking to a Canadian Capt in Korean Air(one with a P51 logbook) no names mentioned and he informed me in no uncertain terms,you people resigned so what are you complaining about.
EIRB is probably one of the Canuks.What a scenario,scabbing on a scab.It really is deja vu.
There is certainly no honour amongst thieves. ;)

[Willie Everlearn]

To WalterMitty

There are no Air Canada pilots based in New Zealand OR Australia.
There are no Canadian pilots 'taking Ansett pilots jobs' or Air New Zealand pilots jobs, or Qantas pilots jobs...
Ansett, for all intents and purposes, is in liquidation. It is facing the grim reaper and I can only pray the good folks at Ansett can stave him off. That they return to their former stature.
As for Canadian pilots based in New Zealand during a 'dispute' is absolutely silly.
One more thing...
if Qantas doesn't get it's house in order, they too shall meet the Grim Reaper.
Ask the good folks at Swissair.
Pan Am.
Eastern.
Canadian.
Philippine Airlines.
Compass.
TAA.
Ansett.

[pgurnell]

To the Ansett Crews.

Gentlemen and Ladies:

I was part of the Air Canada (Canadian) contingent that was privaledged to have the opportunity to help out during this springs 767 fleet grounding. We were treated very well (and had our asses worked off) by our hosts. I am attempting to dissuade as many 767 crewmembers as possible from bidding positions that would jeapordize the reciever from restructuring and restarting Ansett. I discussed the situation with the VP Flt. Ops today who mentioned the fact that your association had ok'd our crews but I suggest that ACPA, which is a uniquely self serving organization, be buried in paper, or in this case, email testimonials as to why your members feel that this action is improper. The link is http://www.acpa.ca/contactus.htm.

Although self serving, they also advertise as grassroots and they should respond to a mass mailing.

Good luck.

F/O Peter Gurnell

Hello to Rob Guerrera and Len.

[innuendo]

Peter,
Perhaps the post in ACPA forum by President Don Johnstone on the wet lease may clear up some of the objections. In essence he says that the local union excecutive down under were not opposed to the wet lease program.
At least that is the way I read him.

[Taildragger67]

Under Australian law, the directors of Qantas have a duty to their shareholders to act in the best interests of the shareholders. So if they can lease aircraft which they can operate at a profit, then so be it - and I'm sure that if this meant getting them from Ansett, they would - and in that case the easiest pool of pilots would be Ansett pilots. However, maybe the cheapest source of aircraft is somewhere else (eg. Canada) - so infulfilling their legal obligation to shareholders, Qantas directors may have to take those aircraft over others more locally available. I note that few eyebrows were raised when AC aircraft flew in Spring. Possibly, AWAS, SALE and the other lessors have stipulated conditions on sub-leases that QF can't take the AN aircraft (remembering that AN owns/owned hardly any of its fleet) - whilst such conditions may not attach to AC aircraft. Maybe AC are pricing their aircraft so cheaply as they're happy to get anything return on the assets, the alternative being to park a bunch of airframes they inherited from Canadien which no longer really fit into their Airbus-centred fleet plans.
Sorry, all you AN guys, but commercial factors bigger than just organised action are at work here, and frankly if I was a QF director, I'd be doing my best to stay out of jail (literally) by getting the best deal I could, even if that meant hunting offshore.

[Willie Everlearn]

Taildragger 67
...and others who are so inclined.

Astute observation mate.
Most people flying for the airlines today haven't learnt from the past, have they? What's important to ones airline isn't who has the right to be working there and how much he/she is to be paid for doing so...
it's the return on investment for the shareholder and the profit made resulting in dividends. Full stop. Basic economics, isn't it? Well, for some at least.
The rubbish cast over 'wet leasing' and other situations which place ones employment in peril are certainly understandable. If I, for one, could wave a magic wand and have everything at Ansett (and at other fine airlines like Pan AM, Eastern, the lot) I'd return them to their former selves, I'd be delighted to do so as would many others in this great profession. However, none of us has that ability and I'm afraid as regretable as it is...Ansett is bust.
If Qantas we're noble enough to 'wet lease' from Ansett it would seem unlikely as the creditors likely have all assets firmly in hand and intend not to incur further debt.
I wish everyone at Ansett the very best and for what it's worth, others are about to follow.

:eek:

[flyguy93]

would the other be any canadian based company??or let me rephrase that, would it be a cnadian company period!!!!. we all fend for our jobs the more information we have the better we are prepared!!!. for all those concerned the industry is a bust.... i sincerely request some feed back

[idleopdes]

I have been attempting to educate myself before accepting a posting to NZ to fly for QF on this 767 wetlease. I had always wanted to have a look at this corner of the globe and this seemed like a good opportunity.... however it seems like this would be a somewhat controversial assignment. Then I read F/O Gurnell's note with some interest as he had been involved last Easter when a/c were grounded.
However his remark...


null "I discussed the situation with the VP Flt. Ops today who mentioned the fact that your association had ok'd our crews but I suggest that ACPA, which is a uniquely self serving organization, be buried in paper"

has convinced me that I should go ahead and take the assignment. If, as he states, he is trying to convince as many AC pilots as possible to stay home, he hasn't helped his cause by critisizing ACPA at this particularly difficult time for this industry as a whole. Your true Blue colours are showing. ACPA stood up for the AC pilot group just as ALPA did for the CAIL pilots.
It would also seem that CAIL was treated better in this part of the world than Ansett was down under....

Dave Main
767, YYZ