"Make Your Present Heading A Radar Heading"

[FireFoxDown]

Hi All,

Just a curious pilot wondering what is the significance of the above? Often over the UK we are told the above phrase when inbound to a point but then not given any headings that would differ from our original track.

Thanks in advance! :)

[PPRuNe Radar]

It's just very poor RT phraseology on the part of the controller.

The standard phrases to be used when vectoring are found in the UK Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1.

They are:

Continue present heading.

Continue present heading and report that heading.

Continue heading (three digits).

Turn left/right heading (three digits).

Turn left/right (number) degrees and report heading.

Fly heading (three digits).

Stop turn heading (three digits).

Stop turn now.

Continue turn heading (three digits).

Leave (significant point) heading (three digits).

Resume own navigation for (significant point). Position is (distance) miles N/E/S/W of (reporting point).

Resume own navigation for (significant point) magnetic track (three digits) degrees, distance (number) miles.

Magnetic track to (significant point) is (three digits) degrees distance (number) miles.

[Avman]

FFD to answer your question it's old fashioned phraseology which is used to ensure that you lock on to your heading and don't deviate from it until released to resume your own navigation again. As mentioned above it doesn't comply with current R/T standards, however, it once did (maybe not in the UK though). Some old habits die hard. I remember when airways were changed from Green/Red/Amber/Blue to Golf/Romeo/Alpha/Bravo etc., how I like so many continued to use the old terms. Phraseology standards tend to change over the years and younger ATCOs and indeed pilots may not be aware of "historical" terms.

[FireFoxDown]

Hi All,

Many thanks for your replies. Indeed Ive heard many variations on it, the majority are the standard phrases PPRuNe Radar has mentioned.

AVman thanks for the explanation, though Ive frequently been told , once inbound to a beacon or point, hundreds of miles away, to maintain the heading and then only later to be told "Own nav direct AAA".

Just curious, thanks again for all the replies! :ok:

[Phantom99]

It usually comes down to separation. Although some airways are procedurally separated (albeit radar monitored) many aren't, so even though if you all maintained the flight plan route there would be no loss, we can't take that chance, so often have to assign hdgs - I usually don't need to know what they are, just that you stay on them.

Other examples include: being close to the edge of a sector and an adjacent sector has traffic close to their edge too - you will never hear the aircraft on frequency but we still need to ensure separation;

The next controller ask us to lock you on your heading to ensure you stream behind other traffic that could be a hundred miles away at that time, and coming from a completely different direction;

HTH

[Avman]

FFD, yes, you can be locked on to a heading for several hundred miles. When ATC see that two aircraft at the same FL will cross with sufficient seperation, but that this seperation could be compromised should one or the other a/c make even a slight heading adjustment, those a/c will be locked onto a so-called radar heading. Once they have crossed they will be instructed to resume own nav either to the original fix they were navigating to, or direct to another fix further down the route. It is not wise to allow two aircraft to cross with adequate but relatively close horizontal seperation when they are both flying "own nav".

[NorthSouth]

This is another old chestnut. And I still haven't heard what seems to me to be an adequate explanation. The difference is not between 'radar heading' and 'own nav'. It's between 'radar heading' and just plain 'heading'. If a controller tells you when you're under radar control in controlled airspace, 'turn left heading 240 degrees', you don't interpret that to mean "ah but he didn't say RADAR heading so he won't mind if I wander around a bit between 235 and 245".

And if the heading's been assigned for the guys in the next sector, surely the controller just says "continue on the heading and contact Next Guy on xxx.yy"?

NS:confused:

[Phantom99]

his is another old chestnut. And I still haven't heard what seems to me to be an adequate explanation. The difference is not between 'radar heading' and 'own nav'. It's between 'radar heading' and just plain 'heading'.

As was explained above, the term "radar heading" is not approved phraseology - there is no difference - maybe a throwback to the early use of RADAR in en-route copntrolling: procedural with RADAR assistance when required.

And if the heading's been assigned for the guys in the next sector, surely the controller just says "continue on the heading and contact Next Guy on xxx.yy"?

Not if I assign the heading and there are still a hundred miles until the end of my sector.

[OMRK]

Also (at least before I emmigrated) in certain parts of Europe there is a requirement of 10NM separation for aircrafts on own navigation, where as aircrafts that are being radar vectored only need 5NM separation.
Therefore by locking an aircraft on to 'present heading' you reduce the required separation minima, and you do not need to turn either of the aircrafts involved to maintain required separation.

[Hold West]

Worth mentioning is that converting the heading you are flying to maintain a procedural track to a radar vector may allow me to take you lower than I can if you stay on the procedure.

Example: on this procedure (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0802/00762CAMPS.PDF), the MEAs on the legs inbound to the localizer are 5000 and 7000 feet - yet my MVAs I can use on vectors are as low as 3,000.
I want to get aircraft down for a visual or for the ILS approach, so I'll say to aircraft checking in "fly present heading (taking them off the procedure and negating the requirement to honor the MEA), descend and maintain 3,000 (the MVA).

It's a bit of a paper chase, but one reason it's done.

[meinhk]

FFD,It is simply another example of very poor r/t phraseology, typically verbose.All was needed was ''heading'', not ''radar heading.''

[Sobelena]

meinhk, it may have been wiser to read the previous posts before posting your contribution? :confused:

[Track Coastal]

PPRuNe Radar answered the question to a tee. Can we talk about more money now?

[FireFoxDown]

Many thanks for all of you taking the time to respond - things are a bit clearer now! :)

One more quick related question - if told to "Maintain Present Heading" there is no need to report what that heading actually is(unless instructed to do so), is that correct?

[Track Coastal]

In a word yes.

Continue present heading. OR

Continue present heading and report that heading.

[Snakes on a Plane]

Don't really agree with that last post. If the controller wants to know the heading, he will ask you to report it. If he wants you on a specific (i.e. parallel or reciprocal) heading, then he will simply tell you to FLY that heading.
There's nothing worse when you're busy than a pilot responding with "Continue present heading, err, umm, one ermmm six five degrees" when you never asked for the heading in the first place!

Hence why there's two different bits of phraseology.

[FireFoxDown]

There's nothing worse when you're busy than a pilot responding with "Continue present heading, err, umm, one ermmm six five degrees" when you never asked for the heading in the first place!


That's what I wanted to clarify - many thanks! :ok:

[GunkyTom]

I regularly use 'continue present heading' without knowing or caring what it is. I just don't want the a/c to deviate from its' current 'track' for any reason. If I think I am going to have to alter that heading a little then it is important to know what it is, but any significant change can be applied without any prior knowledge other than a good eye. You do the same when you take an a/c off 'own nav' and give it a heading

[lobby]

"I just don't want the a/c to deviate from its' current 'track' for any reason."

Locking an A/C on a heading doesn't guarantee it's track will not change.

[Mister Geezer]

Locking an A/C on a heading doesn't guarantee it's track will not change.

I think we are going round in circles here! Remember that vectoring using radar dates back to an era before aircraft are as modern as they are today.

I am sure many of us nowadays if requested could fly a specific track just as accurately as we fly a heading and that would obviously negate any change in wind speed or direction over a distance if locked on a heading. However if we were to suddenly use tracks instead of headings, the ATC system would need to be overhauled!

[GunkyTom]

"I just don't want the a/c to deviate from its' current 'track' for any reason."

By Lobby
"Locking an A/C on a heading doesn't guarantee it's track will not change."

Ok, if we are being pedantic, I agree with the above but the direction of travel is dictated by the controller not the pilot. The A/C shouldn't turn unexpectedly to pick up a radial or wander off to look at something interesting as they frequently do here. If there is no reason to give a heading and the a/c is pointing roughly where I want it to, then it can continue own nav until I instruct it otherwise. The point is 'continue present heading' and 'Turn L/R heading' etc achieve the same thing, the a/c is under My control .

[Hold West]

Vercingetorix -

I don't ask OR want them to report it because I don't care. If I'm going to parallel traffic or cut along the edge of some airspace I will assign a specific heading. I know +/- a few degrees what heading they're on anyway just from looking at the scope.

[Hotel Tango]

:hmm: I see this has turned into a "I'm a better controller than you are" thread!

Kids :rolleyes:

[GunkyTom]

#27 By Hotel Tango
:hmm: I see this has turned into a "I'm a better controller than you are" thread!

Kids :rolleyes:

We must be reading different posts.I haven't read this as a willy waving contest. There is no point as there will always be someone with a bigger one than yours!!! I understand the previous posts to be trying to explain why sometimes it is important to know what heading an a/c is on or that it will stay on a heading (regardless of what it is) or when it can continue own nav, which is what the original poster requested.

[ImnotanERIC]

gunky tom:

you will not find many bigger than mine. it's massive. wave wave wave, honk honk

[novation]

Vercingetorix

The phrase would be "continue present heading" as already stated, the a/c might already be on a track that provides 6/7 miles lateral seperation but a heading would be needed to ensure it. You wouldn't need to know the heading just as long as the a/c was locked on. Ie by continue present heading.

[a330flyer]

Make Your Present Heading A Radar Heading

this makes complete sense in exactly 1 case:
imagine the pilot is avoiding CBs.
The controller approved "avoidance to the left/right approved" although there is conflicting traffic somewhere in the area.

Once the controller sees the avoidance heading of the pilot, he re-analyizes the potential conflict and finds out that it will be best that the aircraft avoiding CBs stays on its present, self-chosen heading.
Because the present heading of the aircraft wasn't assigned by the controller but picked up freely by the pilot, the only way to clarify the responsibilities and to prevent the pilot from altering his avoidance heading again is by transmitting:

"continue present heading as radar heading", cause avoiding CBs is legally considered "own navigation" of a pilot.

Hope it all makes a bit of sense! :ok:

[av8boy]

the only way to clarify the responsibilities and to prevent the pilot from altering his avoidance heading again is by transmitting:

"continue present heading as radar heading", cause avoiding CBs is legally considered "own navigation" of a pilot.


"Fly present heading vector for traffic" does it nicely with approved phraseology from the book ("the book" in the US being the FAA's 7110.65) for me. Now the aircraft is on an assigined heading.

Dave

[a330flyer]

agree with you av8boy. That one does it nicely too, though "vector for traffic" isn't exactly ICAO standard phraseology either...:}:}:}

[Bill_Dodsworth]

I frequently get asked to continue present heading when in a turn with 30 degrees of bank.
What would you chaps like me to do?

[anotherthing]

Bill,

It can be down to poor technique or lack of understanding where the SID (for example) stipulates a turn that results in people asking you to 'continue present heading' when you are, in fact, in the turn.

Another reason is because radar is displaying an historic picture and not an up-to-date one, controllers sometimes try to issue the instruction before you commence the turn but miss it by a few seconds.

Either way, the best response from you would be something along the lines of "ABC123 has just commenced a turn, what heading would you like?".

If you can get yourself a visit to TC (or AC) at Swanwick, you might find it worthwhile - and I'm sure the controllers would be happy to hear from you what you consider good and bad technique :ok:

[Lurking123]

Radio failures. PANS Doc 4444/RAC (1996)

If IFR-IMC under radar maintain the last assigned speed and level, or minimum flight altitude if higher, for a period of seven minutes following: setting 7600/failure to report position/reaching last assigned level, whichever is the later then proceed iaw filed FPL

If IFR-IMC when being radar vectored or having been directed by ATC to proceed offset using RNAV without a specified limit, proceed in the most direct manner possible to join current FPL route no later than the next significant point, taking into account the applicable minimum flight altitude.

So, it seems to me that the difference between a radar heading and a 'non' radar heading may be 7 minutes.