Older vs Newer A320

[sudden Winds]

Hi folks,

Does anyone know what the main differences between the older 320 models (s/n400) and the newer (s/n1900) are? Are there any fuel consumption improvements? Are there any FMGC big differences?
I am all eyes.
Thnank you and Regards,
SW.

[Dream Land]

Different MCDU's, can only depress one PB at a time on the FCU, CRT's replaced with LCD's, no more LAF, hinge for the fuel panel on the front now, new improved RAT. I'm sure I missed a few.

[Fly Ginger]

also abscu, alt brakes and n/w steering on green hyd - now going to look that up to make sure!!

[Office Pest]

Actually I believe the ALT Brakes and NWS are on the yellow system.

Best Regards

OP

[Springer1]

Cockpit noise level which is extremely high on our '89 models.

[Chris Scott]

Quote from sudden Winds:
Does anyone know what the main differences between the older 320 models (s/n400).... [Unquote]

Had a double-take on this. Most of our MSNs were 1 or 2 digits.
And they said it would never sell...

Changing to Yellow for NWS sounds a strange idea, Office Pest. The Yellow is surely too busy already to take the whole L/G from Green, so are you saying that the NWS could use a different System from the L/G itself?

Dream Land, is the "new improved RAT" in the same location, and can it still stall if the aeroplane is in sideslip with the L/G down?

[Office Pest]

That is indeed the case on our newer 319's the NWS is on the Yellow system however the gear retraction remains on the Green.

OP

[BRAKES HOT]

some of the earlier one will be pre-CPIPS too (basically the way FMA's are presented / FCU differences)

can tell which is an earlier 320 by the static ports - new ones are square and old ones are round

[Right Way Up]

Medium autobrake logic vastly improved.

[chin]

the first about 34 Modells have had no Winglets.

[Chris Scott]

Winglets came with the dash-200. There were very few -100s, probably no more than 15 - 20. [We had 5 of them.] By the end of 1988, no more were being delivered.

[finncapt]

Ah Chris - What do you do for wallpaper now you can't save the swords!!!

[Tail-take-off]

Dream Land, is the "new improved RAT" in the same location, and can it still stall if the aeroplane is in sideslip with the L/G down?

No it doesn't stall & you don't have those yellow collared circuit breakers to pull when on Battery power onnly.

[0-8]

Probably the biggest difference you will notice on a day to day basis is FMS1 on the older aircraft and FMS2 on the newer aircraft.

FMS2 has many improvements. It's much easier entering in the initial route as you just have to enter the airways and it will figure out the waypoints.

The way the system works out the optimum level is much improved as you can enter in a range of cruise winds for various levels instead of just a single level.

Another nice improvement, is that you can go direct to a waypoint on a specific radial. Particularly useful if you a doing a visual approach from a fair distance out, as you can use it to draw an extended centerline.

The bigger LCD screens are much nicer to work with than the old CRT ones. And the flight deck noise is considerably reduced in newer aircraft.

Older A/C have a cluster of separate 'clockwork' standby instruments while the newer ones have a single PFD style standby instrument.

In the older aircraft the RAT stalls at 140kts and disconnects with gear down leaving you on battery power only (!)

[Dream Land]

No it doesn't stall & you don't have those yellow collared circuit breakers to pull when on Battery power onnly. By Tail-Take-Off Yes, very good point.

[Chris Scott]

Quote from finncapt:
Ah Chris - What do you do for wallpaper now you can't save the swords!!! [Unquote]
Huh... Have I been rumbled? [How many forests did we destroy?] ;)

Quote from Tail-take-off (re new RAT):
No it doesn't stall & you don't have those yellow collared circuit breakers to pull when on Battery power only.
[Unquote]
That problem necessitated a major redesign of the Electrical System, and FBW-degradation logic, while we and AF were on the first A320 conversion courses at Toulouse in Jan 1988. Does the new RAT design enable:
1) RAT to provide reliable hydraulic and electrical power until touchdown?
2) Alternate Law to continue after L/G extension?

And is it still located in the L/H belly-fairing, behind and ouboard of the No. 1 Pack?

[Cardinal]

ISIS LCD displays display ISA deviation.

Very new (last few months) aircraft have the CFM Tech Insertion single-annular-combustor, and redesigned fuel vents.

[mutt]

How many of you are using Thales FMS2's? Are they an improvement over the Honeywell system?


Mutt

[DesiPilot]

1) Auto brakes MAX inhibited in flight.
2) Parking brake ON in flight generates a Master Caution.
3) OEB reminders (if equipped).

[Fly Ginger]

re post 3, engage brain before opening mouth!!

[Tail-take-off]

Chris

In answer to your questions-

Does the new RAT design enable:
1) RAT to provide reliable hydraulic and electrical power until touchdown?

From FCOM 1 for sn 934:

When the landing gear is down, the emergency generator is no longer powered, and the emergency generation network is automatically transferred to the batteries and the static inverter, and the system automatically sheds the AC SHED ESS and DC SHED ESS buses.


& for sn 2098 there is no referance to gear down but this statement replaces it:

If the RAT stalls, or if the aircraft is on the ground with a speed below 100 knots, the emergency generator has nothing to drive it. The emergency generation network automatically transfers to the batteries and static inverter, and the system automatically sheds the AC SHED ESS and DC SHED ESS buses.


In answer to your second question-
Does the new RAT design enable:
2) Alternate Law to continue after L/G extension?

No, they are all direct law with the gear down. I imagine Airbus would have recertify the aircraft to enable this. I beleive that the A330 will land in alternate law.

FCOM 3 makes referance to the fact that on the older aircraft the RAT stalls at 140 kts but it is 125 kts except in the flare for the newer ones. Perhaps this is a clue as to why it is still direct law for landing.

As an aside the terms older & newer are perhaps a bit misleading. The new style RAT was incorporated into the A321 from the beginning whereas Airbus continued to produce the 320 with the old RAT. A couple of the 321s that I fly have the new RAT despite being older than our 320s with the old style.

[Cardinal]

The Thales unit is a nice box, thought I never had the privelege of using the Honeywell system, other than in a flight training device. Our first few ships came with the Honeywell box before being swapped out, the few at our organization that have flown both are split 50/50 on which unit was superior. It's a wash.

[Tail-take-off]

Thales FMGC2 wins hands down. It does everything that the honeywell does & so much more:

Creates temporary flight plan for every modification with insert/eras options.

Abeam points available with a direct to.

Will calculate the "Equal time point" on any route between any two points. Very handy when en route diversions are few & far between. Accessed via DATA key & 6L. Defaults to Origin & Destination unless modified.

Will allow you to draw radials from any waypoint. Accessed via lateral revision at from waypoint or destination via 5L.

Will allow you to create "Place Distance" waypoints a user defined distance before or after any way point. type ref waypoint name then / followed by +/- nm before or after (eg 30nm before LAM type LAM/-30) & insert in flightplan.

As previously mentioned provides much more comprehensive evaluations of step climb & descents by allowing different winds to be inserted at different levels. Also gives the fuel/time saving or penalty before the change is inserted.

Will give a list of nearest airports with nm & time & very cleverly includes the track miles & time to loose your altitude. Accessed via DATA key & 5L.

I'm sure there are others that I can't remember or don't know about!

[gearpins]

The new BSCU helps to regulate the accumulator pr to 1000 psi such that the pilot can apply full pedal deflection and not worry about bursting a few tyres.:)

[allthatglitters]

New cargo floor panels, ceiling decompression panels, led lights, fully electronic controlled brakes, ozone filters, new pack and controller, new improved cids, different way of attaching the fuselage roof panel stringers, CFM56 highly modified, (spent 3 days in the class room being updated). Some old and some new defects.:)The list goes on.
GAPCU, what frustration.

[sudden Winds]

Thank you guys, this has already helped a lot...but feel free to keep posting. THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!
SW.

[FlightDetent]

Thales FMGC2 wins hands down. It does everything that the honeywell does & so much more:

...

I'm sure there are others that I can't remember or don't know about!

Misunderstanding warning: Our fleet has FMGC 2+ Honeywell Pegasus, it does most of the things you describe.

Old: Honeywell Legacy
New: FMGS 2 Honeywell OR Thales.

[dkz]

The new FMGS II is a great feature however their new "soft alt + thrust" designed for fuel economy and pax confort (i'm talking about 3000+ serial number) can scare the s*** out of you. Selected .78 = .81 and engines still apply power or FD pointing at 10 degrees nose up = autopilot in 15 degrees moving VERY slowly towards the 10 degrees command. :}

On the old FMGS you can select a different cruise alt on the Prog page and it will keep your altitude in turbulence, on the new FMGS you cannot get out of the ALT CRZ and you will be somewhere near your cruising altitude at all times with speed near your cruise speed. :ugh:

However the noise is significantly lower. :D

[Dream Land]

So now they have given the A320, everything that we have always had in the A330 and A340 FMGCYes, everything except sleep deprivation, hours of boredom and few landings :D

[Domi]

What about the CFM56 Tech Insertion ?

It is said that the fuel consumption is reduced by 1%, the reliability is better with a bigger EGT margin. :ok:

But what are the facts in real life ? Is the fuel consumption 'realy' lower than a 'classic' CFM56 :hmm: ?

Nevertheless, I am convinced that the maintenance cost are lower due to a better management of the LLP : the life limit of the first limiter is higher. :D

[Cardinal]

Tech Insertion seems to start a little slower. Not problematic, but just a few seconds longer such that it's (barely) noticeable.

[flying jocks]

There appear to be a few glitches with the brand new A319s

1. After 2nd engine start, both N1s spool up uncommanded about 10% for a few seconds before returning to idle?!?

2. The idle is higher than the older models such that on a hot day, you run the risk of cooking the brakes and hence delaying take-off. Either that or you may have to use the brake fans whilst taxiing.

3. After using the speed brakes whilst slowing down on approach and continuing to use them during flap selections, the a/thrust commands a speed down the approach of Vapp +10 kts. I know that Airbus know about this one and require data files to be sent to them for analysis whenever possible.

In short, nothing really to worry about but still curious as this behaviour goes undocumented