flying into europe - seeking advice

[Vulcan607]

Hi,

I'm due to start my CPL end of Sept and have got 35 hours left to experience before reaching CPL minimum.

Ideally I would like to go to Tempelhof and around the North of France over the period of a week. Experience so far is landaways in northern ireland, england and scotland.
Could anyone with previous experience give pointers of where to start planning for a trip like this and possibly give ideas of where to go based on your experience?

Regards and thanks in advance :ok:

[Pilotdom]

Why not join in with this.....

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=37389

more here...

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=40755

[Tiger_mate]

The last time I did this sort of journey, my route was: Monday>Manston GB - Ostend B (O/night) - Bremen D (O/night) - Paderborn D (Take in Mohne Dam at this time) - Leuven B (O/night) - Amsterdam NL (O/night) - Norwich GB. [Friday RTB]

Not at all influenced by Becks - Paderborner - Stella Artois - Amstel!!

I had intended to go to Paris Le Bourget > Le Touget instead of Amsterdam but the weather was not suitable so an unplanned alternate was executed to Amsterdam which showed how quickly such an action can be done in.

I had the benefit of a corporate budget which may influence adopting my following advice. I did an internet search and established handling agents at all of the airports. I emailed them with requirements reagarding ETA / Fuel / Customs / Onward weather brief & Flt Plan requirements / transport to/from hotel etc etc That is the business that they are in and every stop went to perfection. Timing is of course flexible and the bookings for Paris had no cancellation fees. My timing brief was ATA +1 hour for transport to the hotel, to allow time to put the aeroplane to bed and that timing worked fine.

Manston > Ostend has the advantage of a relatively short sea crossing with the option to turn right for dry land should a drama occur. We had 2 engines, a single may wish to opt for a shorter sea crossing. Survival equipment including LSJ & Dinghy were on board.

I think that by land or air, the prospect of european travel is intimidating. ....and this is all down to the sea crossing, for thereafter, or once the hurdle has been crossed, it is most enjoyable.

PS

Watch out for wind farms; they are everywhere

[IO540]

I had the benefit of a corporate budget which may influence adopting my following advice. I did an internet search and established handling agents at all of the airports. I emailed them with requirements reagarding ETA / Fuel / Customs / Onward weather brief & Flt Plan requirements / transport to/from hotel etc etc That is the business that they are in and every stop went to perfection. Timing is of course flexible and the bookings for Paris had no cancellation fees. My timing brief was ATA +1 hour for transport to the hotel, to allow time to put the aeroplane to bed and that timing worked fine.

This is an interesting procedure which I know someone else employs apparently successfully. Like most GA pilots I have always tried to avoid handling agents and ended up having a lot of hassle as a result, and I suspect in many cases ended up paying mandatory handling anyway so I may as well have taken advantage of the service.

I suppose the downside is that one gets hit with a £100+ bill every place one lands.

[bookworm]

Leuven B

Leuven? Which airfield?

[modelman]

Hopefully not an issue if you have Mode S but I believe it is becoming quite widespread in Europe and may be a consideration.

MM

[robinfly]

Handling agents, #100 fees; seems a foreign concept to me.You need customs entry to schengen, Maybe go to Le Touquet and buy a 'Delage' guide, or just use Abbeville for cheap easy customs.
Delage will show all you need to find French aerodromes, near hotels/resturants etc.
Once you are in Schengen you still need a flight plan to cross borders but there are hundreds of small aerodromes open to you. As for Paris, why go to Bourget or 'deGaule' they don't want you; there are dozens of small aerodromes and low level routes around Paris. St Cyr might suit.
In Holland, Seppe is easy, Belgium eg Wevelgem, all have food and hotels within walking distance.

[LH2]

Hopefully not an issue if you have Mode S but I believe it is becoming quite widespread in Europe

:confused: Never even seen one on a GA aircraft

[IO540]

there are hundreds of small aerodromes open to you

Need to speak the local language though

[BackPacker]

Never even seen one on a GA aircraft

3/4 of my clubs fleet is IFR capable and has mode S fitted since, I guess, six months to a year or so. We have deferred upgrading the VFR-only aircraft for now.

You're welcome to take a look but since a mode S transponder looks virtually identical to a mode C transponder, there's not much to see.

We had one of these safety awareness briefings at the club just this week done by the LVLN (the local variant of NATS). They also invited a few controllers and they've confirmed that technically all the radar systems have been upgraded to mode S. Mode S is already visible in the technical rooms (where the computers are located) and there's still a few minor issues to sort out with regards to training, modification of procedures or something, but by april/may or so, mode S readouts will be visible on the controllers radar screens as well.

One remark they made was that you can modify the flight ID from the panel. So far they've seen the strangest flight IDs, "JESUS" being the example they mentioned. Especially if you fly a rental aircraft, check the ID before take-off. It should be set to your callsign obviously. If not, they can track you by the 24-bit ICAO ID (which you cannot modify) and give you a verbal lashing I guess.

Need to speak the local language though

Not fluently but it helps a lot to have a crib sheet with the most commonly used aeronautical terms, particularly for whatever is said in the circuit. The French for instance, reason that since they're French, flying a French-built aircraft into a French grass strip, have no reason to speak English. Crib sheets for various languages can be found on a number of flying club websites.

En-route and on the larger airports, English is no problem.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Navbox (http://www.navbox.nl/) is a great tool for planning flights around Europe. Even better if you can take it with you on a notebook PC and better yet if you have a portable printer for PLOGs etc.

French charts are available mail order from the SIA (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm) much cheaper than UK sources (free postage!).

Personal recommendations in France:
Cannes - exclusively for GA and good value considering the location. Hotel at the airport for convenience but many others in town.

Troyes - good for an efficient and friendly fuel stop. Very good weather briefing office in the building next to the terminal. Hotel at the airport if you need it and the medieval town is interesting enough for one night. Customs available (sometimes notification required).

Annecy - stunning lakeside / mountainside location.

Deauville - expensive taxi ride into lovely Honfleur or cheaper ride to less lovely (but still pleasant) Deauville or Trouville.

You could also consider Italy. Venice San Nicolo is a grass strip just across the lagoon from St. Marks. Nearby Padova has avgas as Venice often don't.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Have just re-read the original post and you said Northern France but with 35 hours to fly and 7 days you could cover a lot more ground than that, Templehof included.

[stickandrudderman]

Crib sheets for various languages can be found on a number of flying club websites.


Care to post a link to one please?

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

I have used these crib sheets. Credit to the original authors, they are not my own work.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/andyhardyuk/France/fr_circuit.pdf

http://www.atsx91.dsl.pipex.com/Documents/French_RT_Phraseology.doc

[Radar]

Vulcan607,

As tallguyina152 said, if you've got 7 days and 35 hours to play with ..... look further afield than northern France. I don't know what you'll be flying, but two trips I've done in the past three years that came in at around 25 hours were Maastricht - Gdansk-Talinn-Krakow-Budapest-Prague-Maastricht and Maastricht-Freidrichshaven-Dubrovnik-Florence-La Rochelle-Maastricht.

The continent is your oyster, my friend.

[DaveW]

Tall_guy's second link is to my site (thanks!), but the crib sheet isn't mine - I just slightly tidied up something I was given by someone else. I'd love to know who did produce it, so that I can give credit where it's due.

For basic planning, you might find this page (http://www.atsx91.dsl.pipex.com/Going_Foreign.htm) useful, along with "Send Four Faxes and Fly To France (http://www.atsx91.dsl.pipex.com/Documents/Why_Not_Fly_to_France.doc)"