The Nimbies are on the Attack, Jeremy Vine Radio 2

[Windy Militant]

Just Heard the teaser for the Jeremy Vine show (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/) on Radio two. One of the items is a woman who says that there are too many light aircraft using her local airport and it's dangerous and she want's it stopped. Great stuff to have on National radio. :mad:

[Auster Fan]

Branscombe apparently. We can only keep our fingers crossed for a "balanced" argument from Mr Vine. I reserve judgement and further comment until I've heard it.

[Windy Militant]

Well Done David Hayman, he put his side forward in a calm concise manner.
Shame about the rest of the feature a token stab at balance but the continued emphasis on danger and noise has raised awareness of General aviation in entirely the wrong way. Brace yourselves for more complaints. :ugh:

[hobbit1983]

I emailed in pointing out that Old Sarum, Perranporth, Waltham, Panshanger etc have hundreds of movements every month, landing close to or over built up areas. Yet no-one has died on the ground (i.e. not initially in the aircraft) from a light aircraft accident since 1976? (date given on the show).

I feel it's a pity that wasn't expressed on the show, especially given that one caller reckons an aircraft was doing loops at "500ft over his house".....

[magpienja]

Sorry but I don't think mr hayman put much of a case forward, I think the lady came over much better, what a pity,

Thank god the lady PPL from halfpenny green put a good case forward,

We don't do ourselves any favours sometimes.

Nick.

[Brian Abraham]

Can I get the highway moved from the front of my house? Too many big trucks. :E

[A and C]

The lady in question built her house on the extended cenre line of the runway knowing full well that there was an airfield, this she admited ( her family owned the land prior to the airfield starting to operate).

She came out with all the usual NIMBY claptrap about a village hall and school (about a mile away) and the chances of a disaster if an aircraft hit these. None of the rubbish spouted by this lady could be backed up with facts.

In my opinion David Hayman did very well, he defended his position without being to antaganistic. He addressed all the issues in a calm and considered way that would not enflame local opinion. His stance was reasonable and would sway the opinon in favour of the airfield of those who do not have entrenched veiws.

I have to say that this lady is typical of the NIMBY attitude, if she dose get the airfield shut down she will put at lease five people in an engineering company out of work, prehaps as a local land owner she would consider some form of compensation for those who she seeks to put on the dole?

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

This is typical of the kind of pathetic opposition we face as GA owners and pilots. None of the NIMBYs can ever see anything but their own blinkered view of what 'perfect peace' is like in the countryside. It's amazing how many people think they own the sky above their houses.

One high profile NIMBY in Kent (even got his own complaining website) has been whinging about aircraft noise from Headcorn for years, yet lives right next door to the main London to Folkestone railway line! Maybe he realises that the railway will never be restricted or closed and just moves on to the next soft target.

It wouldn't be so bad at Branscombe if there hadnt been a strip there for years anyway, in fact the main lady complainer moved there in 1993 - well after the strip started, but all this nonsense has re-started since Mr Hayman bought the strip from the previous owner. Me thinks it's just an effort to get the strip restricted or closed on a planning technicality.

As I've tried to expain to various complainants who I've dealt with over the years, having a fairly quiet airfield/airstrip on your doorstep actually reduces most overflights by other aircraft who tend to avoid it if marked on the chart.

It's a very British disease complaing about things, and I think whingers like those at Branscombe should be put in the village stocks regularly.

Harsh, but fair!:ok:

[airborne_artist]

RAF Benson gets loads of NIMBY complaints, yet the airfield was built in the 1930s, and is probably much quieter now than it was in the 40s, 50s and 60s. I can't think that there are many home-owners in the area who bought before 1937, and if there are, they are probably a) grateful for the Armed Forces and b) stone deaf.

[Captain Smithy]

I didn't hear the debate, but I would echo the thoughts already expressed here.

Of course it's important for us to be aware of how aviation affects others and to work constructively with communities, however as someone who lives under the flightpath for Edinburgh Airport and works practically next door to the airport, I have never found noise a problem - even without double glazing, noise from machinery, the car, the telly etc. etc. etc. Need I go on.

I think the real problem that should be tackled is not "noise" from aviation, but rather the apparent immaturity of a percentage of the populace, who are so sad and immature that the only thing they can find happiness in is moaning/whinging like 5-year-olds and trying to spoil other people's leisure & enjoyment/hobbies/jobs (delete as applicable). Not just applicable to aviation, but anything and everything else. Grow up.:(

[RollNow!]

I also did not hear this debate but a "balanced" argument from Jeremy Vine is hardly likley. The guy is a menace and consistantly tows the "majority" line regardless of whats been said / facts presented.

Just sits there with his rubbish attempt at having a commanding presence and eventually just goes with what appears to be where most other people are standing. Again i havent heard it but like most things on that show its a lot of people spouting c*ap about things they really dont understand. 'Mothers against light a/c' anyone?

One person (the PPL from HGFC as mentioned above) stands up with the facts, defends their position , however it appears that the people who actually start these "debates" actually STILL dont understand and wont move from their original position anyway rendering the entire show and its host.... pointless... sack him get someone with some nuts. I say Boris Johnson :ok:

[gingernut]

Jeremy Vine listeners mainly consist of the "Middle England" lot, inherited, in the main, from Jimmy Young.

When not listening to Jeremy Vine, they can usually be found wandering the Jet Blast forum.

I wouldn't have thought they'd be too much of a threat to GA, they'll move onto some other burning issue soon, the poor quality of pou pourri nowadays or the birching of yoofs in hoodies or such like.

Funniest thing I heard on his show, was when some old dear called him Jeremy Kyle:) and told him she thought his morning TV show was fantastic.

[funfly]

As I've tried to expain to various complainants who I've dealt with over the years, having a fairly quiet airfield/airstrip on your doorstep actually reduces most overflights by other aircraft who tend to avoid it if marked on the chart.

That's an argument I have not heard before but it is most likely one of the best I've heard as well.

[Brian Abraham]

RAF Benson gets loads of NIMBY complaints, yet the airfield was built in the 1930s, and is probably much quieter now than it was in the 40s, 50s and 60s. I can't think that there are many home-owners in the area who bought before 1937, and if there are, they are probably a) grateful for the Armed Forces and b) stone deaf.

One story has it than an enterprising airport manager overcame noise complaints quite easily. On receiving a complaint he would invite the complainant to the office and on arrival ply them with the obligatory tea, bikkies, cake etc After giving them a hearing and getting all the details "when did you buy into the area?" etc he would then take them over to a massive survey photograph of the airport and surrounding area which was pinned to the wall. The question was then asked "OK, now which house is yours?" Photograph was of course taken many years before when it was just airport surrounded by open farm land and a few market gardens. End of discussion.

[JOE-FBS]

Musing on the NIMBY problem when discussing noise abatement procedures with my instructor yesterday, is another useful argument that a GA airfield, even a busy one, is a better neighbour than 2000 "Executive Homes" or a superstore development which is what would probably happen to where I fly (Halton) if the MoD did not have an airfield there.

[BroomstickPilot]

One argument I put to someone from Friends of the Earth I had an argument with was to point out that every time the NIMBYs close an aerodrome, they increase the movements on the fewer number of aerodromes remaining.

Broomstick.

[wobble2plank]

Come over and hear the great Heathrow debate. Lots of 'Angrys from Hounslow' there.

However, a quick perusal of the land registry site shows that almost 85% of the properties around Heathrow have changed hands in the last 10-15 years. Difficult to miss the small, unobtrusive aviation sight known as Heathrow one would suppose.

GA or OA we will never win. :rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Try this with noise whingers:

"Do you wish to make an official complaint? Before you do, I should perhaps let you know that, if in future years you wish to sell your property, you must reveal to any prospective purchaser that your property is subject to levels of aircraft noise sufficient for you to have made an official complaint. This may perhaps have some effect on the value of your property - and should you fail to reveal such a significant material fact, then you would be committing an offence!"

"Still there? Now bugger off and complain to the rooks about the racket they make on summer evenings!"

[IO540]

Beagle makes a really excellent point - one which is missed by most people making planning objections.

However, a quick perusal of the land registry site shows that almost 85% of the properties around Heathrow have changed hands in the last 10-15 years. Difficult to miss the small, unobtrusive aviation sight known as Heathrow one would suppose.

They buy because property is cheap, hoping to make money by closing the airport.

[Lurking123]

"What would you prefer? A motocross, gypsy camp, haulage yard, battery hen sheds, scrap yard or recycling centre."

[Brian Abraham]

Mate was telling the story of when he was based at a particular military airfield situated in pleasant rural surroundings. The bases role was to train pilots to wings standard using Vampires. One day they found orders on the board that everyone was required to work on a Saturday and maximum push was required, and further, all flying was to be circuit work. Much constination all round, work on a Saturday - unheard of, and why advanced students required to putter around the circuit, albeit solo? Turns out the CO had found out that there was to be a land auction on site, of land abutting the airfield boundry for housing.

[Dan Winterland]

Reminds me of an advert in the late 80sfor a new housing developement in Norfolk. "If's it's quiet and peaceful, it must be Marham". This was Marham village, next to RAF Marham - the home of 30 Tornados and 15 Victors!

The pres picked up on this and headed off to interview some of the owners of the recently sold houses. The first interview they got was from my mate Stu. A Victor captain!

He didn't complain about the noise.